What's realy a fATPL?

[AvEnthusiast]

Hello Dears,

I did search, but may be I didn't find the exact answers to my questions, so you might help me.

I want to know what's exaclty a Frozen ATPL? I mean is a PPL,CPL/IR, ME holder a holder of fATPL? with 200 hrs flight training and 300 hrs ground school.
or no the CPL/IR & ME holder should have passed ATPL theorical exams as well to be consideres as fATPL?
And do CPL/IR cobined courses usually contains ATPL theory and exams?

And a course titled "Professional Pilot Program" which inludes PPL,IR/CPL, ME with 200hrs flight training (ICAO Requirement) and 300 hrs gs is a integrated course or modular?

Regards,
AvEnthusiast

[Shunter]

Technically there's no such thing as a frozen ATPL. It's an adopted term which essentially means you have a CPL/IR and have a valid theoretical knowledge credit from passing the ATPL exams.

[captain_rossco]

+MCC perhaps ????

[nick14]

ATPL groundschool + cpl/me+ir+MCC

only becomes an atpl when you have 1500 hours and send some money to the caa

[5150]

You need multi-crew hours for ATPL 'unfreezing' these days too. . .

[IRISHPILOT]

No MCC (this is not ICAO but JAA) for the fATPL.

No multi crew hours for unfreezing the fATPL (this is again not ICAO but JAA).

Have a look where the poster is located, it is unlikely that he wants a JAA licence, and even in the UK

[AvEnthusiast]

Thanks for the posts. Now one more thing
I know many people do the ATPL theories first to see if they are capable and then invest on them. But what makes the difference if you obtain CPL/IR, ME or whatever first and then go for ATPL theories becuase you still can be a pilot. or if it's not considered a fATPL then?

[Whirlygig]

JAA, and probably other ICAO countries as well, require that you have passed all the theory before you take your CPL skill test so you have to do the theory first.

Cheers

Whirls

[Genghis the Engineer]

But the CPL flying syllabus and skills test are common to ATPL and CPL - it's only the theoretical knowledge exams that differ.

For most purposes ATPL theory = CPL theory + IR theory.

(There are a few extra bits, such as climatology, but not many).

G

[AvEnthusiast]

Anhanh! Then the FTOs provide this theory during the ground schoold for related licenses and ratings. Am I right?

[Unusual Attitude]

This is not quite correct.

CPL Theory + flight test = CPL
Then add IR Theory + IR flight test = CPL/IR

THIS IS NOT HOWEVER A F/ATPL

To gain a F/ATPL, even if you hold a CPL/IR done in the above way, you will need to re-sit 12 ATPL exams (all except VFR comms and IFR comms)

The only way to get a F/ATPL theory wise is to do the full ATPL theory course and gain BOTH your CPL and IR within 36 months.
As stated above, if you only gain your CPL and fail to add an IR within 36 months then you lose ALL your ATPL theory credits and have to start again.

If you just do the CPL theory first and then the IR theory later you will still not be classed as having a frozen ATPL either which sounds bonkers but I have this in writing from the CAA.

Without a F/ATPL you cannot add a multi-crew type to your license and therefore cannot fly for most airlines.

Clear as mud eh!!!

[Permafrost_ATPL]

From IRISHPILOT:

No multi crew hours for unfreezing the fATPL (this is again not ICAO but JAA).

Please go look in LASORS... You need 500 hours Multipilot for issue of ATPL

Cheers

P

[Shunter]

As has been said, the 500hr multi-crew requirement is a JAA requirement. Outside JAA-land this is not needed.

If the OP was taking the FAA route, he would not need any multi-crew hours to get his ATPL. FAR 61.159 is worth reading.

[INNflight]

JAA, and probably other ICAO countries as well, require that you have passed all the theory before you take your CPL skill test so you have to do the theory first.


I am not sure that is true the way you put it.

I do my full FAA CPL ME/IR in the US, then the JAA ATPL (theory) in Europe and then convert the CPL/IR to JAA. :ooh:

I know it's extra work, because I have to do CPL theory first and then the whole ATPL theory again, but I see it as extra in-depth training, and nowadays where everybody is so worried about first-time passes and high averages I think it doesn't do harm to do some extra studying.

Consider me stupid if you want to of course :}

[Whirlygig]

INNFlight, are you saying that you took your FAA CPL skills test before you passed all the FAA CPL exams?

Your training regime is exactly as I described!

Cheers

Whirls