Thomsonfly

[Errol Sinclair]

Hello,

Has anyone heard anything about future thomsonfly recruitment? Any announcements pending? Been in the holding pool almost a year now! :bored:

Thanks in advance

[holyflurkingschmitt]

I'd heard the holding pool was no more.

No recruitment until 09

HFS:rolleyes:

[underread east]

If you've been through the recruitment process with them, after such a wait you deserve to be given a few moments of their time. Why not just call them and get the real answer direct?

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Calling won't do any harm, but it's a fine line between being interested and being a pain!

As we're still in the process of merging with FCA, crew numbers seem to be 'unknown'. i.e there has been talk of redundancies, unpaid leave and part-time working. At present nothing appears to have been finalised.

To give an idea of current workload, many FOs at some of the smaller bases have had only a handful of flights rostered each month since before Christmas (or even no rostered flights in some months!). We'll probably be 'about-right-to-overcrewed' for the summer.

IMHO the wildcards are the arrival of the 787, which will take alot of crews out of the system if/when it turmns up; senior FOs leaving for commands elsewhere now that it is 5+years to a command (8-10 for a new join?); re-retirement of the over 60s who may have had enough. Management talk of a 'resignation bulge' that may sort out the numbers.

[rjay259]

Hey all,

I do agree with AVCP, but I also think that we should not give up hope just yet. There have been IMO too many rumours and quick to react choices that have been made by a lot of people.

I had seen that the unpaid leave was cancelled as the Management suddenly realised that the numbers would be about right for the fleet size.

With the rate of people leaving or finding new pastures and retiring that there would be more positions coming up than we realise. Dont get to excited tho as it may not be for some time.

Keep trying and just see if you can get an update as to what may be happening, that would do you more good than saying "what is going on".

Good luck

259

[Errol Sinclair]

Thanks everyone!

Have sent them a few emails over the past. They have replied to all but the last one. I just don't want to be a nuisance!

cheers
Errol

[A Very Civil Pilot]

I had seen that the unpaid leave was cancelled as the Management suddenly realised that the numbers would be about right for the fleet size.

I heard about 1/3 of the pre-merger pilots applied!

[Spikedog]

Sorry for my ignorance, but why should anyone in the pool forget about it and move on? It sounds like DN has stated that when the company starts recruiting again then they will start taking people from the pool - and why wouldn't they? The hold pool consists of people who have passed their very thorough selection process and therefore people who they deem to be suitable to join the company.

I think it's quite simple - Tfly have not recruited for about a year now, so nobody from the pool has been taken. When they do start recruiting again then they will start taking people from the pool. One of the main reasons they haven't been recruiting for a while is because they have gone through a huge merger.

[Fiske]

Quite right, I agree with the above post.

By all means look for another job in the meantime, but don't give up hope persevere!

[Airbus Girl]

Sorry guys but I agree with the earlier post-ers. The new TUI Fly are gonna be overcrewed on the Boeing, its only the Airbus fleet that has lean crew, and only because the Airbuses are (almost definitely) going so they don't wanna pay for type conversions. The low-cost part of Thomsonfly, well, I think its days are probably numbered. In which case there will be a huge surplus of qualified, type rated pilots for Thomsonfly to choose from, and the rest may well be made redundant.

The unpaid leave last winter was cancelled due to the constraints of merging the two operators by the 1st May 2008. There were a lot of training courses and so on required by the CAA and these had to be completed in the "quiet" winter period. It was for that reason that unpaid leave was not offered - although to be honest it could have been offered, as the rosters have been very quiet. It was really just for logistics - if people are on leave they cannot do their courses, if they cannot do their courses then the CAA won't give the new paperwork for the new company AOC.

[Penworth]

The low-cost part of Thomsonfly, well, I think its days are probably numbered. In which case there will be a huge surplus of qualified, type rated pilots for Thomsonfly to choose from, and the rest may well be made redundant.


Just to clarify on this, Thomsonfly is a single entity, there isn't a low cost airline within the airline anymore. For sure, some of the flights are scheduled low cost, whereas some are charter, but the pilots are a single group with common t's and c's. There's talk that with the reducing/closing of the low cost flights, the additional capacity will be partly used to increase the frequency of some charter routes. Overall there will be a reduction in the fleet over the next few years though.

The point I'm trying to make though is that should the low cost flights cease altogether, and management decide to reduce pilot numbers, its going to affect everyone employed by Tui Travel (from 1st of May) and not just the "low cost" pilots, as such a group do not exist.

Sorry for the thread creep. Regarding recruitment, I can't see any for the next year at least, but after summer 09, who knows.

[bylgw]

I hope you have a lot of endurance for treading water in the holding pool.

Apparently we have the correct number of pilots this year, we're waiting to hear about next year.

If you're waiting for your first job and you get offered something else, take it.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo]

Since there has been no decision about fleet numbers yet, nobody here actually knows how many pilots are needed.

Email them or call them, it won't do you any harm but I expect the answer will be "We don't know at the moment"

[hec7or]

[QUOTE][If you're waiting for your first job and you get offered something else, take it./QUOTE]

exactly what they told me in 1991 and it was a full five years before any jobs were available!!

[Bluebaron]

all 762 are now gone, rumour running that redundancies will be annouced soon. only rumours though.

[middlepath]

rumour says Thomson downsizing plan + dreamliner delay = -200 pilots. bad news for those @ the bottom of seniority.

[wobblyprop]

who said they would come from the bottom of the list.

[SpiralDive]

MOA (Article 18)

[SKYWRITER1]

So nobody will take voluntary redundancy then? There was me thinking the company had said pilot numbers were about right for this summer. I'd love to know where these rumours come from, galley fm perhaps???????

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Unfortunately Thomsonfly is no longer the 'career' airline that might have been the case with Britannia. Quite a few experienced, but low seniority FOs are leaving. My base has 2 Capts and 2 FOs on notice to leave.

If someone else can offer either a DEC or quick command then people may well take it. Recent moves have been to Emirates, Ryanair, GSM[?] and Corporate.

[middlepath]

honiley,

you are absolutely right, anouncement for 09 from management would clear the rumour, when you say FCA is superior meaning in T&C ?

[Fredairstair]

AVCP,

Has someone really left Tfly to join FR? Is that a first?

Hope he was senior to me.....;)

Fred

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Both in bottom half of seniority. With FR opening the BHX base, then Tfly crews at BHX & CVT have an realistic option to look at them.

[Dogma]

Consider joining FR :} !!!!

Having worked for T-Fly changing horses from TOM to FR would be like going from a Rolls employer to a Lada :p

AVCP - What a joker!

The future is bright for anyone on the "bottom half", if any downsizing were to take place (unlikely) - the top 5th would go.

[A Very Civil Pilot]

AVCP - What a joker!

Dogma

I am not a joker, merely reporting on the fact that some Tfly pilots are on notice to leave to go to Ryanair. I am not one of them.

Currently working for Tfly, I know this to be true.

Might I refer you to your own quote from the pprune company forum:

- one would have to be extremely retarded to imagine that all Tfly Pilots were in favor of this deal, FCA guys and girls have seriously pissed on many TFly aspirations.

Many are voting with their feet and leaving the business. It always pays to keep an eye on your 6 O'Clock.

[BlueTui]

762's are now staying- not sure if its one or both but cabin crew halfway through triannials last week were interupted and told they were sitting the 767-200 exam as it was staying in the fleet..

[SKYWRITER1]

We've obviously got too many a/c and too many crews, no hold on, were now keeping the 762's. maybe its related to 787 delays? who knows? To be honest thats one of the problems................nobody knows! (or those that do are saying very little) I must admit, its getting a bit annoying not knowing anything, and just hearing rumours/theories. Still, thats aviation I suppose

[Dogma]

AVCP - quoted out of context!

They may be leaving the company but going to FR is beyond the pale. Copy anything else from the company forum and I'll cut your throat when next we meet.:oh:

[World of Tweed]

BlueTui - Where is you info regards to the 762's from??

I've just come back from Dublin on a social visit and saw -AA parked at TEAM Aerlingus about to go in for its refit!

Are you sure the Cabin Crew requirement for requalification isn't more to do with requirements for the AOC as the aircraft probably still appear on the fleet list.

[Spikedog]

[QUOTE]Unfortunately Thomsonfly is no longer the 'career' airline that might have been the case with Britannia. Quite a few experienced, but low seniority FOs are leaving. My base has 2 Capts and 2 FOs on notice to leave.

If someone else can offer either a DEC or quick command then people may well take it. Recent moves have been to Emirates, Ryanair, GSM[?] and Corporate./QUOTE]

Depends really how you qualify a "career airline". I would say that an airline with decent salary, annual increments, very good pension contributions (15%), good sector pay, LOL insurance, private health insurance, etc, etc. is a pretty good career airline. There is also great opportunity to fly a variety of aircraft, following a structured career path. Certainly compared to a lot of companies nowadays that don't offer a lot of these benefits, TUIFly is a career airline in my opinion.

People seem to think more in the short term and are so desperate for a Command that they are prepared to leave an excellent company like TUIFly for smaller low cost operators like Ryanair and Jet2. Has it not always taken a while to work your way up the seniority list in a "career" airline to gain your Command? Is it really worth jumping ship to get your quick Command with someone like Ryanair, GSM or Jet2? You'll get a higher basic salary for a few years, but that's about it. Your pension will probably be halved and many other benefits probably don't exist.

I currently work for a LOCO and I know where I'd prefer to spend the next 30 years of my career, so I'll keep swimming in the hold pool for a while longer.

[DooblerChina]

TFLY is a career airline, and a bloody good one at that.

End of post.

[World of Tweed]

Guys,

I don't think anyone is disputing the "career Airline-ness" of TFly/FCA combined... per se...as under comparison to the afformentioned LCCs and even other Charter/leisure carriers we are well benchmarked and have some terrific protections.

What I believe some are referring to is the change in the animal that can be seen from the inside.

Change has already created huge consequences in lifestyle and (yet to be seen) salary for a number of pilots within the company due to forced moves onto the 737 - an aircraft type that is just the wrong type for the future mid-haul centric focus of the company.

The forced type change - driven out of hang over from a crazy nee suicidal plan to aim to compete directly with the Easy/FR/J2s - is a huge issue to those it affected and before anyone asks it was done out of seniority order!

My Big concern is the lack of a robust system to bid onto the other fleet(s). In Tfly right now if you start on the 737 or are forced to 737 expect not to return to the 'other' fleet for years if at all - and ignore the mixed fleet stuff - it won't happen for most.

Tfly-Junior (the orginal version out of Cov) had loads of 73 FOs wanting to transfer across to the 757. How many (ordinary line pilots) have made it in 4 years of operation???? NONE. And yet until last year we still recruited directly onto the 757 with the 737 guys chomping at the bit - From a Career point of view down that is not good!

Not just in fleet transfer do we lack robust systems. Monthly bidding is at best confusing and at worst totally incomprehensible.

This is where the appeal of other careers blossom. Depending on your own aspirations of course but in summary to ask a question:

"If you are to suddenly to find out that your 10+ yrs to command will now be taking place on the shorthaul only fleet and not the mix of Long/short haul you thought. Would it not be prudent to assess whether one would prefer to invest those 10yrs in an airline where seniorty would have seen you choose the type you fly and pretty much your roster after 5yrs?"

That is the question alot of guys at LGW have been asking - BA round the corner et al. This explains the resignation bulge increasing toward BA at the southern bases - I must add that LGW has seen the most forced 737 transfers. See a pattern yet?? But for us here in MAN its a different story we don't have the luxury of Big Airways around the corner but so far few of us have been forced to consider a move as we are still a 75/76 heavy base.

I don't want to be misunderstood - right now, for me, this is the best job in the world - right now. I love the people I work with, my base and the roster I fly. Tfly is a great company in terms of people, training and salary no matter what the old farts on here say.

It has its faults some big, some small and we have been foolish with strategy of late. However we have new keepers who seem to be committed to building a great company.

I am concerned however that we've just bought 45 aircraft that are incapable of flying the routes we wish to milk!! - but thats way above my pay grade! I suspect the aforementioned new keepers will sort that out!! :)


Yours always opinionated,

WoT

[middlepath]

:OWOT

well said

[hec7or]

If the pilots at the bottom of the seniority list are laid off, who will fly the 737s?

[wobblyprop]

767-200s staying for the summer as per OPS Notice 113-08.

Does that mean silver jet didn't want them after all or we need as many 767s as we can get till the fischer price jet flies

[middlepath]

Hec7or

I think its quite simple, the seniors may have to downgrade to whatever is available, smaller fleet, lower rank ect ect

[Donkey Duke]

I saw today in Salzburg a few Thomsonfly 733s going to MAN, LGW, and Coventry, and a 752 going to LGW also. Does anyone know the rosters for the typical 733 pilot at any of those bases, and what about the 757? Are many people leaving Thomson for Easy or Ryanair? How long will your 733s be around? Cheers.

[SKYWRITER1]

Bad news for the guys in the holding pool. 10 aircraft reduction for next year confirmed, with redundancies planned. They are looking for voluntary first. I know in other companies these have ended up over subscribed, and they have then had to recruit, but it means there will be no jobs this year I'm afraid. (except 4 ctc cadets for summer only)

Sorry guys and girls :uhoh:

[Northern Johnnie]

As I understand it, Silverjet have neglected to pay for AA & AB. I'm not sure if that is just a delay in procedings or if they are in trouble. Either way, they stay at Thomsonfly for now.

[Strong, silent type]

Looks like just another blunder in the litany that Tfly have produced over the past few years. Career airline my a$$. The only thing certain in Tfly these days is that you'd be better off carrying Vaseline with you. You're gonna need it. They couldn't find their arse with both hands in their back pockets.

[out_sider]

The only thing certain in Tfly these days is that you'd be better off carrying Vaseline with you.

Not to be facicious, but I'm not sure you can get vaseline though security any more. I believe BALPA are petitioning the airlines to uses smaller poles when shafting us in the future, although we'll believe it when we see it. :ok:

[frontlefthamster]

Yes, smaller diameter, but greater length, one suspects.

There are NO career airlines anymore, I'm sorry to say. Prostitution is prostitution, whether you get screwed on the silk sheets at the Ritz or in the back of a Micra in a quiet corner of an industrial estate in Aberdeen.

It would be nice to start some sort of revolution, but there are too many wannabees who can't see the wood for the trees and will bend over forwards to fly a Cessna 152 half-price, and by the time anyone had achieved anything, there would be no oil left to fly on anyhow - or at least none available to us in the west.

That's my (very upbeat) assessment, anyhow...

[middlepath]

Rumour becoming reality, -10 aircraft in 2009 means -140 pilots. Too bad, I am sad, declining UK economy and increasing fuel price is adding fuel on fire. May have to revert back to old time sailboat to cross Atlantic. I am sure we will ride through this rough rides:ok: keep on pressing.

[Strong, silent type]

I'm not sure about that Vaseline comment, it might very well be the case that you can't get it through security any more. I'll ask one of the stewards. None the less, a tip from the top, if you're in it for the long haul (not LH flying!) then stay where you are in Tfly. If you got the fire axe shoved up your ass sideways, like me, then do yourself a favour. I never saw the pole they used on me, it came out of no where, so yeah, I'm pissed; I like to get kissed before I get fu*ked and Tfly skipped the foreplay. I'm moving on. Who's coming with me?

[Brian Fantana]

"10 aircraft in 2009 means -140 pilots."
That seems a hell of a lot of pilots. What crew:aircraft ratio have they been using.

[757_Driver]

well gosh thats a toughy

140 pilots / 2 = 70 crews
70 crews / 10 aircraft = 7 crews per aircraft.

Hardly complex calculus.

7 crews / aircraft seems about par for the course.

[kick the tires]

thats a big crewing ratio.

easy use 5.5

[ajd1]

Easy don't do long-haul.

[RMC]

GSM use a much better ratio... we have 8 : 1 (that is eight aircraft to one crew).:)

[0-8]

Which fleet are the 10 aircraft being chopped from?

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Airbus, 737 classic and 757.

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Redundancies, sorry - voluntary severence scheme, announced today.

[Fly Better!]

The letter I got said that there were quite a few shown an interest in volunteering to go.

Does anyone have any idea how many people have shown an interest? Im near the bottom of the pile and if they dont get nearly all volunteers then I guess I will be getting the bad news.

[757_Driver]

I don't work at Tfly so this is speculation, however In a previous life I worked at a large (non airline) company that had a number of volantary redundancy / early retirement packages and they were always very oversubscribed by the guys nearing retirement with many years in the pension pot - I suspect this will be the case here!

Also I am reasonably well informed that redundancies can no longer be based on 'last in first out', 'seniority' etc etc. as this would infringe the current employment legislation. I'm no lawyer but that was the view of the last 2 companies I worked for when they came to make redundancies.

[A Very Civil Pilot]

757 driver

As yet there has been no case of anyone citing age discrimination in relation to losing a job through redundancy. Until then the method that is most likely to comply with the regulations is last in first out.

[middlepath]

what is tradtional redundant package? Understand Tfly is quite generous, input from insiders appreciated.

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Martinair Holland

Not really covered by UK employment law then!!

[Pilot Pete]

Understand Tfly is quite generous They are a business, not a charity. Generosity in business is relative to your position and perspective. Some will see an offer as generous, when others will view the same package as falling well short of their expectations. The company (TUI Travel Plc) are pitching their Voluntary Severance Package at a level they believe will get enough volunteers to fill the positions to be lost. They will not pay more than they think they will have too, but need to offer enough to make it attract enough volunteers. They will NOT want to go down the compulsory redundancy route as it could end up being a very costly exercise fought out by company and Balpa legal representatives.

PP