VFR Flight to YPPH

[brendan26]

Afternoon guys and Gals, Those familar with flying in this side of the country, i was wanting to fly to YPPH if possible VFR, I have heard a few people doing this sort of trip not so long ago and i was wanting to know how to go about it. Apart from getting proir airways clearences and etc, how does the Perth tower fit you in a landing sequence (flying a piper arrow)

anyone that has done a similar trip help you be greaty appriceated.

cheers

[tipsy2]

School holidays come around quickly, don't they. Oh I forgot its Easter break.:8

tipsy

[Ideal Line]

School holidays come around quickly, don't they. Oh I forgot its Easter break.:8

Typical pprune answer. Loser.

[bentleg]

Those familar with flying in this side of the country


Where is "this side"?

If you are talking about flying across from the eastern states it is a LONG way. Do your sums on the cost. About 20 hours, across 4 days, with 2 pilots, from Sydney in a 172.


I was wanting to fly to YPPH if possible VFR.


Why do you want to fly into YPPH? Jandakot would be much more Lightie pilot friendly I expect, and probably cheaper. I'll let the locals advise you on that.

[brendan26]

Sorry should have included a bit more information, Its more a local flight im from the southwest here, ive been into Jandakot many times but im suppose to be flying my parents up so they can catch there flight out. It will be a VFR flight because im not instrument rated at all. i know that Perth is never very accommodating for these types of flights they have enough work with the airlines its usually hard enough just to get clearence to fly through a small patch of the controlled zone let-alone land at the airfield.

[Lasiorhinus]

i know that Perth is never very accommodating for these types of flights they have enough work with the airlines its usually hard enough just to get clearence to fly through a small patch of the controlled zone let-alone land at the airfield.

File a flight plan: it works wonders.

Call the Terminal Area Manager (phone number is in ERSA), and negotiate a good time. Then, BE ON TIME.

[bentleg]

If you are VFR then think about it a bit more. What happens if the weather is feral on the day?

If your parents are catching a flight perhaps you should try and do it the day before in case there is a weather problem on the day. They can still jump in a car and make their flight. If it is being done on a different day it doesn't seem essential for the arrival to be at the same 'port.

International airports can be unfriendly to GA lighties and even if they let you come in, some have high landing fees. But I don't know about Perth. Have you read ERSA for Perth? There are quite a few pre-reqs and special procedures for inbound GA's, which in my opinion require a fair bit of experience to deal with (as well as flying the 'plane). It might be a good idea to fly in there with an instructor first to get the local feel. Have you talked to your instructor about it?

A booking would be a good idea and a flight plan in the system essential.

[Islander Jock]

Lasiorhinus is spot on! Definately file a flight plan and call the Perth ATC the day before to get an idea of what times will be the busiest.

Last time I flew in there we only filed the flight plan prior to departure out of Jandakot and ended up holding at Mullaloo point for about 15 minutes.

If you haven't done it before, make sure you have a good chart of the terminal area (the one out of DAPS is probably best). Be ready to receive and read back lengthy taxi instructions. If they offer taxi guidance... take it. Saves you looking like a mug if you take a wrong taxiway and end up your nose to nose wheel with a 737 or something bigger.

All in all, it's good fun and experience but I would also heed bentleg's advice and stongly advise having someone on board who has done it before.

[BrazDriver]

During slot operations they will not let lighties in - Read the NOTAM.

Expect some extensive holding at times depending on runway configuration.
Weekends are reasonably quiet. Weekdays are pretty busy mornings/noon/evenings are very busy.

Also can be a walk from GA apron to landside then to the domestic terminals. Also a hassle getting airside again, usually you need to get the safety officer to let you in.
A fluorescent vest must also be worn airside, they are very pedantic about it!

Read up on all your procedures, it can be very demanding - Even alot of instructors have never been into Perth.

Taxi from JT-PH domestic is $48 even less for international, you will save that on landing fee's. There is also a parking fee if you stay longer than a few hours. Look at their website www.perthairport.net.au for all landing fee's . Remember there is also a hefty Airservices fee ($25 from memory on top of the steep landing fee's)

The odd lightie does fly in from time to time, it is a good challenge. Pm if you need more info

[Islander Jock]

BrazDriver, Is the fluro vest an airport or company rule? Last time I was on the GA apron no one said anything to me... but that was a while back.

Good point to about getting airside from the other side of the gate. I remember calling the number for the security guy to come and let me in. I said that one of us would have to come out again. His response was, "well I'm on break now so you will have to wait about 20 mins" :eek: WTF? Luckily one of the operators was loading pax and let us use their door but they are certainly under no obligation to do so.

[R4+Z]

The only times I have had anyting to do with Ypph was when I was training/check riding and they were always completely accomodating. However remember one salient point here, notwithstanding the cost you are a paying customer and have the right to be accomodated. Yes allow for possible holds due to traffic and yes contact the relavant people in advance but why should you have to put up with sh!t service just because you are GA. That said I don't believe you will have any problems but plan for jandakot as a sensible alternative and allow enough time for transfers if necessary.

The WAC are usually helpful with information however even though it is the westralian airports commision they are only listed in the telephone directory as Perth airport. They would be the people to advise on safety requirements at the airport but I believe there is a web based induction available which may be worth a visit. I do know that Hi Viz vests are required but that may only be an employee/contractor requirement as passengers are not forced to don such items.

Hope this helps!

[BrazDriver]

IJ,

As of mid last year Perth Airport has made it mandatory for the flouro vest. If you have a PH ASIC it's a 2 strikes and you lose your ASIC! The head safety guy has become quite Gestapo. If he catches you he will boot you landside and not let you continue to your aircraft! (Steer clear of the red Holden Ute!!)

[Lasiorhinus]

How will he even see you though, if you're not wearing a hi-viz vest? Catch-22, I think.


Security guy: Hey you, you weren't wearing a hi-viz vest!
Pilot: Nah, mate, wasn't me.
Security guy: Yes, it was. I saw you.
Pilot: If you saw me, I obviously don't need the vest, do I?:E

[PlankBlender]

Las, nice one, gave me a nice chuckle early in the morning :) I could see the fuming security guy in front of me, fighting to come up with an answer :E

[Zhaadum]

Tell the Gestapo guy to get f%&$#d! I dont care if they take my ASIC. I can get airside at PH without it anytime and no one ever checks anyway.

They have no right to stop you from doing your job. Wankers.

[flyitboy]

"Z" quite right but we do live in a politically correct world.

With the way some of the reply's are coming in here you would think that this was a Communist country! Am out of touch a bit now with the USA but do they treat their pvt pilots with such contempt these days, on & off the ground? There used to be VFR corridoors right over the top of some major airports, there still might be, like to see that here !!
Flying now is big business where the mighty dollar is everything & making money out of the odd lighty coming & going isn't their idea of cutting it!

I remember many years ago now when ML where happy to accomodate lighties (you could actually get 100 oct delivered by truck at Tulla) & I even used to do NVFR into there out of EN just for the thrill of it, to appraoch & ldg at an international airport! PVT pilts pay their taxes, pay their fees where due & ought to have the ability to land pretty much where they want to & when, notwithstanding the busy times where proper planning will reduce delays for all concerned.
Remember some of those PVT pilots wanting to use major airports are indirectly in training to be allowed there latter in their careers.

F

[Ideal Line]

Tell the Gestapo guy to get f%&$#d! I dont care if they take my ASIC. I can get airside at PH without it anytime and no one ever checks anyway.

They have no right to stop you from doing your job. Wankers.

Seriously dude, they cost 10 bucks and take 10 seconds to put on.

[Islander Jock]

BrazDriver, thanks for the headsup:ok:. None of our aircraft go into YPPH all that much but there is the occasional requirement so being prepared is better than dodging the red holden ute.

On thinking about it, I'm surprised it took this long to mandate the requirement. After all, you can't even so much as look at a hand tool on a work site unless you are in top to toe PPE.

Some might like to think of it as a deprivation of civil liberties blah blah blah or think you might like to take on the airport staff over the matter. But just like ASICs and anything else to do with safety or security, no matter how trivial or inappropriate you think it is, try and buck the system and you WILL come off second best every time.

[cac_sabre]

Do your homework
1. Ring ATC day before for suitable time ..between 11am and 1230pm usually good
2. ascertain likely runway configuration for your arrival time and flight plan via a route and level that will guarantee you a minimum amount of delay or hassle, ATC will advise if you ask the question.
3. Contact WAC.. are you going to drop pax off at international terminal or domestic? they will advise you likely parking and transit arrangements , the guy in the red ute is a professional like everyone else on the aerodrome should be
4. Submit flight plan
5. Do more homework, VTC...airspace, frequencies, airport map / taxiway system, radio procedures
6. make sure radio and transponder are ok
7. ask for guidance if required, the western apron and taxiway / taxilane system is a real zoo nowadays
8. be aware of jet blast and dont cross a holding point without a clearance!

[Islander Jock]

As of mid last year Perth Airport has made it mandatory for the flouro vest. If you have a PH ASIC it's a 2 strikes and you lose your ASIC!


Subdivision 6.5.4 of the Aviation Transport Security Regulations 2005 specifies the conditions under which an ASIC may or must be withdrawn. Failing to comply with an airport operators safety rules is not one of them!

You can only have your ASIC withdrawn for failing to comply with the regs so I'd suggest your mate driving around in the red ute is trying a bit of bluff. If they try and take it off you or threaten to for not having your vest on, just ask specifically which section of the regs allows them to do so. That should take a bit of wind out of their sails.

Compliance with the regs is a 2 way street :E

[westausatc]

R4, you have to put up with whatever service we give you because our docs say that going into a capital city airport, GA aircraft are the absolute last priority. As a category 'G' flight, there is noone who you have priority over - everyone else has priority over you. Sorry if this offends, but just telling you why the service given to GA is sometimes woeful compared to the RPT types.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

OK Brendan, pay attention here and I'll tell you how to get top priority for your arrival at YPPH.

First you'll need to ditch the Arrow and find yourself a PA24 Commanche.

Then, at the first sign of getting d*cked around by ATC going into YPPH you say,

"Perth Approach Commanche XXX, do you realise that I am on one engine here?"

That should lift you to the top of the priorities and get you straight in. By the time someone realises that you're flying a PA24 and not a PA30, it'll be too late.

Getting out again may be a whole other challenge - but hey, your Mum and Dad will make their flight - you can't have everything, can you?

Dr :8

[R4+Z]

westausatc

I said you don't have to put up with sh!t service and prefixed that by saying that I never have. I do understand the priorities in place but if you expect them and work within the correct boundaries there shouldn't be a problem, Should there? Its not like we aren't allowed in at all!

[BrazDriver]

Then there is the $500 fee for the ARFF Unit being activated!

IJ,
It was given in writing from Perth Airport to all operators when the vest policy was mandated. From my meetings with the man in question he is the type that will try to make the world bow down to him! If not he will take your ASIC! :}

[Islander Jock]

Braz,
Check your PMs