HHHmmm airbus or A-levels?

[petree]

OK so I'm leaving high school in around a month, and basically i want to be a helicopter pilot (as i have done since I can remember). Used the search button and not found much as this is quite an individual question...

I know a airline pilot quite well and he's given me lots of advice and help etc, also he fly's helicopters as a hobby and has taken me up in his once before. I am 100% determined on this and not one of those "if you want it enough you would have done it". Here's the main problem, my birthday is in august and i don't think you can do a ppl course till your 17?? (I'm 15 at the moment):hmm:

I don't want to be waiting around doing nothing for a year before I start training, my choices are either A levels or Airbus craft apprenticeship as a "aircraft wing fitter" which is a three year course and sends me out with aeronautical engineering (would this be helpful?). I would think airbus, or would it be of irrelevance?

Those are my options and I want to do the one which would be more beneficial - or any other thing that could be more helpful? I can't go of to oxford of anything like as I'm that not, I am relatively bright predicted mostly B's and one or two A's.

And just to finish I do have the funds train fully as I have some inheritance by one of my relatives, my eyesight is brilliant and I should think I would be able to pass most medicals..
What should I do?

Thanks,
peter

[preduk]

Personally.. I would say A-Levels...

A-Levels give you a better backup plan than an areo course. What happens if you decide you don't like the Aero industry? You will end up trying to get a job with GSCE (which is almost impossible these days).

Have you thought about going military? You might get a better heli career from it.

[SkyCamMK]

What about train PPL (A) now, solo at 16, licence at 17, A levels at 18, Heli theory followed by heli PPL(H). Keep the costs down, add to knowledge skills and experience as you go - you are in a very privileged position. Maybe some hour building overseas too. Go for it!

[petree]

Thanks for the feedback preduk, I am as sure as I possibly could be that I would not sway or have a change of heart. I have actually flown a helicopter (for a short period) and loved it, also read a few books on the physics and principles of a helicopter. My backup plan WOULD be something like a reporter, or something geography based.

Don't think military would suit me personally, it is an option though if other avenues are not possible. So say I don't need to follow a backup plan, would the airbus course be any more useful to me in the industry. I know it's slightly different building aircraft, as opposed to flying them like i want to so would simple A levels be better?

[preduk]

Petree... It's not just if you love it, what happens if you fail the medical? What happens if for family reasons you can't afford to do it? What happens if the aviation industry collapses?

You need to have a backup plan. Your only 15, another year or two of studying in High School will help you build knowledge in different areas such as Maths, Physics, English etc. I believe your trying to jump into the industry far too quickly without realising what happen if things go wrong.

If you have an interest in Geography and reporting you need to have A-Levels and most likely a degree. You wont get into University without A-Levels and you can't get a good job without a-levels either.

If I were you, I would study my A-Levels, get a part time job, starting funding your PPL(H) and see how you get on. Once you have finished then you can start looking at what options are available for you.

[portsharbourflyer]

If you do A levels and then don't do a degree then the A levels on their own are not particulary useful.


If you have a chance at a technical apprenticeship then it is a great opportunity. Firstly on a technical appreticeship you should still gain the modern day equivalent of a national diploma and a higher national certificate. An NC and or an HNC would still allow you to gain entry to an engineering degree at a later date. Some of the best analyst engineers I worked with started out as fitters.

Also on apprenticeship you should start earning some money (if not much ) which you can start putting towards your PPL(H).

I'm afraid most geography gradautes I knew ended up geography teachers.

Also with airframe manufacture experience I expect you could also move across into airframe maintenance and obtain Licensed maintenance aircraft ratings, these could out you in a good position for networking for that first job.

[Re-Heat]

If you do A levels and then don't do a degree then the A levels on their own are not particulary useful.
Not useful advice.

We need to know if you are an academic or technical person - that should advise what you do, as if you are not technical, then working on aircraft could be quite dull - it is not the same as flying them! And on the other hand, if you are not academic, don't waste time doing A-Levels.

More info required...what are your GCSE predictions?

[Grass strip basher]

Blood hell mate don't blow all you inheritence on this quite yet... you are so young just have a bit of patience and take you time there is no rush.

If I were you I would do your A-levels and work at a local airfield in the holidays to get a better flavour for it all. An additional 2-3 years in school would benefit not hurt!

Patience is a virtue and whilst all teenagers probably lack it to a degree if you really want it your time will come and you don't want to blow a whole load of cash and end up with nothing to show for it.... the flight training industry is full of people who will take your money and promise you the earth in exchange.... be really really careful

[petree]

Thank you for all your help and input, for the moment this is what i have decided.

Take the airbus apprenticeship (provided i get in) and use the money I get paid -around 8k for the first year I think- to start funding my ppl during my first year. This way I would not be risking my funds on a route that could be fruitless like Grass Strip Basher advised against, i would know within the first few lessons if it is the right choice..? and still have a backup with airbus like preduk expressed it was important to have if flying isn't for me.

Thanks for the comment skycamuk I think that is the way that i will start to train but just alongside an apprenticeship rather than before taking a levels.

So does this sound like a realistic and good plan??

Thanks,
Peter

[Whirlygig]

Peter, firstly have a browse of the Rotorheads forum here on Pprune - there is a sticky thread callled ...so you want to be a helicopter pilot; there's a lot of useful information there and I would recommend you do research into job openings as a newly qualified commercial helicopter pilot (i.e. there aren't any!) before you make any decision as to whether to do A Levels or undertake an apprenticeship.

If you want to be a helicopter pilot, I wouldn't recommend flying fixed wing unless you want to; it would be of only a very small advantage compared with a not inconsiderable extra cost that could be better spent elsewhere.

Cheers

Whirls

[cats_five]

At a tangent, you can go solo in a glider at 16 in the UK, and time in gliders will help with a PPL. So, it might be something useful to do now - since you are 15 and will be 16 in August, you could be ready to solo on your 16th birthday. It depends how much of a natural you are and how much effort you put in, but at my incredibly advanced (to you!) age I managed complete beginner to solo in a similar period of time and plenty of other equally untalented folks have. I also was using an inheritance to fund my flying (in fact I still am)...

As to A-levels vs craft apprenticeship, a lot depends on what you yourself can do. I'd agree that A-levels on their own aren't that useful for getting a job, so would you want to do a relevent degree? A good degree from a good institute should always be helpful for getting a job, even sometimes in fairly unrelated areas. I'd also say that the University experience is not to be missed - it's a very sudden severing of the apron strings if you move away from home.

[petree]

Thank you Whirlygig and cats_five some very helpful information there!!

Whirlygig I have been reading a lot of threads on here over the past couple of weeks and just been reading for an hour or so some of the content in the sticky you mentioned. Personally for me I think I would not mind progressing slowly in the industry to find a decent job, or in other words i don't mind being a instructor for a while or taking a low wage job to begin with as I'm not really going into it for the money. Thank you so much for pointing out that ppl will not be necessary as anything that helps save money is a good thing so i will strike it from my plans.
cats_five I have now effectively decided to scratch getting my ppl first now but you have raised a point, would I be able to do some part of my pplh training at 16 excluding the solo part? Does this mean it is possible to start training at 16 but not complete my pplh at 16?

Thanks,
Peter:)

[Whirlygig]

Depending on how often you plan on flying to gain your PPL(H), you can start now if you want but you cannot fly solo until you are 16 and you cannot have your licence issued until you are 17.

Whilst it is reasonably common for PPL(A) students to complete their licence in the minimum hours of 45, it is less common for PPL(H) students so budget for 50 plus hours. If you get it in less that's a bonus. In addition, it is less likely that you will fly solo early on in your course; maybe after 10-30 hours depending on your aptitude and that attitude of your instructor. Flying an hour ot two a week should give you some sort of timescale. I am assuming that you are thinking of a modular course rather than integrated.

Go and visit a couple of local helicopter schools and have a chat. Look at the operation and how helpful and professional they are. There is also the matter of a few little exams for PPL; you might want to start studying for those straight away (Books - Trevor Thom or Jeremy Pratt). Most schools will require that you have passed Air Law before first solo.

It's hard to advise about A Levels or apprenticeship but, if the apprenticeship will give you a job at the end (if you pass) and a vocational qualification recognised in the industry, that might be your better bet.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Whirls

[preduk]

How much are Heli lessons these days? I would have loved to do them, but I remember them being extremely expensive!

[Whirlygig]

About £250-£300 an hour depending on type.

Cheers

Whirls

[petree]

Whirlygig it's funny you should say that I have already started reading up on helicopters! It's a book called "The helicopter pilots manual" - principles of flight and helicopter handling by Norman Bailey, has anybody else read this and does anybody know if it's good compared to others? I know it's not much but it's a start and has got me learning and understanding all the basic concepts such as the coning effect and stuff like that which is helping me get my head around the physics. I don't think i mentioned I also flew the helicopter models for a number of years which has helped me understand the physics such as the ground effect as I've encountered it with the models.

This sounds like a real possibility though as between end of my exams and September (roughly 2-3 months) i will have nothing to do and could possible study and nobble my exams before I even start helicopter lessons.?? What is the minimum age for taking these tests and who do i contact regarding sitting them?

£250 x 50 (hours) = £12,500
Thank you now I can have an up-to-date realistic cost for the first section of my training, I read it's worth getting a class 1 medical first and that with travel costs around £500 + another 500 for general tests, transport etc/ I'm looking around 13,500 for my pplh modular?

Thanks for the input whirlygig it is really helping me and sorry for all the noob questions I'm pretty much there now with a clear understanding of what action i need to take. Will go and visit all the local flying schools asap after my exams!

Thanks,
Peter

[Whirlygig]

I doubt there's a helicopter book I haven't got and read so .... hhmmmm... Norman Bailey .... I found them very dry and, to be honest, a tad advanced for PPL level.

For general reading, I recommend Randall Padfield, Learning to Fly Helicopters. I read it even before I started flying. It's readable and informative. For principles of Flight, you'll want Wagtendonk's book. Other PPL stuff is the same a fixed wing so either go for the Trevor Thom series or Jeremy Pratt.

Later on, you may want to invest in Cyclic and Collective by Shawn Coyle (he's a regular poster on Rotorheads) and anything by Phil Croucher.

You can do the exams any time and there's no age restriction but you must complete your PPL within 18 months of passing the first exam so be careful with your timing - you must set out a rough plan of timescales. You will also need to have passed all the theory exams before your skills test. There is also the Radio licence exam and practical test.

I would also recommend you learn to love LASORS - goo-goo it and download the latest. This will explain all the legalese you need. It's dull and sometimes hard to interpret but you might as well get to know where the stuff is if you're going commercial!!!

As for medical ... I would advise going for the Class 1 straight away. If there is any reason you that you fail, you may still get a Class 2 for private flying but you need to know before you invest too much and money. Once you have the initial class 1, you can let it lapse into a Class 2 and only renew it when you're ready for the commercial flying (I believe the limit is five years).

Your budget is a little optimistic!! You need to get an hourly rate quote from a couple of schools and make sure they give you the VAT inclusive rate and also the landing fee charge (usually per hour for helicopters). The skills test and licence fees are astronomical and may be more than £500 together. Also, some schools charge for each PPL written exam (others don't). Allow for equipment (Transair, Flightstore, Pooleys online); kneeboard, charts, flight navigator (get a CRP-5 now if you want commercial). All these little costs mount up so be careful.

No worries about asking!

Cheers

Whirls

[petree]

Thanks for the info all my questions have now been answered and I have been given lots of useful advice i will follow (especially which books are worth reading). I've found the forum very helpful so far and will definitely report back once I've got something worth reporting such as a pplh qualification. For now I'll favourite this and keep browsing and hopefully you wont mind Whirlygig if I pm you any other quick questions I have along the way.

Thanks:ok:

[Whirlygig]

No worries if you want to PM me! If you have specific helicopter queries, Rotorheads is probably a good place to ask them! No disrespect to the guys on Prof Training but it is fixed wing oriented mainly and that's a different world with respect to training and careers.

Cheers

Whirls