Griffith Bachelor of Aviation

[PyroTek]

Now it is known by most regulars that I am training for my GFPT at the moment.
I have found that Griffith University has a Bachelor of Aviation course available. We are thinking about it at the moment (WilliamOK and I)
Bachelor of Aviation (http://www17.griffith.edu.au/cis/p_cat/admission.asp?ProgCode=1028&Type=overview)

My question to you all, is:

a) Are there any advantages about this course?
b) Will a potential employer care if you wave a piece of paper saying you have a degree on it?
c) Are there any disadvantages to this course?
d) Will it put me in good steed with the aviation community?
e) Will it take more money out of my pocket than I really intended?

Thanks
Pyro

-puts up potential flame shield-

[jbr76]

Pyrotek,

How far are you into your GFPT?

[PyroTek]

just starting Circuits.
This is something i'd be considering doing from the start of next year onwards. (I would probably be finished my GFPT by then)

[VH-FTS]

From my experience and what I've heard on the grapevine:

a) Are there any advantages about this course?

A degree in Science. You are 'forced' to complete your training and not let it drag on.

b) Will a potential employer care if you wave a piece of paper saying you have a degree on it?

Airlines, maybe. Anyone else, not really. Any degree is never a waste of time.

c) Are there any disadvantages to this course?

I can't think of any. Friends that have done the course haven't said anything negative. But they are in no better position than myself and I didn't do the course.

However, I believe you can only do the flying with a couple of training organisations. I am pretty sure RQAC are involved, but Redcliffe Aero Club are not.

d) Will it put me in good steed with the aviation community?

Rumour has it Qantas/QLink will be wanting all of the successful graduates who started this year onwards.

e) Will it take more money out of my pocket than I really intended?

Yes, but that shouldn't bother you because either your parents will pay or the government will (HECS or fee help or whatever it is called).


Take what I say with a grain of salt.

[VH-FTS]

also the above poster said you have to do it with an "approved organisation". not true at all, even thought it says it on the griffith website and its grilled into you. the only thing griffith gets out of it if you do it with an 'approved organisation' is that they get a small % of all your flying training costs. its nothing more then a deal to make griffith some money, and at the same time, give the local training schools some business


Good to hear it hasn't gone that way. Are they planning to 'tighten the screws' and only allow approved organisations to conduct the flight training in the future?

[atminimums]

currently 3rd year in aviation @ griffith..

Good to hear it hasn't gone that way. Are they planning to 'tighten the screws' and only allow approved organisations to conduct the flight training in the future?

Dont think so, but if your are planning on going for the Q cadetship, then yeh, it has to be approved.

I did my PPL training before the cadetship started up, and it was with a flight school in NSW.. No problems what so ever :ok:

Its been a great course so far.. Met alot of people, good lecturers and good subjects. Enjoy

[mr.tos]

the main reason for me doing the course, was for a 'back up' option if something where to go wrong with me in the future i.e. medical not renewed due health reasons etc. you can master in other aviation areas once uve completed the 3yr degree

If that is the case, you would have been a lot better off doing a degree in another discipline. Then if you did lose your license for whatever reason, you could walk straight into a relatively high paid job.

[PyroTek]

so in this case, with everyone's divine judgment, of course the course would be a positive, and a way to get my training done, but would everyone agree its a better way to get my aviation training done? or not as good?

[Aussie]

Not meaning to Highjack the thread Pyro, but, How does it look for someone wanting to do the degree, who is qualified and flying for an airline already?

DO they credit anything towards the course? Or still full 3 yrs?

Cheers

[PyroTek]

How does it look for someone wanting to do the degree, who is qualified and flying for an airline already?

Sorry, can you please rephrase that?
It might be because i'm tired, or the question is 'odd' in how it is expressed...

[SkyScanner]

you get a really good insight into the workings of the aviation industry. how rules are made, who makes them, who updates them, how the airports are designed, the technology being used, how air routes are made, safety, aircraft performance etc etc...


IMHO this does not help you with your career as much as you think. The airlines want to see that you are making an extra effort after school, so a degree of some sort would be more appropriate. It doesn't mean you have to study it full time. As mr.tos said, you are better off having an education in a different field, given that if there is a downturn in aviation, there may not be many jobs out there. The graduates from degrees such as accounting, law, engineering are desperately sort after at the moment.

[Dragun]

weezythef

iagree wif ur post and all that cos degres r a wast of time & if you wana b a pilet than you could get 1000s off hours and expirince counts way more than eduction in my books anyway.my too cents

Pyrotek - you should listin to this guy





:ugh:

[PyroTek]

HAHAH!
I almost fell off my chair.

Mhm, but yeah, to be honest, no offence, To be completely honest, people with grammar like that have little credibility, IMO.

I reckon I will decide depending on what I feel is best, possibly when i get my senior certificate.

[Hawksley]

the message we got from the qantas rep and bates (course convenor) was that in the next few years as of this year qantas will be opening up alot more positions for their cadetship for griffith aviation students. so its a much better chance than 10%.

[PyroTek]

yeah i understand it doesn't guarantee a position in QF or VB or J* etc. but would it put me a step up on other candidates going for the same job as me in the future?

And how much of it is actually to do with flying etc.? (as opposed to general physics not to do completely with flying)

[PyroTek]

I believe that if you have the minimum requirements then a degree would place you a step above a person with the same endo's, ratings, and hours as you.
Am I right guys?

[PyroTek]

well its not long till i'm 18, so thats not a matter..
I'm just thinking, i'm going to either have to work and train constantly and attempt to get my CPL like that, or do this degree, adn still have to pay my training...

Is it possible to take out loans?

[PyroTek]

rep: i regret to say:
these training organisations all say that you must forward the money for training to the relevant flying school, not eligible for hecs.

[j3pipercub]

WEEZYTHEF!!!

You're slagging off the degree saying it won't help you get a job etc etc etc and when I do a search on your forum contrbutions, you're asking whether or not Coastjet is a good MECIR school and 'hoping to get your CPL done by may'. So now I ask you this question as calmly as possible:

HOW THE F#CK WOULD YOU KNOW?

You haven't even left flying school, let alone been in the industry for any decent amount of time (Read: at least four years is considered a decent time). Please, you aren't in the position to even comment on whether or not a degree will help with your career, YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A LICENSE YET SPROG!

Pyro, I did the degree, It was hard, but it actually covered all of the ATPL subjects in the three years. It makes life a whole lot easier when you sit the ATPL cyberexams cos the Uni stuff is harder but more in depth. You make friends and contacts in the course that give you a network when you finish that is very useful. I got my first turbine job through this network and subsequently helped two other uni friends get in with the same company.

If I had my time over, I would have still done the course, the lessons you learn and the insight into the entire aviation industry were invaluable.

Aussie, in answer to your q. I believe you get 3 semesters worth of credit for having over 1500 hours and an ATPL

j3

[PyroTek]

mm, always wondered about weezythef's credibility.
I'll keep that in mind, j3, was it full time? or were you able to do a job while you did the course to pay off your training?
I reckon doing all the ATPL subjects would put you ahead too ey?

Dan

[j3pipercub]

You could choose to do either, I did the last 18 months externally in order to work, but if you are in brisbane that doesn't stop you from going to lectures. The best idea if available is to do the CPL thoery before the end of the 1st year so then you can almsot start knocking off the ATP's once you've done the subjects at uni, witha little help from Nathan higgins books or the like. Sure beats having to take time off from work to do a full time course.

[Hawksley]

oh WEEZYTHEf, " keep hearing the mentioning of this hecs BS but no one has ever shown any evidence, not even the slightest of it" have you even done a search under this subject anywhere??? as of 2008 your flying training can be paid for under the FEE-HELP program if you do the grad dip in flight management along with the bachelor of aviation degree at griffith, however CASA Fees and theory fees must be paid for by the student. Do some research before you make such bold comments haha :ugh:

some evidence:
What is the cost of the Bachelor's Degree and Graduate Diploma Program?

The anticipated University tuition fees for the 2008 Cadets undertaking the Bachelor's Degree is approximately $16,000 for the Bachelor's Degree component. Students may wish to use the Federal Government's HECS-HELP Scheme to offset these costs.
The cost of University tuition fees for the Graduate Diploma will be approximately $80,000. Cadets may wish to use the Federal Government's FEE-HELP Scheme to offset a large portion of the up-front costs of the Graduate Diploma. Whilst utilising FEE-HELP a Graduate Diploma Cadet could expect to offset up to $80,000. This includes but is not limited to the cost of University tuition fees for the Graduate Diploma including flight training competencies.
For additional information relating to FEE-HELP and other fees that may be incurred outside FEE-HELP, please see the information further below.
What expenses will I incur outside that available through FEE-HELP?

There is a list of University administrative and miscellaneous charges which students may incur during their university career on the Griffith website.
Other expenses a student may incur include:

Selection assessment costs
The cost of all theory linked to Pilot Licences and Ratings
Flight test costs
CASA exams
Textbooks related to CASA exams and University courses
Accommodation costsInformation regarding the exact cost for these items will be available from the approved Flight Training Organisation or the University. Other unforeseen expenses may occur from time to time.
Is financial assistance available?

Flight Training is a component of the Bachelor's Degree and Graduate Diploma Program. It is at the discretion of the individual how the Program is paid for, however, eligible students may wish to use FEE-HELP to assist with the payment. FEE-HELP is a loan available to eligible students to cover the tuition fee.
Whilst utilising FEE-HELP a Cadet could expect to offset up to $80,000. This includes but is not limited to the cost of University tuition fees for the Graduate Diploma including flight training competencies.
For information regarding FEE-HELP eligibility, please see the DEST Going to Uni (http://www.goingtouni.gov.au/) website.


from : http://www.qantas.com.au/info/about/employment/pilotsCadetGraduatedip

[Aussie]

Gday mate, thanks for the head up....

Also, any idea if the last 3 semesters can be completed extenally and more importantly overseas... Also the 1500hrs and ATPL req, does that count if u Have a JAA ATPL and 1500hrs?

Cheers

[jbr76]

http://www.htloz.net/forums/grill/thread-hijack.jpg

[VH-JPS]

Weezy.
Mate. Stop now. You're killing the little credit you had left.
Just because Daddies a skipper, does not give you any wisdom on anything mate. I mean, just look at your grammar. Im pretty sure you have heard of a few people who want to do the "4+ year degree", just look at the forum your slurring absolute sh*t in. And 4+ years? You must have the best imagination ever. Stop wasting valuable space in the Aviation Industry and go be and artist or something. People don't want you hijacking threads and causing ****.

[Hawksley]

weez.. i believe you said "your living in a dream..." "There's no hecs for flying anywhere and if you have some evidence then please provide" and i did and know your saying you cant find anyone who would want to do it??? hahah make up your mind about what your trying to argue. Oh and the degree itself is 3 years.. nice research.

[Hawksley]

you do the grad dip over the three years on top of your other degree requirements

[Dragun]

weezythef is not interested in the weakness of this forum where arguments and personal opinions seem to turn into throw and bag games all the time and is herefore leaving pprune for good effective immediately

Thank God for that - the last thing anyone really wants on here is another person who knows nothing about everything.

Good riddance.

[j3pipercub]

Nah guyz youse has it all wrong ya dig!!! yeah, ok, good one dude, even funnier when he says he has no intention of joining Q. HA! nearly fell of my chair laughing.

Good riddance dude, with all this time wasted on Prune, you're just delaying your May deadline to get all your CPL subjects done, and that's even WITH daddy paying you to go to the ground theory courses! It really wasn't a good move telling everyone your old man is a QF Skipper, if you had been in the industry 'all your life'

j3

PS

OH WEEZ, Still know you'll be reading this, even if you don't reply. So just in answer to your little points

A) JUST COS THE OLD MAN IS A QF SKIPPER DOESN'T MEAN YOU KNOW A THING, IN FACT YOU'RE PROBABLY FURTHER REMOVED FROM THE REAL WORLD, BUT IT'S OK, I'M SURE HE'LL GET YOU A JOB FLYING A BARON OR SOMETHING AS YOUR FIRST JOB. NAH HE WOULDN'T - YOU'LL BE A CADET

B) YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T DO YOUR RESEARCH, THAT IS BLEEDINGLY OBVIOUS

C) WE DON'T HAVE TO PROVE YOU WRONG, YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELF FROM POST TO POST

D) YOU WILL JOIN QANTAS, IT'S JUST WHAT HAPPENS

E) WHAT'S WITH THE THIRD PERSON POST? OH, NEVERMIND, YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS

MMMMMMMMMMM END THIS POST J3 NOW WILL MMMMMMMMMMM

j3

[clear to land]

Aussie, I am in the sandpit and doing the GU degree completely on line - with associated credit for experience (50% so 12 subjects to complete from commencement). Email them(Griffith - look up school of aviation contacts from website ) they are very helpful. Subjects around $AU900 each. :)

[172capt]

I would tend to agree with weezythef with his statement that:

"QF cadets are doing the same course as you, that puts you in a fair position to just pass the selections and get into the cadetship workplacement."

I know that the Airline Academy at archerfield offers full time cadet style training, and from my dealings with the organisation they offer a professional and experienced team. But i have heard they may have dealings with qantas (and their cadet program) in the near future, so as to draw comparisions there as far as training similarities are concerned...

I also have friends involved with the bachelor of aviation and they stand by the fact that they would much rather jump straight into a full time program, the airlines need pilots now, positions which will be filled by the time a four year degree is finished.

Then again i am a little biased...

[Aussie]

Thanks for the info mate! So they credit you 50%... wasnt sure if that was true or not! How are you finding it? In between a job and doing it externally as well? Your 39 and in an airline....? WHat do you hope to achieve from it? Im guessing you already have the job so the degree wont be helping you get that!?

Thanks

[clear to land]

Aussie, check your pm's. CTL.

[miss_pilot]

weezythef,

You retard, it pretty much all goes on fee-help, like that other person said. The degree is an invaluable experience to learn things you would never learn at just a flight training school, and meet more people in the industry than im sure not even your daddy knows. Say for instance how many times has he had dinner with Chris Manning? Don't say that it isn't a benefit doing this degree, it has already opened up jobs in the industry for myself and many other people in my year.

And it is only 3 years with the bachelor of aviation and grad dip. Still want to argue that? Im doing it.

I sincerely hope that i never, ever end up sitting next to someone as stupid and ignorant as you on the flight deck, although considering your clear lack of brains judging by your inability to do any research and use any grammer, im assuming that you will never make it that far.

[Macarto]

I don't quite understand how does the bachelor of Aviation course which offers a degree can incorporate flying at the same time with a CPL of 200 hours. How is it that we find time to fly and study concurrently. Are the flying schools within the university campus and are the planes own by them. Or are the approved flying clubs responsible for this training and it is up to the individual to earn his CPL at his own pace with the club in that 3 years. What if during that 3 years, you did very well and got your degree and are offered an honours but you have not complete your CPL at that time and will not be able to complete it after your studies in the university?

Please advise particularly students who have gone through the course over at Griffith University.

[Ozzie Mozzie]

With the current setup, students start flying in second year and get their gfpt by the end of that year. during second year you would ideally smash 5 subjects a semester and that will mean that you would... hell, i cant be stuffed, go to the uni website and have a look: Griffith University | Bachelor of Aviation - Nathan (http://www17.griffith.edu.au/cis/p_cat/require.asp?ProgCode=1028&Type=structure)

[Ozzie Mozzie]

actually, in fairness that doesn't cover the flying that well. If you want FEE-HELP, you have to fly at AAA (or maybe RQAC as well), which is a shame IMO as it seems unnecessarily expensive, but there you are. As above, you would go through to GFPT by the end of second year and then do PPL and CPL in your third year, and you have the choice of doing an instructors rating or MECIR. In an ideal world, you would be finished with the flying training about 6 months after university studies.

[millonario]

Be very careful with the Bachelor of Aviation from Griffith University. It looks great on paper, but unfortunately the reality is not quite what you would expect. Firstly, they claim it to be a 3 year degree. Now think to yourselves how that is possible considering you are doing a full-time degree with at least 40-50cp a semester on top of completing your professional flight training. Oh, and all the airplanes are always booked out anyways and students rarely get a PPL before their 3rd year. You then won't graduate and have to enroll at your local flying school full-time and eventually obtain your degree and pilot qualifications after 5 years, spending more of your pocket money on rent/food while working at Starbucks rather than FLYING. Furthermore, it won't get you any closer into guarantying a job in an airline. All these courses that Griffith provide don't mean sh*t when getting an interview. If anything, the Bachelor of Aviation will delay your flying progress and make you do remedial flights over and over again in response to having a huge workload at uni. So, are you really saving money? Well, it is understandable that many Australians choose this method because of FEE-HELP, but remember you are taking LOANS and on top of that, you will have to work your butt off for 5 years not to get evicted from your flat. So let's summarize this in a bit more detail:

* It will take 5 years for you to be ready for a job
* By the time you reach your CPL stage of flying, you might have already been at the controls of a jet.
* You will walk away without a job guarantee and 120,000 Dollar debt in tuition fees
* Forget about having a social life as you will have to work weekends and night shifts just to get by
* The psychological pressures as a consequence of the hardships you will have to endure might have a chronic effect on your well-being.
* A high margin for giving up and walking away

The only good thing I personally have ever experienced through this degree are the fellow students I met along the way and the guest speakers who the aviation school invited from time to time. Other than that, I have nothing good to say about aviation@griffith.

I would however like to stress the importance of obtaining a degree. Your journey through university will allow you to meet all kinds of people, experience hardships that will make you stronger, and eventually obtain a university qualification that might open a lot of doors for you in case you don't make it as a pilot. However, the Bachelor of Aviation is as good as toilet paper, so maybe consider studying something that will be of more use such as business, economics or general sciences.....

Also, if you are an international student, STAY AWAY by all means as converting you license will be a nightmare and you might have problems obtaining a new visa if you don't finish within the 3 year time-frame. How fun would that be after reaching the half-way mark?

By the way, I did graduate from the Bachelor of Aviation and I am working now. However, I hope no one get's fooled and have to endure the hardships I had to go through. It is not worth it and remember that there are many better options out there!

Good luck with everything and always keep the dream alive!
(http://www.pprune.org/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=6703932)

[PyroTek]

Quick update for those who are interested, did the 150 hour CPL course through a small flying school, I am pleased I took this route. I have a few friends who are currently in Aviation@Grifftafe. I hear that flying is being pushed back by a year or so due to the amount of students. There are other details but I won't canvas them here.

[SpaceMonkey29]

Hi there,

I'm a current Griffith Aviation student and I'd have to say I agree 95% with millonaro. The degree (especially the flight training component) seems very unorganized and "up in the air" if you'd excuse the pun.

However, like millonaro mentioned the huge benefit of doing the degree is the amount of industry professionals you meet. I've been fortunate enough to meet people like A380 pilot Richard de Crespigny; the Captain onboard the Qantas A380 who's engine blew whilst departing Singapore last year. Also was fortunate enough to meet Red Bull Air Race pilot Matt Hall, the CEO of CASA Captain John McCormick and a few other well known aviators through circumstances made possible by Griffith.

On top of that most of the lecturers are top notch as well. So there's no doubt that there's quality education available.

The main downfall of the Griffith program is the lack of communication between the students and the people running it. For example, in my case they delayed around 150 student's flight training for a year, only 2 weeks before it was due to start, without any prior notice. A lot of students had made sacrifices in preparation for training only to be told, "sorry, next year". One can only be so tolerant.

So in my point of view, the degree has its fair share of positives (meeting industry professionals, great lecturers/quality education, making loads of friends etc.) but you really do need a decent raincoat as you will get shat on a fair few times.

Best of luck with the flying!

[Lpierpoint]

Hi, just wondering out any one who commented on this thread that was at Griffith doing the bachelor and have since completed it, is it worth it?? Have you since found work ? And where are you working?

I already have my PPL and am looking to enrol for this February in the bachelor and the diploma and any feedback would be appreciated.

Cheers

[Seabreeze]

Be aware that Griffith does not deliver any flying training at all. Flying training is all subcontracted out to some private company, who presumably will also have walk-in flying students not doing the Griffith program. Who has priority, and who gets what instructors? Who delivers CASA required ground theory subjects, specifically who delivers the ATPL (which is where many smaller flying schools come badly unstuck).

It is also unclear who sets (or tries to set) training quality standards for Griffith students. Pat Murray's departure to U Southern Qld was a great gain to USQ, and a great loss of training expertise to GU.

With the uncertainties bubbling away and not explained on the GU website, and no clear academic staff list apparent, I advise all prospective flying students to look around at other options....

Good luck

Seabreeze

[TurboProp2120]

I just recently looked at this option for training, however it seems fairly superfluous content given my end game is a CPL and I had already done more than enough years at uni I decided against it.

Would be interested to hear others thoughts though.

[outlandishoutlanding]

Currently it appears to be Basair doing the griffith training.

Griffith also seems to be the only place getting you into the graduate pilot scheme in the RAAF, if that appeals to you (and you are of the appropriate sex).

However, I saw rumours elsewhere of sexual harassment of female aviation students there so take of that what you will.

[Seabreeze]

Yet another facts "spin".

Griffith does not get anyone into the RAAF. Look at the fine print.

IF a person who is a Griffith student gets into the RAAF (by the normal route, where there is no preference to Griffith students) then Griffith will allow the RAAF flying training to be counted as part of the Griffith degree.

AS I INTERPRET IT THE FINE PRINT DOES NOT BESTOW ANY ADVANTAGES IN TERMS OF GRIFFITH STUDENTS BEING GIVEN SPECIAL ACCESS TO RAAF ACCEPTANCE. Does anyone care to advise otherwise?

SB

[chance]

Griffith have a history of claiming the inside running into various organisations.. Cathay Pacific was a big spin some time ago now the RAAF etc.
Both organisation have their standards of entry and if you don't cut the mustard you won't be accepted whether you come from Griffith or anywhere.


Most GU students will struggle to: a) pass the CPL flying b) get an aviation flying job c) realise their ill conceived dreams of flying for an airline.


Griffith are big on spin and once the yearly census date has passed they get the $$$ from the Feds via Fee Help (HECS) and don't particularly care if you don't finish as they will not have to pay out the aviation training provider for wasted flying training.


If you want an airline job, just do the CPL straight up and then go get a job. Most people who follow this route have the motivation to succeed, something frequently lacking in uni based program cadets.

[outlandishoutlanding]

"If you’re young, female, and already studying a Bachelor of Aviation Degree at Griffith University, you can apply for the Air Force Graduate Pilot Scheme (GPS). If accepted you’ll get:

• all your university degree fees paid for,

• a salary while you complete your flying hours,

• your practical flying hours paid for, and

• as little as three years service obligation after receiving your wings."