Red Arrows - June Absence

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Hi all Happy Easter, I don't know if this has being discussed before, But I went on the Arrows site the other day, And noticed that they are deploying out to Canada for over 20 + days?:sad:

The deployment will chop the UK Airshow programme into pieces, For shows like Blackpool etc.:hmm:

There are only a handful of UK appearances in June.

Is this really neccessary to deploy overseas for so long??:=

And the absence has no benefit to this country, possibly Only the canadians?

Looking at their 2008 display dates, It has no comparrison, With older years when the Arrows did at least 3 full displays & several flypasts a day.

Is the curtain slowly coming down on the Arrows??

Giving the usual phrase - 'once youv'e seen them once':*

Has the 'novelty' finally gone??:confused:

I hope the Arrows have a permanent life in the RAF, But IMHO I would not be shocked if our 'so called Muppets of parliament' decide one day to call full time.

Regards.:ok:

[VARIABLE_KNIFE]

Never mind that, one has it from very good authority that they are going to Ibiza or Tenerife; they could not remember which, to close some club! All in the name of recruiting apparently...........................:ugh:

[BYALPHAINDIA]

........And we're paying for that too:ugh::*:O

[VARIABLE_KNIFE]

At least the mighty Chinook Display is ON this year! ;)

[vmv2]

Red Arrows mentioned at 1937 - first derogatory comment at 1942. Some standards are being maintained!

[clunckdriver]

They will be in Quebec City to take part in the 400th aniversary party for the city, it should be quite a show, the Thunderbirds,Blue angels, the French Air Force Team,Red Arrows and Snowbirds all in one day! At our company we have cancelled all training and charters and are flying all our aircraft, staff pilots and customers we can fit in and will take the whole mob to the show, hope the weather holds for it! Sorry that all of you cant come over for the show, if any are coming PM me, Regards Clunckdriver.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Hope you have a good time... at our expense:oh:

Regards.:ok:

[clunckdriver]

Thats OK BYALPHAINDIA, just look upon it as pay back for the many RCAF who spent a fair bit of time in the UK a few years back, quite a few didnt come home.

[ShyTorque]

just look upon it as pay back for the many RCAF who spent a fair bit of time in the UK a few years back, quite a few didnt come home.


Well said; but we'd have done the same for your end, had it been needed.

[Clockwork Mouse]

BYALPHAINDIA

What a cheap and unnecessarily rude post. My apologies to Clunk for this reaction to your friendly input.

I suppose we can stand by now for the floodgates to open from all the usual suspects.

[bakerpictures]

Here we go again: The Spring Reds-bashing.

By the sound of it, those who annually carp on here about what a Reds tour costs the taxpayer seem to have privileged access to the spreadsheets that detail finances of their every departure from UK airspace! I wonder if they know that industry, usually someone like BAE, pays for a foreign tour?

OK, during some seasons they may have to miss an Eastbourne, a Southend or a Blackpool which are huge events in their calendar and that's a tough call when the PC (Participation Committee) dishes out RAF shows every Spring, but they do what they're told. The Reds like to bless the crowds with their hard-learned shows and only leave our shores for an overseas display when there's political mileage to be gained, or if it suits industry (who incidentally help them in many other unreported ways during the year). They can't please everyone - and definitely not the infidels on PPRuNe who never got to shortlist, let alone a back-seat black-out.

I'm delighted the Québécois will be given a treat from our Reds and all other teams this year. Bon Anniversaire! :D

[BYALPHAINDIA]

QUOTE
BYALPHAINDIA

What a cheap and unnecessarily rude post. My apologies to Clunk for this reaction to your friendly input.

I suppose we can stand by now for the floodgates to open from all the usual suspects.

REPLY BYALPHAINDIA

Don't be a 'whim' Clockwork Mouse, I didn't mean the comment to be an accessory to make war, I am aware what the 'Cans' did for us back in WW2, But that was then & we are now.

I just think the Arrows 1st and foremost priority is to display to the people of the UK, Isn't that what we make our contributions towards??:D

I am aware of the Arrows visiting canada on occassion, But many airshows look forward to their Annual Arrows treat, And due to this tour Blackpool and many others will not be entertained this year.:sad:

As one poster said earlier, I don't miss the RAF I miss the 'old' RAF.:hmm:

Has the Arrows PR team gone into Robot mode 2??:rolleyes:

[BYALPHAINDIA]

QUOTE
Would people stop there dripping about having a good time on other peoples expenses. If you want a piece of the action then why don't you join them. Maybe your not good enough though.

REPLY BYALPHAINDIA

You have to remember the 'Arrows' aren't everyone's 'cup of tea' I know of a couple of Ex FJ crew, Who had no interest in them whatsoever.:zzz:

One friend once said, 'There no different just 9 guys in red suits':bored:

And me, I'm happy on the 757 thanks.

[Runaway Gun]

I'm just proud that our cousins across the ditch will see what the brilliance the Reds are capable of with their little Hawks. Whilst the other teams have fine F-16 and F-18 jets, our team will display to world class standards in front of a truly appreciative audience. Well worth the cost of a few missed displays here in England, and a bit of a reward to the hard working team to boot.

[clunckdriver]

To all who pay taxes to suport your team, thank you! Im not sure what percentage of my taxes, both personel and company pay for the Snowbirds but I quite frankley dont care, its my Air Force. I can only hope that the PR folks in the RAF have the smarts to invite every RCAF vet{in particular 425 Sqdn vets} to be their guests of honour in Quebec City to meet the team, ,it would show the world how our nations stood together and be one in the face to those who would re -write history.Having read stories of RAF personel being advised not to wear their uniforms in certain UK towns I can assure the team that will not apply here! {and for those of you who might fault my spelling, I live and function in French Canada}

[Avitor]

There are a good many of us here who really do appreciate the contribution, bravery and dedication of Canadian troops in WW2. I will always remember with some trepidation that which was the debacle of Dieppe.

God rest their young souls. Enjoy the Red Arrows and remember the boys. :ok:

[clunckdriver]

Avitor, thank you, I live in a very small French speaking village in Eastern Ontario, our pride is that one of our residents {F/L Christie} won trhe first RCAF DSO in WW2, you can Google him and see why we are so proud of him, the village produced many other of his ilk, but the price was almost too much, we had many lases did not mary, there were no boys left, our local schools went to last years Vimy re -dedication, so you and other readers I hope will understand when my retort to a Britt taking a shot at us for having the Red Arrows over here is maybe a bit blunt.

[ehwatezedoing]

http://www.spectacleaerien.qc.ca/index.asp?page=participants&lang=EN
-Snowbirds
-Blue Angels
-Thunderbirds
-Red Arrows
-Patrouille de France

oh my gawd!, they will run out of parking spaces ! :ok:

Check their schedule, you will see that the Red Arrows will perform at only one air show in Canada. Way much more will be done in the States (two)
So BYALPHAINDIA, better forward your complain to them ;)

[gusspa44]

Cant see what the problem is here .They have done many overseas displays over the years. The red arrows are fine ambassadors for the UK and Canada is one of our closest allies and has been for a long time . Why cant they fly the flag for the UK .The reds will have many other displays in the uk this year, just go to one of them if your so bothered !!:ok::ok:

[BYALPHAINDIA]

QUOTE
Cant see what the problem is here .They have done many overseas displays over the years. The red arrows are fine ambassadors for the UK and Canada is one of our closest allies and has been for a long time . Why cant they fly the flag for the UK .The reds will have many other displays in the uk this year, just go to one of them if your so bothered !!:ok::ok:

I don't think 'many' comes into it, looking at their dispaly timetable, It is 'diabolical' - And not a patch on their traditional 45+ displays.:sad:

I wonder what the old school - Richard Thomas, Bill Lees, etc would have to say about it?:rolleyes:

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Hey, hangabout, Iv'e got as much right to be on here as you have.

Don't take it personal.:=

My Case Is Closed.:*

[Wholigan]

What case? You do not have a case. However you should get one in order to make it easier for you to carry your bitterness and the chips on your shoulders around with you.

Quote: "The additional costs of sending The Red Arrows on overseas tours such as the United Arab Emirates and Malaysia in the autumn of 1997 and 1999 and Canada in 2002 were entirely borne by British companies. The Ministry of Defence takes the view that British tax-payers should not bear the cost of these overseas tours. However it is happy for The Red Arrows to demonstrate the 'Best of British' overseas when the companies that stand to benefit are willing to pay the bills."

I am sure that this principle still applies, so go bury your head up the place you have been speaking out of and stop your whining. You are becoming boring.

[BEagle]

"Well, that took care of the (Reds) flyby" (with apologies to 'Goose').

If only 1% of the UK were as proud of their Armed Forces as the average person in Ontario.

As I posted elsewhere, there are 50 bridges between Trento and Toronto. When the repatriation of CF personnel killed in action took plave recently, every single bridge was packed with firemen, police officers, ambulance personnel and the average man-in-the-street all showing respect and support.

[BOAC]

Speaking as a member of 'the old school', whilst I cannot speak for them I'm pretty sure that RT and PETE Lees would be fully in support. Know them well, do you?

Personally I am delighted and proud that we will be so well represented at such a significant event amongst such significant company.

[Clockwork Mouse]

BOAC
Well said.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Wow! Four posts that prove that we mods can most times sit back and watch 'self-moderation' in action. :D :D :D

[Art Field]

Further thanks should go to the Canadians who, for a time, even after the war, trained around 50% of all RAF Pilots and Navigators, myself included. An experience I enjoyed greatly as I am sure did my fellow trainees. Let them enjoy the Sparrows and let the Sparrows wave the flag on our behalf and benefit from the generous Canadian hospitality.

[Gainesy]

Clunckdriver

At our company we have cancelled all training and charters and are flying all our aircraft, staff pilots and customers we can fit in and will take the whole mob to the show, :D

You wouldn't like to pop over here and do a lecture tour on Leadership v. Management would you?:ok:

[merlinxx]

Clunkdriver

Good on ya! Enjoy 'The Reds'. I've spent many happy hours with RCAF/CAF crews in my previous incarnations, even falling off tables at Mess nights in Trenton & IAT (Sqdn bash at the end - 'Screech in' CANUKS to the UK).

Yup I've been 'Screeched' many times, and got all (I think) the memories still!


AlphaIndia

Grow up sport! We have a relationship with the Canadians you probably don't have with your neighbours. I've spent many happy/challenging hours working on behalf of CANFORCE, some what more than working for certain
elements of our own Air Force, mainly the fast jet fraternity, the 'Truckees'
were the best. Stop whingeing and go join the freedom fighters in RSA!

PS: Or join Ken Livingstone!

[ZH875]

Can't see a problem, if the Reds are not at Scampton, then my washing will not get covered in diesel.

Anyway, sending them stateside should show them there foreigners who really is best.:ok:

[skippyscage]

Anyway, sending them stateside should show them there foreigners who really is best.

exactly - I am fully confident that the Reds will make the US Teams look very mild.

Same with the other "Reds" - the Red Devils often go to NAS Oceana for the airshow and jump with the special forces team - our boys draw gasps from the crowd and it really stamps UK professionalism on the map.

The Red Arrows will gain many many new fans by coming to N.America and this results in the UK Forces in general being looked upon as the consummate professionals that they all are :D

[Squirrel 41]

To Clunk and our other Canadian friends;

Firstly, it is entirely appropriate that we should be saying thank-you for the all-too frequently overlooked contribution of the RCAF and the Canadian forces in the defence of the UK in WW2 and the low-key but vital performance of the Canadians in the Cold War and Afghanistan.

Thank-you.

Second, my apologies for the whingers on here who appear to wither be (a) ungrateful or (b) ignorant of the sacrifices that Canada has made and continues to make for the UK and the western alliance. Blackpool airshow more important? Reds on tour banter? Shame on you! :=

And looks like a great day - sorry I'm going to miss it!

S41

(Edited for spollink)

[exscribbler]

Well said, Squirrel!

I for one wouldn't be very happy if the Reds were spending time over Paris or Berlin...:E

[clunckdriver]

Good Grief! When I posted about the Quebec City Airshow not in my wildest dreams did I expect the tread to take the direction it has,so may I say that the direction it has taken confirms my view that Canada, Britain, Austrailia, NZ and many of the Comonwealth countries should do everything they can to preserve our "Special Realationship!" In an increasingly divided word it has been a stabilizing factor in many tough times {end of speach!} Now to answer a few of you and your kind words, Gainesy, If I do have any leadership skills they came from the WW2 vets I served under in the RCAF, most started as NCO Aircrew and by luck, abillity,and large doses of courage rose to senior rank {no politics involved}One I served under rose from Sergant pilot to Groupy in three years! As an eighteen year old sprog on squadron they were and still are an inspiration to those of us who came behind them. Art Field, I remember the Brit APOs with great affection, their practical jokes were always worth waiting for as their course graduation dates got closer, who will ever forget the "visiting RAF Pardre" who fooled the CO and most of us and gave a sermon which was very un PC, or the transformation of the COs staff car from shiny black to shocking pink one night.Of late some have returned to attend course getogethers , a sure sign of getting old, quite a few returned to Canada to stay, thier contribution to our nation and aviation in particular has been significant, Regards Clunck.

[A2QFI]

The amount that it costs to run the Red Arrows for 1 year would easily be covered by the sums of money fiddled/stolen by MPs in padded expense claims and other almost criminal theft from the Exchequer, re mortgages for homes they don't live in and vast expenses for re-fitting them!

[GPMG]

Hang on, I thought that one of the main aspects of the Red Arrows was to fly the British Flag and to show that Britain can still do some things better than most other countries. An off shoot is that it may well encourage investment in HMS United Kingdom.

If thats the case then the question should be "What the hell are the Reds doing in this country for the rest of the year?" Get yourselves out to every sun soaked rich country (and the dull dreary rich countries) and start advertising for us.

I'd far rather see my Tax shekels go across the sky trailing red, white and blue smoke, than some slack jawed scum bag using his giro to advertise what Britain is really like to the locals in Malia or Kavos.

[noregrets]

Like it or not, RAFAT increases the Service's profile enormously. Mention RAF to any member of Joe Public and the chances are they'll think 'Red Arrows'. And while some serving and ex-serving members may sneer at them, the vast majority of my civvy friends and family think the Red Arrows are absolutely fantastic. Yes, they do an enormous amount of good overseas, advertising British industry and generally flying the flag (much like HM used to before 'they' took Britannia off her - :mad:), but RAFAT is first and foremost about raising the RAF's profile and keeping those recruiting figures up.

If we want to talk about value for money, how's about we start with BBMF?

(tin hat-foxhole-go!)

[GPMG]

I think that the BBMF would be a possibility to be honest.

If a Lanc went up for sale the queue from super rich investors and warbird pilots would be pretty long. I bet Branson would be bidding for the new Virgin BBMF Display team.

[noregrets]

At the risk of putting my head above the parapet again (not to mention severe thread drift):

RN Historic Flt - charity, funded entirely by donations, sponsorship etc. No public purse, flown and maintained by volunteer enthusiasts.

AAC Historic Flt - as above.

BBMF - publicly funded, flown and maintained by full-time Service (plus a few FTRS).

Dare I ask why?

:uhoh:

[MightyGem]

If anyone's going to miss their Reds "fix", they could always look here. :D (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=3031048)

[SaddamsLoveChild]

Great advertising for BAE, and for the RAF but to be honest, watching the reds is a bit like having sex with the sister in law, something you do once and the novelty wears off. Never tire of the Chinny though, 10 tons of vibrating throbbing glory - women love it.

I am all for them having a good time away, they worked hard enough on the front line to enjoy a bit of work n moose milk.

[Seaking93]

RN Historic Flt - charity, funded entirely by donations, sponsorship etc. No public purse, flown and maintained by volunteer enthusiasts.

Not true, large part of funding from the public purse, flown by volunteers, managed and maintained by paid staff.