Middle age pilot careers

[moda07]

Hi All

Given the perceived employment prospects in aviation these days I would be interested to know from those of you who are of similar age how hard it is for someone who is 46 years of age to get back into the aviation industry after an absence of 20 years but always with a deep and ever present interest in all things aviation.

What are the employment prospects like for a 46 years old re - GA twins / GA instructing / RPT / Airlines ? Although officially there is no such thing as age discrimination these days, what is the actual reality regarding age with the major RPT’s and Airlines ?

Twenty years after being made redundant at the age of 26 and with the pressures of being newly married and with a mortgage to service, I was unable to secure regular (paid) flying hours and I decided on a total career change. I ended up leaving the aviation scene just a little disillusioned.

At the time of leaving, my experience consisted of :

Grade Two Instructor Rating
MECIR (only initial issue)
SCPL subjects

900 hours total including :
70 hours twins (mostly on a Baron but also a few hours on Twin Commanche and Duchess)
400 hours instructing

I do not have the required passes in Maths and English at high school level that the RPT's and airlines usually want. However, after my flying days I entered Uni. as a mature age student and did graduate after 6 years of part time study with a Bachelor of Commerce degree and I then subsequently completed a Diploma in Financial Planning – unrelated to Maths and English I know ! but I guess it shows ability to hit the books if necessary.

Also, would appreciate recommendations of any good training organisations left in Brisbane if I decide to renew licences and endorsements ?

My head (and bank account) says no - don't do It !

My heart says yes - go for it !

Am I out of my mind ?

Any constructive feed back would be welcome.

Thanks;)

[OhSpareMe]

Do your ATPL subjects and throw in an application with QANTAS. You meet the criteria of having at least a Bachelors Degree of any discipline. Plus you meet the hours and licence requirements.

They are looking for a load of people in the next few years and your success will largely come down to the interview. I reckon the fact that you been off pursuing another career will work in your favour. Most of us understand that family, etc can get in the way of an early flying career.

Give it a go. It will cost you a stamp. You don't have anything to lose.

PM me if you want. I started flying when I was 30 and entered QANTAS at 37 having never expected to gain entry to a major airline due to age. Guys older than I have since been selected. It all comes down to how you perform in the selection process.

[kellykelpie]

Go for it - good luck.

[KRUSTY 34]

moda07,

I heard on the grapevine that the CP of REX has been doing handstands about a recent recruit. A middle aged dentist who has spent the last 20 years flying his twin beech around single pilot on private ops! Now just how well this particular individual performs will remain to be seen. But I assume the cause of the CP's excitement is probably because of how this individual's "experience" compares to the number of candidates that they have been getting lately.

The motives for someone wanting to put themselves in this position can only be guessed at, but I think it's a safe bet that money is not a factor.

In your case, my advice would be to get yourself requalified and current. Just how long and expensive an exercise that will be is ultimately up to you. IMHO you are definitely not too old, not now. When I was learning to fly, if you hadn't made an interview with one of the majors by age 25, you had missed the boat! Times certainly have changed.

Best of luck with it. apply to everyone. You never know what might turn up.

[gas-chamber]

There has never been a better time to get in to a regional. Just make sure your instrument skills are up to speed. You would have to go right seat, so the ATPL is not as important as good instrument skills. Spend the money there. Read my lips, because the one thing that lets older guys down is the simulator.
Get the ATPL as soon as you can after you get employed.
From an ex-chief pilot's point of view, a 40-something family person with barely enough experience is an attractive proposition compared with some young stud who you just know you are training for Emirates or Cathay.

[GGR]

Sounds like you may have a chance, keep the world advised of your progress

Good Luck mate.

GGR

[pithblot]

Go with your heart mate. There has never been a better time for us older blokes. All the best :ok:

[7e7100]

There are loads of good jobs in all avenues of aviation at the moment. Just try your luck...you will be surpirsed!

[Pool Boy]

Go for it, my last employer always hired a couple of people who were in their later years ( with each intake), and who did not always have a lot of experience! It always made flight deck conversations a lot more interesting, to have someone who has had another life outside of aviation.

[Jet_A_Knight]

Never been a better time for people in your position.

Get out there and MAKE it happen!!

best of luck.:ok:

[Pinky the pilot]

Go for it!!! I'm 53 with TT 3400, M/E 1000+ and six renewals of a MECIR plus ATPL subjects and I'm going to give it another go as soon as I raise the cash for the Instrument Rating renewal.

Have'nt flown anything in over three years but the time has never been better for another go.:ok:

[Howard Hughes]

We have employed people just like you very recently Pinky!

Plenty of jobs around at the moment, the problem is deciding which avenue to take!:eek:

Have seen people aged 47, 54 & 58 get a start with the majors recently!:ok:

[ACMS]

A good friend just got accepted into QF Link with bugger all experience and he was mid 40's

GO FOR IT PEOPLE, it's the best damn job in the world.:ok:

DON'T LET THIS OPPORTUNITY PASS YOU BY.

[KRUSTY 34]

ACMS.

Reality check: IMHO it is the best damn job in the world but.... Don't expect to fund your retirement with it!

[Omega471]

Absolutely go for it.

I'm 36 with a bare CPL, 260hrs, and have just returned to flying after 10 years. It cost $1800 to get current, and I already have a part time gig meat bombing in Melbourne so I'm back to square already.

I have also applied for the QF Cadet scheme. At present I'm at Stages 3 & 4, the medical and the panel interview. Whilst I haven't had any official feedback yet, external eye exam to be completed, I'm confident that I'll get in. The night I returned home from Sydney, I had an e-mail from QF advising me that "effective immediately NVFR is no longer a pre-requisite for the Commercial Cadet Pilot Program".

I assume that this only applies to me, as nothing has changed on their web site. I have previously held a MECIR.

The moral to the story. IF you really want to get back into flying, now is the time. The way I see it, the boom wont last forever and I'm doing everything I can to ensure that I have a seat in an aircraft when the boom stops.

Good luck.

Omega471

[flyitboy]

ACMS interesting you should say that 'cause I know a guy not too long ago applied to QL (not sure why he bothered tho) he was late 40's around 5000 hrs TT with most of that Turbine & QL said not suitable! Why? he didn't have year 12 subjects, how pathetic are they! They(QL) don't deserve experience like that, they get correct spelling pilots who would be able to fill out the paperwork 100% but that's about all!



F

[ACMS]

My mate has all the required education levels the the rat require.

Sad but true fact of QF recruitment I'm affraid.

[Howard Hughes]

Flyitboy,

I know two people who have got a start with Eastern recently without the required HSC subjects.:eek:

[sms777]

Bloody hell man!!!!:eek:
You just gave a big kick in the bum. I just turned 49 with similar experience and every time i hear aircraft noise i run outside to look up the sky.
My wife going to hate me but i am putting my wings back on my shirt.
Where is that phone?
Thanks dude, i owe you one!:ok:

[chimbu warrior]

Krusty, this looks like proof positive that the Rex CP believes in the tooth fairy! :ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

Only conclusion that I've been able to come up with chimbu!

[P.O.M]

After reading this thread and a 1st flight in 3 years its time to finish the old CPL (stopped due to a couple of Jr pilots dropping from the Mrs bomb bay)

At 37 I have no large ambition but to get into an office with the best view everything indicates now or never....

Good luck to the other chaps taking the plunge too :ok:

Now, where's them there learnin books????.....:8

[Pinky the pilot]

sms777; Nurries!:ok: A Glenfiddich with a little ice will do!:ok:

[Osho]

I turned 46 a few days ago and I am attending Hunter Valley Aviation/Basair's Pilot Career workshop later this month. When I left school I wanted to gain my CPL at NASA by undertaking their full time course, however I couldn't raise the $15k fee at the time as I couldn't stick a low pay/low care factor job for any longer than 3 or 4 months.....anyway, many jobs, much travel, 3 kids later I'm now in the position where I am in the earnout phase of selling a business that I have built up over the last 10 years and I'm looking into flying as an alternative to undertaking any more "shinybum" pursuits. I am now in the positon where I can fund my CPL and some of the ratings. I'm not going into flying looking for big $$ as I've paid off the mortgage and have some commercial property providing an income, I'm more in it for the learning and the "X" factor that we are all seeking. I'm interested in a CPL (Helicopter) licence as well and I suppose at this stage I'm hesitant about what employment prospects are available for a mature age heli pilot with nil hours versus a fixed wing CPL as I'm not really in a position to go Outback and live in the shearer's shed to build up experience and hours (although I would love to, I'm sure my wife and family wouldn't share my passion). Reading these posts looks like I should just get on with it, do my CPL and see what comes available, I have trained a lot of people on technical/hands-on type courses and enjoy this, so I would be interested in an Instructors role? Cuppla questions..Am I best doing a full time course instead of trying to complete my CPL by doing 2 to 3 days per week? Any recommedations of who NOT to do my training with, both fixed and/or rotary. Is it worhtwhile doing the combined fixed wing PPL/Rotary CPL, not so much to save money but to get exposure to both disciplines or should I choose 1 and maximise my time/experience/hours. I'm sure I'll get a wide variety of answers here....

BTW: I'm based on Sydney's Northern Beaches and the prospect of commuting to Bankstown every day doesn't hold much appeal, I'd rather go up the F3 to the Hunter Valley or Newcastle and do 3 days a week up there or relocate to the Sunshine Coast/Adelaide/Melbourne if the training/courses are of a better standard?

Cheers

Cameron

[sms777]

How about a "bottle of bad red"? I will help you drink it!;)
After the shutdown checks of course:)

[KRUSTY 34]

Quote:

"however I couldn't raise the $15k fee at the time as I couldn't stick a low pay/low care factor job for any longer than 3 or 4 months....."

You know Cameron, those low pay/low care factor jobs (quite often more than one at a time) are how the great majority of airline pilots have achieved where they are today. Don't get me wrong, I wish you and your ilk all the best, but the sacrifices of those who have made it should not be underestimated.

My point is, if you really want succeed, A drive to Bankstown should be the last thing to put you off. Although we are now in a period of unprecedented demand, there will be much greater sacrifices ahead that you should be prepared for.

[How's it Hanging]

Having recently questioned some of the bosses at work about their recruitment policy, the feedback I got was they were very keen on older candidates and they were placing less importance on psych/skills/education than the previous strict pass levels.

If I were to turn up for the interview/testing process though, I would still do my research and do some practice exams for the standard Qantas testing procedure.

I know a lot of the older candidates previously struggled with the testing procedure, and even though it has less weighting in the selection process these days, the testing is pretty simple if you are prepared and know what sort of questions you will be asked and have practised them a bit.

In the sim you have to show that you know IFR procedures and they are looking for a good scan and improvement at flying the sim as the session goes on. There are plenty of ways to practise that as well and it shows if you have not come a bit prepared and put in a bit of effort.

Also if you know someone at QLink, the recruitment people are open to current staff recommending someone for an interview, so to use a CRM philosophy, use all available resources.

As others have said there is opportunities out there now, so go for it, you'll never know if you don't give it a try.

[Towering Q]

Chimbu and Krusty....it could be handy having a dentist flying for Rex, especially for those experienced types who realise that getting a pay rise is not unlike pulling teeth.:8

[The_Pharoah]

Hi guys

you don't know how happy reading this forum post actually makes me feel right now. Flying is ALL I've ever wanted to do since I could walk (no kidding) but I grew up knowing my family could never afford it. I'm 32 now and, after reading a lot of the posts on this here forum and seeing all the 20 y/o's (or they 'sound' like it) chat about enrolling for Etihad or whatever, I kinda got disheartened to think that maybe I've missed my calling by not doing this earlier.

However, having read these posts makes me realise that I'm still young (not a spring chicken mind you) and I hopefully still may have a career in aviation (other than flying as a B763 captain for Qantas on Vatsim and FSX!!) and therefore fulfill my dreams.

Thanks one and all.

Pharoah :ok:

[Brachetta]

The best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago.
The second best time is right now.

Don't look back in anger, go for it and you'll get it.
Best of luck
:ok:

Fabian

[Stormynights]

1100 hours total
50 hours twin
39 years old
just started in PNG
if i can anyone can

[neville_nobody]

From an ex-chief pilot's point of view, a 40-something family person with barely enough experience is an attractive proposition compared with some young stud who you just know you are training for Emirates or Cathay

Yes the old age card.......... See that one played a few times giving the whole hand on heart story that they want to hang around forever. Only to piss off in less time than the young dude as soon as they have the minimum requirements for whoever.

Used to really give me the irrits as being one of the abovemention young stud brigade getting shafted, basically just another form of discrimination.

Anyway that aside now is the time to enter the industry for anyone of any age really as long as you don't want to have any sort of quality of life, or a salary that would be considered comfortable to live on in a city.

[mr.tos]

Go for it mate. You already stated that you have a degree, so that's all the 'education' you need according to the big roo :rolleyes:

[tinpis]

Good one,someone gave stormy a job :ok:

[Super G]

Great thread and great posts guys.:D

I too place myself well and truly in the aviation tragic category and still run outside every time I hear anything flying overhead (including flocks of snow geese when I lived in Canada) and was wondering about the QF requirements mentioned here. Moda mentioned he had around 900 total and 70 hours twin. Is this really enough to get QF or Jetstar interested?

I am also attempting to start my commercial career at the mid to late 30s despite flying mostly private ops for the last 12 years and had thought that 1500hrsTT with around 500 command on twin was the holy grail for QF consideration.

I would eventually love to move back to Oz and fly for one of our airlines but at the moment am having a ball flying a 206 (soon to be Islander and Twotter hopefully) into some amazing strips around the South Pacific.

I also possess the magic passes in English, maths and physics at grade 12 level (some time ago obviously), a degree in business, CPL, MECIR, ATPL passes, single engine turbine experience, 500TT, about 30 twin and around 11years of ATC experience in tower, approach and area (both radar and procedural, military and civil) and presently a working ATC with current ratings.

Would the airlines take ATC experience into consideration when assessing candidates you think?

Good luck to all those pursuing an aviation career. Lets hope the clowns in the USA haven't screwed the world economy badly enough to shut down the aviation industry!

G

[tinpis]

Would the airlines take ATC experience into consideration when assessing candidates you think?

Cant see why not . They know everything :rolleyes:



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[Mr. Hat]

Osho, full time is the go mate.

As for schools stay away from sausage factories and try and find a small aero club type operation or a charter company that does flying training on the side. What you want is an instructor that has been there done that and can show you how to fly. What you don't want is some kid that sees you as another hour closer to his/her seat on a 400 with QF.

Don't try and go somewhere that reckon the airlines prefer them because of this and that. Just go to a place that will teach you the required skills to save your life.

Trust me i made all the mistakes for you!!

[bushpig]

57 yrs old, about a 7 year break and got back into it 14 months ago. I have had response from QF link but not sure I am interested actually. Currently flying a King Air left seat. I was previously endorsed albeit some time since I'd flown one. I was checked back into the B200 a few months ago by another "older chap" who had also returned not to long before after a long break. It was an enjoyable and thorough ICUS period and line check.

It seems to me that right now age really is no barrier which is really good to see compared to what is was in the past.

Go for it!!