'Commitment Bonus' of £15,000 for the military

[alfie1999]

Announced by Brown in the commons. No doubt the £15,000 will be divided between all those serving.

Along with funds to encourage those serving to get on the housing market...just as the arse is fallling out of it.

[Whenurhappy]

Where are the details - nothing on the BBC yet...

[alfie1999]

I said he'd just announced it in the house.

Switch sky news on.

[cargosales]

Not much detail on the Beeb yet

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7303846.stm

It just says "Amongst other changes, he [Brown] also said there would be £15,000 bonuses for some long-serving military personnel"

Note the words some and long-serving before getting too excited.

[Wensleydale]

The small print says that the bonus will be paid in Northern Rock shares..... (After it has been taxed at 40% of course)!;)


I have just realised that Heather Mills has received nearly £25.000.000 for a "Non-commitment Bonus". Putting this into perspective, the Prime Minister, like Heather, doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[Yellow Sun]

Why don't the Government pay someone who has completed their pensionable engagement their gratuity if they are staying in the Forces?

This is a hoary old one that has done the rounds almost as often as pensionable Flying Pay. The primary reason is that it would make the gratuity liable to tax. Changing the rules to exempt it would open the largest can of worms imaginable, it really is better off the way it is.

YS

[XV410]

Here.

http://defenceintranet.diiweb.r.mil.uk/DefenceIntranet/News/DefenceNews/MOD/NewMeasuresToRewardAndRetainForcesPersonnel.htm

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[mutleyfour]

These things don't seem to work, as the cadre of those that qualify are usually small and after tax is £9000 going to encourage those wanting to leave to re consider.

[FFP]

From the MOD Website

All those personnel below Officer level passing the four year service point will have access to the new Commitment Bonus scheme from next year. The longer they serve the higher the payment will be. The scheme is designed to reward past service and to encourage further retention in the critical four to eight year period, where we face the greatest retention challenge.

Fair enough. Good on anyone who can get a retention out of the Govt.

So, if your a F/L, front line, away on dets you still get nothing ?

Sounds like that could become another "push" factor in the critical area of 30-34 year olds that we lose to the airlines / civilian world....

[airborne_artist]

From the MoD website:

The new incentives include a significant increase to retention bonuses for personnel below officer level, of up to £15,000, and a new £20m pilot schemeSounded quite exciting for aircrew, until I read on...."which will offer more affordable home ownership for Service personnel..."

[cja197]

Details here (not for Offrs)

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness/NewMeasuresToRewardAndRetainForcesPersonnel.htm

[Melchett01]

All those personnel below Officer level passing the four year service point will have access to the new Commitment Bonus scheme from next year. The longer they serve the higher the payment will be. The scheme is designed to reward past service and to encourage further retention in the critical four to eight year period, where we face the greatest retention challenge

...... after which point we will no longer be in govt so we can blame it on the other lot when everyone leaves.

Does smack somewhat of 'the officer class' not being worthy of recognition or the government really being keen on retaining our services. Which would be typical of this bunch of Scottish socialists (I always thought this government was a wolf in sheep's clothing) who want to do all they can for the 'workers' and everyone else can be damned.

The real kick in the teeth here is for those of us at SO3 level. We are expected to look after those below us. The senior officers on their career & staff college pushes only seem interested in looking after themselves. So just who is looking after the JOs? Given today's announcment, it would appear that we still have to look after ourselves because no other bugger is interested in us. And looking at some of the Arrse threads in recent months, it appears a large number of their SO3s have been looking after themselves and walking.

Still never mind, got another 4 months in the sandpit to look forward to this summer - 4th in 5 yrs - all that time sitting in the shelters with my kevlar on will give me the opportunity to work out why all the past service I and those like me have put in isn't worthy of financial recognition and an encouragement to stay.

And what are the odds of everyone getting this 'retention bonus' - down to the fat airman in stores who doesn't even own a passport let alone go on det and whose repeated fitness test failures are probably such an admin burden we could do well without him. It just makes you want to scream sometimes.

[Squawk7143]

Strange how things work out...in the late 80's and early 90's they were paying JNCO A Tech's and L Tech's to leave the RAF. Now they are paying to keep people in....

[Melchett01]

Flt Lt Mac

I have absolutely no problem with the troops getting a commitment bonus. What annoys me is the way it is being phrased - that it is to reward commitment and encourage retention.

Well I think you will find many of the officers across all services are serving longer than the troops - despite everything that happens. Where is the commitment bonus there then? And if you want to talk about officers sitting in shelters and not facing the Taliban face to face, RAF Regt aside, I wonder what the proportion of RAF personnel going outside the wire to get their hands dirty are officers and what proportion are from the ranks .... in case you had forgotten or just not noticed, the RAF is almost unique amongst the services in sending its officers off to face the enemy.

Anyway, I was not intending to start an officers/ORs debate, merely wondering why there is rarely anything in the pot to encourage us to stay and hacked off at the cack handed way it's being done - yet again.

[Aeronut]

what is an S03?

[ZH875]

what is an S03?

He's the one who tries to take credit for the work his SNCO's do. :p (unless he is a Geordie)

[Pontius Navigator]

what is an S03?

SO=Staff Officer and the 3=Capt/Flt Lt etc, 2=Maj/sqn Ldr, and 1=Lt Col/Wg Cdr

You therefore have the alphabet soup of J2 SO3 etc


What was wrong with the old Ops 1, Ops 1a etc.?

[shandyman]

I feel an increasing urge for a rant in relation to Melchett01's post. When one looks a little closer, I think that you will find 'The Mighty Rod' has a rather high Airman to Officer ratio. I think that you will also find a significant amount of airmen, aircrew and groundcrew, manning quite a few of our other air assets "facing the enemy". Willing to wager in fact that the ratio overall is pretty equal!!

[Wrathmonk]

Of course If you wanted the commitment bonus that badly you could always resign your commission and rejoin as an AC/LAC!:p

[Melchett01]

How do you know how it is being handled? There are only scant details on the MOD Website at the moment.

Easy - show me something that Brown(e) et al have done for the military (I could stop there) that hasn't turned into a crock of ****e or been mishandled. I'm surprised you even need to ask that question, just look around you - JPA, SF CH-47s, DHMH, Iraq in general, Type 45 procurement, body armour provision etc etc.

Quote:
We are expected to look after those below us.

I can only apologise if the men and women who serve below you are such an inconvenience to. Imagine he cheek of the RAF asking you to look after these people, shocking. Perhaps the MOD should remove your flying pay whilst you are on your ground tour?


I never said it was an inconvenience - that was your assumption. And who knows, it maybe for some. What I was merely asking, which you seem to have missed completely is who is looking after those in the middle. There is a definite lack of support or recognition for those in positions above the junior ranks and below the senior officers. Imagine the cheek of those in middle positions to expect a bit of support and recognition from up top, shocking!

I fail to see what is wrong with asking who is supporting those in the middle, but obviously you disagree there. However, you come across as a well balanced ex-ranker with that sort of response - a chip on each shoulder from time at Cranwell and as a grizzled NCO down at the coalface :E

[Training Risky]

Erm...

Maybe Melchett was being 'sarcastic' in his use of inverted commas...?

And in doing so was trying to illustrate the fuzzy, class-obsessed thinking demonstrated by this shower of sh!t we have in government while not appearing to actually back this line of thinking...?

Just a thought.

[C130 Techie]

I'm pleased to say my 100% record remains intact. Over the last 30 years I have missed every financial bonus retention incentive that has been offered.:ouch:

[ZH875]

C130 Techie, you are not alone....:*

[clapperboard]

Does anyone have any concrete details on this? All i can see is that the already inplace bonuses are being bolstered and once again will be paid to people who were staying in anyway:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[formertonkaplum]

And surley they have forgotten the other Cadre of people they are struggling to retain, Experienced JNCO / SNCO's!

It is these who are getting fed up with lies, reductions and less resources and jumping ship. What retention incentive are they getting?

Apart from the Arse-kisser "If you don't like it leave" comment.

So that will be................. Nil.

[Al R]

Cargosales said:
Not much detail on the Beeb yet

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7303846.stm

It just says "Amongst other changes, he [Brown] also said there would be £15,000 bonuses for some long-serving military personnel"

Note the words some and long-serving before getting too excited.


I read that link, and was stumped at the tone of it. Genuinely. And then it hit me. The g'ment was doing something other than taxing us until we squeek, churning our boll#cks press releases and useless spin, interfering in lives, telling them what to do, forming more useless Agencies, devolving accountability to greedy wide eyed power mad parochial public bodies, forming quangos, riding roughshod over things like democracy and accountability, and generally acting like a crazed parish council but on a bigger scale.

[samuraimatt]

I read that link, and was stumped at the tone of it. Genuinely. And then it hit me. The g'ment was doing something other than taxing us until we squeek, churning our boll#cks press releases and useless spin, interfering in lives, telling them what to do, forming more useless Agencies, devolving accountability to greedy wide eyed power mad parochial public bodies, forming quangos, riding roughshod over things like democracy and accountability, and generally acting like a crazed parish council but on a bigger scale.

Oh Christ, I wondered how long it would take before our resident anti government spokesman would start spouting his expert opinion on something that doesn't even concern him. You have shown your commitment.
Let it go Al. Stick to telling stories of deliberately using too many CS tablets in the chamber.:ok:

[endplay]

With regard to any rank it seems to me that you get what circumstances and the environment dictate. The cold war years required an entirely diferent animal than that needed today but the quality of the individuals meant that some rose to the challenge and some didn't. The committment required to serve in the military of any era should put us all beyond any petty internal sniping so lets just acknowledge that we are all a cut above the rest and even those that. inevitably. fall below the line are above average by virtue of making the attempt.

[Grabbers]

At the risk of returning this thread back to topic, will the 15,000 be paid to personnel at their 4-8 yr point or will it be paid 4-8 years after their 22 year point? Not completely clear to me, I'm afraid.

[SirPercyWare-Armitag]

So we are agreed then? This is another divisive move by the Government that results in us turning on each other?

Sod the bloody bonus. Why can't soldiers have their pay increased so they earn a decent wage? Then worry about bonuses.

Maybe if everyone was paid decently, people wouldnt leave. Maybe if we all knew our families would be looked after if the worse happened, then retention wouldnt be an issue.

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

I'm pleased to say my 100% record remains intact. Over the last 30 years I have missed every financial bonus retention incentive that has been offered.:ouch:

Join the club :*

[dessert_flyer]

Just a guess but surely this retention is aimed at your front line soldier, who is leaving the Army after 3 or 6 years. From what i gather there is a real problem with retention within the Army for the private on the front line, so to give these guys up to £15000 to go out and come face to face with the Taleban certainly gets my vote, especially as they are on c**p wages anyway. The cost of training a new soldier is far more than persuading a soldier to do an extra few years. This then comes across to the RAF, where we are lossing an awful lot of skilled manpower after 3 or 6 years, essentialy these people can earn far more in civvy street with less hassle, so they are pvr'ing in their droves. Once again it is more cost effective to give higher retention incentives than to train another airman. I cant believe it is there to keep our higher and longer serving personell in the service, lets face it, if the higher ranks leave then their is more promotion and therefore a good retention tool for those coming up through the ranks. Yes you will loose a lot of good experienced SNCO's, but last i looked that was never a big problem as the quality of guys coming up is high, (except in a few cases where we really really did not need to loose particular SNCO's who were exceptional). As for the 'Officer class', well there is a whole raft of young officers trying to fill the boots of those of you higher up the food chain. It has been proven that the pilot FRI did not keep that many in, and those young thrusters have, and still are leaving in their droves to the airlines, (and who can blame them). For the Navigators of this world, well there isnt a great deal out there for them anymore, just as their isnt for many Airman Aircrew, and so to take their wages, which for many is far higher than they could get in civvy street, is an easy choice.
Like i said this is really aimed at the junior ranks, and is essentially a no cost option for the government, and help keeps some good soldiers in a place where we do really need them


DF

[Salusa]

You know something which I heard?

And I am pretty sure it’s true...

In Singapore they pay their Air Force pilots the going rate (i.e. they earn just as much as if they were flying heavy’s for SQ). They therefore retain the best of the crop and its conisdered a real career.

Basically it comes down to investment and support of your country which the one eyed Broown is sadly lacking in.

[dallas]

I think dessert_flyer is just about on the money. Experience isn't tangible - bums on seats are. Most people who've done 9+ years (officer) and 15+ (enlisted) are either chasing promotion or pension, so they're staying for the short term. New recruits take a few years to start seeing the cracks, so the 'vulnerable', for whom pensions are boring and way too far off are the 6-10 year crowd, who also happen to have age on their side. They're also quite well trained, normally quite fit and possibly buyable with 15k.

The longer term problem will be when the 'options' people exit, which is already happening now en masse, but recruitment fails to feed in replacements on the bottom rung. Promotion will be great in the short term and counterbalance some exits, but ultimately salary won't compensate for same old issues - even fewer people and worn out kit - especially as the forecast is even worse.

So, dare I say it, the fix is somewhat short-sighted.

[South Bound]

The £15k seems a fairly sensible approach to me - a comparatively small outlay to keep a trained soldier/sailor/airman in for another few years. Of course, it does mean that those who were going to stay anyway will get the money as well, but that is no different to any of the other FRIs handed out in the past.

I have long given up any hope that anyone was going to show an interest in retaining someone in my rank/specialisation, and while I would love someone to throw a bonus my way, it is not going to happen. IMHO, there is a general acceptance that FRIs cannot compensate certain people when compared to opportunities outside/pressures of Service vs home life at key stages. They are now focussing on keeping people in at the early stages of a career, rather than fighting a losing battle with those that have been in 10-15 years and know their own minds.

[Wrathmonk]

Of course you get nothing for nothing so how is this to be paid for - end of CEA anyone .... :E

[The Dodger]

I agree with some folks here, this bonus scheme should be aimed more at the retention of the Soilder, Sailor and Airmen. I left the Airforce last week to a Civillian Airline job, which I hope will turn into a great Career. I used to think the same of the Airforce when I first joined up. Indeed things at first looked great. I loved every minute of it. However with all the problems the services are facing with housing and quality of life etc, I knew that I had to go, to have a chance of a career I want in Aviation. The money the Airforce offers to engineers or aircrew today, is no way competitive enough to that of the Airlines. The goverment for once is doing something to try and stop experinced bods from leaving. Unfortunatly I think it's too late. It would have taken me another load of years in the Airforce, doing OOA, station duties etc, to fight for a promotion and pay rise which I am getting now. Just by leaving I have already improved my quality of life. What does that say. :uhoh:

[No Vote Joe]

Any details of who is exactly eligable and for what return of service?

If it's anything like the last few, then 15k less tax = 9k, for 5 years return = £1800 a year. Is that really going to keep people in? Probably not.

The guy that is already pensionable with the option of a job outside paying roughly what he has already, plus pension plus gratuity is far more attractive.

[No Vote Joe]

10 out of 10 for optimism!! :D

[Truck2005]

Has it all come down to money? If this is all the government think of the guys then god help us.

[No Vote Joe]

Maybe it has, but lets face it, £1800 doesn't even pay for a half decent holiday for Mr+Mrs+2 kids in Benidorm these days.

Half baked and nowhere near enough in my opinion. More soundbites for the press.

[SRENNAPS]

I'm pleased to say my 100% record remains intact. Over the last 30 years I have missed every financial bonus retention incentive that has been offered.

Same here.

However, I would suggest that you, like me, did not need one.

I stayed in for 29 years because I enjoyed it. Job satisfaction was everything and family quality of life was superb.

Financial bonus retention incentives are a short sighted answer to a problem that exists now. For many years more money was on offer for jobs in civvy street and that will always be the case. However, most stayed in because they enjoyed the life associated with the RAF. If you have to beg somebody to stay in by paying them a retention bonus then something has sadly gone very wrong.

I do not know what the answer is in this modern materialistic world we live in (I do have a few old fashioned ideas), but simply offering more money is not the solution. You cannot buy loyalty, commitment, dedication and love.

[samuraimatt]

I stayed in for 29 years because I enjoyed it. Job satisfaction was everything and family quality of life was superb.

Financial bonus retention incentives are a short sighted answer to a problem that exists now. For many years more money was on offer for jobs in civvy street and that will always be the case. However, most stayed in because they enjoyed the life associated with the RAF. If you have to beg somebody to stay in by paying them a retention bonus then something has sadly gone very wrong.It is good to actually see someone telling the truth for once. As for your last sentence, whilst I agree that things are not right, many civillian firms pay incentives to keep employees on their books so isn't this just the same thng? Would you turn the money down?

[Irish Tempest]

Can someone please explain, why the :mad: did I work hard at school, graft my way through 3rd level education and then pass out from Orificer Skule, work through a plethora of service training, courses operational tours... and now over 10 yrs downwind - I am getting seen off another :mad: PR chasing incentive ???

It seems that if you do the FTC tick in the box that is you screwed by any future offers of this crass type of retention measure. Whichever pin striped dork in MOD MB advised the PM that this would sort out his problems needs a serious w/e away, with one night being spent in a S/R/SNCO Mess and another evening in a Wardroom/Officers Mess... wheelchair anyone?

Seriously :mad: p#ssed....

[abbotyobs]

Commitment Bonus announcement soonish for Officer types, anyone?

[RigPig]

formertonkaplum wrote;
"And surley they have forgotten the other Cadre of people they are struggling to retain, Experienced JNCO / SNCO's!

It is these who are getting fed up with lies, reductions and less resources and jumping ship. What retention incentive are they getting? "

It is called the pension trap. You can have some money when you leave. If you leave to soon you dont get it.

[Rigga]

I see that the poor officer classes clearly do not approve of this idea of Gordon buying more time from "OR's". I would say to look to your own payslips before you criticise any Junior Rank's commitment.
The disapproval you feel is exactly what OR's felt when the officer class was "bought" by previous governments using FRI's and none were offered to them.
However, the use of LEAN and continuous manning, support and cost cuts during these times have ensured the day when there would be a shortage of OR's for officers to command.

Awaiting the incoming ......

[Melchett01]

I think 'theprior' has summed it up far more eloquently than I did in my initial question about who is looking after those in the middle if the middle are looking after the bottom and the top are looking after themselves.

I see that the poor officer classes clearly do not approve of this idea of Gordon buying more time from "OR's". I would say to look to your own payslips before you criticise any Junior Rank's commitment.


I thought we already 'bought more time' from the ORs in the form of the 4 and 7 yr signing on payments? The point that you are missing here Rigga is that this is being pushed as a commitment bonus. As 'theprior' suggested, by giving 'commitment' bonuses to certain groups, it creates disquiet and more than a little annoyance amongst those who don't get them - the implication being that they are not commited and don't deserve a 'commitment' bonus. Which is clearly not the case - at any level or trade in the RAF.

[True Blue Jack]

I thought we already 'bought more time' from the ORs in the form of the 4 and 7 yr signing on payments? The point that you are missing here Rigga is that this is being pushed as a commitment bonus. As 'theprior' suggested, by giving 'commitment' bonuses to certain groups, it creates disquiet and more than a little annoyance amongst those who don't get them - the implication being that they are not commited and don't deserve a 'commitment' bonus. Which is clearly not the case - at any level or trade in the RAF.

I agree completely and this happened when we in the lower echelons saw the aircrew getting FRI payments of a magnitude which would have had a significant impact on the quality of our lives.

I got my RI bonuses (£3K and £2.5K) at the 4.5 and 7.5 year points and I was happy to receive them. However, I would still be in the RAF today if I hadn't because at those stages in my career I considered myself to be in for the long haul. This new bonus is once again targeted at the wrong section of our population.

[Sospan]

"This new bonus is once again targeted at the wrong section of our population."

Have they announced the details then ?

[True Blue Jack]

Have they announced the details then ?

The same as everybody else, I know what's been published in the news and on the MoD website, vis:


All those personnel below Officer level passing the four year service point will have access to the new Commitment Bonus scheme from next year. The longer they serve the higher the payment will be. The scheme is designed to reward past service and to encourage further retention in the critical four to eight year period, where we face the greatest retention challenge.

It seems fairly self-explanatory to me. If you are an officer or have completed more than 8 years' service the government doesn't see a need to give you a reason to stay.