Jetstar Agree not to hire Qantaslink Pilots

[MyAngle]

I heard that Jetstar has made a non-formal commitment with M Day vee not to hire any more pilots from Qantaslink? Can anyone confirm this?
If this is the case, any aspiring jetstar pilot would be knee-capping themselves from a career with jetstar by joining Q'link. Something to think about...:ooh:

[rmcdonal]

The more you hear these type of things the more you wonder just how big a gun they are using to shoot themselves in the foot.
:ugh:

They would solve most their crewing problems by offering a progression from QLink into Mainline. Pilots would queue up to spend a few years Right seat of a Dash then a few Left and then the opportunity to move into the big jets. Plus then QANTAS would have a supply of experienced and tested pilots for the Jets.

Actually that’s starting to sound a bit like recycling....;)

[LUCKY-1]

RMC, I have been perusing posts on this site for a number of years. Your succinct post is the clearest simplest paradigm for success on so many levels!

Well Spoken!

Regards

Lucky

[KRUSTY 34]

Just like the deal between REX and Virgin! Pleeese!

Jetstar must crew their aircraft. DJ must crew theirs. I wonder if the managers of the regional airlines can actually add? Because the numbers do not add up. The number of pilots required by the major airlines over the next 2-3 years greatly exceeds the total number of qualified pilots currently not employed by these airlines.

So what will DJ, Jetstar, QF do? Continue to employ as many qualified pilots as they need, or will they cancel their multi million dollar aircraft orders to protect the viability of the smaller operators.

What will the Regional Airlines do? Continue to lose people they cannot replace, or will they actively compete for labour and save their business.

It's not rocket science, but you could be excused for thinking it is!

[Artificial Horizon]

I guess Jetstar and Qantaslink will just have to think about hiring foreign pilots....... oop's they already have started doing that!!! Makes sense to me that one subsidiary wouldn't put into jeopardy the operations of another by recruiting pilots from their ranks.

[DeafStar]

I think you would find this sort of behaviour illegal? If it could be proven then the IRC and the union movement would have a field day. We all know nothing is secret in aviation and this sort of deal woud get a spotlight on it pretty quick. MD wouldnt want to try this **** on otherwise the drama bomb would be nuclear in magnitude.

[Friction Nut]

I think most QLink pilots call jetstar a last resort anyway...

Its all good, we'll just keep going to the opposition.

[Shark Slayer]

Illegal-Restraint of trade, discrimination...etc.

Of course, what was I thinking, QANTAS so the norms of legality, morality don't apply !

[Torres]

MyAngle, your theory makes no sense. The QF "organisation" would have greater concern in productivity of their capital equipment, rather than regional air services. To the contrary, I believe an ability to progress from regional to mainline does exist, under certain circumstances.

And if you were correct, in the absence of industrial seniority between corporate units of the QF "organisation", I doubt the IRC would have any jurisdiction or interest.

[woftam]

We should all know by now that Oz airline "management" is reactive and not proactive.
The penny will finally drop with these people when A/C are parked and not a second before. :ugh:
Progression to mainline is the answer to so many problems that the QF group faces re crewing levels. Why is that so hard for these clowns to understand?
They would rather lose pilots to the opposition.
Gee...............that makes sense !!!!! :D

[hoss]

MyAngle,

yes i can confirm this, it happened to me over a period of years. mark davey prevented me(and many others) from an opportunity with jetstar.

the solution was quite simple, within weeks of virgin blue announcing a sydney base i applied and was successfull(like many others).

in a nutshell, avoid qantaslink if you want to move within the qantas group.

regards hoss:).

ps. i even managed to activate the lights at launy the other night;).

[The PM]

RMC, I have been perusing posts on this site for a number of years. Your succinct post is the clearest simplest paradigm for success on so many levels!

Well Spoken!

Regards

Lucky

Macca, quick, get to the pub, there is still time to save you!

:}:ok:

[CAPTBOB]

Deafstar, clearly from your post you are only a spectator in the Australian Aviation industry,

Quote...I think you would find this sort of behaviour illegal? If it could be proven then the IRC and the union movement would have a field day. We all know nothing is secret in aviation and this sort of deal woud get a spotlight on it pretty quick. MD wouldnt want to try this **** on otherwise the drama bomb would be nuclear in magnitude."

Well it does, and has been for a long time and you just work with it. The only movement that the union's have in Australia that involves aviation is the one around lunch time whilst reading the paper. :ok:

[Mstr Caution]

If this is the case, any aspiring jetstar pilot would be knee-capping themselves from a career with jetstar by joining Q'link


My Angle

And........Setting themselves up for a potential career in mainline, considering the opportunities available. Some have recently progressed to mainline after less than 6 months in QFlink.

Krusty 34

Have to agree with you there. If J* are travelling as far a field as Europe & South Africa to source their pilots the surely then wouldnt discount QFlink.

Besides, there are employment laws in the form of anti-discrimination & equal opportunity that would prohibit such activity.

I think most QLink pilots call jetstar a last resort anyway...

Friction Nut : Have to agree with you there. The use of career & jetstar in the same sentance by My Angle is a an interesting angle.

Hoss: How did MD prevent you from going to J*? The same way he's preventing all the current QFlink pilots joining mainline.

CAPTBOB: What makes the airline industry any different from any other when it comes to employment law in Australia?

One must ask themselves: Why are QF mainline sending mainline cadets to QFlink & not Jetstar, when both are short of pilots?

MC:8

[qfpaypacket]

Jetstar is not a career, it's merely a stepping stone.........

[oldsmithy]

I hate to be a bearer of bad news, this has been unofficially happening for years and years. First QF and then Jetstar, they will just allow a few to go from time to time that way nobody can say they are being discriminated against for working at Qlink. Boys and girls left at Qlink pack your bags and go, each and everyone of you can fly jets don't listen to the f**** at QF, flying a Jet is easier than flying a Dash 8, can't remember last time I did a night circling approach with low cloud and poor vis..

[grumpy greyhound]

Hoss, heard a lot about this sort of stuff over the years and more of late with some at Sunnies.Just what are you saying every ones best mate did to upset yours and others progression?

[Mstr Caution]

I really wanted to be an Astronaut for NASA.

I know I dont have a degree, wear glasses, I'm too short, my blood pressure is a little high & I didnt pass the NASA phych tests.

But I'm sure the real reason I got knocked back was the QF group got into NASA's ear about the pilot shortage in Aus.:8

[Captain Biggles84]

I heard on the grapevine that they have just started progressing some QLINK drivers into mainline.. anyone else confirm this?? Or is there only a VERY select few that get lucky and get to progress through..

Why are the most simpliest solutions always the last to be put into play!!:ugh::ugh:

[Icarus53]

I can think of half a dozen off the top of my head, some of whom were also accepted by JQ. Pays to note that several have gone through within a year of entering QL, and so don't qualify to have elements of the entry requirements waived.

Whilst management certainly do have a lot to answer for, I thank we can agree that the writing is on the wall at the moment. Job applications with other carriers are openly discussed in crew rooms, and the number going to VB makes it obvious that you can't keep hold of a decent pilot by simply denying them a job elsewhere in the group.

Why then would anyone waste their time setting up an informal agreement which does not succeed in retaining pilots in the group, further endangers morale, and which by-the-way is illegal.:=

Plenty of people from QL are getting jet jobs domestically and internationally (or haven't you heard - we have a shortage). If you're not one of them time to stop blaming it on the one-armed man. Perhaps spend your time doing something constructive instead?:ok:

[Keg]

S/O I flew with the other day had been checked out for six weeks and was ex QFLink. Started about October last year I think. He wasn't the only regional guy on his course.

It shouldn't have to be this hard for regional guys and gals to move to mainline!

[Toluene Diisocyanate]

They can afford to lose FOs. They cant afford to lose their experienced captains (including C+T) hence why none of THEM are getting into mainline or ****star.
Surprise surprise. VB sees them as a good source of experience and is now snapping the captains up.
Latest is 11 EAA capts confirmed and awaiting start dates. Who knows how many from Sunnies?
Godfrey was right.:}
All long termers who are totally disillusioned with the jokers who are supposed to be running the show.
So that means park another 3 EAA planes by July.
Good to see #42 is on top of it all! He'll get a promotion out of this!:ugh:



See youse!

TDI.

[Mstr Caution]

I've met a few QFlink guys who have bagged mainline for not offering progression.

After asking if they had applied, the response was NO !!

What percentage of QFlink have applied? Only the newbies and a few others I expect.

MC:8

[Don Diego]

Hoss,over those few years they kept you why did they let the others go??

[Willie Nelson]

Worth making a couple of points, whatever you may say negative about EAA they do not and will not STOP Qlink pilots from progressing, I can say this as I have progressed from EAA to JQ.

The reasoning has nothing to do Federal or state antidiscrimination laws/ EEO as a number of people seem to believe, Federal EEO (state is not relevant in this case) laws guard against anti discrimination based only upon:

Race
Religion
Sexual preference (even this still does not apply to the armed services)
Gender
Pregnancy (unless a complication arises with the nature of the work)
Marital status
union affilliation

The laws are not so complex as to govern what may be considered unfair by an individual employee, that philosophy would go against the workplace reform that both sides of politics have been working on for the last 20 odd years.

It must be remembered that in days of old many people who got into EAA had 5000 hours plus and had already had there two shots at mainline by the time EAA gave them a look in. The same people then turned around and cried poor that they could not get into mainline, despite this many later got a third go despite previous never to reapply letters and subsequently have now progressed.

The deluge of pilots going from EAA to JQ is now famous at JQ as is the amount of people coming from REX to JQ, if it has slowed down, this possibly has more to do with experience levels than anything else.

Qantas will not stop progression because they know that pilots won't even start at EAA if this occurs, despite what you may think of the evil empire they are not that stupid, they simply play a game that aims to put supply and demand in their favour.

Having said all that, I and many others of my time had our external 'progression" delayed by months. That is arguably unfair but to play the devil's advocate I might not have made the cut if it were not for the excellent CRM and multi crew experience I gained at EAA, I choose to see the glass as half full, it's all a matter of perspectives.

[Mstr Caution]

The reasoning has nothing to do Federal or state antidiscrimination laws/ EEO as a number of people seem to believe, Federal EEO (state is not relevant in this case) laws guard against anti discrimination based only upon:

Race
Religion
Sexual preference (even this still does not apply to the armed services)
Gender
Pregnancy (unless a complication arises with the nature of the work)
Marital status
union affilliation

Willie Nelson

The listed basis of discrimination you have provided are DIRECT FORMS of discrimination. Of which you can add to your list:

Disability (physical or intellectual)
Parental Status
Age
Family Responsibilities
Changed Sexuality
Criminal Record
Political Beliefs & Activities
Medical Records

The anti discrimination laws I was reffering to in my previous post are INDIRECT DISCRIMINATION in the form of:

A practice or policy or procedure which results in a person treated either more/less favourably so that another person or group is either DISADVANTAGED or ADVANTAGED.

As for EEO, it is legislated that a person shall have an equal probability of success for a job position & a right to be considered for a job they are suitably skilled or qualified for.

So examples of this would be, because QF mainline is a seperate company to that of QFlink or J*.

Due to indirect discrimination, mainline could not show preference to recruit only from subsidiaries as this would be discriminating to those that are not part of the QF group who are equally qualified for the same positions.

Alternatively, mainline could not favour recruitment from other than subsidiaries for the same reason. Being they would be favouring non QF group individuals therfore indirectly discriminating against individuals employed by the subsidiaries.

So a policy of recruiting the most suitable individual based on selection criteria should be utilised by any responsible company.

MC:8

[Dunnybudgee]

IMHO this sort of bollocks has been done in many places and always fails.

The end result of any kind of recruitment embargo (either total or partial) just results in the group losing its best staff to the competition and resentment amongst those who remain. :sad:

Its not necessary. Some airlines overseas have a policy of progressing their people from the regionals. Especially in the US. They realise there are 2 type of employees, those who will never leave (due location, family whatever), and those who will. So they have a choice - keep those good people within their organisation and continue to reap the benefits of all that training and operational memory your company paid for OR ignore them and lose them to who exactly? THE COMPETITION - THATS WHO! Oh yeah real smart move bucko! :confused:

Most pilots won't accept it, they just leave! And spread resentment before they go. If there was a demonstrated career path, all that corporate memory would be retained and there would be a real group spirit. In my view it's short sighted and selfish, and whats more it doesn't work!

In the 1990's Air NZ mainline did the same to us in Link at Air Nelson & Mt Cook whilst it took the least experienced / qualified pilots in the entire group from Eagle motors OR complete outsiders. :* We had top CHK & TRN people with all the bells and whistles. Many with high EFIS, airline multi crew hours, degrees etc, been with the Air NZ group for many years - but they couldn't even get interviews.

RESULT - WE LEFT! :p Europe, OZ, HK etc. And who really lost? IMHO Air NZ lost; their best crews and ANY good will they had left (which wasn't much) by showing no loyalty, appreciation or even simple recognition for long service.

Lets hope QANTAS wakes up and treats their people better. If not their loss is CX's / VB's / J*'s / Tiger's gain... :D