L@ser 'cluster' attack on Sydney planes

[jbr76]

From News.com.au Top stories | News from Australia and around the world online | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au)

March 30, 2008 12:32am

* l@zer beams focused on incoming flights
* Cluster attack is 'unprecedented' authorities say
* Attacks are increasing

SIX planes had to alter their flight paths into Sydney airport after pilots were targeted in an unprecedented l@zer "cluster attack', authorities say.

Air traffic controllers had to close one flight approach late on Friday, after up to four people targeted planes with l@zers in an apparently co-ordinated attack.

Pilots reported a number of green l@zers were trained on their planes for about 15 minutes, from 10.30pm (AEDT).

The l@zers appeared to have originated from the Bexley area, in south-western Sydney.

"This was the worst attack in our experience," Air Services Australia spokesman Bryan Nicholson has told Fairfax News.

"It was described by the pilots as a cluster attack which implies some sort of co-ordination or organisation."

The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) said such l@zer attacks on planes were increasing in frequency.

"There are five to six reports every week around Australia," CASA spokesman Peter Gibson told Fairfax.

"It is extremely dangerous as it can temporarily blind a pilot or distract them as they are coming in to land."

The maximum penalty for shining a l@zer at a plane is two years in jail.

Full link here:- L@zers face ban after planes attacked | News.com.au Top stories | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23454423-2,00.html)

[No Further Requirements]

There is a perfect opportunity there to alert these idiots to what happens. They know it is dangerous etc, but they need to know what happens the THEM if they get caught (which they do).

Towards the end of the article, it needs to read something along the lines of....

"....the Federal Police have been very successful recently in apprehending and prosecuting these people, most of whom have received hefty fines and/or time in jail....."

These morons need to be told they are getting caught.

Cheers,

NFR.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Took my kid to the Crusty show last night. Someone in the crowd was flashing a green laser around as we all tried to depart. Anyone cop a flash from Calder last night?

P:mad:s hiding in the crowd. How small are these things?

[ZK-NSJ]

how about sending the raaf over in a hornet with one of them laser guided missiles,

[VH-Cheer Up]

About time someone invented a laser-seeking high-intensity, very narrow-beam e-m pulse module that detects these devices and blows up the output transducer.

How hard can this be? Ready-made market for all airlines and probably every military air force in the world.

Now, was it V/I = R? Where's me slide rule?

[Teal]

Although operating at a different wavelength, the technology for laser detectors (and jammers) has been on sale for years - for ground-based laser speed guns. Rather than passive systems though, the obvious action is an outright ban on their sale or possession with hefty criminal penalties for breaches.

If anyone doubts the power of a green laser, you can see one light up a match at this link:

http://www.spymode.com/laserv/match.avi

Even at a great distance, they can inflict permanent eye damage.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

I opened this thread to be greeted with following Google ads at the top of the screen"

"Green Laser Pointers
Beam Visible For Miles, Battery Powered Burning Lasers

www.LaserGlow.com50mW 150mW 300mW 1W
Green Laser, Blue Laser, IR Lasers Laser Pointer,Buy High Power Lasers"


UTR

[dreamjob]

Never seen the add, but it's not ideal if true. :=

<edit> Ahh yes, there it is (Google add).

[-JLS-]

Hah, oh dear.....I've got the ad too. A nice tasteful dark blue box with bright green text. Those Google ads do their job well.

[vee1-rotate]

More reports of laser activity in Melbourne tonight...ATC reporting a green laser been shone at aircraft about 5 miles east of Epping...

So tough to find culprits in this sort of situation, but I guess the quicker an aircraft can relay its position when hit by the laser, the quicker the local police can head to the area and try and find the morons involved..

[Cap'n Arrr]

Perhaps a reward offered (say 5000) for information leading to the conviction of a laser pointer (that is, someone who points). They'd brag about it for sure, easiest 5K someone would ever make!:ok::E

[Dixondik]

Where's POLAIR during all of this, surely they could have an input and assit. WRT to the F/A-18s, if they were to use laser guided bombs, they'd be shooting toward the Aircraft (obviously not possible). I say attach smoke grenades to all RPT aircraft and if they spot a laser poof, drop the grenade, then call in the Pigs!

[Critical Reynolds No]

Heard a rumour that someone pointed a laser at one of our new C-17s and the counter measures picked this up. If loaded with flares, it would've put on a good show! Apparently it can also do something return to sender. So unsure what that could be. Maybe we should fit these to our civi aircraft.:D

[P-air]

Would it be precarious trying to locate the source of the lasers by the crew.

If they get a few green flashes within thier cockpit, would it be better to try and shield ones eyes from the light, or safe enough to raise ones head above the dash and look for the source possibly exposing your eyes to direct contact with the laser.

[flyitboy]

I've seen these Pircks doing this stunt whilst going into Syd a few times before & I turn to the other guy in the seat next to me to say open bomb bay doors !
If they ever get caught I'll lay money down that they get a slap on the wrist, a fine & a suspended sentence 'cause their probably young kids!
The only trouble is they have to be caught in the act!


F

[an3_bolt]

Obviously these idiots are severly lacking in intelligence.

They probably have not given any thought to the fact one day they will need to fly on the very aircraft that they were shining lasers at - and someone might be doing the exact same thing to an aircraft they are on.

The world generally goes full circle - it is up to us to NOT let this happen and break the cycle - and require that authorities have appropriate penalties to prevent even the thought of an occurance. Current penalties are simply a joke to laugh at.

I wonder what would be done if this was Singapore?? You get arrested for even flying a kite surfer!! Maybe we need to bring some of the Singaporean law makers into this part of the world?

[Milt]

Let there be a UN declaration that high powered lasers are deadly weapons and their use against those controlling aircraft or transport vehicles be an act of Terrorism.

Go get them ASIO and throw away the key.

[Dixondik]

Call them WMDs and old mate from the U.S will be onto it like a 15 year old onto a bare boob.

[TurboOtter]

Took my kid to the Crusty show last night. Someone in the crowd was flashing a green l@zer around as we all tried to depart. Anyone cop a flash from Calder last night?


Awesome!! I'm going next month I think, can't wait:E:E

I've been hit by there "l@zers" Can't really see what all the fuss is about. yes it was distracting, but how many things in this world can distracting.

It you ask me you should ban all flashing lights at night, especially when it is raining:ok:

[Yusef Danet]

Otter, some can really dazzle and incapacitate pilots. I haven't been one but there are several reports of retinal (that's in the eye, not the other end) damage.

Frequently see people with lasers at Ben Buckler in Syd dancing them on the water below, every now and then they're going to try and plant a spot on a moving aircraft. I suspect that many mean no harm, they just don't make the connection with the harm they can cause.

Perhaps a law requiring lasers to be sold with a note warning that pointing at eyes can be harmful and that pointing at aircraft is a crime.

[Milt]

Otter where have you been hiding?

A medium powered laser can burn a hole in metal or cause your eyeball to explode. The beam of a high powered laser has been bounced off the moon.

The little ones often used as pointers are probably incapable of permanent eye damage but who is going to risk total blindness if your eye focusses the beam on to the retina. It could do its damage in one fleeting flash.

Lasers used in surgery can slice through tissue.

[Blip]

You have to ask why they are being sold to the public in the first place. What purpose could they possibly serve?

Perhaps like guns, you should have to apply for a licence first and state the reason for the purchase.

[PyroTek]

like the cigarette boxes with a picture of a downed aircraft? :ugh:

Yeah, I reckon many innocent people shine them at an aircraft in order to see if it will reach, others do it to be asses.

[jbr76]

From www.news.com.au

ASIO to take on laser attack epidemic

By Stephen Lunn
April 02, 2008 01:34am

ASIO, federal police and other key government agencies will hold urgent talks today to thrash out a strategy to tackle the growing epidemic of laser attacks on passenger jets at major Australian airports.

The top-level Canberra meeting will be urged to ban the sale of the high-powered lasers and push for even tougher penalties on people caught using the lights to disrupt flights.

The meeting, which will include officials from the Australian Customs Service, ASIO, the AFP, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, Air Services Australia and the federal Attorney-General and Transport Department, comes as the number of attacks increases, despite harsher penalties introduced last year.

Penalties were increased to two years' jail and fines of up to $30,000. But authorities have to date struggled to track down the culprits and are exploring new tracking technology to pinpoint the source of laser attacks.

Today's meeting has been called after six aircraft flying into Sydney airport last Friday night reported being targeted by lasers over a 15-minute period, a situation Air Services Australia spokesman Bryan Nicholson described as "the worst attack in our experience".

Transport Department figures show 325 incidents were reported last year, with at least the same level of activity continuing this year. Some laser lights are capable of reaching as far as 5km.

Federal Home Affairs Minister Bob Debus asked Australian Customs Service chief executive Michael Carmody to convene the meeting, bringing the key departments together in order to provide a report to him by Friday.

"I have asked Customs to hold a high-level meeting on the serious matter of laser lights being shone at aircraft," Mr Debus told The Australian.

"We've had the possibility of banning the importation of laser lights under review for some time, but last week's incident means the matter has now become urgent.

"This type of behaviour is stupid, dangerous and illegal, and could seriously endanger the lives of aircraft passengers.

"Just last year, fines of $30,000 and two-year jail terms were introduced for people who interfere with aircraft in this way. But if tougher penalties are needed, the Government is more than happy to consider them."

One of the problems with banning the importation of lasers is that many come in through the postal system after being ordered over the internet, and are difficult to detect in X-ray machines.

Mr Nicholson said last Friday's incident at Sydney airport was particularly dangerous because it appeared to be co-ordinated.

The problem has left pilots concerned for both their own and their passengers' safety.

Because of the difficulty in locating the source of the attacks, police have struggled to make arrests. In January, police in Sydney arrested a man with a 125milliwatt laser in his possession after two planes in the Merrylands area were targeted.

It is understood the AFP are developing new mapping techniques to pinpoint the sources of recent laser attacks.



Full link here: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23468660-421,00.html

[Teal]

April 2, 2008 - 1:23PM

A laser pointer has disrupted the flight path of another Sydney-bound plane overnight, police say.
At about 9.30pm (AEDT) on Tuesday police received reports of an infrared laser light being shone from the Bossley Park area at a plane believed to have been travelling from Cairns to Sydney's Kingsford Smith Airport.
The plane landed without incident and no one was injured.
Last Friday, six passenger planes were targeted, forcing the aircraft to alter their flight paths and delay their landings into Sydney.
The planes had to changed their flight paths into Sydney after pilots were targeted in a co-ordinated attack by four green lasers.
At the time authorities said the attack, which continued for 15 minutes, appeared to have originated in the Bexley area of south-western Sydney.
The federal government on Friday will receive recommendations on how to curb laser attacks on aeroplanes, Home Affairs Minister Bob Debus says.
A meeting of the Australian Customs Service, Australian Federal Police, ASIO and other government agencies is currently compiling suggestions for tougher restrictions on laser pointers.
Full report at this link:

http://news.theage.com.au/sydney-plane-targeted-with-laser-pointer/20080402-231m.html

[Islander Jock]

Being totally ignorant on lasers, are we talking about the pen size ones often used in seminars etc as a pointing device or items which are more powerful?

[Teal]

From this afternoon's crikey.com.au
Pointing the laser at airline safety

Ben Sandilands writes:

Today’s laser abuse summit in Canberra convened by Customs and attended by the AFP, ASIO, CASA, Airservices and the Attorney-General’s office faces much tougher issues than fools pointing bright beams of light at aircraft.
When former transport minister Mark Vaile grandstanded an amendment to the Civil Aviation and Aviation Transport Security Acts in Federal Parliament last year to supposedly toughen the laws against laser attacks, it resulted in penalties less severe than those for dropping rocks off overpasses onto cars and trucks.
The chances of any magistrate imposing Vaile’s breathlessly hyped maximum two-year jail penalty on an idiot who lasers a jet are about nil.
Yet it created federal laws that would override severe state laws like those of South Australia which provide for 14 years jail for affecting the safe operation of a flight, or life if the offence is proven to have been committed "with reckless indifference" to the safety of those onboard.
The lasers on open sale in stores and mailed into the country to online buyers are high tech flamethrowers. The most powerful of these freely available devices claim to be able to ignite cardboard at a range of 70 metres.
While CASA says there have been around 300 laser attacks on aircraft in Australia in the past year, there have also been numerous instances of lasers flicking across race horses, football players, and into the eyes of train, truck and car drivers.
These are often laser pointers like those used to bore people to death at Powerpoint presentations, or waved in the air at rave parties.
At short range, lasers can do even more harm to a truck driver than a pilot, because the fool pointing it could get a line of sight into the driver’s retinas at ranges where permanent blinding becomes possible.
In aircraft, the serious danger arises from dazzling reflections within the cockpit, temporarily blinding or distracting pilots at crucial moments when they need to monitor and adjust their speed, altitude, rate of descent, glide slope, drift and heading as they approach the runway.
If the laser idiot problem seems bad now, consider this: the known research and development programs into directed energy weapons worldwide tells us much worse is to come.
These programs also involve locking tightly focused microwave beams on battle ships, incoming missiles and infantry. Why bother trying to shoot an enemy combatant if you can set him and everything around him on fire? These programs seek the scaling down of super ray technology to the same portability as consumer lasers, and may replace the untidy consequences of tactical nuclear weapons in the arsenals of military powers and terrorists in the decades to come.
So whatever steps Australia takes to curb commercially available lasers, and punish laser waving idiots, needs to also encompass the directed energy devices that will follow lasers as sure as sunrise follows night.

[kalavo]

Appeared on tonight's news along with the penalties of 2 years jail or $30,000.

Bring back the death penalty.

[Razor]

Having been one of those targeted, I reckon that trying to hit a cockpit doing 120kts, 2000ft above you with a hand held laser is a lot of hit and miss. I was able to pick out exactly where they where between the to and fro of the beam. Biggest problem is them being caught red handed. The defence case used in reverse would be - how could he, whilst blinded by the laser, really be able to accurately name the building and the backyard that it came from.
Just remember that if I meet you one day you will remember the full force of my law. :mad:

[kalavo]

Just remember that if I meet you one day you will remember the full force of my law.

Two years in jail thanks to the courts or two years in hospital thanks to Razor?

[eye_in_the_sky]

< holds little finger up to side of mouth >

" Mini Me, Stop humping the laser. "

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Hope it doesn't come to this-

PRE-LANDING
1-l@zer safety glasses- ON

[Duff Man]

OZBUSDRIVER may be close to the mark when it comes to the future, sadly.

If we assume:

1. l@zers will be impossible to eliminate, especially from those intent on causing malicious disruption to aviation - criminal and terrorist elements. Publicity of the crime can exacerbate this problem.

2. There will always be ignorant morons getting their hands on l@zers after a few drinks, tagging clouds and jets, without regard to the consequences - ie, highway overpass rock-chuckers. Publicity of the crime's penalty can help this problem, but only to a limited degree - parents can lock away industrial l@zers, etc.

Then the only responsible course of action is defensive. In which case what practical options are available, PPRUNERS?

- Mandated AUTOLAND? Cost? Cat 3C ILS or equivalent GLS/GBAS fast-tracking & subsidy?

- Eyesight protection?

- Additional cockpit window lamination?

Surprisingly there's quite an extensive wikipedia entry on l@zers and aviation safety (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasers_and_aviation_safety) covering this subject.

[Centaurus]

One solution is to leave autopilot locked to the ILS until over the fence and keep your head down. Sounds a bit silly I know but better than risk being blinded.

[Milt]

We may find that this problem with laser attacks will grow exponentially.

Military boffins will have already developed counter measures having a capability of accurately locating the source of the laser beam and then taking it out.

Some of these systems fitted to a few aircraft may be necessary to preserve our way of life from terrorist attacks.

[fender]

I was hit in the eyes with a green laser a few months ago on final approach 16R Sydney.It was very powerful. Like those used at outdoor concerts.
I don't know if a pen type laser would be powerful enough to cause too much stress but needless to say, I have a good punishment to fit the crime.

[7x7]

Everyone is carefully avoiding saying what ethnic group the 'l@zer bandits' are most likely to belong to, but when you consider what part of Sydney they're operating from, it's a pretty fair bet they'll come from a (shall we say) predictable group.

One of the very senior captains at my company predicted that concerted, synchronised attacks like this might be launched in half a dozen countries on one particular day, with an aim of causing chaos to the whole air transport system. (I saw a copy of his submission to the company three or four yeas ago.) He suggested that the company should be proactive and prepare for such a threat and consider spending a small amount of money then by providing goggles in each aircraft so that ops could contine immediately after any such attack with some degree of safety for the pilots.

The company thought 600 dollars per aircraft for goggles was too expensive and said (correctly) that the goggles would be only marginally useful because they would only offer protection for a particular frequency.

I would have thought that goggles that protected against commercially available l@zers would have been money well spent, as the easiest way for the crazies to get their hands on such weapons is over the counter.

Just like box cutters....

[denabol]

Spoke to a copper, actually detective mate about this and he claims the attacks seem to cluster around expensive postcodes where people don't like jets flying overhead but forget about this on the regular flights for business.

Says they are from the same mind set that poisons tree in parks that get in the way of their views. Selfish, stupid morons with money in inverse quantities to their concerns about being responsible citizens, and so forth. Quite a diatribe, but I have a feeling he might be mainly right, since I had some involvement with fund raising for medical choppers which have also been lasered by wealthy f*wits who object to them flying over their quiet streets.

The bitterness directed at hospital medivac flights is totally over the top, and I think lasering a chopper could actually do some really serious harm.

[MTOW]

Late to this thread. What runway at SYD was in use when these attacks were mounted, 16 or 07? (ie, Drummoyne or Bexley? [=bored rich kids or... (edited to say) NOT bored rich kids?])

[denabol]

I didn't get a day and runway in use rundown, but I did get an earful about most of them coming from the Hills district, Epping, Five Dock, Drummoyne and that was about it. I would have expected the nasty little bastards obliquely referred to earlier in this thread might have chosen say Summer Hill or Newtown or somewhere close in. The helicopter incidents did include attacks quite close to inner city or eastern suburbs hospitals.

[missy]

As I understand it, RWY 07 was in use for arrivals.

With respect to lasers being pointed at medical helicopters, it is either part of an increasing trend or a direct result of the very noisy Bankstown based medical helicopters operating to the various hospitals in the Sydney basin. Rescue (callsign) helicopters are much noisier than the Lifesaver helicopters that they replaced.

Pity environmental considerations didn't feature more heavily in the deliberations when the NSW Government awarded the contract.

[Cap'n Arrr]

Nope. I don't buy that Missy. "Oh that helicopter rushing a critically injured patient to hospital is interfering with me hearing the script of Neighbours! Lets cause another accident!!!"

What's really a pity is that people can't simply deal with the fact that it's noisy in the city, especially so near airports, hospitals/fire stations/police stations, schools and any number of other venues.

The mere fact that you don't like the noise an aircraft generates does not entitle you to point a laser at it, or to do much at all about it. You want to live near an area with high air traffic, then deal with it. Put up with the noise, or move on out. "But we were here first!" BS.

I understand that you're trying to come up with reasons for it missy, and my annoyance (for lack of a better word, suggestions anyone?) is in no way directed at you, but theres even less excuse for endangering the safe operation of a MEDICAL TRANSPORT HELICOPTER than for a police chopper or a lightie, and theres less than no excuse to do either of those.

[ReverseFlight]

I was momentarily blinded by a green l@zer while tracking E of EN yesterday evening about 2000 LMT. Not sure of the exact location but in the area just due S of PLE. I immediately informed ML DEPs. If only I had time to circle over the site until the police arrived ...

Personally I think malicious interference with aircraft safety should be classified as terrorism and not just a crime.

[Scottzilla90]

Hi all,

I got l@zered tonight flying to Essendon from the south at about 9pm in a Chieftain. It came from somewhere south of cheltenham... CNR of Bluff RD and Eliza St I think (+/- 500m). I got a good look at them, reported it immediately to ML DEP and they scrambled the POLAIR chopper immediately....

The :mad:'ers also l@zered a REX Saab 340

I've got a headache and an eye cramp:ouch: why, oh why can't we do the freight run in a Tiger helicopter???

[teresa green]

It wasn't that long ago that some ratbag was using a 303 around Medowie near NTL as the aircraft flying overhead were upsetting his TV reception. A little visit from RAAF police along with state police ruined his night, and if fact he spent some time as Her Majesties guest. I put these maniacs in the same boat, but unfortunately not as easy to catch, as someone blasting away with a rifle. Perhaps some sort of a reflector that is attached to the A/C returns the beam to the source could be answer. If you could work out how to do that you would make a motza.:bored::confused:

[Wiley]

The only actual hit ever suffered by a RAAF Hercules from ground fire (at least in my day) was a .303 hole in the elevator of an A (or was it an E?) model doing circuits at Laverton.

The (today he'd be called a) 'terrorist' was a RAAF sergeant bluntie who objected to the noise interferring with his watching of the early 70's equivalent of 'Days of our Drearies', whatever that was.

Quite rightly he suffered the full force of the law, but you had to give him some credit for getting his lead angle almost right - a number of other people a rather long way north of Laverton and armed with weapons a bit more modern than the three-oh had the odd go at the Hercs over the years and never once scored a hit.

[psycho joe]

I can't help but wonder, if pilots were to arm themselves with these lasers and randomly zapped the suburbs from the cockpit on finals:E. ......These things would be banned within a month.



As these lasers aren't sharp you'd have no trouble getting them through security.:E

[VH-Cheer Up]

As these lasers aren't sharp you'd have no trouble getting them through security.

So long as you don't try to import them via the postal mail (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/31/2351052.htm?section=justin) where 1,200 of the blighters have been intercepted in the past few months.

[VH-Cheer Up]

Perhaps some sort of a reflector that is attached to the A/C returns the beam to the source could be answer. If you could work out how to do that you would make a motza.

Like photovoltaic cell sun-tracking technology... How hard could it be?

Anyone know how wide the beam is, typically, when pointed at an aircraft? Does it appear as a small dot, or more of a wash of light?

[Jabawocky]

Just heard about 6.30 QF540 was Lasered by a green laser about 20 miles out at 6000'.

Not sure exactly but I think on the 150 radial....

When will the feckwits give it up!

When they catch them they should be publically stoned or something more suitable. http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/fighting/fighting0038.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net)

This was no accident when the a/c was that far out and at 6000'.:mad:

J:ugh:

[Scottzilla90]

Thats where I got lasered on Friday night.... I bet its one of those "close essendon airport" protesters....

For info: when you get 'hit' with a laser it tends to show up as flashes of light scattering around and off aircraft parts. I noticed it reflecting off an engine cowl at 5000ft 16.5 DME ML on the 160 Radial. If you look at it you can trace the beam to origin.:8

[Jabawocky]

Sorry mate but you were 745 miles South.

Maybe I should hav been more specific....QF540's arrival into BNE.

J:ok:

[Scottzilla90]

OOPS... My Bad.... :uhoh:

[Colonel Kurtz]

They cannot zap you if they cannot see you. All external lights off, cabin dim. Silly game for silly little boys now over. A Melways reference is more useful to the police than radial/DME. I wonder how many little boys, especially those responsible for coordinated attacks, are from a common faith? Have names of of little boys caught, if any caught, been suppressed?

[lestump]

Here's an expensive thought: (pleae note my tongue firmly in my cheek). Equip all aircraft with laser-guided missiles, activated by and following the incoming laser attack from these little pri:}cks. A guy can dream can't he?

[Ando1Bar]

Seems like the wankers are at it again:


ATIS YBBN V 140928
APCH: EXP INSTRUMENT APCH
RWY: 01
SFC COND: WET
OPR INFO: UNAUTHORISED LASER ILLUMINATION EVENT
HAS BEEN REPORTED AT DECEPTION BAY BEARING 320
DEGREES BRISBANE AT 12 MILES
WND: 340/12
VIS: GT 10 KM
WX: SH IN AREA
CLD: FEW035
TMP: 19
+ QNH: 1019

[UglyOneOne]

cleraly shining it at the cockpit affects the pilots field of vision and therefore the plane...but shining it at the fuselage or empennage...does that make a differnece or affect it at all?

UOO

[ACMS]

ey? where did my post go?

Was it that bad?

And a genuine question about why there are ads for LASERS on this page.

And you remove it?

What the?

[ACMS]

Moderator: I have to ask why you removed my post when the 17 year olds post above mine was not also removed?

he is basically asking if it's ok to shine a LASER at an Aircraft as long as you don't point it into the cockpit area and blind the crew? isn't that what he's getting at?

Obviously if you point it at the fuselage it will have no effect but are you aiming that well at a fast moving object? can you guarantee you wont blind the crew by mistake?

He must be kidding us?

I reply to him asking if he owns one and you pull MY REPLY?

holy smokes is this communist China we are in or a vendetta against me?

[18-Wheeler]

Sod this, I'm going to get my own laser and point it back at them from my plane.

(maybe)