747-300...more problems

[topend3]

Qantas jet in SA makes emergency landing
Saturday Mar 29 18:45 AEDT
A crack in the external window of a Qantas jet caused an emergency landing at Adelaide airport on Saturday afternoon.

A Boeing 747 flying from Perth to Sydney was forced to make the unscheduled landing when the window "popped", a passenger said.

"A window in the business class section popped mid-air," said the passenger, who did not want to give his name.

"The pilot got people to sit down and fasten their seat belts and assured passengers later on that they (the windows) were triple strength and the plane was being diverted just to be on the safe side."




The passenger said the plane landed safely in Adelaide where it was met on the tarmac by a full suite of emergency service vehicles, but that no one had been injured.

Qantas confirmed the reports of the unplanned landing, saying the diversion to Adelaide was merely "a precaution".

"The plane was diverted to Adelaide as a precaution due to a suspected crack in an external window panel," a Qantas spokeswoman said.

"Engineers are inspecting the aircraft in Adelaide."

She said passengers would be accommodated on another aircraft leaving Adelaide this evening.

It was the latest in a string of mechanical problems or gear failure incidents which have beset Qantas planes this year.

On January 7, a Qantas Boeing 747 carrying more than 300 people lost power while approaching Bangkok.

On February 20, a plane's landing gear failed on a Qantas flight from Gladstone to Rockhampton in Queensland.

Then on March 25, an international Qantas flight carrying 232 passengers was forced to abort its takeoff at Los Angeles.

In July last year, The Australian newspaper reported that staples were used to hold wiring in place on a Qantas 747-400.

This came days after a tyre burst on a Qantas plane landing at Sydney domestic airport, and an engine panel fell from QF415 upon landing at Melbourne.

******************************

[blow.n.gasket]

But there is absolutely, positively, no problems with the outsourcing of maintenance at Qantas!
As for spare parts, who needs 'em, they only cost money and clutter up warehouses don't they!
I'm just waiting for management to suggest a nostalgia surcharge for riding on Qantas Classic jumbo's and the 767's .:{

[Jabawocky]

BYO Duct Tape and Cable ties.........:E

[Capt Wally]

hey jaba I believe that the skipper got the senior hosty to tape his wallet against the suspect window, there's noway that such a large object could get thu should have the window gone beyond 'pop' !!!:)

me thinks that window seats are over rated anyway, why not remove all the windows anyway & save weight, they could hand out extra blankets for the cold air, for a fee of course!:)



CW

[U.K. SUBS.]

And maybe last but not least those staples for emergency exit lighting:E:E. Afterall these are top tier mro's that we outsource to.:yuk::yuk:

[Jabawocky]

CW

Just like 89 hey!:ok:

Load em into freighters.....sorry Herc's and bou's!

J:ok:

who mentioned the war.......into my bunker!

[Capt Wally]

hahaha so true Jaba:ok: WW3, lest we forget!



CW

[QFcaptain]

"hey jaba I believe that the skipper got the senior hosty to tape his wallet against the suspect window, there's noway that such a large object could get thu should have the window gone beyond 'pop' !!!"

Is that why I'm leaving to EK wally?:hmm:

[PyroTek]

christ!
I think qantas' idea of outsourcing maintenance was possibly their stupidest idea yet!

[Jabawocky]

With all due respect Pyro, you are a 17 yr old student pilot, and I am not much closer to the QF coal face, so what would you know...or me either for that matter.


But I think no truer words have been said!:D

And many at the big Q would agree.

J:ok:

[PyroTek]

i think what i said was more stating the obvious...

I reckon its either from outsourcing maintenance, or a large part of their fleet is ageing (sp?), causing defects coming from worn out parts... (after thinking about it a bit more)'

(I may be a 17 year old student pilot, but that can't stop me from doing my research in my spare time, even before I got my SPL, after all, my ambition in life from about 4 years old to 15 years old was to work for Qantas. Then I saw that there is more to airlines than Qantas, so I now keep an open mind.)

[kingRB]

I live right under the approach for 23 and was wondering why I saw a QF classic go over today - never normally see them here.

Now I know :ok:

[merlinxx]

17 years a student pilot, better get yr SPL in the next 5 yrs for a job afore get yer bus pass!!!

[Capt Wally]

qfskip if yr wallet won't stem the tide of rushing air then your obviously older than i thought & are struggling under the weight of 4 ex wives !:E

So what's in the EK for you?



CW

[Tempo]

"outsourcing maintenance"....blahblahblah....how about the simple fact that S#*t happens from time to time.

[gaunty]

The usual lazy journalism, a par that would not normally make more than a couple of collumn centimeters at best is fluffed up by cutting and pasting the last 100 years of (insert airline concerned name here) of incidents. I'm surprised we didn't get a reprise of Bangkok # 1 and #2 and the loss of one of their Constellations on Mauritius.:sad::eek::rolleyes:

[Kangaroo Court]

Mr Gaunty,

We just did!

[Jabawocky]

Kangaroo

We just did what, ran a 744 off a wet runway, another blackout (that hour was for houses and Industry ya know).

I hope you meant some other event than an incident.

J

[Kangaroo Court]

Mentioning a past event at all is a reprise of it; we need a reprieve.

[mmmbop]

Tempo,


How about the simple fact that QF management are neglecting the 'premium airline' in favour of the low cost crap???

Yes, sh1t does happen, but when management neglect the fleet as they are doing now on the 743, 744 and 767s, then it happens a lot more frequently. Yes, it was just an outer window so really no big deal. But its just the miniscule tip of the iceberg. When a serious incident occurs in QF Mainline in the future, investigators will look back and go "Oh wow, look at the holes lining up in the swiss cheese!" Obvious to everyone it seems, but management.

WHEN something does happen, it of course wont affect GD cause he will be long gone.

M

[PIOT Bord]

It is true, **** does happen, but it's happening a lot lately. Why? Because Qantas Management is running Qantas Engineering into the ground. Lets hope one of their aircraft don't follow.

How is Qantas Engineering Management doing this? Assuming that they are not totally inept, the plan that they are following includes:-

1) Outsourcing maintenance / only paying for the bare minimum to be done.
2) Banning training / not allowing those that do training (in their own time, with their own money) to use it.
3) No pay rise for LAME's for more than 2 years / not competitve in market place = under-staffed.
4) Insufficient ground time to carry out required maintenance when A/C do have a maintenance period.
5) Insufficient parts to repair the A/C when something fails / MEL lists now reading like a novel.
6) A management team that has no / v. little aviation experience.

Is that why they flew in an LAME from SYD to repair the aircraft's broken window in ADL only to find that he wasn't even licenced on the aircraft? Better fly in an another LAME from MEL to sign off his work! On second thoughts, maybe they are inept!!!

[Razor]

You take enough meat off the bones and the skeleton will collapse. I tip my hat everyday to my engr colleges who are working hard through trying times. Just remember no amount of hand ringing after an event (by management trying to pass the buck) will replace timely and thorough effort before I fly. Our engrs are gold and should be treated as such. Give them the resources and not make them the scapegoats.

[Alex 009]

What is the latest with these old birds? Do QF have a retirement date for them yet. I have to head to Perth later on in the year and already the Qantas website is showing more A330 services (200s and 300s) flying from Sydney (towards the end of the year at least).

[Going Boeing]

Do QF have a retirement date for them yet.

There are 4 currently flying and the plan is to retire 2 of them mid year with the last 2 going in December. The simulator is also planned to go mid year as they need the bay for a Dash8-Q300 sim. The Perth ops will be interesting as it requires 2 A332's to replace the 455 seat B743's and as bays are a premium at the domestic terminal, things are only going to get worse.

[flightidleflat]

WAC has poured a whole new slab of asphalt across the way from natjet/helicopters australia for the exclusive use of Qantas. All the bays are marked for A330's and 743's. Will be interesting to see how they use it, and if they'll have the same trouble getting on bays like the rest of the Perth operators?????

[dreamjob]

Will be interesting to see 300+ pax walking across the apron/taxiway from these new bays to the domestic terminal.......

Unless they'll be used just for parking and will be towed to the aerobridges for boarding.

[flightidleflat]

Just for parking.

Could make for a bit of fun for the GA/nat jet/skippers guys though, dodging 300+ punters!

[stubby jumbo]

'went to PER and back on the 743 on the weekend.

This AC was great going to LHR etc in the late 80's/90's.

But unfortunately now.... its a shadow of its former self and is clapped out and very,very tired.

The CCL is chock ablock with HOLD items , the galleys leak, dunnies stink, seats are broken and the carpet threadbare in high wear spots.

If you were a paying punter in Y/C you must be thinking you're on a Pan Am 1970's bus.

Shame on you QF management-the contempt you show for hardworking staff and pax is appalling.:mad: :rolleyes:

[Alex 009]

'went to PER and back on the 743 on the weekend.

This AC was great going to LHR etc in the late 80's/90's


The last time I had the pleasure of a 743 was Rome-Singapore back in 2000 (before anyone comments on my age I was 12 back then). From what I can remember even 8 years ago it was very tired looking inside, and if im correct the 743 fleet had the cabin upgrade a few years back. By the way will we see the return of 'Nalanji Dreaming' onto any of the QF fleet (last seen on VH-EBU).

[aulglarse]

ALEX, It's sitting very very idly at Avalon with no engines.

There could be a new owner for the old clunker sometime soon.:D

[lowerlobe]

There could be a new owner for the old clunker sometime soon.
.....Do you mean Comalco?
I sincerely hope that it goes to a museum somewhere like LongReach instead of ending up at a bottle shop in the form of 6 packs.

[ANstar]

All 743 has been removed from the QF sched from 4 JAN

[PPRuNeUser0182]

Hey EBU would look great at Longreach with its all over aqua blue coat, no engines, no control surfaces :( sad.

Charlie

[lowerlobe]

I think it would look great at the museum in Longreach but you have a point there about some essential parts missing.

How would they get it there?

Perhaps they should start an aviation museum at Avalon....

[Jabawocky]

And the dills wasted more money on covering up the piece of artwork! :ugh:

Colourful coke cans for that old girl, can't be too many parts worth picking of it is there?

J

[MelbPilot85]

will we see the return of 'Nalanji Dreaming' onto any of the QF fleet (last seen on VH-EBU).

I think Alex was asking if the scheme would be painted onto another aircraft, not whether VH-EBU would fly again, as we all know the fate awaiting that particular aircraft.....

[aulglarse]

I hear EBU may be used for security training. BANG! Now that should pop some windows!;):oh:

[Ref + 10]

Was wondering if this thread still has some life to it.

In the midst of moving house today I saw 4 -300's take off in the space of maybe 4 hours. Correct me if I'm wrong please but they are used exclusively on the PH-SY/ML routes are they not?

Was there some type of problem that required flight testing or did they both have problems out of PH?

Just seemed strange to see 4 (apparent) departures...

[Thermal]

An AMCI operator might pick them up and get a few more years out of them before they go to the scrap yard or to a museum!

[Buster Hyman]

Just wait to here the punters whining when they get put on the LAX run!!!!

[Jabawocky]

Not sure they have 4 operational at any one time....... circuit training perhaps!:}

J:E

[lowerlobe]

Just wait to here the punters whining when they get put on the LAX run!!!!
....Now that would be a good way to compete with V Australia on the LA run....

[Sogi]

4 a day on some days in the space of a few hours. They're currently operating the PER-SIN-PER route in the afternoons.

[Buster Hyman]

4 a day on some days in the space of a few hours
RFF's????:eek:

[Continental-520]

Another one of these clapped out dinosaurs had some sort of issue on its way into Perth yesterday (Hydraulic, possibly?) as it held over Rottnest Island for ages and the crew advised that the landing roll would be 'longer than usual'.

Funny how these sorts of things happen when the runway has a reduced length due to MAE/Rwy works....


520.

[woftam]

Yet another fantastic decision by the "Management" to spend a fortune tarting up these once great machines instead of investing in a few "old technology" B777's. :ugh:
As long as the bonuses keep rolling in who cares what's really happening at the coalface!!! :(

[lowerlobe]

.....And in the end it is the customer who has to pay for those decisions...

No wonder they are worried about SIA and others .....

[Ref + 10]

Sogi, not four departures in a few hours out of PH. Four per day only with gaps of 10 or so hours. Subsequently found out that one of them had a flap fault. That would account for an extra departure and fuel dumping off Rottnest.

[Pluto's gone]

Ok smart arse time.

4 departures per day 10 or so hours apart, ferk I thought days seemed long, the new 40 hour day. Now that would make for some intereseting duty time issues? :p.

[Sogi]

Ref + 10 said : Sogi, not four departures in a few hours out of PH. Four per day only with gaps of 10 or so hours. Subsequently found out that one of them had a flap fault. That would account for an extra departure and fuel dumping off Rottnest.


Yes, 4 departures in the space of about 4-5 hours on some days. Syd-1145, Mel-1300, Sin-1540, Syd-1615. That would make it 6 departures on some days with the 2 red eye flights.

[Flight Detent]

I cannot understand all the bad-faith talk about the -300s, as far as I am concerned, they are the best configuration 747 ever produced.

I for one would prefer to fly to LA or back in a 747-300, assuming, and this is where the problem is, that the airplane is properly maintained.

As for the quote of "clapped-out", that person has obviously has not flown for an overseas operator that keeps its airplanes, shall we say, "on the edge of reasonable serviceability".

I am, and will continue to be, a person whom enjoys the additional comfort of knowing there is less computing and more people (read Flight Engineer), on board my airplane, and I mean anytime I fly!

Unfortunately, the -300 didn't get into full production numbers and the -400 model arrived with all that talk about costing less to run (incl. less crew!) and more reliability, and at that time everybody believed it.
But it wasn't long before, after paying out huge replacement costs, they found that the -300 was, in fact, a better overall package.

And as far as I'm concerned, from the point I mentioned earlier, it still is!

Having flown quite a lot of Classic 747 hours, (-100, -200, -300, SP) I don't feel all that comfortable not being able to see what's going on up the front, with only the two pilots taking care of things!

That's my experience...

Cheers...FD...:uhoh:

[call button]

Hmmmm FD,

I bet those old toilets (ie non vacuum) smell just terrific after 10hrs or so!

[indamiddle]

can anyone confirm/deny they are on the FCO charters next roster?

[ruprecht]

Yes, they are on the "Catholic Hajj":)

ruprecht.

[gaunty]

Buster mate


Just wait to here the punters whining when they get put on the LAX run!!!!


Nah found that's a superb waste of time, just vote with your feet. I'm currently using an all 777 carrier for the long haul and fortunately dont have to use the Pacific route to the US.
I used to think the 744 was pretty good but how old are the current ones in QF service? Step off a 777 J class and onto a 744 J class and then tell me why Boing went that way, they are a world apart.

Mind you for $999 return across the Pacific, if thats what it means, how dare they complain. :{

Across Oz, they might be a bit quicker but the large numbers of pax make it less friendly if that was possible, and the intreriors are daggy beyond belief. On balance 737-800 or the A330-300 is the preference. We did have the luxury of the A330 out of Perth for a while which was a treat.

Having said that the American MD80 I had the pleasure of across most of the US the other night was older than methuseleh and I'm sure that whilst the 1st Class seats were leather they came as original issue. They still go like a rocket. American have over 400 of them and they have carried that airline through thick and thin. They always were a Douglas airline and these are the last of the Mohicans.

[Buster Hyman]

Gaunty. Didn't QF get a bunch of new build 400's, LR versions perhaps? I thought they were using them on the MEL-LAX run because of the longer legs...:confused: Happy to be corrected (I was wrong once before)

[Taildragger67]

Buster,

The ERs have been spotted at EGLL from time to time so they are clearly not solely restricted to trans-Pacs.

According to the QF website fleet page (http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/inTheAir/ourAircraft/seatMap744), there are currently 8 (:eek:) 744 configs (including the ERs) - two being due to the addition of Premium Economy. I pity the poor F/As having to study EPs...

Anyway... -OJA was delivered in August 1989. The seat maps would suggest -OJA-D, F I and J are 2-class so might be doing mainly Saffie runs (where there's no competition).

In any case an airframe is just that - a frame. (As long as the floor will take it :hmm:) you can put anything you like inside so a 20-year-old 744 can look damn near as good inside as a straight-off-the-line 777. There might be a few architectural differences (eg. how the OHBs & PSUs look) but in terms of seating, as long as it fits the tracks & doesn't overload the electrics, away you go. BA were running relatively modern P-cls on their Classics into 2003; their original 777s are still going strong and getting updated (less two airframes)

[Buster Hyman]

Which would stand to reason TD, as the MEL-LAX direct service was dropped IIRC. ;)(Not suggesting that was the sole reason for their purchase of course!)

[Transition Layer]

Buster,

MEL-LAX-MEL direct still operates daily, and the -400ER is the only aircraft that does them. It's a bloody long way, especially westbound. I think there's 6 of the ERs, built from about 2002 onwards.

Taildragger,

The 2 class aircraft mainly do Frankfurt and LAX-Brisbane and LAX-Auckland. Joburg is operated by 3-class RR aircraft (generally speaking). Always subject to change of course, the way things are with QF maintenance (management not the ginger beers)!!!

Hope it clears some of it up for you.

[Buster Hyman]

I stand corrected!:ok: (That's twice now I think...)

[Continental-520]

Hey, fair point on the technological differences etc, and I'm all for the conventional equipment over the fly by wire anyday, BUT,

if there is substance to your claim, why aren't all the major carriers in the world parking all their 737NG, 747-400s, newer 767s and 777s and instead getting their hands on some crusty 747-300s, since they are after all *SO* nice to travel in?

No disrespect but I think I would rather travel in a Tristar before I travel in a B743, particularly a QF one. Ugh.

It strikes me that your viewpoint may be from an engineering point of view more than overall comfort/product/passenger point of view.... (?)


520.

[Skystar320]

Ahhh give me classic's anyday..... [I would fly in QF's 747-300's though not at the moment]

Anyone remember flying in AN's 747-300's now they were beautiful aircraft to fly in.....


I remember in an Air Mauritius 767 flying out of Mauritius on empty [For lowerlobe interest I was in the jumpseat]

With the CFM engines, really light - the roar of the engines we just shot up into the sky doing something like 18degree climb....

[lowerlobe]

Skystar320......

Ahhemmm......You were a pilot with Air Mauritius ????????????

[Skystar320]

Nope / sitting in the jump seat...............

[Buster Hyman]

Longest 767 sector was MEL-MRU using ETOPS (obviously) about 14hours from memory.....:bored:


(See...my head is full of useless SHlT like that...):(

[Skystar320]

thread drift.........

Didnt they also do MRU - PER - MEL until they went direct?

[Buster Hyman]

Yes, they did. But the direct was more fun....

[B A Lert]

Hello Buster. The Rat may give MK a run for its money when it operated Perth-Narita with B767-200's. They did not operate a GC route but a dog leg overhead Bali and Manila. - a tightish operation.

[Taildragger67]

Transition Layer,

What Buster said earlier. :ok: Thanks

Buster,

I think that when the 6 ERs were ordered back in 2000 or early-2001, the idea was to use them for direct DFWs, the idea being to link in with AA's main hub and provide better connections to AA's US network than that available through LAX. I think (though clearly not sure) that there was also some noise about trying direct ORDs for similar reasons.

[Buster Hyman]

Gawd bless the planning Dept. eh? Luckily, there's always a use for a 747 with long legs!

I'm sure the people that think up these ideas are generally on the ball, but the ones we had at AN doing the INTL routes had NFI!!! The only, ONLY, INTL route winner all round was the BOC Bali flights, and that was really a glorified Domestic operation. The rest of their planned routes sent us (contributed) to an early grave!:mad: