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basementjaxx
25th Mar 2008, 10:25
Tuesday Mar 25 21:09 AEDT - ninemsn.com.au

An official at Los Angeles International Airport says an Australia-bound Qantas jet carrying hundreds of passengers blew four tyres while trying to take off and got stranded on the runway.

Airport spokeswoman Treva Miller says none of the 232 passengers or crew on Qantas Flight 12 to Sydney was hurt in the incident.

Flight operations at the airport were not expected to be affected.

Miller says the pilot aborted takeoff after he noticed a warning light go off as he took the Boeing 747-400 down the runway at 11.05pm (1705 AEDT).

The plane came to rest, stuck on an adjacent runway.

Emergency personnel got everyone off the jet without incident.

The passengers were taken to hotels and would be placed on flights to Sydney later today, a Qantas official said.

:uhoh:
-----

bj

G-ZUZZ
25th Mar 2008, 16:28
BJ did you write that yourself? Even the imbeciles at the Sydney Morning Bluddy Herald made slightly more sense than that in their version.

blew four tyres while trying to take off

I suspect this twit would have discovered, had she switched her brain on, that the aircraft tyres were deflated as a result of the aircraft stopping, not taking off. Likely they deflated after it had stopped and the brake temps rose, causing the fuse plugs to melt. As they are designed to do.

the pilot aborted takeoff after he noticed a warning light go off

:rolleyes:

The plane came to rest....on an adjacent runway.

How did it manage that? Just remember garbage like this when you read other reports of events or people in the media. If you believe what you read in the papers or see on the TV you need your head read.

And most importantly:

Airport spokeswoman Treva Miller

Who the hell would name their child "Treva"?????????

Left Coaster
25th Mar 2008, 18:32
Dontcha just love the press? Watching the report(s) here in LA and chuckling away. News people here reporting that pax were "evacuated" safely with no injuries...does that mean they blew slides? The tire issue is being reported as the "cause" of the reject along with a "check engine light"...! When did QF start using automobile products on their jets? :\

Capt_SNAFU
25th Mar 2008, 20:02
The real question is from an operational POV, especially given all the focus on RTOs at the moment is whether the correct procedure was followed? To blow tyres most likely would have been a reject above 80kts and above that the reasons for an RTO are much more limited than prior to 80kts. Tyres did their job and no one was injured.

Ron & Edna Johns
25th Mar 2008, 21:34
This is a hillarious version from www.news.com.au (http://www.news.com.au) this morning! Onya Evelyn - you managed to find and quote the missing village idiot. "Nose of the plane had already lifted off the ground"... riiiight. I know, I know, I really shouldn't point out journos continual failings but it's actually entertaining reading this waffle! (my editorial comments added for amusement)

Qantas terror on the runway

By Evelyn Yamine March 26, 2008 06:39am
Qantas jet stopped during mid take-off
Impact blows jet's four tyres
Screams of frightened passengers 'filled the air'PASSENGERS on board a Qantas flight bound for Sydney last night told of their terror after the take-off was abandoned at high speed following a "cockpit alert".


The 217 passengers on board Qantas Flight 12 were given no warning the jet had to be stopped mid take-off from Los Angeles airport, with the impact blowing out the Boeing four 747's tyres. (Boeing four 747? Or 4747? Or four tyres? Or all 18 tyres?)

Many passengers were thrown forward in their seats after being caught unawares by the pilot's sudden actions. (but many weren't, since they were wearing the optional shoulder strap, available for an extra $100)

The pilot was forced to abort the take-off at 5pm (AEST) when a warning light illuminated.

The nose of the plane had already lifted off the ground and passengers were heavily jostled as it hit the tarmac at full speed. (Priceless. As many of us know, if that had really happened this jet would have ended up in the Pacific)

Screams

Passenger Samantha Thomas last night told The Daily Telegraph the screams of frightened passengers filled the aircraft while others were thrown forward into seats. (so the optional shoulder strap is not a good idea afterall - causes you to scream. Far better to be thrown forward instead)

"It started to take off and everything was fine. The nose of the plane was actually lifted up and we were going at full speed when suddenly the pilot slammed on the brakes," she said. (No. It wasn't. Please return to your village)

"Everyone was flying forward as the top of the plane slammed back down on the runway. Everyone was thrown around and some people were screaming. It was just crazy." (The top of the plane slammed back down on the runway? Was it upside down or something? Where was the bottom of the plane when all this was happening? Your village is really missing you!)

"We're all in shock"

The aircraft came to a halt a short time later and was stuck on an adjacent runway with the passengers remaining onboard for more than half an hour. (Ah yes, put it on 25R and close that runway - I'm sure that happened. Never mind the adjacent taxiway)

Ms Thomas said passengers were not told what had happened but were told to stay in their seats until an evacuation was organised. (Unlikely - more likely she just didn't hear or listen)

The 27-year-old moved to Australia from the US more than two years ago and flew to the US to accompany her mother Janet to Australia because she had never been on a plane before. (Ahhh, it's an American village! Explains a lot. And she's been missing two years!)

Now Ms Thomas said after the "traumatic" aborted flight, she is unsure if her mother will ever fly again. (with a free flight/upgrade/compo I'm sure she'll be up in no time)

"The worst thing is that they didn't tell us what was happening. We're all in shock," she said. (I'm in shock reading this report!)

Emergency personnel got everyone off the aircraft using mobile stairs.

The passengers were taken to hotels overnight and are expected to leave Los Angeles early this morning.

A Qantas spokeswoman said take-off was rejected due to a "cockpit alert" but said they could not speculate on what happened.

The incident will be investigated by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau.

(Really crappy, sloppy journalism and writing. Promote that girl to sub-editor!)

flyitboy
25th Mar 2008, 22:06
ah come on guys this is amussing stuff, what else would we have to giggle about here & wonder how the hell do journo's get past grade 2 ?:ugh:
We see/read this sort of crap constantly, in fact am sure we look for it!

Most likely the cause was the Capt was at the last moment advised by the S/O that QF's T&C's where going to be once again erroded away by GD so he'd had enough. Right on the vinigar stroke he pulled the pin & asked the F/O to throw da switch that blows tyres to make it impressive & therefore show that pilots are worth more by blowing only 4 tyres out of 18 which would have made the skipper a down right hero!:E
All safe, who cares about the BS in between other than for a laugh


F:)

Plazbot
25th Mar 2008, 22:17
I got a flat on my push bike a few weeks ago. I am OK now. Thanks. Seriously, how is this news?

Dixondik
25th Mar 2008, 22:24
The actions you pilots take when you forget your overnight bags...

Skystar320
25th Mar 2008, 22:53
Dixondik

What the hell is with that name?

Eastwest Loco
25th Mar 2008, 22:54
For a change the TV reports were quite mild and allegedly accurate stating the takeoff was aborted due to a cockpit warning light and that passengers were generally calm and uninjured.

However the paintwork of the aeroplane has already contacted Centrelink complaining of being traumatised and is seeking a Government grant as a member of the newest cash cow - the "stressed generation". ;):uhoh:

QF12 pushed back at 1350 LAX time and is estimating SYD at 2220 tonight.

Best all

EWL

OhSpareMe
25th Mar 2008, 23:28
Hmmm...........let me guess.

A Door L/R 5 EICAS caution?

Fission
25th Mar 2008, 23:37
They were out of coffee?

A takeoff aborted with all passengers safe wouldn't sell any newspapers.

I love reading media reports about aviation - better than a comic. Problem is, my family often believe them - indeed Mrs Fission things flying is dangerous !!

____________________________
Free Beer - If you can find me ...

lowerlobe
25th Mar 2008, 23:55
This does make you wonder exactly how accurate or more to the point inaccurate other stories are that we read in the papers ...

I know that they are journo's and not pilots,doctors,teachers,brick layers etc...but you really do see that truth and accuracy is not a priority or even something they strive for in their stories.

Jabawocky
26th Mar 2008, 00:11
This does make you wonder exactly how accurate or more to the point inaccurate other stories are that we read in the papers ...

I know that they are journo's and not pilots,doctors,teachers,brick layers etc...but you really do see that truth and accuracy is not a priority or even something they strive for in their stories.


Lowerlobe

You seem intelligent and been around here long enough.......now what makes you make a statement like that:uhoh:?

Thats why I never buy a newspaper or rarely watch the news.......most accurate reporting believe it or not is the weather and say sports results.

J:ok:

airtags
26th Mar 2008, 00:58
actually - the most accurate things on TV are The Love Boat, Frontline .............!!!!!!!

not defending poor journalism, but the main issue is that when things happen authorities and organisations don't communicate - therefore the wayward writers have to rely on the anecdotal and the imagined.....and generally it's a safe proposition because rarely will the company come out and prove the writer wrong.

Lowerlobe - Jabba is right - definately not worth a worry

The PM
26th Mar 2008, 01:11
if you thought the journalism was bad, have a read of the readers comments....sheesh!

MUNT
26th Mar 2008, 01:24
Ron & Edna, that was the funniest thing i've read in a long time , thanks for a great read! :ok:

[Steve]
26th Mar 2008, 01:25
I heard an interview with a passenger late last night. The story he related was that the aircraft came to a smooth stop.

I recall thinking that he seemed to be indicating that he was (in retrospect perhaps) expecting more acceleration while the plane was braking.

One news person then said that one person (who was vomiting?) was taken to hospital, the other presenter (quite reasonably I think) ad lib-ed that it was "obviously precautionary".

Apart from it actually being featured, it was presented more as an interesting story than a drama.

Where do I go to hear about the near disaster with screaming women and a near miss of a day-care centre?

As I recall the interviewed passenger mentioned that the pilot told them that they had some "flat tires". I expect that the cause/effect relationship of the rejected t/o and "flat tires" is probably not understood by most passengers.

I also wonder if the suggestion that the aircraft had rotated was made by passengers who had succumbed to a somatogravic illusion caused by the lack of visual references and the acceleration of the aircraft (and the expectation that the nose would pitch up). I expect that the reversal of the direction of the acceleration would almost certainly cause a perception of a rapid nose-down pitch which would reinforce their belief.

NAMPS
26th Mar 2008, 01:27
I loved reading through the "readers' comments" in relation to the article, especially this one from "Kevin of Double Bay":

The only thing these aircraft need is a sound proof screen separating the economy section of the aircraft. My research proves that those who sit in business or first are generally more familiar with flying and as such would have remained calm under this situation. However the less experienced casually attired budget economy travellers that you often have to pass in the public lounges in airports would probably make a horrific noise based on a combination of lack of understanding and a greater lack of social skills.

Buster Hyman
26th Mar 2008, 01:50
Just listened to SkyNews telling us how ALL 4 tyres burst....amazing stuff.

I've just realised it was the City of Redfern....well there's yer problem!:rolleyes:

Poto
26th Mar 2008, 02:18
The Midday ABC news did a cracker job on this story- Apparently, according to the ABC, the Nose was in the air when the take off was aborted and the impact burst the tyres. I have always paralleled this level of aviation reporting with what may or may not be actual facts in all others types of reporting:E

crisper
26th Mar 2008, 02:30
Priceless commentary Ron and Edna - Best laugh I've had for a while. Ever thought about becomming a journalist?

Flight Detent
26th Mar 2008, 02:32
As I have Poto!

Cheers...FD

TowerDog
26th Mar 2008, 02:45
Apparently, according to the ABC, the Nose was in the air when the take off was aborted and the impact burst the tyres.

Aye, don't laugh, it happened recently with a B-747-200 in South America, here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qldcGR37Y1s

High speed abort, Nr. 1 engine exploded a few seconds after V-1, nosewheel a few feet in the air. Late abort, late reverser deployment...:=

Dixondik
26th Mar 2008, 02:50
Skystar320 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=119016)

Put an 'is a' in between the words. Did you attend school? Anyone can put 2 and 2 together...well, you've proved that not all can.

arcniz
26th Mar 2008, 03:54
Priceless commentary Ron and Edna - Best laugh I've had for a while. Ever thought about becomming a journalist?

Haven't seen the the PPrune-favored term "anorak" here much in recent times, but it seems to apply richly to most of the posters on this thread.

If you take out the fatuous comments in red added to the news-com-au story, it reads as passably good journalism. Sticks to the perceptions of those in the cabin, which certainly were more intense than those of the poseurs posting here.

How many of you "experts" have experienced a rejected takeoff at rotation in a heavy jet at near maximum weight? Pucker factor is pretty high there, even for the folks up front who know exactly how it should play out.

Get a grip!

On the other hand, an even-handed view might be: The crew on this flight, both up front and in the cabin, did their jobs well; the journalist, by sticking to plausible observations of passengers did her job well, and now the a**hole kibbitzers are doing their shallow and pointless job as well as can be done.

Buster Hyman
26th Mar 2008, 04:11
How many of you "experts" have experienced a rejected takeoff at rotation
8 to be exact...but one turned out to be a tranny.

(I assume you are talking about Rotation nightclub in SYD?)

Mr YSSY
26th Mar 2008, 04:29
Regarding the reports that the nose had already lifted...(Deep breath, get ready to be shot down in flames).....

I remember being on an Ansett 767 in 1998 that did an RTO after Vr on Sydney's 34L. It felt like we were about to join the morning rush hour traffic on Qantas Drive, as I did see the International Terminal pass by on the left hand side. The Captain sounded rattled on the PA afterwards.


I'm not familiar with LAX, but maybe the runway length and conditions resulted in V1 being after Vr???

Buster Hyman
26th Mar 2008, 04:38
"They put the brakes on pretty heavily and the crew yelled out 'Brace. Heads down' so we all assumed the brace position," Australian passenger Greg Evans told the Los Angeles affiliate for US TV network, NBC.

Geez, for his sake, I hope he turned Dexter off before take off!!!

Icarus53
26th Mar 2008, 05:52
V1 being after Vr

Tried this once (limiting V1 in my type is often higher than Vr) - managed to rotate and maintain V1 in the initial climb to 3000' whereupon the left engine failed and the Captain rejected the takeoff. Messy - still filling out paperwork.:}

Anyone else remember somatogravic illusion from HF??? Most passengers on this flight (or any other high speed RTO) would have been given the illusion that a) the aircraft had rotated (due to acceleration); and b) it have subsequently crashed to the ground (due to deceleration).

We can hardly think them idiots for trusting the conclusions their brain has screamed at them (although Ron & Edna - don't change a thing!):ok:

Capt_SNAFU
26th Mar 2008, 05:55
V1 is never after Vr, they can be the same speed but V1 is always called first. You would never consider a reject after V1 unless you are of the firm belief that the aircraft is unsafe or unable to fly.

Hardworker
26th Mar 2008, 06:06
Take Config Warning sounded 30kts below V1- Stab

crisper
26th Mar 2008, 06:58
Settle down Arcniz - your taking life too seriously. My experience with journo's is to never let the truth get in the way of a good story which is what has happened here. And that's what this thread was all about.

John Citizen
26th Mar 2008, 07:06
This story is getting better all the time.

I just heard :

-the pilot hit/applied the emergency brake
- the aircraft skidded to a stop
- passengers owe their lives to the crew (as if they were in some type of danger :confused:)

venturi101
26th Mar 2008, 07:07
Amazing stories come out of the media, anything for WOW factor.


Sounds like the Pilots of the well decorated City of Redfern QF12 did a good job.:D
Perhaps a highly visible Aussie flag should become part of that paint work.

John Citizen
26th Mar 2008, 07:22
Just heard this on another channel :

Terror on the runway....

...terror as tyre's explode on takeoff..

...A scare...

Nose had already lifted off....

Pilot slammed on the brakes....

Many passengers thrown from their seats...

passengers hung on....

Its getting better all the time.

Makes me wonder about the accuracy of everything else they report :confused:

Qantas 787
26th Mar 2008, 08:25
Quote: "I got a flat on my push bike a few weeks ago. I am OK now. Thanks. Seriously, how is this news?" :p :D Well summed up!

What another pathetic "news story" from the media - it was a slow news day. Every story relating to an aviation incident must have the following words "Terror", "Drama", "Terrified Passengers", and "feared for thier lives".

Seriously, are these stories written by work experience kids? :ugh: At least they could get an aviation writer to report the story - at least they stick with the facts.

hamgooster
26th Mar 2008, 08:47
I was a pax on a QF 737 way back in 1997 that aborted a t/o from Cairns.

I don't recall panic (or a story) resulting. Capt told us of a concern regarding an engine warning light (I recall), we taxied (with a few handfuls of throttle - to see if the warning would reoccur?) back to end of runway and then away we went again. I just thought the flightcrew were doing their job! (I mean who wants to fly towards those hills outside Cairns if you aren't sure?).

I do recall the skipper doing one thing wrong though - just before the t/o (after the abort) he said " the problem seems to be solved ...". You could have heard a pin drop until we were well and truly airborne!

Is this a story at all? Are rejected t/o's that uncommon? (I was under the impresssion they weren't.

I'm waiting for a QF scandal story the next time they have a go around ("Passengers terrified as Qantas jet Misses Runway") :rolleyes:

Clearedtoreenter
26th Mar 2008, 09:54
Yeah, yeah, we all know the press are twits!

Is anyone going to tell us WHY the bloody light came on and why the Captain felt this rather (dramatic, desperate, life or death ;)) action was necessary?

TheAngryIbis
26th Mar 2008, 12:07
Is anyone going to tell us WHY the bloody light came on and why the Captain felt this rather (dramatic, desperate, life or death ) action was necessary?

Isn't the answer right up there amongst the journo bashing at post #33? :ok:

Hardworker
26th Mar 2008, 22:12
At 122kts on take off EICAS annuciated Take OFF Warning Config Msg Stab fault traced to L/H RVDT stab postion giving incorrect info to the FCU then onto SRM which then dispalyed the warning. Crew Rejected takeoff as any would with a config warning msg. Had the aircraft become airbourne they most probably would have had EICAS warning Stab Trim and unschedule Stab Trim which would have been an ATB. The RTO was carried out as normal, as the aircraft was heavy 380+tonnes the tyres failed from heat build up. Loan parts borrowed, aircraft back in SYD

Sandy Freckle
27th Mar 2008, 00:17
It gets worse and worse.....

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,23433335-5014090,00.html

Tires burst

The 217 passengers on board Qantas Flight 12 yesterday were reportedly given no warning the jet had to be stopped mid take-off from Los Angeles airport, with the impact "deflating" four of Boeing 747's tyres.

Many passengers were thrown forward in their seats after being caught unawares by the pilot's sudden actions.

The pilot was forced to abort the take-off at 5pm (AEST) when a warning light illuminated.

The nose of the plane had already lifted off the ground and passengers were heavily jostled as it hit the tarmac at full speed.

The aircraft came to a halt a short time later and was stuck on an adjacent runway with the passengers remaining onboard for more than half an hour.



and these doozies!

Passenger Samantha Thomas last night told The Daily Telegraph the screams of frightened passengers filled the aircraft while others were thrown forward into seats.

She said passengers were not told what had happened but were told to stay in their seats until an evacuation was organised.

"It started to take off and everything was fine. The nose of the plane was actually lifted up and we were going at full speed when suddenly the pilot slammed on the brakes," she said.

"Everyone was flying forward as the top of the plane slammed back down on the runway. Everyone was thrown around and some people were screaming. It was just crazy."

Australian passenger Jackie Mullen said there was no sense of panic.

"Not at all," Mr Mullen told NBC.

"No, the crew just shouted 'brace, brace' and everyone braced and it was like a drill," Mullen said.

"Everyone knew what to do."

American passenger Robert Jones told NBC that Qantas "did a great job".

"The fire services were great," he said.

"Everybody handled it very well."



And just to add insult to injury....

Experienced US pilots described the aborted takeoff as a "critical, but not highly dangerous" situation.

Peter McHale, a pilot flying for American Airlines, said the tyres on the Qantas plane likely blew from the weight of the aircraft as it slowed down dramatically.

He said the planes are programmed to "automatically" abort the takeoff if the pilot chooses.

"If there's any reason to stop the plane they pull the power back and this rejected takeoff setting automatically kicks in and begins to brake the aircraft and it's very heavy breaking," Mr McHale said.

"As far as the wheels, they didn't have any control over that.

"That's just something that happens because of the weight of the aircraft."

The incident will be investigated by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau.



Where the sh1t do they find these idiots???

Brian Abraham
27th Mar 2008, 00:52
Where the sh1t do they find these idiots
Sandy - to give them the benefit of the doubt perhaps some thing was lost in the translation as to how the RTO autobrake works ie kicks in automatically when power reduced to idle, and above 85kts, and weight on the gear.

G-ZUZZ
27th Mar 2008, 06:40
And just to add insult to injury....


Quote:
Experienced US pilots described the aborted takeoff as a "critical, but not highly dangerous" situation.

Peter McHale, a pilot flying for American Airlines, said the tyres on the Qantas plane likely blew from the weight of the aircraft as it slowed down dramatically.

He said the planes are programmed to "automatically" abort the takeoff if the pilot chooses.

"If there's any reason to stop the plane they pull the power back and this rejected takeoff setting automatically kicks in and begins to brake the aircraft and it's very heavy breaking," Mr McHale said.

"As far as the wheels, they didn't have any control over that.

"That's just something that happens because of the weight of the aircraft."

The incident will be investigated by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau.

Where the sh1t do they find these idiots???

well I think the brakes have an automatic setting where if they decide to stop during the takeoff the brakes come on automatically faster than the pilot could do it right?

It's not Capt. McHale's fault the journo was trying to write it all down instead of paying attention.

Capt. McHale knows what he's talking about.

If the journos get this sort of thing wrong all the time then you have to wonder about anything else they write especially when they are more concerned with getting their teeth into something they think is "righteous" or should be told and ruining someone's life along the way.

Newspapers are by idiots for idiots and make money for one or two.

max autobrakes
27th Mar 2008, 08:50
Sounds more like a Capt Binghamton remark than a Capt McHale!:}

Icarus53
27th Mar 2008, 10:32
Just to balance the equation a little, I noted that last night's CH9 news provided a reasonable account of the event, without getting into the nitty-gritty and without sensationalising limited observations which discussions here show to be completely ludicrous.

Consequently, the most they could squeeze out of the story without all the BS was comments from pax returning the next morning to get on the plane again. Seems it was a bit ho-hum after all!:rolleyes:

Another crew member noted with irony that this event attracted international media attention, while a 717 being bent on landing in DN barely rates a column inch!:eek:

blow.n.gasket
28th Mar 2008, 00:58
Lucky it wasn't JetStar!
I doubt even they could "afford to buy" a big enough "worlds best" award to quieten the hype.:ooh: