Old regional piston/turbine routes

[aviation_enthus]

Remember these?
Currently working in Katherine and looking through alot of old paperwork from earlier Airnorth days when they operated C402's out of Tindal on RPT. I'd imagine there would be heaps of routes similar to these that are no longer operating but is there any Ppruners that used to fly piston RPT on similar thin(ish) routes in the last 10-20 years?
Anyone else who was in charge when they were stopped? Just wondering what sort of issues came up to make them unviable. A/C cost, CASA regs issues, pax numbers?

[RENURPP]

Competition pretty much killed most of Air Norths routes back then.

[GANKER]

I was a chieftain king for many a year on Rpt routes!
fact of the matter is the planes got old and just wernt fast enough.
The ticket prices to high. Only a matter of time.
back then 3500 hrs not enough time to get a turbine job, let alone a jet job! How things have changed.
Silly thing is been flying big jets for a decae now and as alot of people say wish i was back flying piston RPT, but there is the money thing, kids BLAAA BLAA BLAA you know the story!

[Stationair8]

aviation_enthus,
Go to Katherine Library or Historical rooms and look for a book on Conellan Airways and have a look at their route network in the 1960 and 70's throughout the NT, Western QLD and North West WA using everything from Cessna 180's, Beechcraft B18's, Beechcraft Twin Bonanza's, Beechcraft Queenair's, de Havilland Heron's, DC-3's and later Fokker Friendships.

Lots of other operators in that part of the world had some interesting route networks carrying passengers, freight, mail etc.

Operators such as

Ord Air,

John Beers Aviation at once stage had an RPT run from Perth to North West WA in a Baron,

Arnhem Air,

AirNorth had extensive RPT throughout the NT operating Cessna C310/ 402/404 /441 from the mid 80's.

Civil Flying Services at one stage had an RPT route Perth to Alice Springs in a Metro,

Hazelton likewise had very extensive RPT network using C310 and PA-31/350 through NSW.

The old thing money, punters and a hundred and one other things to keep it all running and profitable. When things are going good in the bush people travel, but when things are quiet and people don't travel services are lost.
Both TAA and Ansett extensive operations through regional areas such as QLD, WA, SA and NSW. TAA operated Queenairs and F27's on regional routes in QLD, Ansett operated Piaggio P166's between Alice Springs and Ayers Rock, on SA routes and also on QLD routes.

[aviation_enthus]

thanks for the replies
Stationair8 I was in the library a while back looking around and found a book on MMA (I think) written by an ex-Captain of theirs. WA based airline they included the centre run (NT) on their route map as well, from memory they came under the Ansett route system. I think the Hardy's DC-3 is an ex MMA a/c.

Amazing how things change though....

RENURPP better road access would have provided a lot of competion as well I assume?

[Stationair8]

That would be I Flew for MMA, a very good read and again how the route network evolves and changes.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

G'day 'Stationair'.....
Just a small correction,

That operator was JAN BEERS, of Jan Beers Aviation.
At one time had about 5 Be-58 Barons, then got down to just one.
Perth based, but with ops wherever he found an opportunity.

If the 'Hardys' DC3 is regd MMA, then I do believe it was re-reg'd under that name to celebrate its history as being VH-MMA the former flagship of MMA.
It wound up in PNG, then was imported back by Maslings as MWQ way back in the early '70's or thereabouts. Later to be renamed to its former callsign.

As far as the 'changing times' went, in 1970, I used to do an RPT ex PD on a local 'station' run which used to be covered by MMA Doves and two pilots.
Moi was in a C206, or even a 182 sometimes, and the biggest workload of the flight was the RPT manifests / mail /freight paperwork which was supposed to be done 'as you went'...
Dems were the days....:ok::ok:

[Stationair8]

Thanks for that.

Didn't Jan Beers Aviation hold a record for the longest piston engine RPT, must have been pretty impressive utilisation for a B58.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

'Ello Again Mr 'S',

Jan had the RPT run DB - FTZ - HLC for a while, around '83 - '85 or so.

I seem to remember that he was successful in adding the HLC - PH run to effect crew / aircraft changes /maint etc and to effect a 'direct-link mail service', or something like that.

Not a 'bad' run though....:ok::ok:

[chimbu warrior]

Used to do RPT in a Seneca.

No, not a Seneca III, nor a Seneca II, a Seneca. The operator had moved up from a Cherokee 6, and everybody thought the "twin" was state-of-the-art. :ok:

[DUXNUTZ]

Good to see they've cleared out the stock room at the old AN building in Katherine! Read through the same stuff 4 years ago...

Is the building painted yet? Would love if you could post a photo of the building and/or aircraft current day.

[Kanga767]

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg225/Kanga767/Tindal.jpg

TFD/UCE/UCL C402C. TFP C310R...

Gorge scenics in UMR...

BBQs on the grass between the shed and the office...

*sigh*

K

[Peter Fanelli]

Used to do RPT in a Seneca.


I thought the Seneca didn't have sufficient engine out performance to be used for RPT.

[greybeard]

In the "bad old days" MMA had a fortnightly run

Perth-Morowa-Yalgoo-Magnet-Cue-Meeka-Wiluna-Sandstone-Magnet-Yalgoo-Morawa-Perth.

Allowed the populations to read and reply to mail in the double dippers, bearing in mind no sealed roads to any of those places at that time

3 Pilots, leave number 2 running at most places, bloddy good fun.

Yes I am that "old"

growng old is a fact, growing up is optional.

:ok::ok:

[fierylildevil]

Aero Tropics I think would have to be up there...
5 days a week. 80 stations.
Wednesday and Thursday runs are approx about 18 stops each and about 300-400 kgs each day. ALL RTP too.
Doing it all in an Aero Commander.

I use to run the mail run - absolute headache ....:mad:

[Fantome]

She's still a goer for Air North, VH-MMA. Back to bare polished metal as when
Mickey Mouse Airlines kept a team of polisher apprentices in their Guildford hangars with results so gleaming you could take a shave .

http://www.aussieairliners.org/dc-3/vh-mma/vhmma.html

aviation_enthus please check PMs.

[Ski Guru]

There are still piston RPT runs all over NSW including in and out of Sydney.


Powder to the people.

[40Deg STH]

Just a little trivia.........

Aeropelican was the first company down south to go from the trusted 402 to the very trusted twin Otter.......

I enjoyed working at the "Duck" and living on the lake. FS always said they could set their clocks to our times as we were always spot on time.:ok:

[Tmbstory]

40 deg STH

I had the privilege of flying the first commuter run at Aeropelican in a Cessna 402 VH- MWE on June the 2nd 1971. The sector was APL/ SY/ APL and it was the start of a very successful commuter service. For performance reasons we limited the pax load to 7, the 402 did a great job and deserves its role in the Australian RPT system.

[Tmbstory]

Peter Fanelli:

The system in place at that time was that most of the aircraft used on the commuter runs were the old Part 23 certification and not Part 25.

It kept you alert.

[Tmbstory]

SKI GURU:

For information,the very first commuter run on the East Coast of NSW departed Williamtown (Newcastle) on the 11th September 1967,in Cessna 402 VH-MWD via Sydney, Cootamundra, Temora, Cootamundra, Sydney and back to Williamtown.

As time went on, in addition to the Cessna 402, a Beechcraft A65 VH-MWH and an A70 VH-MWI were used in the system.

Tmb

[bushy]

Connair used to do five day mail runs in Herons, and Beech 18's. They went from Alice Springs through WA, NT, QLD, and home on the fifth day.

[puff]

Oxley/Impulse along the NSW coast - BNE-Coolangatta-Lismore-Coffs-Port-Taree-Williamtown-Sydney, PA31s, B99s, B1900s. Brisbane-Armidale-Tamworth.

Sabair/Eastland - Brisbane-Toowoomba - PA31s, Twin Otter. Sabair used to use 2 a/c, SHT and PUK for a while, won't give away any prices for what their nicknames were. Anyone know whatever happened to Gordon Patterson?

The 'duck' was a fine operation and it was sad to see it leave Belmont, always a very professional operation and for an organisation with 1 type and little variety didn't have a huge amount of progession....and they say people don't stay in a job for lifestyle!

[Stationair8]

Australian Aviation Regional airline Directory 1984

Aeropelican Air Services,
Air North,
Air Queensland,
Air Transit,
Air Whitsunday,
Airlines of Tasmania,
Albatross,
Aquatic Airways,
Arnhem air charter,
Augusta airways,
Avdev airlines,
Avior airlines,
Chartair,
Commodore Air,
Corpair,
Drennan Aviation,
East Coast airlines,
Easter airways,
Emu Airways,
Eyre Charter,
Fortesque Air Charter,
Goldfields airservices,
Hazelton,
Helitrans,
Heneberry Aviation,
Jan Beers Aviation,
Kenell
MacKnight Airlines,
MAF,
Murray Valley Airlines,
Navair airlines,
Noosa Air,
Norfolk island airlines,
O'Connors Airservices,
Opal air,
Ord air Charter,
Outback Air,
Oxley Airlines,
Paggis Aviation,
Phillip Island Air Charter,
Q.O.T.S air Charter,
Rossair,

[Richo]

Interesting list S8,

no Tilair in 84 is a bit of a surprise.

The old mails runs were all RPT, until someone actualy tried to enforce the rules. In steps DOTARS and now they are special RPT.
Funny but I have actualy flown more RPT in single engine cessna types, than I have in Regional turboprops.

Air north/Chartair S51 to S55 and Ord air S56 and S58 all single engine mail runs. Even a few centre runs in the An 402's TZH, CAJ and TF?.

[Green gorilla]

Flew 310s on rpt for pelair early 90s to Telfer how things have changed.:D

[QSK?]

Aviation enthus:

You might want to do an internet search on "airline timetables" and then look up the airlines mentioned here. There are many collectors of old airline timetables who publish the details on internet.

[Stationair8]

Part 2, don't you like when somebody pinches your magazine when you called from the computer.

Rundle Air Services,
Sabair,
Singleton Air Services,
Skytours,
Skywest Airlines,
Sunbird Airlines,
Sunstate Airlines,
Thorpes Transport,
Tillair,
Trans Regional Airlines,
Waratah Air Services,
Western NSW Airlines.


Types of aircraft in service;
Single Engine 16
Beech Duchess 1
Beech Baron 6
Beech Queen Air 65 2
Beech Queen Air 80 4
BN2 Islander 4
Cessna 303 1
Cessna 310 28
Cessna 337 2
Cessna 402A/B 13
Cessna C402C 16
Cessna C404 10
Cessna C421 7
DH Heron 4
DC3 6
Grumman Mallard 2
Partenavia 15
Piper Aztec 7
Piper PA30/39 2
Piper PA31/310 6
Piper PA31/350 23
Piper PA34 2
Aerostar 2
Aerocommander 2
BAE Jetstream 31 3
Twin Otter 13
Kingair 200 8
Cessna C441 3
Fokker F27 3
Nomad 2
Bandeirante 8
Merlin III 1
MetroII 9
Shorts S330 1
Shorts S360 3

Air Queensland carried 193,907 passengers for the year and Queensland Outback Tourist Service carried 138 passengers in a PA-32 on the Winton to Longreach route.

Kendell Airlines had just ordered the first Saab 340 and planned to carry 88,000 passengers for the year. Still flying into Warnambool and Hamiliton in 1984.

A lot of changes in the RPT industry since 1984.