Jags on the M1

[Rigger1]

Driving down the M1 the other day I was reminded of something I was told in training in the early 80’s ……. With the Russian bear poised to steam roller the West we were told that several sections of motorway (the M1 was mentioned) had been specifically designed to be long enough and straight enough to operate jags etc from them when all our airfields got taken out (and we had double figures back then!). Apparently, the jets would hide under bridges, which were designed for it, and everyone would camp under cam nets on the verge!

It sounds farfetched to me. But so does operating Harriers from supermarkets with all the windows smashed so they could just roll into isle 1, and that was seriously considered. Has anyone else ever heard of motorway operations in the UK?

[JohnFTEng]

In '73/'74 a Jaguar operated by BAe as part of the flight test programme at Warton did make one test landing/takeoff from an un-opened stretch of motorway from Preston to Blackpool (M56?). It was to demonstrate the T/O landing capability on "unusual" runways. Didn't they opearte a Jag from the grass at Farnboro' in the same period?

[mystic_meg]

It was the M55...

http://www.iht.org/motorway/m55pnb.htm

(scroll down to 2nd image) :ok:

[Dan Winterland]

There's more than one stretch of motorway in the UK which was designed to be used as a runway in wartime. One such section is the A1 in Lincolnshire mear Cottesmore, it's the bit next to the disused airfield at Woolfox Lodge. The southbound carriageway is perfect straight and level for several miles, whereas the other carriageway is undulating and windy. Also, there is a service road next to it which gave access to the old hardstandings at Woolfox Lodge.

[orgASMic]

There are a couple of sections of the A2 in Germany that were set up with this in mind - dead straight, no bridges or crossing power lines and service stations abeam either 'threshold'. Was anyone out there on the Harrier force in the 70s/80s ever called to activate one?

[GPMG]

I think that this is SOP's for the Swiss air force.

Makes a lot of sense, it's doubtfullthat it would be needed but there is always a slim chance and if so could prove invaluable.

[luoto]

Some roads in Finland have the same purpose.

[SirToppamHat]

Based on Google Earth (so there may be undulations reducing the available length), that Woolfox Lodge section is about 16,000ft long. Not what could be described as a MOS! My my reckoning it's longer than any runway in the UK. Twice as long as Manston and 4000ft longer than Greenham Common. Not terribly wide though.

STH

[izod tester]

Then of course there is the section of the M5 near Gloucester which uses the old Moreton Valence main runway. Sadly there is now no trace of the factory where Gloster produced Javelins there.

[ExRAFRadar]

Isnt that why the Mall is painted Red - so the Royals could be picked up in a hurry - :rolleyes:

[FlapJackMuncher]

3 sections of motorway in Cyprus are set up for runway use.
The central barriers are stretched wire and the white centre lines are pre-painted. There are even hard standing areas at each end.
Don't know if its ever been tested though.

[Dan D'air]

I think that this is SOP's for the Swiss air force.


Singapore does it too. They have a major self-defence exercise every 5 years or so. Bit bizarre though, seeing an A4 roll past your car window!!

[Old Ned]

Anyone trying to take off on one of Brown's motorways would doubtless get at least 3 points and a £60 fine!!:E

[VictorWatcher]

Do the same thing in Taiwan. However here they actually practice about once a year., they close the freeway down from approx 4am to 10am and send in a few jets to have a go and demonstrate the capacity to do it. I think they usually use mirage 2000, f-16s and their own. The newspapers often have some nice shots the day after.

[Dan Winterland]

The Republic of China (Taiwan) Air Force regularly practice off motorways.

[Hill Walker]

Wonder what the toll would be? On the M6 cars are now £4.50 and HGVs a hefty £9, so a fast jet must be at least a tenner.

Going off-thread, has anyone noticed how on new stretches of motorway/dual-carriageway the junction signs are now at 2/3 mile and 1/3 mile instead of 1 mile and 1/2 mile? Maybe I'm just being cynical but they could easily become 1 km and 1/2 km...

[spanners123]

I was once told that the road from Elgin to Lossiemouth (the long straight section, before you turn left to go to the camp) was a standby runway for the Jag's. All the signposts are further back from the road, so maybe......

[Thelma Viaduct]

Another example of Roman forward thinking.

Who would ever of thought of a straight road. :confused:

How would a Jag stop a Bear ???

[luoto]

Couple of pictures of Finnish airport "parked" on actual roads.

http://www.ilmavoimat.fi/index.php?id=79&kuva=galleria_hn1.jpg

http://www.ilmavoimat.fi/index.php?id=79&kuva=galleria_hn1.jpg

[Cyclone733]

How would a Jag stop a Bear ???

Sidewinder?

[SALAD DODGER]

When the American Eisenhower interstate system was constructed it was a specific requirement that one in every five of the 46,837 miles of road had to be kept perfectly straight. The idea was that during times of war the roads could be used as emergency runways, negating the need for more airports.

Actually, the 405 freeway in Los Angeles was designed as a backup runway for LAX airport. As far as I know it’s only been used for this purpose once, as documented in the documentary “405″ available at

http://www.405themovie.com/Home.asp.

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/environment/historichighways/MAM55_files/image009.jpg This is what you are after...M55 photo.

[Fox_4]

Fascinating bit of history and snippet of these defence exercises in Taiwan etc.

I wonder in the days of risk averseness and H&S/FOD, whether the RAF would ever be able to practice on one of these roads at all now. Probably would have been a goer in the good old days before PC bollox and the delays it might cause to some chav going to get his benefit cheque.

16000` is about the right length for a Jag in any temp above 2C isnt it!!? :cool:

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

Why didn't they put the signs on hinges like the palm trees outside the Thunderbird 2 cave?

[Bushfiva]

Salad Dodger, an urban myth. You shouldn't trust your first Google hit.

[Fg Off Max Stout]

And in Iraq. One that springs to mind is on the 'motorway' between Basrah and Tallil. I'll try to dig out the pics.

[Mark1234]

Not quite the same, but the RFDS (Flying Doc's) use roads also - some even have piano keys painted on them (and minimal traffic!)

[Lurking123]

Isn't the main entrance to Ramstein a standby runway? I'm sure there used to be cable housings there in the late 80s although Google Maps seems to have put a roundabout in the middle. :confused:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=49.435744,7.5648136&z=15&t=h&hl=en

[Jimlad1]

Outside Queen Alia airport in Jordan the motorway has all the markings required to become a runway in an emergency too.

[Gainesy]

Lurking, yes it was, the base PRO told me that after a long hard think they tried it out once but used OV-10s from Sembach up the road, rather than the F-4s that were then based there. Don't know if the F-4s ever used it afterwards. This was in about 1981-82 ish.

Harriers operated from hides in Watton MQs once (Ex Big T) but that was short lived after some garage doors were blown in and the roofs were then blown off. Back to muddy, woody hides then.

[mr fish]

i nominate j26 m1, when returning with unused missiles, bombs, napalm, tactical nukes etc, just dump the f:mad:ers on BULWELL:E

[Derek Booth]

Taken whilst serving as Cpl Phot at Command PR RAFG circa 1984. Taking off from a stretch of Autobahn just South of Willelmshaven, prior to the official opening of the road to vehicles. Over a three day period we had RAF, USAF, Luftwaffe, Dutch and Belgique AF landing and taking off from the stretch.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj25/DerekBooth/XV.jpg

[Monkey Madness]

3 sections of motorway in Cyprus are set up for runway use.
The central barriers are stretched wire and the white centre lines are pre-painted. There are even hard standing areas at each end.
Don't know if its ever been tested though.

Indeed they have - there are infact 4 in total (1 on the Lemesos-Pafos highway. 1 on the Lemesos-Larnaka stretch just after the Lefkosia split, and 2 on the Lefkosia highway) They were built incase the TRNC decided to come knocking again, with the MOB at Pafos Airport. There are pictures somewhere.....

MM

[Greenleader]

Interesting thread. Enjoyed reading it - and the first I've read on the mil forum for a very long time where there's been no sniping and moaning. Sweet work fellas! :)

[clicker]

Dont the Swedish Air Force do the same on their roads?

[dum_my]

There are loads of them in Sweden, and it's always fun to discover them in unlikely places.
But in recent years some have been taken out of use with permanent central crash barriers being installed after some v. nasty RTAs.

[M609]

Sweden decided early in the 60s that they would not rely on their peacetime bases in wartime. They then built a lot (30+) of 2000mx40m runways with qra hardstands at each end, and located the lot in Swedens interior, away from the coast. (The "Bas 60" system)
Quite ambitious since they had 21 peacetime bases.)
These bases had hardstands in large clusters connected to the rwy system via public roads, but no road runways.
Peacetime bases was designated as back up sattelites to the war-bases.

With the advent of cluster munitions and precision munitions on the way the SWAF decided that that system was to vulnerable, and during the 80s about half of the BAS60 bases was upgraded to "BAS90" standard, which included building 2 -4 800m road runways connected to the main one via public roads. Dispersed parking along the roads was also added. The use of 800m road rwys was possible with the introduction of the JA37 Viggen aircraft system.

Today, only a handful of the BAS90 bases are active, and some more are on care and maint. Some of the original BAS60 bases are developed into civilian airports today. (Borlänge, Kristianstad, Storuman)

Training as an ATCO in Sweden, i got to try the ATC sim the SWAF use to train controllers in the very special art of controlling tfc from a dispersed base. Very different indeed.

The road bases have created a few entertaining anecdotes, the best one the Viggen that landed on a road RWY at the Byholma base (Road rwy here: http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=56.815845&lon=13.541955&z=13.7&r=0&src=ggl, main base to the south east), when he was supposed to land on the main 2000m strip. The road was not closed, and when realizing his mistake, the pilot turned around, and took off in the opposite direction. The driver of the Scania timber truck that he flew over just as he was airborne got the shock of his life. :E

[angels]

Top thread. Thanks to all.

As for Singapore, the road runway I knew when I lived there in the late 90s was on the East Coast Parkway as it approaches Changi airport after passing the Tanah Merah ferry terminal.

Keen eyed observers would have noticed that all the plants making up the central reservation were in portable containers whereas on the rest of the ECP they were in permanent homes. Markings for when the runway was in use were also visible.

I think they may have tested the runway out just once in my three years there, but -- as usual -- stand to be corrected.

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Jags, Strikeys and Hunters used the "Black Top" in Oman, or at least they did back in the 80's. Possibly the Jags and Hawks still do.

[Cricket23]

The Pease Pottage to Hooley section of the M23 motorway was opened in 1974. Rumour has it that a Jag landed on it sometime just before it opened. Can anyone confirm pls?

C23

[Capot]

The road from Amman to Iraq is designed for use by JRAF in times of need, near the Iraq border.

It's nice and wide and there's a parking area where one would be refuelled.

[Geezers of Nazareth]

For one reason or another I just happened to be looking at Taiwan on Google Earth a few days ago. There were quite a few 'airfields' marked which were actually straight stretches of motorway.

[Gainesy]

M23, never heard of any Jags on it, probably too short for them anyway.:E
Slightly off topic, Jags were trialed operating from a grass strip alongside the runway at Boscombe.

[alwayslookingup]

Ref photo in Post 31. Thanks Derek. How noisy was that? What a brooding and atmospheric shot of the Tornado on take off, very dark and menacing. Brings back lots of memories of the early eighties, when the cold war was still going on, pre glasnost and perestroika (spelling?) and the new world order. Was it really only 24 years ago. I'm guessing for many readers it'll have gone past in the proverbial flash. At least we knew who the enemy were then. Kind of makes one feel nostalgic for those days?

[Derek Booth]

Alwayslookingup

Appreciate your sentiments and kind comments.

Thinking back, I guess it must have been quite 'loud' but then again, I have taken so many such images over the past 38 yrs (now a Professional Photographic Officer in MOD), that you tend not to remember individual efforts. Also, at the time, one is concentrating so heavily on the actual photography that you become oblivious to all else, including noise, vibes etc.

Speaking of the Cold War, ironically, whilst on the same PR tour in Germany, I had to photograph the NATO stand during the Dusseldorf Boat Show, where we had a number of Star Ranking members in attendance. Not only that - We had a Russian Army General there too :confused:

[Derek Booth]

Alwayslookingup

Funny how things can jog the memory - The one 'noisy' shoot I distinctly remember (though sadly I have no copy from it), was a six ship, tactical take off at Scampton. Of course, I'm talking Vulcans here. Now that was something to behold.:ok:

Derek

[F.O.D]

Thanks for the photo Derek,

IIRC, I was the nose gunner on the XV sqn Tornado carrying out approaches on the autobahn in 1984. The final approach was a little sporty as there was a bridge across the autobahn prior to the touchdown point. I was given some PR photos at the time but they are in storage. thanks for reminding me of the good times we had in RAFG.

regards

F.O.D

[Bushers]

The first rough field take-off demo by a Jag was from BAE Samlesbury, in the days when BAE still knew what aeroplanes and airfields were. Pilot was Chris Yeo. How the nose gear stood up to the pounding was a minor miracle. If memory serves Chris also did the demo on/off the M55.

[Derek Booth]

F.O.D

Spot on re the bridge, a few hundred metres to the left, out of pic on the one I posted and I certainly remember a few 'hairy' moments.

Possible that the PR pix you have are from my exploits there.

Thanks for providing the 'entertainment' for the shoot - much appreciated.

Regards
Derek

[Ken Scott]

Watched a Jag take off from the grass at Farnborugh in the 80s, quite impressive. I also have a vague recollection from when I was an OpsO at Colt of a plan to use the adjacent public road in wartime emergencies for take offs, but I could be having a 'senior moment'!

[radicalrabit]

You are quite right there are several long and short concrete stretches of motorway/runway for alternative jet deployment and recovery , I used to have a map when i was with 54 sqn at Colt, it only turned up during a taceval one cold November night just before we got pushed off to Scandinavia, I dont recall any one ever getting that ambitious and landing on one

[soprano54]

I also heard that about the road between Lamas and the North Walsham road!:ok:

[nacluv]

Forgive me if I'm talking bol-x, but isn't that live ordnance on board?

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

I seem to remember it landed clean, did a back taxi had some stores loaded and then took off. I think the point was to show that the road could be used for quickly re-arming the aircraft as well as a temporary airfield.

[XV277]

Not a practical landing site (as someone built a block of flats at the end, but the M8 west of Glasgow follows the line of the old runway at Renfrew

[tarbaby]

I thought that having students flying around Jordan on 1948 topos was a bit hairy. So when I was in the UK I snaffled some H7 (I think) topos from Lyneham . They showed all the airfields in Jordan including the widened roads. This lasted for a week before the secret police appeared saying that the charts were going to be confiscated as the position of all the airfields was secret. Even better was trying to tell them that the charts could be purchased over the counter.

[kubbua]

Not far fetched at all. In 1975 as a kid on my way to work on a farm in Gt Eccleston near Preston lancs a development Jaguar from Warton landed on the un-opened new M55 motorway from between Preston and Blackpool. Then ground crew from Warton fitted bombs and role equipment and it took off. I thought it was the making of a James Bond film or something, but it was a test to show the Jags versatility.