Air Atlanta Icelandic 747-400 Contracts

[Iver]

I have read some past posts about Air Atlanta Icelandic - nothing good. Bottom feeder I have read. Very low pay for type of flying and low morale. Why do pilots get on with them with other good operators out there? What is the attraction?

I know that AAI is operating a 400 for CargoLux. Does anyone have terms for flying with AAI on the 400 or other fleets like the 200 and 300 fleets? Same pay and QOL on those fleets?

Not trying to flame and not necessarily interested myself but just curious.

Thanks

[wuntok]

Air Atlanta operates mostly 747-200s. My last info was that they had two -400s but were about to lose one due lack of contract renewal, and possibly the other. I would be surprised to hear that they were actually employing new staff in that climate but, AAI can be full of surprises!

Guys work there for all sorts of reasons. The money is 'ok' as long as you dont have to pay tax anywhere. Pay is in US$ to a Guernsey bank account. Most of the 'expats' are non-residents (for tax purposes) of their home places - UK, USA, France whatever.

Conditions are ****e. No, zero, nil allowances apart from a US$50 per diem paid into your bank account. Pay is per day worked. Living in hotels, the Co pays bed and breakfast. Everything else you have to pay for. Laundry in a hotel for example is expensive. Guys wash their own kit in their bathtub. Yes this sucks. Insurances, sick pay, medical renewal costs, holidays, even days off are all things you have to fight for. Mostly you can expect not to win.

The real big downside though is the total absence of any security of tenure. The Contract is 2 weeks notice, either way. AAI is run from Iceland by people whom you mostly never see. Rumours are all there is to go on. Rumours, of course, are always bad. Promotion is a joke. They are crying out for experienced F/Os but have ample Captains. New Captains are invariably Icelandics.

Yet, hey, some people seem to like it there - why I do not know.

[Iver]

I think 400s being contracted by Cargolux. I read that AAI at one time hired some low-time pilots for FO positions. Not sure if same now. Is that true? If true, did AAI pay for type with bond, etc.? How did position on 747-400 or 747-200/300 be determined? Why would person get 400 vs. 200/300?

Sorry about questions but I am curious if program still around or where do they get their FOs if reputation so bad? Wouldn't bad pay and reputation lead to attrition problem? Would then expect need more FOs.

[wuntok]

AAI had one of their (two) -400Fs contracted to Cargolux and the second doing more ad hoc stuff. I know that they are still operating at least one now but who for whom I do not know.

They do have some low time F/Os. I have never heard of any 'Bond' being required. On a two-weeks-notice Contract, a Bond would be unlikely.

The evil reputation AAI has probably comes from a succession of high time F/Os hired over the years, who were promised all sorts of opportunities in huge expansion plans that never happened, and who have moved-on feeling 'aggrieved'. The job itself, when there is work to do, is not unlike charter flying elsewhere. The destinations are varied. You are left on your own to make the operation work. The aircraft are pretty well service and the guys, with the inevitable very few exceptions, are great. The job suits some people (e.g. retired BA Captains who commute home) very well. The low time F/Os are 'getting-their-hours-up'. The high time F/Os, lured there by blarney (Irish reference intentional) of 'promotion-on-merit' mostly get out again as quick as they can.

[747flyby]

Why dont you have a look at www.airatlanta.com (http://www.airatlanta.com)

See for yourself.

I have no idea what the deal is. Just ask them directly.
Some people giving you a advise have no idea what they are talking about.

Some people like it. Some dont. Its best to be your own judge.
The chief pilots at AAI are pretty good chaps. Everyone knows the contract when they sign it wether they like it or not. They are offering fix based contracts and some people are pissed off that they dont get the base they ask for. You can also be on a worldwide contract.

Like I said check it out yourself.

There should be a link to contact them on the website.

Good Luck

[doubleu-anker]

"The chief pilots at AAI are pretty good chaps."

If you are talking about a period which included all of 2004, then I say to you b******t. A bigger pack of lying morons I have yet to see.

[Nonni777]

Just in case you missed it, it´s 2008 now.

And all this whining about this company is just stupid, people get a contract to sign and probably read it, so it is their own fault if they accept it and are unhappy afterwards.

[Phil Squares]

Just in case you missed it, it´s 2008 now.

And all this whining about this company is just stupid, people get a contract to sign and probably read it, so it is their own fault if they accept it and are unhappy afterwards.

The problem with AAI, is the contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Neither of the two agencies who hire for AAI will stand behind the pilot if there is a problem since the agencies are too worried about getting their commission.

If you think having a contract will protect you, then you really need to get out in the real world!

[3REDS]

When are the 777's arriving:E

[Iver]

I think I just read Air Atlanta placed one 747-400 on Saudia contract recently and other with Cargolux. Expensive airplane not to have flying. If money is not attractive and job security low, where do they get their new pilots? Do new FOs have to pay type rating? How do they decide if you fly 747-400 or 747-200/300? Just need at time or specific experience required? Anyone know details?

[747flyby]

Some people move on with their life. Like we are not in the year 2004.

If you dont like it in AAI why not go somewhere else.

There are lots of jobs out there.

Lots of people are flying on validations (excemtions) while there are lots of european young people looking for opportunities. There are also lots of people working for AAI who do not have the right to work and live in europe and still do. It would be interesting to see what those people would say if we would get the same nice treatment at their home.

Also most of them dont pay any taxes anywhere.

If you dont like it just go home.

[wuntok]

As somebody else has said Iver, make your own judgement. If you are interested in/have queries about AAI, ring them up. Someone will put you in touch with their recruiting/employing person - a most 'engaging' Irishman.

Is it a good Company to work for? Will working there help your career? You won't get answers (for you) to those questions here.

Good luck.

[Atlanta-Driver]

Has not been involved with AAI or Airborne since December.

AAI has been purchased by management and the house is being cleaned up with a firehose, starting from top ending at the bottom. Training department is being redone and worked on by some very competent individuals.

Looks like there is a serious attempt to make the company work.

[doubleu-anker]

I say jolly good show to all of the above.

The only thing that is troubling me, is why it took so long for them to catch on to the obvious cancer that had set in?!

[Podunk]

To answer your question re: new F/Os on the -400..... at least 'some' of the FNG's (:mad:' New Guys) are not new to the company. AAI has rewarded a few of their former Ops personnel (those with licenses.... and about 8-10 years tenure with right seats on th -400, rather than put them into purgatory with the rest on the Classic.

Regarding the question, "Why it took so long....". Stroll into any High Street bookstore and plonk down a few quid for "Xenophobe's Guide to Icelanders". Or, it's available from Amazon at $2.50 - $4.16. ISBN # 978-1902825328. :8

It's a hilarious, yet unnervingly accurate, explanation of all things Icelandic, including AAI management. I strongly suggest anyone interested in applying to AAI "OWN" a copy and refer to it often! :}

Reference the "contract"? Beware, beware, beware. Recent revisions were made to all Fixed Base contracts (JEDDAH excepted) to cut perdiems across the board. After reading "Xenophobe's Guide", you will see the reason. Originally, FBC's were issued paying perdiem for EVERY day on a base (away from domecile). It took them over 2 years to figure out they were paying out the nose and have corrected their mistake, coming back in line with other companies.

Unfortunately, instead of admitting they cocked it up in the first place, they are effectively imposing an approx $900/month pay cut on the ex-pat contractors. :ugh: MOST are not signing renewals or accepting the new contract. :*

[Podunk]

Just picked this up at the crew room. Would be funny, but I suspect there is a good bit of truth in the rumour.

During binding arbitration meetings between Air Atlanta Mgt (Helgi) and the venerable Federation of Flying Fish (FFF), FFF 744 crews have demanded they get extra pay for having to do the F/E's duties on the -400.....In addition to their 3wk on/3wk off roster.

How the heck are they gonna put THIS one past the Icie tax man?

Does this mean I can claim for extra pay when I have to fly with a "Rockhead" Captain... I have to do his work too! :confused:

[dynasty744]

Just picked this up at the crew room.

Oh well it must be true then.......Podunk if you have such a problem with AAI why are you still with them??

FYI the 400 crews, including the contractors, already get more than the Classic guys, they have done for the past 4 years. Ok so you don't get per diem whilst at home but don't forget the extra $1500 or so that they are throwing at you for being in Jeddah.

Like I said if you don't like it go somewhere else.....please

[Atlanta-Driver]

I really like the constructive attitudes of some of my co-workers. Yes if one does not like it, they can leave. But would it not be smarter to try to fix things?

Heard it in the crew room is another one that really makes me squirm.

My solution to is very simple. If there is a problem, write a report and send it up to Iceland. Bypass the muppets that where responsible for the screwup and go to the top.

While on work, I do my job, when duty ends I dissapear and come back to do my duty until I go home.

[dynasty744]

Couldn't agree more...yes things do need to be fixed..maybe one day they will be. But Podunk insulting the Icelandic's isn't going to help.

[Iver]

If there are only 2 747-400s, there can't be many total crews on that type but there are many more for 747-200 and 300 aircraft. I appreciate all the commentary about the quality of management at AAI, but I am trying to understand how slots were allocated to 747-400 first officers. Were these hired onto the aircraft or were they moved from the 747-200/300 fleets? If you are hired into the 747-200 fleet, should you expect to stay on that fleet or could there be movement to the 747-400 fleet (if you don't quit earlier)?

Also, where are the pilot domiciles in Europe for these fleets (other than Iceland) or are you home-based and flown to the aircraft? Do pilots get moved to Jeddah or Luxembourg for the 400 contracts?

[Atlanta-Driver]

Well let me just first say that I am a 747 pilot and the allocation of 744 slot are out of my grasp and any opinnion I present is either hearsay or a probable misrepresentation or I am twisting the truth.

Some of the 744 FO's where hired from people that worked in the operations department with minimum hours. Some where experience 744 people from other companies. Some where Icelandic Union members.

Should you join the 747 fleet, yes there could be a chance to move to the 744 later on. Supply and demand you see. If there are more airplanes coming and a need for more pilots on 744 and no rated people on the market.

The base assignement for the 744 contract is probably similar to 747. JED or LUX or what base the company has at given type for that fleet and where people are needed.

[blue_side_up]

AAI not for everyone, for sure, for sure!
However, as others have mentioned... It can be a good place to build hours on a heavy jet, for F/O's, and a good retirement job for experienced cpt's.
The fixed base contracts are not like the normal 'worldwide' crap. For the most part (compared to worldwide) they are semi-stable rosters (ok, but NOT like a scheduled airline). The training dept (sim and line trg), on the Classic, includes some of the absolute best industry veterans out there! Many of the guys in sim trg in FRA are outstanding, and committed to making things work the best they can.
Some dodgy crews and mtce for sure, but for the most part an excellent group of guys (and a few gals).
PS-It can be a pay cut to go to an established airline when you join entry-level (as an F/O at least).
Not for everyone

[fly744]

I would like to fly part time; such as 10 days per month for Air Atlanta on the 744.Anyone can give me the name and tel number of the person in charge?
Thanks guys

[Podunk]

Gee, Massa, I truly and abjectly apologize if I offended your sense of "don't rock my boat".

I seem to get better, read, more accurate info from the crew room than from the FM bar in Tutchkunt . BTW that small nugget came from an Icelander.... yes, he was in the "crew-room" as well.

I have little against the Icies, personally. Just pointed out they can sometimes be a bit of a challenge professionally. They pay my mortgage with proceeds from THEIR train-set.

PS: MOST of the guys pay taxes "somewhere".

Fly744... AAI has just started researching 'job-sharing'... if you can get on the 744 off the street, AND find another 744 guy in the same position who only wants to fly 20 days a month.... you might be able to work something out. check your PM for email address

better yet..... bypass the muppets and email helgi.hilmarsson @airatlanta.com directly

[fly744]

Thanks Podunk,
Is Cpt Alan Nicholson still with AAI and if so do u have his e-mail?

[doubleu-anker]

Podunk

Sending an email to the individual you have stated, will not "bypass the Muppet's". He is in charge of the whole mess!

I thought they were having a complete clean out. While he is there, things will never change.

[Podunk]

fly744....
try [email protected] for Alan

[GlueBall]

. . . but ex AAI 744 drivers who found work at Jade Cargo are saying that AAI has sold two of its three -400s and is down to operating just one -400. . .? :uhoh:

[Iver]

So, Jade Cargo has hired a bunch of the AAI 744 pilots? Does Jade Cargo have a base in Europe as well or just in China?

[GlueBall]

http://www.jadecargo.com/JoinUs/PilotsRecruitment/tabid/81/Default.aspx

[CAT II]

The question was asked earlier of where the 744 drivers come from and why to AAI?

I know of several 744 Captains forced to retire at 60 from my previous airline joining AAI so they could keep flying. That was before November 2007 and the age 65 rule change.