Reservist marine may be nominated for VC

[airborne_artist]

Expect that this will get moved over to JB, as there's no mil aviation component, but some may not have seen this:

"A Royal Marine could receive the highest award for gallantry after he saved the lives of his comrades by throwing himself onto an exploding grenade in Afghanistan, it has been reported."

Full article in the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/30/nhero130.xml)

As far as I know the RM's last VC was in 1945 at Comacchio. Cpl Hunter was awarded the VC posthumously, and was on a "hostilities only" engagement, perhaps the nearest to a Reservist prior to the formation of the RM Volunteer Reserve in 1948.

[Jerry Can]

Outstanding, good effort Royal.

Some good news in a bad week for 40 Commando.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7322011.stm

[PPRuNe Pop]

I think you can be assured that this is not a JB thread.

From what I read this one very brave marine. A moment of totally unselfish thought and he saved his mates - what more can you ask? :ok:

[airborne_artist]

Whichever award he may get will be thoroughly justified, but I would be as thrilled for the Corps as for the individual if a VC is given, as it's clear their commitment and professionalism in Afg. has been total.

[Toddington Ted]

A A, absolutely. I was made aware of this amazing act of bravery whilst out in theatre (nice to be back in Blighty I must admit:ok:) and I hope that due recognition is given. 40 CDO were very helpful to us at HQ from the media ops aspect as well and, thanks to them (and the other formations whose patience was tested at times too!) we were able to get some good stuff into the media for the folks back home. Sad to read about their loss today btw.

[dum_my]

Amazing story.

It has some similarities with Cpl Jason Dunham, US Marine Corps, who lost his life doing the same thing. He was awarded the Medal Of Honor, and a new Arleigh Burke-class destroyer (DDG 109) will be named after him when it is christened next year.

The Medal of Honor certificate reads -
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as a Rifle Squad Leader, 4th Platoon, Company K, Third Battalion, Seventh Marines (Reinforced), Regimental Combat Team 7, First Marine Division (Reinforced), on 14 April 2004.
Corporal Dunham's squad was conducting a reconnaissance mission in the town of Karabilah, Iraq, when they heard rocket-propelled grenade and small arms fire erupt approximately two kilometers to the west. Corporal Dunham led his Combined Anti-Armor Team towards the engagement to provide fire support to their Battalion Commander's convoy, which had been ambushed as it was traveling to Camp Husaybah. As Corporal Dunham and his Marines advanced, they quickly began to receive enemy fire. Corporal Dunham ordered his squad to dismount their vehicles and led one of his fire teams on foot several blocks south of the ambushed convoy. Discovering seven Iraqi vehicles in a column attempting to depart, Corporal Dunham and his team stopped the vehicles to search them for weapons. As they approached the vehicles, an insurgent leaped out and attacked Corporal Dunham. Corporal Dunham wrestled the insurgent to the ground and in the ensuing struggle saw the insurgent release a grenade. Corporal Dunham immediately alerted his fellow Marines to the threat. Aware of the imminent danger and without hesitation, Corporal Dunham covered the grenade with his helmet and body, bearing the brunt of the explosion and shielding his Marines from the blast. In an ultimate and selfless act of bravery in which he was mortally wounded, he saved the lives of at least two fellow Marines. By his undaunted courage, intrepid fighting spirit, and unwavering devotion to duty, Corporal Dunham gallantly gave his life for his country, thereby reflecting great credit upon himself and upholding the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service.

[Man-on-the-fence]

Apologies for the Civvy input here but if you dont get the VC for throwing yourself on a grenade and taking the explosion then what do you get one for?

Sir you have my total admiration and respect.

[Lurking123]

Huge cahoonahs.

Oh, and give the man a top level medal as well.

[Satellite_Driver]

Yes - well deserving of the highest level of recognition.

And I hope they give him a new day-sack too, because if he tries taking that one back to clothing stores for exchange he's going to get some severe sucking of teeth and comments about fair wear and tear...

[Flyingblind]

Bloody hell,

As others have said he deserves the highest award.

And perhaps the day sack could be donated and displayed (with his body armour) in a place of his choosing.

Hope his mates bought him a pint.

Well done Sir.

[ExGrunt]

Apologies for the Civvy input here but if you dont get the VC for throwing yourself on a grenade and taking the explosion then what do you get one for?


MotF,

In my day there was a manual laying out the criteria for all the major decorations (Can't remember what it was called).

IIRC the criteria for the VC was:

An act in the presence of the enemy with a 90% probability of being killed, with special consideration being given to those rescuing wounded comrades.

EG

[airborne_artist]

EG - interesting to note this comment in the article:

"The patrol commander, Corporal Adam Lesley threw himself to the ground and another man got behind a wall, but one marine had frozen and was still standing when the grenade detonated."My reaction was, 'My God this can't be real'," said Cpl Lesley. "Croucher had simply lain back and used his day sack to blunt the force of the explosion. You would expect nine out of 10 people to die in that situation.""

[GalleyTeapot]

VC had been awarded for the same act in WWI, I was told the story on a battlefield tour where we visited the grave of William McFadzean VC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Frederick_McFadzean

[dum_my]

Another Medal Of Honor was awarded yesterday for the same act. This time to a SEAL:

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=36049

[Wingswinger]

An extraordinary act of selfless courage. What a young man. If a VC is not forthcoming it will be a travesty.

[cornish-stormrider]

I do sincerly hope that said young marine is awarded big shiny medal.

Do recipients of the VC get saluted first or is that an american/movie thing....??

If not then does anyone think it might be due for a change??

[GPMG]

Royal Marine Reservists are termed 'Rubber Daggers' in the corps, I think that term will be re-evaluated.

He's lucky that he had a big radio battery in that daysack and not a pack of Menu B's.

I hope that he not only gets the VC but is also able to make a mint out the story after he leaves doing motivational speeches and the presentation circuit.

He deserves everything he can get.

[Tigs2]

Just an outstanding act of selflessness. The stuff i used to read in 'Boys Own' and 'Victor'.

[gar170]

I hope that he gets what he deserves and hopfully the reserves gain a little more respect from the regulars.

[Man-on-the-fence]

EG

Thanks for that, kind of reinforces the arguement for the VC really.

[Max Shutterspeed]

F*ck me. Balls like cabbages.

You'd certainly want him on your side in a fight. If that doesn't qualify for a VC, then what does?

Hope he's not buying his own beer for a very long time to come, well done, bloke.

Max

[Rigger1]

Much Respect....

Hope he gets it, let's have a few more real heros in the media.

[GPMG]

Gar170,
RMR do get a lot of respect from regular bootnecks, I was just saying that I don't think the nickname is very apt.

[scribbler614]

Small correction to media reports. Bootneck in question is a former RM reservist but currently a regular.
And an extremely brave young man.
Would be great to see him well decorated - for him and for rest of 40.
:D

[Tigs2]

By the sounds of it he is so modest he would be embarrassed. The bravest people always seem to be the most humble, yet in the movies they are portrayed as the opposite. Well done chap. I would have been stupid enough to fall on the grenade on my stomach.

[barnstormer1968]

Can I please add my thoughts on this.
I grew up reading old copies of hotspur, or warlord comics, where acts like this were the norm...BUT when I joined the Army I soon realised just how easy it was to get killed, while doing nothing at all (chemical or artillery attack etc.) So when I read the above posts (before reading the actual article) the act of this marine seemed very selfless and brave, but maybe not enough to earn a VC in these times of reluctant medal givings. BUT once I had read the article, a couple of things leapt out of the print to me....It was in the dark, and, this marine squashed the grenade using his back.

The above, is how I basically see the event in cold terms, and a reflection of my view of how our government view our armed forces, and choose to reward them. But sitting here in the comfort of my house, my own personal and emotional view, is that this is a legend of a bloke, he did something totally outstanding that night. Yes it was in the highest traditions of the corps, but is was so much more than that. Not only did he clearly risk is life (and may even have thought he was about to give it up for his friends) but to do it at night, and trap the grenade by lying on it (on his back), demonstrates a high level of skill too. This was clearly one of those times where you had to get it right the first time.
And although it seems that nearly all VC holders are very modest about their achievements, they have all done extraordinary things, and this young marine should be included in their ranks.

Barnstormer 1968

[Utrinque Apparatus]

I particularly liked the comment about curling his legs up to avoid losing them ;)

If that one fleeting thought and action does not indicate the selflessness and courage of his actions, and more importantly his duty of care for his oppos then what does ?

Not to dilute the daily acts of courage and such service to their country by all in theatre right now, but this one does catch the eye ?

If his mates want him to receive the VC then it should be done - nobody is your worst critic than your mates in the RM :8

[Tocsin]

Small correction to media reports. Bootneck in question is a former RM reservist but currently a regular.
And an extremely brave young man.
Would be great to see him well decorated - for him and for rest of 40.
:D

Just a follow-up on this: all reservists on call-up become part of their Regular organisation - I've never "signed up" for the RAF, but that's what my campaign medals say on the rim (and proud of it).

Congratulations to the Bootie, well worthy of a VC (or a GC, if they can't get round the "face of the enemy" bit - it does rank alongside).

[Chalkstripe]

What amazes me is how switched on he was. To have the presence of mind to roll onto the grenade, using his pack to squash it down, and then to lift his legs - all in 2-5 seconds? (Although they must have been the longest seconds of his life)

I fear that I'd have been like his opo - standing there ith my mouth flapping like a fish out of water!

They are all extraordinary people - he just happens to have been a bit more so!

Sir, I salute you!

[GPMG]

Just chatting to a mate of mine and he's pretty sure that a holder of the VC is automatically classed as the senior person on a parade.

Is this true?

If so and should this Marine get what he deserves, does that mean that he can turn up to a parade 10 minutes late and leave the CGRM and everyone waiting?

[Northern Circuit]

a VC (if present) leads the parade

[highcirrus]

Sunday Telegraph, 6 April 2008.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/06/ntattoo206.xml

It is widely accepted that to be awarded the Victoria Cross a serviceman needs to show such astonishing courage that nine times out of 10 he would die carrying out the action.

If that is the case, Lance Corporal Matthew Croucher is absolutely entitled to be awarded Britain's most prestigious bravery award.

With only a few seconds to make a decision, the 24-year-old Royal Marine threw himself onto a live grenade in order to save the lives of three comrades. Showing intelligence as well as valour, the soldier twisted onto his back to allow his rucksack to take the full force of the inevitable blast during a raid on a Taliban compound in Afghanistan.

Yet, even then, perhaps 99 times out of 100 L/Cpl Croucher would have been killed or horribly injured. Instead, he was simply left stunned, bleeding from the nose and temporarily deaf, having been hurled across the compound, while his rucksack was shredded

[cazatou]

A very brave young Man.

Did the Blanket Stackers make him pay for the rucksack?

[batfink2]

Good Drills that man! Big balls deserve big gongs!!!

[Two's in]

It is widely accepted that to be awarded the Victoria Cross a serviceman needs to show such astonishing courage that nine times out of 10 he would die carrying out the action.

The "widely accepted" line about dying 9 times out of 10 is misleading. The criteria for award of the Victoria Cross is;

"... most conspicuous bravery, or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour or self-sacrifice, or extreme devotion to duty in the presence of the enemy."

Death is extremely likey, but it is not a quantifiable statistic, despite what Lord Ashcroft of Belize likes to write in the Torygraph.


a holder of the VC is automatically classed as the senior person on a parade.


"Although it is not statutory for all ranks to salute a bearer of the Victoria Cross and there is no official requirement that appears in the official Warrant of the VC, nor in Queen's Regulations and Orders' tradition dictates that this occurs and as such all Officers will salute a soldier awarded a VC or GC"

...sounds like an excellent habit that has become tradition. It would be an honour to be able to salute any VC holder.

[Zoom]

To quote L/Cpl Croucher in the Sunday Telegraph:

"I thought, 'I've set the bl**dy thing off and I'm going to do whatever it takes to save the others'."

What a fantastic attitude. That's true comradeship.

[airborne_artist]

Take a few moments to listen to the citation being read out at his GC investiture today, and look at the smile on HM's face. Bet that's one morning's work she was more than happy to carry out.

Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7699156.stm) to BBCi

[Ali Barber]

Isn't the GC the equivalent of the VC but not when facing hostile action. How hostile does a grenade have to get?

[airborne_artist]

It was a trip wired-activated grenade, so Terry could have been miles away. Equally, it could have been the start of an ambush, but I don't think they took any hostile fire apart from the grenade.

[taxydual]

Stuff comment. Doesn't that citation, and the look on the guy's face when he meet's his Soverign, brings tears to your eyes. BLOODY WELL DONE.

[topcat68]

Cap well and truly doffed:ok:

[Logistics Loader]

Greatest respect to you Lcpl Croucher...

I "razzed" a Green Beret in 2mins, because a Marine left it on a coach...!!
That cost him a few beers...!! i hope your oppo's dig deep and buy you several..!! Respect to you of the highest order..!!

As for the Order of precedence... ie VC 1st

Gen Sir Mike Jackson, (as was), When Johnson Beharry was awarded the VC by HM Queen, he was a Private, Gen Sir Mike, took 2nd place for his award..

he was quoted as saying something like, "even the most senior soldier in the British Army, takes a back seat when a VC is on the table"

[rickshaw1]

Bravo Zulu...

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[rightbank]

From todays Daily Mail he already has a Victoria Cross - its the name of his girlfriend!! He is thus the first person in history to hold a George Cross and a Victoria Cross.

Very well done!

[Flyingblind]

Just seen the BBC video of the presentation, absolutely well done.

Mateship in its truest form.

[Logistics Loader]

I was an air cadet too..!!

so was Sir Jimmy Saville...

god, we all have a lot in common !!!

[Chugalug2]

airborne artist:
Expect that this will get moved over to JB, as there's no mil aviation component,
PPRuNe Pop:
you can be assured that this is not a JB thread.
This is an Aviation site, and this a Military Aviation forum, but any idea that this noble courageous and modest man's act of selfless heroism should be banished to Jet Blast is macabre. Thanks Pop for again showing that jobsworths do not officiate here at least.
One is left in utter awe at such bravery, yet I have the sneaking suspicion that waiting to the side while his lengthy citation was read out before going forward to receive the George Cross from his Sovereign was more nerve wracking for him than the instant decision he took on that dangerous night. How we lesser mortals anguish about what we might have done faced with such certain death! Well done Lance Corporal Mathew Croucher GC you are a credit to 40 Commando, to the Royal Marines, and to your Country. I would be proud to salute you.

[GreenKnight121]

Navy to name newest destroyer after SEAL who died in Iraq (http://hamptonroads.com/2008/10/navy-name-newest-destroyer-after-seal-who-died-iraq)
By Cindy Clayton


The Virginian-Pilot

© October 30, 2008

Navy Secretary Donald C. Winter has announced that the newest Zumwalt class destroyer will be named the Michael Monsoor for a SEAL who died in Iraq when he threw himself on a grenade to save two teammates.


Winter made the announcement last night at a Navy SEAL Warrior Fund benefit gala in New York City, according to a Department of Defense news release.


Monsoor was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor earlier this year for his actions in Ramadi, Iraq in September 2006.

"Michael Monsoor's name will now be linked with one of our nation's most visible examples of military power, U.S. Navy warship," the release quotes Winter as saying last night. "His legacy will inspire the hearts of future sailors who serve on the ship that bears his name."


The ship will be the second Zumwalt class destroyer and will carry a crew of 148 officers and sailors, the release says. It will be 600 feet long with a beam of 80.7 feet, a 15,000-ton displacement and a top speed of 30 knots.