Ryanair Mumbai Base

[Obi Wan Kirk]

Just to let everyone know there is a rumour on the Ryanair REPA website indicating a 10% pay cut for Ryan Air pilots to cater for higher fuel prices and farming pilots out to Indian airlines in the Winter.

According to MOL by basing pilots in Mumbai (leased out to Indian airlines with a nice profit of 10Euros/hr for RYR per pilot) will actually result in a pay rise due to the low cost of living there.

So how many volunteers are there? They don't need to be any RYR employement contract state that for operational reasons the company can change your base with 7 days notice and the trasfer is at vthe pilots expense.

So the RYR pilots are up for a good curry!

[llondel]

Aren't you three days early with this one?

[Guttn]

Cutting costs at ANY cost - yet again :yuk:

[scrotometer]

so what's new? easy sent pilots to india last year.

[kick the tires]

Not quite, easy ASKED for volunteers to go to India.

About 40 showed interest and then when the T & C's became more obvious, all by a handful retracted their interest.

[fokkerplod]

dont recommend any crews opting for this as have been operating out there for a year and most of our crews get dengue fever in mumbai - and the monsoon is coming aka holding and very bad weather:}

[relax.jet]

unbelievable

[ri5]

I have heard about the rumoured 10% pay cut but I have heard nothing about India in the winter months.I think the pilots are paid too much as it is anyway so whats 10% between friends!;)

[ri5]

The cull has started.40 Ryanair Direct staff let go yesterday.Very sad to see.
http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=08&month=mar&story=gen-en-280308-2

[d71146]

I agree with the above post its very sad to see folk losing their jobs whatever their position is but I think myself its only just the beginning.
I sincerely would love to be proved wrong though I really do.

[ri5]

I fear us pilots will take the brunt of the slaughter.

[doniedarko]

Maybe after 3/4 years of doing quite well the contract pilots may start getting squeaky bum;) between o'leary and the taxman someone's bound to get em :ok:

[sky9]

The profitability of Ryanair depends on continual expansion and the sale and leaseback of aircraft; interesting times.

[brownstar]

very interesting that the rumours indicate this, i wonder if the adverts that are going out for pilots include this '10%' cut or is irrelevant, as the advertised salaries are well, shall we say, not available to all prospective employees( given that they will be on contract employment and not directly employed by the company, allegedly ).

[FanOn]

Hey Fokkerplod,

It would be a great idea to go during the monsoon, wouldn’t it?

One of the other threads said you can’t fly without a monsoon check and that the DGCA is bl**dy slow. No monsoon check, no fly. No fly, just collect pay cheque, free accommodation, go to bar. (Occasionally watch Kingfisher hostee walking past…. dream of her stopping).

[Jetset320]

Nice thought, however monsoon season starts 1st June and last some months (summer), but the rumour states winter.

[lexoncd]

Pure Ryanair spin to take advantage of these people loosing their jobs.

Ok say 40 staff average salary euro 24,000 with a 60% saving equates to 576,000 euro saving less of course the increased call costs to link India and the cost of moving the operation. In the light of ho hedging on fuel prices where they have gone from usd65 a barrel to usd107 which will add at least EURO 370 million to their costs this is a smokescreen.....

[John Giles]

The redundancies are just the start..

Everyone expects a pay cut now..they won't be dissapointed..

[Nick NOTOC]

Hi Guy's

I heard a rumer today.

During the winter season when the work is rather low at FR MOL is goin to be based with a 10% paycut in Mumbai, given the cost of living there it is actually a pay rise and his 10% will be equally divided between all FR pilot's, which in effect means all will get a pay rise of 4% during the winter.....

My wife woke me up as I was covered in a swet, "did you have a bad dream" she asked me.
"No I almost thought about changing to Ryanair and MOL was leaving to India".

Nick "the dreamer" Notoc

[757_Driver]

The profitability of Ryanair depends on continual expansion and the sale and leaseback of aircraft; interesting times.

I'm not sure if you are correct on the details, however you are not the only one to make a suggestion that ryanairs profitibabilty, indeed their entire business model, only works in an expansionist business.
More than one analyst and bank has suggested that in a static, or retracting business the model just doesn't work.
Hmmmm.

As a slight thread drift, I find it interesting that after a decade or so of people like Gordon Brown, MOL, willie walsh and many many banks telling us that modern business needed a different approach and spouting loads of trite MBA ballcocks and telling us that we didn't understand these things, that all their ideas and actions are fast unravelling and reminding us that business concepts and fundamentals are no different to that which it always was.
T5 has shown BA that cheap-cheap is always more expensive in the long run, and I think MO'L is about to learn the same lesson.
However It's not good for the rest of us if hundreds of Ryanair pilots are dumped on the job market.

[chrisbl]

Ryanair is the airline equivilent of Northern Rock.

It will be more than a few jobs to go.

[JOE MAXY]

And start with the senior management,Millerlite...or whoever is paid hundreds of thousands and responsible for not hedging fuel and indirectly costing the company hundreds of millions in a serious error of judgement.

Management and the men or women who make monumental ****ups should be held accountable just like the pilots and cabin crew are if they do so...or more importantly they could start cutting back on the waste of paint(and the cost involved) that they splash across their lovely jets with indignant and degrading remarks.

Or how about the millions spent on their failed bid for Aer lingus and the cost involved with acquiring 29.4% of said company..Or more importantly if the COMPANY stops provoking employees,customers,heads of state .....(fill in as applicable) think of the millions that could be saved in legal fee's...for its well known the best paid employees in ryanair are its lawyers.

[Sallyann1234]

Ryanair is the airline equivilent of Northern Rock.

Really? Northern Rock was taken over by the UK government. Which government will bail out Ryanair?

[RAT 5]

Is it that RYR might send pilots to India, or send pilots and a/c. If only pilots, or if he lays off some crews, what's to happen to all those shiny new a/c he has spewing of the Boeing production line? I heard he tried before to delay deliveries and that Boeing said he could delay delivery but not payment.

And what about all those wonder kids arriving by the bus load at the various TRTO's, dolling out their dosh for a type rating. Is that training to be suspended too?

There are much more latent details yet to be revealed. They are all linked
together and dumping a few crews in the sub-continent by itself will not solve anything.

[Sunfish]

The problem with the Ryanair business model is that it is a variant of an old game played in manufacturing industry. That's the "I will price my product at cost and wait for everyone else to go broke, then I'll raise my prices and clean up" model.

It is a very very dangerous business strategy to have one part of your business cross subsidising another part of it, yet it appears to this simple person that this is exactly what Ryanair has done - selling the flight for next to nothing and then making your profit on all the add-ons and peripheral charges (food, drink, baggage, car hire, etc.).

It's dangerous because such a model is very sensitive to changes in volume, as well as consumers "learning" cheaper behaviour, taking the cheap product and avoiding the expensive "extra's".

It would appear the stock market agrees.

Or there is the old Jewish saying "If you give your product away for free you will have lots of customers."

[BALLSOUT]

As expected, more FR bashing. some folk seem to spend their lives looking at yet another angle to have a go. I would suggest that any of you wishing the worst on Ryanair, if you are actualy employed in European aviation, beware!
Ryanair is a massive company, it has huge cash reserves. If things were to go the way some of you are predicting, it would spend its reserves on the long predicted bloodbath. I think many companies would fail and thousands of jobs would be lost before you would see the demise of Ryanair.
Who would be the ones to gain?
Be carefull what you wish for!

[saccade]

BALLSOUT, Ryanair is in comparison to other airlines in a bad position for 2008 because they are one of the few unprotected against $100+ oil, that's why this year will be a difficult for them, own mistake. But that is not what this is about.

Aviation as a whole suffers because the availability of cheap oil is crucial. Over the next years, as hedging contracts expire, all airlines will be facing the reality of expensive oil. There is no sign whatsoever that the price will stabilize at $120, or even $200-$300. And algae oil costs $800 p/b... The airlines that will survive are the ones that manage to change their business models in order to cope with these prices. From roughly $200 oil, low cost air travel will basically stop. The fuel bill will be in the region of 75-80 % of all costs for FR, so any saving will be a drop in the ocean. There will still be demand for efficient point to point travel, but the ability to compete on price diminishes. And that's why FR might have a problem.

[Sunfish]

"Ryanair has huge cash reserves" where have I heard that before?

[jiffajaffa]

This isnt just going to affect RYR its going to affect every airline! people are still going to want to fly! and the demand will still be there! regardless of oil prices!

[BALLSOUT]

Saccade, I agree with what you say. However, if the price of oil goes up that much there will be few airlines survive. air travel will again be for the wealthy, and many pilots, cabin crew, engineers etc will be out of work.
I don't see it anytime soon, despite the doom mongers.

[fireflybob]

How do you know the oil prices won't come down again?

[thirtysomething]

Oil prices wont come down again because China will more than make up for the shortfall in demand / OPEC doesnt see any reason to reduce its profits etc. What will really leave ryanair up the creak though is the weak pound. Soon Micko will be stetched way to far. The bigger the ego the harder the fall.

[beachbumflyer]

I think I´m going to short the stock.

[jackharr]

Is it true that Lewis Hamilton is being employed by Ryanair on a consultancy basis to advise on "improving efficiency between the Gate and the Runway"?

Jack 2008-04-01

[RAT 5]

30 something:

RYR is a euro-based company being based in Eire.

A point that no financial analyst has mentioned. In 2003/4 when oil started to drift upwards the euro/U$ rate was about 1.05. Oil went from 30U$pb to 60/70U$ pb. There was a slight panic, but nohting like 1975 when oil doubled in price. That caused an avaiation downturn lasting 7 years.
Now oil is 100U$pb, but the euro/U$ rate is 1.50. Thus the euro price for oil is still the same as it was in 2004. So why all the panic that euroairlines are up against the wall. It seems to be scare mongering to be able to add fuel surcharges that are not really justified. USA airlines might be feeling the pinch, but euro based airlines, who had hedged fuel at 65U$pb are IMHO crying wolf. Their euro price has not changed that much; or am I missing something. The same is true for GBP v U$. The pound is only down against euro not U$.

[sitigeltfel]

Surely the salaries of the Telesales staff at Dublin were more than covered by the gouging, premium rate, phone charges?

[top jock]

He wants rid of them and thats all there is to it. He has this as an excuse. When he wants to jet off somewhere he will still take an aircraft and fly off to where ever he wants to go with just him and a PR person onboard to announce new routes. Now there is a waste of money.

[saccade]

Guess we're a bit off topic, but this is in the news today,

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/columnists/article3662046.ece

"The New Model Airline is getting a bit frilly, but the emerging strategy of “make the punter pay” will work only if capacity is drained from Europe's overcrowded skies. That requires more airline bankruptcies. The only alternative is a return to very cheap fuel and the odds must be better on the former than on the latter."

[His dudeness]

Also slighty off topic, but I can´t stop wondering:

about any german company that has a callcenter has outsourced to it IRELAND.

And MOL says:
Our existing Romanian and German call centres will continue to provide telesales services at 60% lower costs than Ryanair Direct.

Why do I think it does not add up?

[thirtysomething]

Rat 5.

Oil is just " pulling back " its decline coincides with money moving into the market over the last few days but soon it will be a both a speculative instrument / in demand again. Today the uptrend in oil continued rising 4% ( the fact is the Americans are not using less but more as inventory figures in the US show american reserves are dwindling again . Soon the " admnistration " will be pleading with OPEC once more .

The dollar has not weakened at the same pace as oil has increased so to say that oil is as cheap as ever in euro land is wrong. Especially over the last 3 years where MOL has made his best money. He c***ed it up when he did not hedge and now he cant.

Furthermore with the ECB unable to cut rates due to inflation and the BOE being able to do so in the near term its likely that the pound will weaken further against the euro , the BOE have hinted at being happy with 1.20 euros to the pound calling the current downtrend of the pound a " welcome correction ". A weak pound has traditionally been a problem for Irish exporters.

MOL called it a perfect storm for his business when it wasnt looking as grim. He will probably prance around like a schoolboy if Alitalia goes belly up but many of the mainline carriers he talks about going pop are cash rich and hedged.

[desertopsguy]

For those who feel they might be laid off any time soon, perhaps they should start looking eastwards before the stampede starts from the US.

Airlines in the middle east are still hiring and growing and their need for pilots still seems to be there, even amongst the smaller players. The biz-jet market is booming and in UAE especially there are dozens of outfits to apply to even if you exclude EY/EK.

CEO's of majors incl NW, Singapore and BA, at the recent IATA conference in IST have all said that there has never been a more uncertain time in global aviation and one has said that the conditions are right for a 'perfect storm'

Let's hope they're all wrong..

[B737NG]

The DGCA wants Indian Pilots in the Cockpit, not Expats. The Validation will be difficult to get especially for F´/O´s now. 31.July 2010 no Expat in India is the plan....

Fly safe and land happy

NG