Merged: QF Recruitment

[LuckyQ]

G'day,

I was wondering If anyone has been given a start date for direct entry S/O for next year?

Maybe you know of someone starting in Jan.?

Would appreciate any info. on any scheduled courses for next year?

Thank you. :)

[Keg]

12-16 a month for the next 12 months.

[ALLICEDUP]

I have a start date of the 11th of Feb. Anyone else on here got a Feb start date??

[abozic]

I have a start date 14th January. Courses begin every 4 weeks. I don't know anyone else on my course.

[On Guard]

Whats the ratio of 744 to 330?

[Keg]

12:4 every four weeks is the general rule. It's not always that way. I suspect some months there won't be A330 S/Os.

[abozic]

does anyone know of anyone who has been given a january 11 start date? Just trying to work out if the Friday start-A330 , Monday start-744 rule will apply going into 2008?

[mango777]

Hi!
I'm just wondering how long people have been waiting for a start date since their letter of intent to employ... Also how long between reference checks and start dates... Also if anyone knows the dates of the febuary / march start dates... Thanks

[FullySickBro]

I just got the call up for an 8th Feb start. Referees were called on Friday and received the call on the Monday.

They won't specify which type, can anyone verify the Airbus course starting on the Friday??

[mango777]

The general impression is that fridays are airbus and mondays are boeing but hey it is qantas and anything could probably happen... congrats, when did you get your letter of intent?

[On Guard]

So if you get on the A330, how long before you can bid/get on the 744, works better for me as have to commute.

[Poto]

So if you get on the A330, how long before you can bid/get on the 744, works better for me as have to commute.

As soon as you have the seniority to get a window on 744 or they get rid of the 330 before then and have to slide you over to somewhere else.

Unless you come from a Qantas regional you will not have staff travel for the first 6 months, Plenty of commuters on the the Bus.

Hope this helps. :ok:

[Capt Fathom]

So if you get on the A330, how long before you can bid/get on the 744, works better for me as have to commute.

Fancy having to move to earn all that money! The indignity of it all.
Such an inconvenience! :{ :rolleyes:
GA was never this bad.

[FullySickBro]

Cheers Mango, never actually received a letter of intent, more of a hold file letter. A phone call out of the blue requesting updated medicals and referees was my only indication my application was moving ahead.

3100 TT on Cessna single and twin, Chieftains and Beech 1900s.

Am I the only one not particularly bothered by what they fly- they all look big and shiney to me?? :}

[podbreak]

On guard, with things the way they are, you'd be looking at an FO prom before a different CP rating.

[Bendo]

Keg

Number I was told was 300/year for the next 3 years - that's 25/month. Allegedly this came straight from the CP's mouth.

Is your 12-16 just for 744, or just for A330?

[On Guard]

Thanks, would live in SYD for first 6-12 mths then commute.

So confirming if you get A330 you will be there a few years.

From what I gather A330 roster difficult to commute.

[Mstr Caution]

Bendo

160 Average per year for 5 years, all types

180 per year is about the max capacity at present:8

[lahso29]

1.does anyone know if the jan and feb courses were friday/monday starts?? A330/B744
2.what dates have people been given for march and April???

[FO FRIZZ]

Dates for March courses are Monday 10 & Tuesday 11. Anyone know which is Boeing/Airbus?:ok:

[drshmoo]

From what I gather A330 roster difficult to commute

Well people. From my course of 6 on the A330 starting in Aug. One guy commutes from Brissy and one from Melbourne. The rostering is so light at the moment I could commute from Mars and still make it to work.

As far as bidding across once on the A330 to the 744. Why? For starters that would require double training and unless they pack up the A330 fleet that wont happen (20 on order). On the B744 you work harder and prob will earn a little more but unless you NEED to go to London or Frankfurt then its no big deal. My flights are generally north/south (when I go to work) and when the money really kicks in for 744 S/Os is about 18 months in and by then (according to company propoganda) we will not be too far off an F/O slot.

Good luck too all that get a start and likewise to those trying.

[strobe12]

The only way you can change fleet staying as an S.O is if there is a new type introduced ie A380 (intially taking s/o's off the 330) or if they reduce the numbers in the fleet ie 747 or if they flying changes for that type, eg 767 (but thats a different story:}).

Apart from that they will not allow it (as far as i know, correct me if iam wrong)

Commuting on the A330 is quite easy. Perth would be a bit iffy, dont know of anyone who does that as an S.o but YBBN/YMML/YPAD all very doable.

Usually the folks going onto the A330 will start a the day before the 744.

[lahso29]

what about april courses???

i know there is one on monday the 11th?

a330/744???

[LuckyQ]

Can anyone comment on why change the course dates for March to Mon & Tues. rather than the standard Fri. and Mon. start dates?

Can we still assume Mon. start will be for A330 and Tues the 747.

I've got March 11th start date.

Experience: 3500 hours TT, 2000 hours multi turbo prop

[OZBorn]

I've heard that a lot of people were complaining about having to start on Friday because they were away from their loved ones for another 2 days needlessly. It's possible that they have listened to this and just shifted everything to the right. Anyone received an Apr start yet?

[xXmuffin0manXx]

Congrats to all you who got their start dates

i was just wondering how long it has taken

you to get to this stage and which path you took

to get your current hours ie went bush or regional etc

thanks

[FullySickBro]

Muffin man it was a long farquing windy path that went backwards several times I'm sure, but now that I think of it I wouldn't have had it any other way :}

[PaddyPaddy]

What is the pay like for an SO and any ideas as to the upgrade time to FO?

[lahso29]

so the course's are:

March Mon 10th
Tues 11th

April Mon 7th

anyone know if it will be tues 8th as well or back to fri 4th??

[Keg]

What is the pay like for an SO and any ideas as to the upgrade time to FO?

There are many threads on PPRUNE which give very specific numbers. A search should find them. The quick and dirty version is:

$80K-120K over the first three years depending on aircraft type. Three to six years depending on many things.

[Benn]

You blokes know anyone on the 11th of feb course? What aircraft type? i also here there are crew starting on the 12th? mine is the 11th

Was wondering if i should pack my bags for pies and pints or gyozo's

[OZBorn]

Tuesday the 8th Apr is confirmed. As far as pay goes don't forget that you start on a training wage somewhere in the vicinity of $2500 per month for the first few months before you are checked to line.

[Duff Shark]

hey guys,

just did my sim/interview last week, fingers crossed all went well. I think the behaviour based interview is difficult to get feedback if you are saying things that they want or digging your own grave. Also i did heaps of prep for the interview and sim and the first question i got asked was "tell us what you did to prepare" so i had to spill all the secret beans.

I understand that the proceedure has changed a bit over the last few months, as now QF requires crim check, OPG before interview. In light of this can anyone who has been through the process in the last 3 months tell me how long it was till they got a call/letter after interview.

fingers crossed

DS

[777Monkey]

Has anyone been called for an April start yet???

Cheers

Monkey

[mango777]

Hey Everyone... finally got a start April 7th. Cant Wait... Anyone know if mondays are still 747 etc...

[OZBorn]

Request that any of the guys that are set to start on the Feb 11 and 12th courses advise us all of what type you are on and what day that you started when you find out.

[almostthere!]

In addition can someone confirm if they are still starting on the 8th Feb or if they have been moved to the 12th Feb?

Cheers.

[34R]

You wont find out type until you front up for your first day. As has been mentioned (and was so in my case) those who start the course first get the 330. If start days are now Mon and Tue, the bus boys are first cab off the rank. Not withstanding there still may be courses of purely 744 positions so at the end of the day who really knows.

I must say I was initially a little let down when I was told I'd be flying with a sidestick, really had my heart set on the queen of the skies. But now that the dust has settled I must say I wouldn't have it any other way, for now anyway. If you can get over the obvious pay difference the route structure is fantastic and length of trips don't see you away for very long at all (compared to 744). The crews are a pleasure to fly with, most if not all endorsements are being done in Hong Kong now (awesome fun) and as the majority of flights are North/South the body clock copes quite easily. For those that elect to commute, that too is quite easy, at least when staff travel kicks in.

It's all horses for courses I guess and ultimately what you take away from your time on either type comes down to your attitude.

Hope you all get what you want:ok:

[No1Dear]

Hey all,
If anyone could share some recent info on their interview/sim experience that would be great.

PM is fine to avoid the thread drift,
thanks

[lemel]

Hi folks,

got sim and interview at the end of feb. so if anyone has any info and is sending a pm to No1Dear could you send it my way to. it would be greatly appreciated:ok:

by the way - congrats to all that have got through. enjoy every minute of it!!!!:D

LemeL

[OZBorn]

So what's the goss with aircraft types? A course started this week. Can anyone shed some light on what type was on Monday's intake and what was on Tuesdays?

[Watch My Form]

Who gives a toss, take what you are given and get on with it. Either way you look at it (A330 or B744) I am sure it will be than the situation you are in now.

:ok:

[Brown Cow]

About how long did you guys have to wait after your interview to find out you were in?

[OZBorn]

Who gives a toss

I Do.

Either way you look at it (A330 or B744) I am sure it will be than the situation you are in now.

You know my situation do you?

I am interested because the 744 has a different rostering setup than the
A330.
I am interested because you generally get more allowances due to overtime on the 744.
I am interested on behalf of all the other prospective candidates who will be starting their conversions in the next few months.
So, politely pull your head in and don't waste thread space by inserting useless posts like yours.

[lemel]

i dont know about 1500 over 6 years. that works out to be 250 a year!

a mate of mine got in and was shown the figures of what they will be recruiting for the next 3 years. it was 100 or 150 per year for 3 years (i cant remember the exact number).

but he could be wrong. therefore so could i. i personally hope you are right strobe, that would very good news for all:ok:

happy flying folks

LemeL

[h.o.t.a.s.]

Hi all,

Has anybody else recieved start dates for April? Perhaps May or June also???

I've got a letter of intent (few weeks gone by now, waiting patiently/nervously) and the missus is getting sick of sweeping fingernails off the floor...:bored:

h.o.t.a.s.

[Brown Cow]

Hey HOTAS, i'm in the same boat. Got letter of intent 3 weeks ago, and still waiting!!!! (but lovin it)

[777Monkey]

Got the magic call a day ago for an 8th of April start, which is a Tuesday!!!!!!

[h.o.t.a.s.]

Good Stuff...

How long was the wait from letter of intent, to ref checks, to start date??

Might have to change names to 747monkey!

[777Monkey]

Basically 8 weeks from letter of intent to ref checks and 4 weeks from ref checks to start date. The 8 weeks has been long though!!!! :rolleyes: Hopefully the next 4 go really fast :ok:

Mind you there was xmas and new years in between.

It might have to change to 747Monkey, either one is just as good :)

[Tempo]

"I am interested because you generally get more allowances due to overtime on the 744"

Allowance payments on slips have nothing to do with overtime payments

[oneday_soon]

Can anyone tell me which sim the sim ride is flown in. Is it the 767 or 747?

Cheers

[lemel]

767-300er:}

and by the way, my post earlier is incorrect as I found out first hand. hr lady told me 250-260 pilots being hired per year.

[cessna_dave]

242 new recruits exactly 08/09 fin year

from the chief pilot himself (via a friend)

[777Monkey]

Just curious if anyone is starting on the 7th of April???

Is QF still recruiting for A330?????

[Keg]

Rumours that the four guys slated for the A330 that started either last month or in the last couple of days have been switched to the 744 and now have a few weeks off before their ground school starts. Lack of sim time on A330 anywhere apparently.

Heard it third hand at Breakky in LHR so it may not be accurate!

[fumes]

I heard QF are looking to recruit 10 guys per month for the next 2 years. Does anybody know how credible this is?

[mase]

More like 4 a week for the next 2+ years (from the CP)

[Friction Nut]

This topic was started in another thread only a few days ago... Various figures have been thrown around... such numbers like 400+ per year to 200 per year. They are all massive numbers so not sure how credible any of them are really.

If these large numbers are true, what would be interesting to know is how peple are shaping up in the psych tests. With the current demand are they taking people that they wouldn'y have looked at several years ago or is the psych test just a formality these days?

[dreamjob]

I know of one guy who didn't make it into QF. Has ATPLs, heaps of multi time, etc.

They can't be that desperate or he must've screwed up the interview/sim big time.

[Poto]

I know of one guy who didn't make it into QF. Has ATPLs, heaps of multi time, etc.

They can't be that desperate or he must've screwed up the interview/sim big time.

If you stuff the selection process you will not get a job. VB is the same, lots of drivers missing out. These companies already have a crew shortage they don't want added liability with crew that don't meet the criteria they have set out or risk the additional costs associated with getting this person over the line when the time comes to promote.

Getting an interview does not mean a job, even in a crew shortage!:=

Study like you need the gig, Not like they need you:ok:

[Friction Nut]

You make a really good point poto. It is the only appraoach to take if your serious about it... But, are QF more likely to put you through to the sim and interview today, to get a more overall picture of you, than they would have done 5 or 6 years ago? Given the current demand...

It would seem sensible too... There are lots of good people, good multi crew operators, and pilots out there that just cant sell themselves all that well in front of a computer console. No matter how much study.

[blow.n.gasket]

What's happened to recruiting ,is there still to be a couple of hundred pilots to be employed over the next few years ?
What about what "old scrotum face" said reference a recruiting freeze in Qantas thanks to a barrel of oil now costing over the "TON".
Does this freeze apply to pilots?
Is Jetstar still recruiting?
Anybody!

[Poto]

But, are QF more likely to put you through to the sim and interview today, to get a more overall picture of you, than they would have done 5 or 6 years ago? Given the current demand.

That would seem more logical but I am not a recruiter:(

VB added a sim stage after employing a couple of shockers they are now stuck with. They pass but its a line call!:uhoh: Quantity may be down but if you provide a good balance of $/life style etc you will attract the quality you want.:ok:

[Gotnogoals]

CaptainToBe????? what the @$%*
I would seriously conscider losing that name if you get a start with QF.
Some of the old boys will make sure you never live it down.....Forever CaptainToBe.

[Mstr Caution]

Blown N Gasket

The recruitment ban does not apply to mainline pilots.

MC:8

[Ducksbum]

Any QF SO's out there willing to talk about the company off line. I'm a RAAFie debating whether to jump ship.

Cheers.

[Ultergra]

Hey all,

Just a quick question for all those who have recently been through the Qantas recruitment process.

Once you have received your letter of intent, and given the time period in month's of when you can expect to have a start date given to you, how accurate have they been? Lets say you were told April to June... was it more to the April side when you got your start date, or was closer to June??

I am just wondering if their recruitment is starting to slow down with such a huge influx of new pilots or whether they are able to continue training at such a high work rate.

Cheers :ok:

[Gotnogoals]

It is only a new thing that they give you a date range and it does not mean employment between these dates. It only means that they expect to have a position in these months, therefore it could even be longer than they expected. I know two people who got their letters of intent last week only to find that they should expect a start date in September.
It seems that QF are getting their hands on everyone they can so people wont start with any other company. I think pilots will slowly wake up to this concept of getting a job but not starting for over 6 months later and maybe think about other majors. What happens after 6 months of waiting and QF says we are not hiring due to fuel costs??

[MaxHelixAngle]

Seems to be very quiet on the QF front.
Anyone have any news? Any start dates?

MHA

[Dragun]

The recruitment ban does not apply to mainline pilots.


Wrong. I know for a fact that every new pilot has to be signed off by the big men due to the hiring freeze.

[mmmbop]

240 pilots for the next financial year.

The sign off is a formality. Techies fall under the 'operational exemption' in the hiring freeze. No point having lots of jets if you haven't got someone to fly them. Far more important than some tosser pen-pusher....




M

[ilovemycessna]

Hi,

little bit of a diversion, i sat my satge 2 (mouse clicking) about a week ago, they said three weeks till i find out. wondering if anyone has done testing lately and how long it took.

only because i am checking my email 20 times a day.

thanks in advance

[Mstr Caution]

Dragun,

And..........the "big men" are signing off on their recruitment.

End result no freeze on tech crew recruitment, mmbop is correct.

Ilovemycessna
I hope the phych component doesn't assess for excessive compulsive disorders.

mc:8

[Ref + 10]

It would seem that ilovemycessna doesn't really at all.....

[Keg]

I wonder if he or she will change the handle to ilovemyboeing or ilovemyairbus if they get a gig! :p :ok:

[skippa]

Hey everyone...
Anyone heard of any courses running in May?
Have had the letter of intent since mid Feb.
Starting to get very anxious as I have heard nothing.
Anyone else in the same boat?

[oldschooljenko]

Hey Skippa,
I'm in the same boat for sure. Got the letter of intent 14 Feb and haven't heard anything since. Was starting to think they have forgotten about me

[Friction Nut]

There is a May course. I believe it starts on the 5th. Not 100% on the date but there is definately a May course...

Perhaps call them up... Give em a nudge...

[Dragun]

Mstr Caution and mmmbop

If pilots are still having to be signed off, then they're really not 'exempt' are they? Just because they're currently being signed off, doesn't mean it will keep happening. We all know how dynamic things can be. How do you know every other department's recruiting isn't currently being signed off also? The reason for the 'recruitment freeze' is due to increased fuel costs next financial year. Fuel is only hedged until mid this year. It could be a very different story with how many get signed off come July.

If pilot's came under the 'operational exemption' - then they'd be exempt from having to be signed off - which they're not. It's really that simple.

Also, please let me know what an 'excessive compulsive disorder' is? Unless you meant obsessive compulsive of course...:D


There is definitely a May course on the 5th. I know a guy who got called 2 weeks ago to be put on it, he's had his letter since late Feb.

[jaffac]

Hi all,

Can anyone share any light on the recruitment days? I got an invite but by the time I got to register they had closed registration. Do you think there will be another opportunity?? So hard to tell as you can't actually speak to anyone at head office! :ugh:

[Keg]

With recently advertised promotional slots showing 112 F/O slots (without considering residual slots) over the next 12 months then we're going to need at least 112 S/Os to fill those vacancies.

[Gotnogoals]

Apparently july and august courses have been cancelled so they can clear the backlog.

[almostthere!]

Can anyone confirm the previous post?

[Dragun]

Pretty sure it's true. Recently got a letter with a 'later in the year' start expectation and when I enquired (as to why much later than recent predecessors) I was told that a lot of letters are going to be resent with delayed expected start dates. Forecast recruitment numbers have been downsized considerably. Thanks fuel prices, really appreciate that.

[Grnd Hog]

July courses were deferred - not canx. Due to backlog in training.
August still going ahead. (end of July start date)
Rest of the year still on track.

[Rhodes13]

Hi was wondering if someone could help me.

Just got a letter of intent from QF and it says you need to get all the checks done and the mouth xray but doesnt say how to go about it.

So my questions is do you wait until QF give you the go ahead or do you go on and start the process anyway?

Sent an email to HR but no response yet.

[Keg]

Just got a letter of intent from QF and it says you need to get all the checks done and the mouth xray but doesnt say how to go about it.

I've always had a theory that this is a sneaky part of the QF selection process. Not tell you how to go about it is part of the process and if you can't work it out on your own then you're obviously not going to be able to hack it as a QF driver! :ok:

In all seriousness, most reputable dentists can do the x-rays. What other checks are they talking about that will present a problem? Records of exam passes for ATPLs? Pay the dollars CASA- or whoever it is that does them these days- will send you a transcript.

[Route-me]

G'day guys,

just a question, it seems that some blokes are getting called up to do the psych tests with the interview and sim, whilst others just get a call for the psych tests. Anyone know why QF offer this to some and not others?

cheers

[Mr. Hat]

Must be a recent practice. I've never heard of that one.

Keg any ideas?

Hell of a preparation to do it all in one!

[Keg]

News to me but I'm not that current on the recruiting practises used these days. A bit busy on a minor other project at the moment! :O Directanywhere's explanation seems eminently plausible. :D

[Friction Nut]

I have heard the same, and have been told typically that if your from out of town like keg sugested, then your more likely to do the whole process in one hit.

So...., if the next few courses have been cancelled, does this change there forecast requirments of about 200 per year? Or 20 per month as has been the case.

[OBNO]

I believe the next few courses were cancelled due lack of available A330 Simulator time. QF A330 sims fully booked and none available overseas.

[Gotnogoals]

Quote:
July courses were deferred - not canx. Due to backlog in training.
If your saying the next course is Aug then what happened to July? It must have been cancelled, or are they running two courses in Aug to make up for it. Ps was told by QF rep that Aug is also deferred/cx and next course will be sept.

[Grnd Hog]

deferred means picked up later - canx means - well canx.
Aug is running.
Extra slots to make up for Jul later in the year -

[oldschooljenko]

I heard today off a qantas employee (works in reservations) that there was an announcement from management that there is a complete employment freeze for the foreseeable future. Can anyone confirm or deny this? (hope not, been sitting on a letter of intent since feb!!)

[Keg]

This has been discussed on other threads.

1. Yes there is a freeze.
2. It doesn't apply to 'critical' positions.
3. Pilots and F/As are part of those 'critical' positions.

[pa28capt]

The skipping of one month recruitment is probably due to the fact the current course has had the last month off due to lack of Training Captains. This should clear the backlog over the next month or so.

[Route-me]

Hey Keg, does today's announcement change your view on the pilot recruitment freeze?

[Keg]

Not one zot. The training allocations were published today. There are 112 S/Os on the 744 and A330 who have been allocated upgrades in the next financial year and need to be replaced on those aircraft types. Those particular fleets aren't decreasing in size and in fact the A330 fleet is scheduled to expand.....at least until any new announcement that may or may not arrive. Therefore I reckon there is scope for at least 112 new S/Os to join QF before mid next year. In reality it could be a few more.

Nothing to worry about.....yet!

[Poto]

Got a few of Dugongs that will need some S/O's too. The Sky is not going falling in just yet? Qantas will still need plenty of crew in the next fin yr. We might have to get some Yarpies or Yanks though, not enough qualified in Aust apparently:confused::ugh::{

[captainjumb0]

qantas is not worth!!:eek:

[Tankengine]

Yeah, whatever!:rolleyes:

[Barons Forever]

Had interview and sim about 5 weeks ago. Haven't heard anything as yet. Is there anyone who is in a similar situation? Has any one heard anything?

[Bendo]

Haven't spoken to him for a few days but a mate of mine went through Sim and Interview about 2 weeks ago, was told 4 weeks.

He also did everything - sim, interview, medical, and security checks - over 2 days! Back when I did all that mallarky in 2001 it was very drawn out :ugh:

Is this the new way?

[Route-me]

Anyone out there who have been invited for Psychometric Assessment in June / July also been invited for Sim / Med / Interview at the same time?

[Koizi]

My process was particularly drawn out.

Application update submitted - Nov 07
Aptitude Testing - Mid Feb 08
Interview/Sim - Early April 08
Letter of intent (for start between oct-dec 08) - Received mid/late May - six weeks after interview.
I have reason to believe there were some delays incurred in contacting my referees.
But people have also got responses after two weeks as well...so who really knows. My feeling is that is depends on their work load at the time of processing.
Good luck to all.

[3000+TT, 600+ Multi - PA31 RPT]

[Watch My Form]

Koizi, what is your background (aviation)?

Cheers. :ok:

[Mr. Hat]

anyone have any info on the 'all in one' process?

for example if the psych doesnt match the profile do they cancel the interview and sim? has anyone had this happen?

a mate said that lmaybe ess emphasis is being placed on the psych these days....

[Route-me]

for example if the psych doesnt match the profile do they cancel the interview and sim? has anyone had this happen?

i believe that the is no right / wrong or profile QF are seeking in the personality and motivation questionnaires, they dictate what batch of questions the interviewers ask...

as for the maths, english, cubes and sequences tests, you not only have to score above a set benchmark in ALL of them, but you are also given a rank amongst other competitors and this is used to assess whether you progress past stage 2...

[Mr. Hat]

and if you miss the bench mark for one or two of the skills i assume they cancel the sim and interview?

some say the psyche profile is the major factor in eliminating someone from the race.

[Long John Silver]

On the topic of flying over to Sydney for the interview process, wondering what peoples opinions of practice sims are? A few people I know at work have done them and are encouraging me to do one. Quite pricey though - about $1500 I think. I'd love not to have to fork out that kind of cash but anecdotally it would seem the guys who do them have a much higher pass rate. Any opinions out there?

[FullySickBro]

Long John,

IMHO if you are IFR current-as in regularly file IFR plans, regularly fly approaches etc. not just the minimum to stay current- then I'd say go for it without forking out for a practise sim somewhere as it is a straight forward IFR exercise... However if you've been bashing round VFR a fair bit then it might pay to practise in the sim or at the very least on a PC version... If I were the latter case then I'd definitely look at sim time as the $1500 is peanuts for a job you will likely see out your career in...

My thoughts relate to my sim on the 767 and my previous experience hand flying 19 seat turboprops. However I heard somewhere the classic is being used for the sim ride now?? If so, someone who did their sim on the Classic might care to comment??

Cheers

[mustangranch]

I did my Sim on 12th of May in the 747 classic. SO yes they're using that now also. Just STD 6 instruments. Follow the numbers, listen to the tips in the breifing (ie machmeter as trend on speed) and you'll be fine! I've been waiting now for 4 and a bit weeks and still no word. Does anybody know if they contact references prior to letter of intent?!

[Dragun]

Some have their references checked prior to LOI, some don't. I had mine checked about 3 weeks after sim/int and didn't get a LOI until 2 weeks after that.

[campdoag]

I heard course starting 28th july with 744, 330 and Dugong slots..... Anyone heard when the next course after this one will be???

[pylet]

The next course is on the 28th July but not sure of any confimed courses after that. Seems as if the July course will have intakes on all 3 aircraft types (744, 380, 330).
As far as how PR works at QF, my best bit of advice is not to read into anything too much. Some applicants are informed of their assessment/s within days, others over several weeks. Having waited for days and many weeks for results during the process myself I understand the nail-biting frustration and nervous gut each time the phone rings! There is no system as to when you are informed, everyone on my course found out at different periods following each stage of selection.
To QF PRs credit, they have been and (I believe) still are, under-staffed and working hard to get through every applicant and their results one by one.
Hope this helps settle the nerves of those who have been waiting to hear back for a while - DON'T READ TOO MUCH INTO IT!!

[Grnd Hog]

Courses are run every 4 weeks - thereabouts!
:ok: And will continue to run.

[campdoag]

Hey Grnd Hog, do you know which aircraft they will be training for on the august course?? Will it be the same as the July course ie 744 380 330

[nickaussie]

Hey All,

does anyone have any experience with applying for the cadetship from last year? How long does it usually take from applying to getting contacted for stage two?

Cheers,

N

[Equatorial]

Has anyone had the magic call from Recruitment in the last two months?

If so are there any courses running in August or September?

Does anyone know what the typical time line is between LOI to Ref chex to start date??

I've been told when you do get the call they ask you what your type preference is! The A380 is apparently the aircraft of choice.

Cheers for any replies

:ok:

[Keg]

The A380 is apparently the aircraft of choice

:eek:

Big plane syndrome? :confused: :ugh:

[Equatorial]

Has anyone heard anything at all?

Maybe everyone is busy chewing their nails to the bone waiting??

:confused:

[Chuck_YeagerBomb]

just a drift...
guys quick question is the psych testing (numerical, spatial, verbal etc.) negatively marked or did you find the best thing was to guess the questions that didnt get answered?

[desmotronic]

Chuck, ive been told it is negatively marked from a reasonably good source.

[Bendo]

Desmotronic,

Sorry mate I don't know who your source is, but I am going to contradict you.

My dear sweet baby sister is a Psych specialising in recruitment for a major international recruitment firm, PDI Coyne.

When you do the tests you will notice that each one has a code name, eg: the OPQ (Occupational Preferences Questionnaire) or the SPQ 14 or whatever. Last time I went through these tests (yes under the current sustem) I took some notice of these codes and discussed them with her later.

These are all standard products from SHL and in my sister's experience none of them are negatively marked - and further, it is her opinion that it would be unethical for them to be negatively marked without notifying the candidate of that fact before the test.

She also noted that it is obvious when you answer the last 30 questions in 15 seconds that you are guessing :=

Equatorial, a friend of mine went through the same sim sessions as Firecracker (a Thursday night, Building evacuated?) in late May. Firecracker has been given "the letter" (the good one) and my mate tells me he received some positive indications from QCC3 today.

So it sounds like there is some movement there. Good luck! :ok:

[desmotronic]

Bendo,
Thanks mate, see how we go!

[Equatorial]

Onya Bendo thats tops

Firecracker if you are here when was the time frame that was stated on the intent letter?

:ok:

[Angle of Attack]

Latest word from management meeting is that recruitment will continue as forecast this year and into next year, but at a slightly slower rate than originally planned (about 30% less as I understood it) Good luck! :ok:

[2dotsright]

Someone will probably know the answer to this. That 'Cadet Programme' that QF run and advertises, do they take any RAW graduates, ie. NO flying experience at all, what's the deal? Do they finance it from go to whoa or what? Not for me, too late for that , but a young person I know was asking. Thanks for any info, I looked at the site but it wasn't really too clear on that aspect. Thanks.

[Bendo]

OK I shot my mouth off (again)
:ouch::ugh:

Little sister informs me that all they (PDI) get from SHL is # of q's attempted and #q's correct.

SO if you attempt 270 of 300 mathematical questions and get 260 correct there isn't much to be gained in guessing the last 30 in a mad orgasm of mouse-clicking.

Best of luck Chaps and Chapettes :ok:

[Keg]

do they take any RAW graduates, ie. NO flying experience at all, what's the deal?

Yes but you had want to at least demonstrate an interest in the job. Besides that, if you don't love flying it's a tiring boring job that has you away from your nearest and dearest a LOT.

Do they finance it from go to who or what?

Nope. They don't finance a red cent. You need to access FEE HELP or HECS in order to have the costs assisted with. I know very little about those things.

[TruBlu351]

Equatorial, a friend of mine went through the same sim sessions as Firecracker (a Thursday night, Building evacuated?) in late May. Firecracker has been given "the letter" (the good one) and my mate tells me he received some positive indications from QCC3 today.

Arrrgh! That damn fire alarm! "Please leave the building" Noooooooooo :}

Same group, LOI yesterday for approx Oct-Dec.

[podbreak]

The A380 is apparently the aircraft of choice

If you really enjoy LA!

[Transition Layer]

What's not to enjoy? From the sounds of it, the boys are REALLY enjoying the new hotel...smack bang in the OC...Silicon Heaven!!! :ok:

[indamiddle]

check staff travel, A380 operating QF31 from february next year (but not daily)

[hungry_flygal]

The letter of intent is separate to, and usually after the stage 4 notification. It'll come after you do your medical/sim/interview and is titled "letter of intent". It notifies you that you have made it through the medical/sim/interview and of an expected start date, pending reference checks, security checks and whatever else still needs to be done.

[Route-me]

Anyone know how many are being recruited per month as opposed to how many are given an invite to assessment?

[Keg]

Normally 12-16 a month.....as it's been for the last 12 months and as it'll be for probably the next 12 months.

[campdoag]

Can anyone in the know or on the inside..... perhaps you grnd hog, tell us if the latest jobcuts/recruiting freeze will effect courses and mainline pilot recruitment this year?

[Grnd Hog]

Its more like 8-12 a month at the moment. Emphasis being on 8.
Lets wait and see if there are any changes. I believe it will still continue, due to A380 and new bases starting up.

[Keg]

It'll take a while for this to work it's way through. Deferral of training slots will probably be the first that line drivers know about it and that hasn't happened as yet although given it's only been a couple of days since the announcement that's not unexpected.

My opinion is a scenario along the lines of Ground Hogs. Recruiting will continue but instead of being the 'panic' of 16 a month it'll be 50-75% of that number. This is a good thing anyway as the system wasn't coping particularly well with the higher numbers. I just hope they keep pushing through the training captains during this 'slow down' because they're still desperately short of them.

The other interesting thing is the lack of specific detail. I think Ben Sandilands even mentioned this regarding the announcement. No specifics as to aircraft to be retired or the time frame in which it will be done.

The interesting part of all of this is the 787 acquisition. Given J* already has relatively new equipment in the A330 and it's supposedly working for them, perhaps QF may become the initial type operator of the 787. It'll enable QF to retire the significantly more thirsty 767 fleet and reinvigorate the domestic product which is currently yielding better than the J* operation. It'll lower the average age of the 'group' fleet in the short term and still leave J* with a relatively efficient aircraft to continue to fly to the 'softening' (according to Geoff himself) international tourist markets. Of course if J* can't make those markets work with the A330 and the 787 makes the difference then it's a very marginal route to start off with. In that case you'd probably make better money with that 787 asset in different colours on the mainline network. :E

It's a bit like the 777, maybe if I say it often enough it'll come true! :ok: :rolleyes:

[flyinghigh53]

Rumour has it that the August course may be cancelled in light of the recent announcements from management. Anyone with any additional info?

[Grnd Hog]

Rumour - Incorrect!

[almostthere!]

From what I have heard, rumour correct!!! Phone calls went out saying course has been cancelled due to recent announcements.

[Elk McPherson]

It's rumours like this that make me glad I didn't tell my current employer what I was doing in Sydney that day... :rolleyes:

[Grnd Hog]

Course has been reduced - not canx.

[BackInTheSaddle]

Hey Ground Hog,

Do you know how much the August course has been reduced? Is this is a permanent reduction or just for the August course?

Thanks
BITS

[Bendo]

Mate of mine spoke to someone from pilot recruiting yesterday - they told him that the advice they have received from up the tree is, for the moment, business as usual.

They are also expecting that to change but they don't know how. :bored:

[flyinghigh53]

Got confirmation from a mate in QF, August course has been halved. One half to start in August, the other most likely September. This is not due to the recent job cut announcements, rather the huge back log of sim slots and a lack of check and training captains.

[Mstr Caution]

FlyingHigh53.

Correct & an indication of the shortage of simulator time on the 744 is that CASA exempted the SO's on the aircraft from one of their sim cyclics.

Also that there are 4 SO's on each ground school simulator session as opposed to the usual two.

MC:8

[Mstr Caution]

Keg,

I think your right in regard to the 767 & the 787.

The cost of operating aircraft does not neccessarily dictate where airframes will go (mainline versus J*)

Brand image & public perception will also play a part!!

If public perception sways in the direction highlighted but the Daily Telegraph (ie: "Rust Buckets"). Mainline will then have to react to this perception & fix the problem.

In favour of this (for mainline) is the soon to appear A380 in Qantas livery. But this will do nothing for the punters flying around on the thirsty 767's or 744's with unreliable IFE's.

MC:8

[BackInTheSaddle]

Hi FlyingHigh53,

Do you know if the August course has been notified yet?

If they have, then I guess that means that I am not on it!:(

Cheers
BITS

[Dragun]

August course has definitely been notified and has not been halved, just 2 slots have been taken off.

September course to be notified as soon as the go ahead is given for recruitment again following the job cut announcements.

[flyinghigh53]

hey BackInTheSaddle,

As far as I'm aware the August course has been notified...I would hope so considering we're quickly approaching the end of July.

[nickaussie]

Hey,

anyone hanging out for '09 level 1 cadetships?

I applied for associates swinburne, and did my psych/skills last monday and interview/medical on tuesday [got the early go-through], now just waiting for my Class 1 to get underway from this thursday.

any other experiences?

good luck all!

[Ear Muffs]

Just heard. Qantas needs 210 pilots in next 12 months:ok:

[Horatio Leafblower]

Ear muffs,

I have about 600 hours on the C206 but only 40 or so on the 210.

Do you think I could still get in? :uhoh:

... and how many C210 pilots do you think they'll want? :confused:













ok... hat.. coat.... door over there isn't it? :hmm:

[Around The Traps]

G'day guys,

Has anyone heard what's happening with the courses for the rest of the year?
Are they cutting down the numbers etc etc

Thanks

ATT

[DarkBlue]

Hi guys

I got the everything in two days testing deal late in August. If all gos well is it likely I will have to wait till the end of November after all the other stage 3 candidates have passed through before hearing if I will be offered a flight test.

Or is it likely they will let me know sooner. My main concern is that if Im not going to be offered a place I would like to go ahead and do my instrument rating and get out into the workforce. And if I have to burn a couple of months not knowing that would slow me down a bit.

Do Qantas ussually wait till all cadet applicants have been through the system before they let people know if they made it through to the flight test

Thanks for any replies

[BIG PISTON]

G'Day All,
Heading in for Psycho testing with QF for direct entry soon.
What timeline are people waiting for news on their success on this stage?
A few friends who have been through in recent times have done the "abstract reasoning' sequences in the diagramatic reasoning test as opposed to the commands. Anyone been through recently, would appreciate your info.

Good luck to all in the process
BP

[Dragun]

I find it strange that they're still getting people in for not only sim/interview DE but also for psych and skills. Given that this week they called all the people with letters of intent advising it'll be 6-8 weeks before they find out if recruitment will continue at all and if so, how many they'll be taking in the revised figures, I guess it can only be good news that they're still booking people in for stage 2 and 3.

Time will tell I guess. In the meantime it's frustrating as hell.

[Nards]

DarkBlue,
How long was it for you between putting in your application to being notified of a date for stage 2/3? Sent you a PM but thought there might be others interested as well.

Cheers
Nards

[Route-me]

Given that this week they called all the people with letters of intent advising it'll be 6-8 weeks before they find out if recruitment will continue at all and if so, how many they'll be taking in the revised figures

can someone / others who has a letter of intent confirm this? :{

[Dragun]

Doesn't need to be confirmed - I received that phone call and have spoken to 2 others who did as well.

They're possibly waiting for the results of EBA 8. If it goes through it'll mean more flying per SO and will lower the requirements for as many pilots.

[Around The Traps]

G'day guys,

I received a letter of intent in June and haven't received any such call and I know of another bloke who is in the same boat.
Obviously they haven't called everyone yet.

[Rhodes13]

Dragun no offence mate i would say it does need to be confirmed. How long have you been sitting on your letter?

Im also sitting on a letter of intent (since April/MAy) have haven't heard didley from these boys. It would be kinda nice to know in case they do shut it down I could move on!

If true bit annoyed as they have gone and contacted my current employer asking for references. This could leave me with egg on my face and I wont be a happy camper.

Keg might be the person in the know. I can't understand why they would be shutting down recruitment if they are still interviewing. The mind boggles sometimes!

[campdoag]

It's true.... I got the call dragun got on friday arvo. Have been sitting on a letter of intent since early may.

Spoke to Michael the manager of the department and he stated there may be a few "slippages" with the training program depending on the outcome of the announced cut backs and they wouldn't be in a position to comment further for another couple of weeks. He did say not to worry too much and to give him a call in a couple of weeks if I hadn't heard anything. He then asked me for my fleet preference and the minimum amount of notice I would need. Not all doom and gloom just yet boys and girls....

Rhodes13 when did they check your references? they havent checked mine as yet.

[Dragun]

No offence taken. I guess they haven't got around to calling everyone yet so you'll probably get a call this week. They also asked the question of fleet preference and time needed to resign from current employment.

They've contacted plenty of peoples references. I've was told that it's because they're basically wrapping up files so if/when they do receive the word to continue they can start booking courses - basically getting a little ahead I think. I've had a letter since May also.

My prediction is that they'll continue recruiting but at a reduced rate - less people per course than originally planned. As we've seen there are still people being booked in for psych and skills and doing interview and sim so it can't be all bad news for those with a LOI.

[Rhodes13]

Thanks for the heads up guys. I haven't heard a thing so Ill be expecting a cal sometime soon I suppose. Fingers crossed things go on.

Campdoag they started checking references about three weeks ago. Taken a bit of time because Im overseas and the time zones have made it difficult as well as some of my last employers not responding or going out of business.

[gary gearbox]

I got the same call too. Was told to wait for 6-8 weeks until the next call. At that point they will assess recruitment and let everyone know what is going to happen. I did not get asked about aircraft preference though.

GG

[Keg]

I was talking to a colleague earlier today. He suggested that the plan shows 16-20 per month until the end of the calendar year and then 14-16 for the remainder of the FY. About 60 of those slots on the A380 apparently. Total about 170-180 from now until next July.

I don't know his sources and normal disclaimers about this weeks five year plan, etc still apply. At least it's positive news. :ok:

PS: That's all I know. I don't know course start dates, fleet types, etc so please don't expend your energy PM'ing me or asking, I simply don't know.....I may even be completely wrong- but probably not! :}

[Grnd Hog]

completely wrong - correct. - (go study)
That was last months plan!
Recruitment currently on hold until all numbers re-assessed.
Lucky if it will be 4 - 8 per month. (current calendar year)
More info will not be known until next week at the earliest. (this is for Sep courses on) Aug has been advised.
Lots dependant on A380 delivery dates.

Hold Tight - Wait and See! - Lots Happening! :hmm:

[Rhodes13]

So anyone heard anything or is the sounds of tumble weeds still deafening?

[Nards]

Grnd Hog,
Is the 4-8 per month including cadets? If not is the current cadet scheme still going through? I have applied for Autumn 09 course in mid July and not heard anything yet.

Cheers
Nards

[No1Dear]

just the tumble weeds here

[desmotronic]

Maybe so but they are still interviewing.

[czechmate]

At a minimum they will have to hire for the arrival of the next batch of A380's. This will mean approx 50 SO's between about October and this time next year (Assuming no transfers off the 330/744).

Those that have LOI's, there is light at the end of the long tunnel!!

[campdoag]

LongJohnSliver,
hey pal just wanting to confirm... have you recieved a LOI for 2009?? and had you previously had one for a start in 2008... I have not recieved anything other than my original LOI stating oct to dec

[Rhodes13]

any news lads, heard that a course started on the 25/08. Was posted on the cadets thread so just wondering if this is good news or were people all ready notified before the slow down?

[atminimums]

avi8r - I am also wondering the same thing. I received the automated email of receipt of my application this morning and am curious as to when I can expect the call...

Any more details about the phone interview?

[Chuck_YeagerBomb]

i can confirm there is now a phone interview. knew of a person that took it last week, basically just asked some behavioural questions and what he had achieved in his career thus far....

[57GoldTop]

hi atminimums

I never got the call and I did the psych testing recently, I think they only call to discuss your motivation for applying for the course based on your flying experience??. I got an invitation to do the testing via email about 3 weeks after submitting my application, just confirming that there was no phone call at all for me... it may be different in your case

The psych test was not easy, especially the numeric stuff and I never had enough time to complete all parts of the exam ( I don't think you're meant to be able to ). As for the skills test, it wasn't too bad, the only problem I had with it was the slalom exercise where the computer doesn't register input of the joystick when going just off center position... this can contribute to some errors when trying to dodge the markers as they are very close together ( ie.. you have to move the joystick a great deal when it is centered before you actually see yourself move on the screen ).

Best of luck to you and all who applied.

[atminimums]

57 - thanks for the info, much appreciated.

I'll just keep checking the inbox and let you know what happens from here. If I get the phone interview, I'll post with some details afterwards.

Good luck all.

mins :ok:

EDIT: 57, I sent you a PM.

[atminimums]

Just an update - I just received the call from QANTAS pilot recruitment (much quicker than expected) and have been invited down to Sydney for both the psych testing and the panel interview.

Confirm that there was NO phone interview.

mins :ok:

[57GoldTop]

Great to hear. Make sure you get enough sleep the night before if you're going to be doing the testing and interview on the same day.

Good luck.

[Chuck_YeagerBomb]

at mins

just wondering whether you were for cadets or DE? it's unusual that some people are doing phone interviews and some aren't...maybe they are just trialling new processes?


anywho, congrats on getting the call and all the best!!

[phatmike128]

I got an email reply a couple weeks ago and have booked to do the psych/skills testing in a few weeks. No mention of an interview though...

Are you guys applying for direct entry or cadetships?

[atminimums]

chuck - I should have clarified that!

I applied as a cadet. Someone did call me from QF pilot recruitment, but I wouldn't really call it an interview. She asked me a couple of broad question regarding my application and then discussed what comes next (dates for assessment/inverviews etc.) No behavioural questions or anything like that, just a fairly casual phonecall really.

Maybe it just the de guys that are to expect phone interviews? Although I do think I read somewhere that cadets should expect them too.. Ill have another look at my documents

mins :ok:

[czechmate]

Reliable sources indicate about 90 SO slots just for the 380 starting from January. 12 a month.

[Koizi]

Does that mean that there won't be any courses until January, or just not on the A380 till then?
I hope I don't have to wait that long...

[Bo777]

Received an email that recruiting was delayed and management had to make a decision on future course dates within 4 weeks. Can anyone shed some light as to the decision made (or yet to be made) by management regarding future pilot recruitment??? and is this email promising??

[Rhodes13]

Bo777 just wondering when you got your email? I got mine on the 20th of last month stating pretty much exactly the same thing as yours did. So the 4 weeks is pretty much up now!

From the phone conversations I have had with them it could go either way. They did say that they were planning to grow at 8% PA but that has now been reduced to 0% growth for this year. Although other people are saying slots coming up for 90 SO's in January.

In the end if only they would communicate with us it would be much better rather than this crap of chinese whispers that it currently is. But why do i suspect that the red rat doesn't give a stuff about us?

[domo]

[QUOTEn the end if only they would communicate with us it would be much better rather than this crap of chinese whispers that it currently is. But why do i suspect that the red rat doesn't give a stuff about us?[/QUOTE]

welcome to qantas s.o.p.

[Rhodes13]

Sadly like you said it seems to be ops normal. Hopefully we will hear something sooner rather than later. Will be miffed if its a stop though seeing as they have done all reference checking and the like so my current employer knows about it now!

[Dragun]

I've had my references checked twice now but different references both times. The first was before I received my letter of intent a few months ago and the second time was a different reference and only about 6 weeks ago, about 2 weeks before I got that email mentioned above.

I don't think reference checking points in any particular direction anyway because I spoke to a guy yesterday who had his references checked about 3 weeks before he received a 'no' letter.

[Will964]

I spoke to a guy yesterday who had his references checked about 3 weeks before he received a 'no' letter

He should rethink his choice of references! :E

[Rhodes13]

Dragun thats extremely ****ty of the rat then especially if the references were from his current company. Imagine if you were then in a position of being denied upgrade/ shunned promotion because the company knows that you are looking at other jobs.

On the letter of intent it clearly states that reference checking is the last in the line of the process and as such should be an indicator of how far along you are. Especially seeing as I've bent over backwards to get the dam references and been told there was a possibility of a start date earlier than mentioned in the letter of intent. Indeed this was backed up when I sent an email recently asking about progress of my app.

I understand this is a difficult time for airlines but if it so difficult why keep interviewing? Surely the hold pool is big enough now to have people of courses for a decent period of time? Somehow I don't think the left hand knows what the right hand is doing!

[Rhodes13]

QF 747 Pilot 5 posts all on the same day about the same thing! You wouldn't be advertising for business now would you?

The Psych is not hard and all it costs is a couple of decent books and some number crunching. Why pay some guy to do that when you can do it yourself?

Mods any reason not remove a blatant advertisement?:ugh:

[Snatch]

What the fck is hard about the psych testing?

Just do the fckn quiz. If you need help to pass the IQ test, you gotta ask yourself the hard questions. :uhoh:

Passing the IQ test is no guarantee of passing the interview, the Sim, the medical or (as others above have said) the reference check. :ugh:

[TSIO540]

Hi all,

I applied to QF in Nov 07, got invited to psychometric testing in January. I was advised to wait 2 weeks for results, they called me two days later with an interview and sim invite for Feb 08.

I had the sim, interview and medical over two days, then about 4 weeks later I got the dreaded 'not sufficiently competitive to progress to the next stage' letter :ugh:(Next stage being the Letter Of Intent). My letter asked for 6 monthly updates and said i'm entitled to a review after 18 months.:ugh::ugh::{

I wrote back asking for some feedback and got absolutely nothing other than a 'we don't give feedback'

I thought my sim performance was pretty average and some interview answers could have been better.:uhoh:

Has anyone had the same letter / been in the same situation with QF (mainline)?

I've given the first 6 monthly update and heard nothing except wait for the review date.

[CPL, 1700TT, 150ME at first application, now ATPL 2100TT 250ME at first update]

PM is ok if you like.... thanks for any stories/help/advice :ok:

Happy flight levels,

TSIO540

[Altimeters]

TSIO540,

I'm in exactly the same boat...although I got told 12 months instead of 18 and that was back in Feb this year. I updated in August and also got told to wait for the review date. :(

[Dragun]

So people applying now are being given the 'wait until the review' email and not being given any dates for testing? That's strange, I know of a few people who've done psych and skills in the last couple of weeks.

I agree Rhodes, if they're not currently recruiting, why are they still testing? There would be enough people to fill courses with letters of intent from now until mid next year. Unless we're going back to the dreaded 'hold file and competitiveness' situation like in the past. That would pretty much make all our letters void.

[Mstr Caution]

May I suggest the current EBA8 may have something to do with it. Of which voting closes at 4pm today.

The "commercially sensitive" current flying plan for the next 5 years is based on the acceptance of EBA8 in the current form.

If accepted, expect some progress, if not back to the negotiating table.

MC:8

[Transition Layer]

Mstr Caution,

You are on the mark re: EBA8, however, if it does get up I would imagine that recruitment will slow down once they can determine the effect that higher divisors will have on pilot numbers. I would imagine that a YES vote would slowdown recruitment slightly.

[Rhodes13]

So I guess with EBA 8 getting voted down we may have to cool our feet for a little bit longer then. Thanks for the heads up lads.

[Grnd Hog]

Recruitment into QF depends on numbers of pilots required as to projected flying hours - it has nothing to do with EBA8.
Due to softening of the market / fuel prices / etc etc everything is being reviewed. Employment currently is being rewieved on a month by month basis.
So yes - interviews / testing - still has to happen - as in aviation - things change rapidly. So courses will be reviewed monthly. Notifcation will be minimum. :=

[desk]

Will 964,
Your mate that got the 'no' letter after his references were checked didn't have a certain guy that is crying now his Adel Jet* base has shut and has to finish his command training in Christchurch down as a referee?? Once a snake always a snake...watch out Jet* boys in Melbourne...he is on his way!!!

[campdoag]

Grnd Hog thanks for the info...... do you have any idea when notification for the october course will occur??

[Keg]

A little lesson from history.

In April '94 QF had a meeting with a swag of the 80(ish) cadets who hadn't been employed for about two years. The purpose of that meeting was to tell us all that employment wasn't forecast to start in the immediate future or for some time after that. QF recommended that we all get on with our lives and if they called in 2-6 years time and we were still interested then we could still come on board.

They started the first course of 12 in late June and we were all employed by January the following year.

The moral? As Grnd Hog alludes to, things change in a hurry. Personally I started to worry about 18 months ago when QF said that they were going for 'record recruitment and promotion'. That's a sure sign that the wheels are about to fall off! :ok:

[Mstr Caution]

Recruitment into QF depends on numbers of pilots required as to projected flying hours - it has nothing to do with EBA8.


Numbers of pilots required did depend upon EBA8. As EBA8 gains more utilisation of pilot flying hours per annum.

[Dragun]

Notifcation will be minimum.

If that's the case, what happens to all those people with full time jobs and letters of intent that require 4 weeks resignation notice to their current employer?

[virgindriver]

If that's the case, what happens to all those people with full time jobs and letters of intent that require 4 weeks resignation notice to their current employer?

You say yes, I'll be there monday or take your chances and lose seniority. Easy:)

[Rhodes13]

That is probably what they are working on virgindriver although in all reasonableness you wouldn't get much change out of three weeks at minimum having to relocate, tell your boss to go and get stuffed and set it all up.

Somehow I think that either way its a lose lose situation, piss off current employer or miss the rat for who knows how long.

[Dragun]

It's not just a matter of pissing off current employer, QF have asked most LOI holders what notice period they need to give their current employer. To me, that means THEY won't call you for a start date if they start to book courses within that 4 weeks....it also throws a spanner in the works when your current employer is already a QF group company.

[yadot]

I am getting sick of this waiting game. Anyone heard anything yet?

I think i am going to start to look elsewhere! Typical qantas management. Don't tell em anything!

[Koizi]

I think we may all have to wait another two weeks....:(

[Bo777]

Who says???

[Rhodes13]

Latest correspondence from QF

We have been advised that within 2 weeks time we should receive the re-forecast through, which will provide us with an indication of the course numbers going forward. As soon as I have this information, I will be in touch. Thanks for your time and patience.

Kind regards

So still up in the air. They may turn around and say no more hiring (hopefully not) or may start giving course dates after the end of the month. Who knows?

[brown_hornet]

Not to hijack the thread but.....does anyone know whether it is possible for QLink pilots to keep their staff travel privileges when joining mainline? A thread a while back had posts from some people who had managed to keep theirs and others whose 6 months had been effectively reset. Given in recent months there have been quite a few QLink drivers join mainline hopefully someone can shed some light!
Thanks

[Koizi]

It's a shame the 6 months for staff travel doesn't start from when I got my letter of intent......otherwise I could almost be using it now!:hmm:

[pa28capt]

You lose your staff travel seniority, it is reset on the day you start with Mainline.

However, you are able to use it from the first day as they waive the six month waiting period.

[bdcer]

Guys/Gals,
Just hang in there!! It took me over a year to get through the selection process (maybe that was my fault though, not very competitive!?) & from a rough offer of employment I had to wait 18 months due delayed recruitment. Not a sob story, there are plenty worse off than me but you'll probably get in eventually. Hang in there!

[Long John Silver]

Since recruitment has slowed down from the boom earlier this year I would be very interested to know if anyone has heard whether people are getting called for courses based on the 'seniority' of their interview date, or the competitiveness of their results (ie, back to the hold file scenario where the most competitive float to the top).

[Horatio Leafblower]

Long John

My Dad told me the biggest ones always float to the top...

[Dragun]

I don't think 'seniority' of the interview or letter of intent matters given that out of the 8 people who started the September course on Monday, 6 were cadets straight from the cadetship that just finished. No industry placement at all.

[Rhodes13]

Begs the questions then Dragun who were the other 2 people? How long were they sitting on the letter of intent and when were they told of their start dates? As according to the Rat they are still finalising the training plan going forwrd in light of the recent events in aviation!

So once again we are in the situation of no information! Way to go QF!

[TruBlu351]

I know it's frustrating, but not sure if you're waiting for a phone call from them too?

You may want to "sanitize" your personal info so comments can't be publically tracked back to ya.......not that there was anything harsh mentioned, just thought I'd point that out before someone starts indvertantly unloading both barrels :ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

Yeah,

Last thing you want to do is speak your mind!

[Victor India]

Another great demonstration of QF's commitment to those at the bottom. :ugh:

In essence - the dozens (hundreds) of pilots ready to commit for hopefully a lifetime of service, and QF squabbles about just how long they can hold off on employing them to save a few dollars.

Make a decision! Someone? Give your prospective employees some confidence that their services are not just worthy in the next few months, but for the next several decades!!!!

VI

[Keg]

What do you guys expect? If you've read these forums in any depth then already know the machinations that go on in Qantas at all levels for those they've already employed. Why then would you expect anything different- or something better- when you don't even have a job yet? Don't get me wrong, the job is great and the crew you fly with are great but the treatment you're receiving from Qantas is no different to that which occurs in most other big companies and will be no different once you get in. I've got strong links in Defence, Police and education and the issues they face are identical.

Having discussed some recruiting issues with the pilot recruitment people in recent times you need to understand that this is one of the more complex issues that Flight Ops deals with. Unlike Defence where they can schedule a course 12 months in advance and select people for it, QF's needs change on a quarterly, monthly and sometimes weekly basis. Sims break down pushing training back, F/Os and Captains require additional sim time- sometimes on other fleets- which ultimately impacts back on the initial courses, etc, etc, etc. When you think that a one hour delay in one port can often take five or six DAYS to remove the ripple affect on the remainder of the network and then apply that to pilot training then you have the broad concept.

So whilst I understand the frustrations (having been told years ago I was being 'fast tracked' and then waiting another 14 months until I got in) at the end of the day you need to suck it up and get on with your life. You need to not get wound up at this treatment now because if stuff like this frustrates you then the next 30 years isn't going to be very enjoyable either. Keep in mind too that you're not yet an employee and QF (as in the 'system') doesn't owe you anything. You may like to think they do- and I wish they could tidy up some of these areas- but they certainly don't think they do or at least think it's important enough to add the extra resources to deal with it.

Good luck to all. I hope to fly with you. Just don't whinge about how long it took to hear back about getting in because most of us have lived it too.

[ALLICEDUP]

Well said Keg.......

[The Hill]

Couldn't agree more Keg, well said. I believe AirNZ is in the same boat re: start dates

[Transition Layer]

Talk about a pack of whingers! Whilst I was pretty lucky myself, spare a thought for those back in the dark old days of 2005/2006 when guys were put on hold in late 2005 and only employed mid last year!!! And there was no such thing as a letter of intent then - things were even more of a mystery.

And G'day Victor India, haven't heard from you in a while mate! Hope all is well.

[Dragun]

I've neither whinged nor made out like I feel QF owe me anything. If you read my posts I've only ever stated the facts of which I'm aware, or asked generic, open questions that either don't make sense to me or to which someone may know the answer. Remember, this is a forum for those in this situation to discuss and share thoughts and ideas about what may be happening. Frustration is bound to come out at some level.

I'm in total agreement - whinging will get you nowhere. I am however, already employed by a QF group company so I definitely don't feel that QF owes me anything and already know to some extent the way in which situations and circumstances can inhibit, change or cancel plans within upper and middle management.

Despite this, considering no aircraft orders have been cancelled to date, retirements and attrition still occuring, I guess most people are trying to understand how an updated course forecast can take almost 2 months to complete when everyone received an email almost 6 weeks ago stating it would be a maximum of 4 weeks. Again, not complaining - but I personally believe there is a lot more to this waiting for a new forecast than just having course numbers approved. Obviously the internal politics - new CEO, new CP, EBA etc are all playing a part and I know it's out of the recruitment departments hands at the moment.

Cheers all :ok:

[Keg]

Dragun, you are in the group, you've experienced the bun fight that is Group Flight Training and you understand the way the goal posts change on a weekly basis. I must admit to not even taking a note of which 'handles' were having a whinge and your posts in the last couple of pages were probably not the ones that I directed my comments at.

However, if you read the bunch of contributions previous to mine then you'll probably agree that I'm pretty close to the mark.

As an aside, is it just me or are some of the contributions immediately prior to my previous post typical of the Gen Y attitude? Perhaps that's just my Gen X (read old age) coming to the fore. :O :(

[Victor India]

keg,

you said As an aside, is it just me or are some of the contributions immediately prior to my previous post typical of the Gen Y attitude?

I'm Gen X like you (I think... what is the actual cutoff?). I'd counter your comment by suggesting that the amount of fence sitting and and indecision within QF's Recruiting Department at times is extremely Gen Y-esque. By my reckoning, it would be a nice old fashioned thing to be given a start date that means something, and not 3 days before you start.

Wouldn't you agree?

VI

PS - Hey TL... all's well mate. Sorry couldn't resist the thread...

[Rhodes13]

Keg I would be the first to say I agree with you that the goal posts are always moving but the attitude displayed by the recruitment team leaves a lot to be desired.

Your suggestion that this sort of thing goes on in defense, police and education suggests that all government/ ex government companies have a bit to learn about HR. Furthermore because its happened since day dot does that necessarily make it right and ethical? Remember treat others as you would expect to be treated. How would QF like it if the shoe was on the other foot?

I am more than happy to wait for a job but what is killing me is the lack of information/ communication. It would be much nicer if they just turned around and said listen no jobs till at least XX date, instead of constantly changing their minds about when the training plan is issued and in the mean time adding to the hold pool. I would suggest to you if that was the case then people could better plan their lives and see whether QF is the best option for them. Much like Victor India said it would be nice to have a little bit more notice than can you start next week considering Im willing to relocate from the other side of the world? Whatever happened to professional courtesy to other companies and your future employees?

I chat to guys outside of aviation and they all shake their heads at the way we pilots are happy to be treated. Do you think if this was a job for an accountancy firm or another professional job we would be happy to be treated this way? They'd tell the employer to go and get stuffed!:ok:

[Horatio Leafblower]

It would be much nicer if they just turned around and said listen no jobs...

Careful what you wish for old son...

...I've had that letter from QF. TWICE. :*

[Keg]

Rhodes, I've long been an advocate that poor past performance is no excuse for continuing that treatment or that just because others have lived through a crap system that others should be inflicted with the same. The point of my earlier post however is not saying 'suck it up' because we all had to.

My point is 'suck it up' because QF don't see the imperative to change and if they're not going to treat their current employees with respect (although many of us hope that may change in the short to medium term) and the QF wannabes see that articulated on PPRUNE on a daily basis then what possible hope do you have of getting better when you're not even in the pipeline.

Your third paragraph is the clincher though. The reality is that they probably can't provide you with firm information because they just don't know. As I've said before, plans at QF change regularly and can sometimes be made from well above Flight Operations. The decision by the CEO to have a hiring freeze at the end of the last FY meant a shortage of pilots across all ranks because we didn't have the new S/Os in at the ground level to release people for promotional training. That was a last minute change. The financial crisis has added a new dimension to the program with demand softening.

You're quite right about the way that aviation professionals are treated by employers and the way that professionals are treated in other industries. In many respects it's because of some very unique demands on this industry. I guess at the end of the day until you're in a position to change it the options are simple. Suck it up or if 'positive' treatment is what you're after you could always become an accountant. Somehow I think you, like me, will still choose aviation.

Final point (because I'm simply repeating previous points). Get used to this. Your next 30-40 years in aviation will have similar experiences....at least until you're the Chief Pilot and can change it for the newbies following.

[atminimums]

Maybe a bit off topic, but...

Can anyone suggest a place to stay at (close proximity) whilst doing the QANTAS testing/interviewing?

I have found/been referred to the Hotel Forumle 1, and it looks like it will be my choice. I am wondering if anyone knows about how far it is from Formule 1 to the QANTAS testing base? Walkable?

Thanks

Mins :cool:

[HPSOV]

Holiday Inn=Literally the other side of the road.
Ibis=200m walk
Formula 1=500m walk

[TruBlu351]

Tell IBIS you want a Q or other airline rate and it's about $125/night.....3 minute walk. Holiday Inn don't do very good deals.

Formula 1 do a combined dinner stayover package with a can of coke and a packet of corn chips fom the vending maching :}

[No1Dear]

atminimums (http://www.pprune.org/members/211633-atminimums)
It is difficult to get a good nights rest at F1 some nights, not always.
It is cheapest however which can often be the deciding factor
Good Luck

[atminimums]

Thanks guys, much appreciate the advice. :ok:

[phatmike128]

I stayed at Ibis last weekend. 2 minute walk and 119 a night if you show them the acceptance letter for stage 2/3. :)

[dreamjob]

2 minute walk from Ibis? Geez I must have gone the long way around! :}

Took me 5 minutes to RUN!!

[atminimums]

Just booked for the IBIS. Good deal for QANTAS apps.

... Will confirm the walk/run time when I return. :ok:

mins

[TruBlu351]

You can get the stop watch out the night before and do a dummy run!

Don't get there too early as the security guy won't let you up until the clock hits 8:30....or what ever time you have on your letter.

Good luck and may the force be with you :ok:

[Mr. Hat]

atminimums get a good meal, good nights sleep and a good breakfast before hand.

good luck.