PPL to CPL

[OZZI_PPL]

Hi Guys,

I currently hold a PPL with just over 100 hours single engine time, about 40 PIC. Originally I just planned on doing recreational flying, but now am considering the possibility of getting my CPL.

As I understand, if you don't complete a 150hr course, you require 200 hrs. Do I just need to keep flying till I reach 200 then sit a test? Should I mix in some dual time with it?

Cheers

[bentleg]

Do I just need to keep flying till I reach 200 then sit a test? Should I mix in some dual time with it?

There is more to a CPL than extra hours. There are things a CPL has to know and be able to do that are not a requirement for PPL. Those who have actually done it might elaborate.

Get some formal training (dual) for CPL.

[Wyle E Coyote]

Talk to a flight school. You need the right types of hours too (X-country solo/dual, advanced dual, IF, and about 100pic from memory) and obviously the CPL exam credits.

I thought the CPL test was easier than the PPL, even though the tolerances are tighter - probably just due to having a few more hours and therefore being more comfortable with the plane.

I Probably couldn't do it now.....too much straight and level ;)

[WannaBeBiggles]

Yes, you need 100 hours PIC cross country.

CSU and Retract endo's, and your flight test needs to be done in an aircraft fitted with atleast a CSU that can do 130kts or better.

bentleg is correct, there is much more to getting a CPL than just building your hours, you need passes in the 7 CPL theory subjects, fly more accurately, fly more econimically and smoothly.

There is also a requirement for 10 hours IF time.

Most schools will give you a route to fly on the day, and give you 1 hour to do EVERYTHING, from plan, to fuel the aircraft.

You will be taught how do fly professionally, whereas a PPL really just teaches you how to fly.

Finding small homesteads, or a tiny disused mine in the middle of nowhere is a lot different to finding a town with 10,000+ inhabitants, so being 2nm off track and not having your ground speed calculations down pat, and trusting your time calculations, then your going to have a hard time with the navs.

Another thing that makes the CPL course interesting is when the instructor (acting as a customer) changes his/her mind mid-flight about destination, which could have all sorts of operational implications.
Knowing your air law is also a must, as an instructor will often quiz you on such items as carriage of cargo, infants, disabled/handicapped persons, flight and duty times etc.

Fun and games! :E

[PlankBlender]

For a non-integrated CPL student (i.e. no formal CPL course), the requirements from CAR 5.115 are basically 100 hours PIC (not cross country PIC!), 100 hours flight time aeroplane, 20 hours cross country PIC aeroplane, 10 hours instrument aeroplane (up to five of which can be in a sim), and 200 hours total time.

Once you've sat the seven CPL theory exams, you should know enough about the topics raised above to pass the oral part of the test, and by 200 hours total time you should also be good enough to pass the CPL flight test. Best to fly with an instructor or other experienced pilot you trust and get an honest opinion. Schools will of course tell you you need to fly with them to improve this, that, and the other (remember that's how they make money :E), I would take such advice with a pinch of salt and try my best to keep them honest..

Enjoy :ok:

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Hi Ozzi_PPL,

I had a few more PPL hours than you (and quite a bit of CSU/retract time - very important) but deliberately stayed outside of the flying school environment as I don't believe they cope very well with this type of scenario and make you jump through hoops you don't need.

With a freelance ATO (who admittedly knew me and had given my PIFR) and all my theory completed well in advance, we did about 5 hours dual focussing on the 'CPL' extras (diversions, diversions, diversions and low flying diversions) then the test.

I recommend, if you have access to such a resource, use the rest of your cross country hours picking up/using a SEIFR rating with the extra 40odd hours dual you need with them so they know what you can and can't do, pick up the rest of the x-country hours under the IFR then the CPL should be straightforward.

UTR

[OZZI_PPL]

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

Is there an experience "cut-off" to enrol in an integrated CPL course?

Obviously, in a perfect world I'd like to join an integrated course, whch I'd then only require 150 hr total instead of the 200.

Cheers

Ozzi

[WannaBeBiggles]

As far as I know Integrated courses are from ab-inito to CPL. However I could be wrong. Also 'Integrated' is used a bit more loosely than the European equivalent.

UTR's suggestion does sound plausible (and rather interesting!), though it would depend on your abilities and learning style I guess.

I would suggest you get your CPL subjects out of the way ASAP, they will give you *some* insight in to what is expected of a commercial pilot.

You'll have fun with the good ol' Echo Mark IV, tare out your hair with Aerodynamics and AGK, Learn that you do not know how to decipher an ARFOR (KDR :ouch:), Learn there are many different kinds of 1 in 60's, realise you cannot just fly from BOD to EOD and be legal and you will turn your AIP's, CAR's and CAO's in to things that resemble porcupines. :p

If you have time to do a full-time course, I would suggest Bob Taits CPL and IREX classes, well worth it :ok:

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

To sit the CPL test, as well as having the aeronautical experience you need to have achieved the competencies in the Day VFR syllabus, there must be evidence if this in the student record and each element must be signed off by an instructor as consitently competent to CPL standard, this achievement record has to be sent to CASA with the CPL application. Then you need to be recommended for test by a CFI.
So UTR, how you managed to do all this without going to a flying school is interesting.

We've found it can take anything from 5 to 25 hours of dual to achieve the competencies, depending on how good the basic training was, how useful the "hour building" has been in terms of gaining valuable experience rather than drilling holes in the sky, how many bad habits have to be eradicated and the attitude and preparation of the student.

150 hours is the minimum, not the total, hours required for an integarated course.

My advice to you is get another 60+ hours PIC then got assessed for training required to upgrade to CPL competency.

[Alex 009]

In my CPL i got grilled on low level flying, so make sure you get lots of practice...and as others have said diversions

[VH-XXX]

130 knots or better? ummmm...

Try 120 knots...