NZALPA Info

[astinapilot]

Hi

Looking at joining. What I am trying to find out is, does the 1% provide you with LOL insurance or is that an added cost? Approx what should I budget for a 30 yr old?

What about MBF is that a separate thing or do you choose both?

Thanks

[nike]

http://www.nzalpa.org.nz/ContactUs/tabid/105/Default.aspx

[astinapilot]

No reply, will try and ring.

[RadioSaigon]

No reply, will try and ring.

ROFPML No surprises there! They ain't interested in GA drivers, beyond where it pushes their own agendas. The Big End of town is all that floats their boat.

[deadhead]

Hmmm. Astina gets useful information from nike at 0422 UTC. Assuming this was acted upon immediately in the form of an email, this converts to 1722 NZDT as the earliest time NZALPA could have received any information electronically. At 1828 NZDT Astina reports "no reply" (presumably to the email) and says he or she will try ringing. As a result of the non-contact, ****** Saigon (edit by deadhead) claims this is due to NZALPA not being interested.

I haven't laughed so hard in ages.

[Split Flap]

The help that I recieved from them when I was in GA was disproportionate to the fees they recieved from me or my peers.
To say they are interested only in Air NZ is bullsh!t.
They are currently working with JC and will shortly be working with PB. In the past have helped OP and Massey.
You are full of cr@p.

[astinapilot]

Deadhead, or should I say D**khead.

Do you not think I would have already emailed prior to searching for info on Pprune. Emailed a week ago.

NZALPA will be interested, no issue with them, will ring today.

Never assume.

[deadhead]

Hi astina,

Provided one openly declares that an assumption is being made, as I did, there is no problem with assuming.

I think that when I sail "email" I could have been a bit confusing. I meant the automated email that gets sent to NZALPA after you fill in the online form as provided in the link from nike, not any earlier email query you may have made. My sincerest apologies :ouch: I will take that one on the chin.

I was having a go at ****** Saigon (edit by deadhead) who knee-jerked in response, assuming without declaring said assumption that there was no response from NZALPA because they weren't interested. That was just crap.

I was most definitely NOT having a go at you.

Best of luck with your endeavours :ok:

[RadioSaigon]

moron, idiot and knee-jerk... quite a series of assumptions and characterisations you have there deadhead -and the gall to accuse me of the same! Well done. :mad: In fact, my opinions are based on lengthy (30+ years) experience of NZALPA, it's agendas and actions -and strangely are something I feel absolutely no need to detail or justify should I choose to express those opinions on a rumour network.

You may choose to like or loathe those opinions at your discretion. I don't care either way. It certainly adds to the general trend of my opinion of you, your manner and any subsequent opinions you may express when you declare yourself as openly as you have here though :ok:

[RadioSaigon]

Quite the contrary Split Flap 'full of crap' I am not. My personal experience of this organisation has been such that I post it as I see it. Twice I have been a member of NZALPA, twice I (and my co-workers) have been left swinging in the breeze by NZALPA. Once it was contract negotiations they just couldn't be bothered pursuing to any sort of resolution or conclusion, they just walked away from. That left a bad taste in the mouth. Next time I (very reluctantly) rejoined NZALPA with another airline, there was a nasty, much-publicised crash. Far from meeting the promises made in their literature, NZALPA again walked away from the 15-odd surviving NZALPA members in the organisation, again leaving us to fend for ourselves in a situation none of us had faced before and God forbid, ever do again. We all resigned NZALPA after that. I doubt any of us are currently members.

So far from being 'full of crap', 'an idiot' or 'a moron', my OPINION is based on my personal experience. Whether you like it or not, my OPINION is as valid as yours or anyone else's. Your experience of the organisation has obviously been different, upon which you base your opinion.

[deadhead]

Saigon, you've missed my point.

Of course you are entitled to have an opinion, but the following statement is not an opinion:

ROFPML No surprises there! They ain't interested in GA drivers, beyond where it pushes their own agendas. The Big End of town is all that floats their boat.

Ignoring the fact that you apparently pissed yourself, you made that statement as a matter of fact.

************* deleted by deadhead

If you are now confirming that that is an opinion, and not a claim as to fact, I will gladly take it all back.

Now that we have sorted out the difference between fact and opinion, perhaps you would like to share with us your experiences in more detail. Start another thread if need be, and call it "My experiences with NZALPA."

Let me share with you an experience I had. I got shafted, the union didn't help me or 75 of my colleagues. Did I resign from the union? No. Some of us decided to run for office, in order to turf out those incompetent buffoons that let this disgusting thing happen. Ultimately we were successful, but it took a few years.

Could be some messages there. One is: never give up (and resign). Another? The organisation should not be permanently tarred by the actions of a few incompetents. Get over it. We did.

Sorry for the thread drift. Let me try and get it back on track here.

Astina, have you had any luck? I don't know what the situation is like these days so didn't feel that confident at answering your question.

[RadioSaigon]

You made that statement as a matter of fact

Quite the contrary; given this is a Rumour network, I consider it inherent in the nature of the forum that anything posted here is an expression of individual opinion. IMO, acting on any information found here as fact is at best naive, at worst dangerous.

...perhaps you would like to share with us your experiences in more detail.

No, I wouldn't. I put these events behind me many years ago which is where they will remain. To forget the lessons learned from those events however would be criminal.

Could be some messages there. One is: never give up (and resign).

So you are advocating that I should have continued to pay a percentage of the pittance I was earning to an organisation that had twice abrogated its responsibility to me as a member??? That would merely add stupidity to financial loss. I think not.

The organisation should not be permanently tarred by the actions of a few incompetents. Get over it. We did.

I have yet to see any significant evidence that anything has changed. How do I know the incompetents are indeed gone??? Get over it? I did, long ago. As I write this I have no reason or desire to be a member again, although that may change in the future if I see significant evidence of improvement in the organisational attitude to GA drivers. I would consider myself to be remiss in my personal responsibilities if I didn't relate my experiences in this form of discussion. I do not prevent people within my influence joining the organisation if that is there desire; I do however make my personal position understood. Further I do not indulge in the petty personal attacks which you as a self-confessed office holder plainly feel necessary for those that don't share your opinion.

Lessons to be learned? I reckon so...

[deadhead]

OK. I have your input.

We will have to agree to disagree over the purposes of a network that happens to have the word "rumour" in its title. If you cast about you'll find plenty of factual statements made on these forums. We are often asked to make opinionated comment on said facts, so it isn't that unusual.

BTW, I am a former office holder, for what it's worth. Haven't been active for a few years, hence my comment that I wasn't that confident about answering astina's original query.

petty personal attacks which you as a self-confessed office holder plainly feel necessary for those that don't share your opinion.

Yes, you're right. I'm sorry about that. I will go back and delete any "petty personal attack" type of comments. I'm usually able to refrain from doing that, I have no explanation for this lapse.

What would you need to see, that would show you that, indeed, times have changed? I suspect that I am about to learn something.

[ampan]

Up to 28 Nov 1979 - Quite good.

After 28 Nov 1979 - Very poor, to very bad, to very poor, to diabolical - back to very poor.

[deadhead]

Up to November 1989: OK
1990-1998: Abysmal
1999: Better
2000-05: Very good
2005-present: adequate

ampan, are you a single-issue johnny as your post implies?

[ampan]

Yes, I'm a single-issue Johnny. But only because NZALPA have transformed one single accident (admittedly, it was a very bad one) into some sort of right of passage.

[RadioSaigon]

OK, let's move on from that point shall we?

What would you need to see, that would show you that, indeed, times have changed? I suspect that I am about to learn something.

Dunno about that -not that I suspect any lack of learning ability on your part, merely that I don't think of myself in the role of 'teacher'. Again, all I'm doing is expressing personal opinion that may or may not be a part of the overall picture, that may or may not be of value.

I would like to see a solid commitment from NZALPA, as the industry advocate, to GA -I'm deliberately not restricting that to "NZALPA GA Members" because I believe that if the organisation displays a solid commitment to improving the financial return and working conditions to GA, the GA membership will grow at a disproportional rate to the effort/money expended. That can only be good for the industry as a whole within NZ. GA drivers that feel their training, skills and qualifications are valued are far more likely to stick around, providing industry with a vastly more experienced pool of pilots in instructing and/or 'step-up' roles. That's of massive benefit to GA directly and the wider industry more indirectly, not solely through a probable reduction in crash rates which of itself would provide a better public perception of an industry suffering from an ill-informed media.

The more I think about this, the wider the issue becomes. I have no simple fixes.

When last I flew in NZ as a senior base pilot for a tourist outfit, I was working 70-80+hr weeks (duty), struggling to get days I could take off (illegal, I know), managing CAA, legislative and safety issues in my own time, at home, using my own resources at my own expense. Cosmetic maintenance on the aircraft was done by us pilots, often out of our own pockets. For that I was paid $760 in the hand a fortnight, by cheque, when the boss could be bothered coming up to see us and write the cheques. Living in a tourist destination, my rent for the same period was $500. That's only a part of the picture. I know it's not unique, or even the worst example of GA conditions.

That would be a good place for NZALPA to start, don't you think?

[Split Flap]

Well my personal experience has been good.

Lets not forget too quickly a few years ago the many hundreds of thousands that was spent defending an individual that was not from the big end of town as you put it...

GA in this country is a nest of vipers. Full of corrupt operators, CAA incompetence, old cr@p aircraft, and wages you can't feed a dog on, ALPA cant fix that dude.

[RadioSaigon]

I'm not suggesting NZALPA can 'fix' anything. Their role is as a political lobby group and industry advocates. They have the ability to bring these matters to the attention of those that do have the ability to 'fix' what's wrong, or at the very least start the process moving. Some would say they have the responsibility to do so.

[ampan]

I disagree: NZALPA can 'fix' things.

[astinapilot]

Rung ALPA and got some info. Not a GA driver BTW.


Leave you to it :)

[Split Flap]

Trying to 'fix' GA in this country would be like trying to send Neil Armstrong to the moon in a Morrie 1100. WOFTAM.

[RadioSaigon]

Your attitude may well be a part of the problem Split Flap. The rotary-wing guys seem to have their act pretty much sorted, certainly a damn sight better than the fixed wing community. To suggest that fixing the outstanding issues is a WOFTAM suggests that you believe there is no future for fixed wing GA in NZ at all. It may surprise you that many of us believe otherwise. and will be working towards achieving a betterment for all in whatever manner is within our resources, with our without the support of the industry advocates.

[Split Flap]

You are correct, I would agree with you, the rotary wing guys have their stuff in one sock. I spent a fair while in fixed wing GA and i'm sorry but I have no hope for that particular part of the industry, there is always a new blue eyed boy every five minutes ready to work for nothing. I wish the case was different but I think it's going to be a long time before anything changes in that department. I guess with rotary by the time you get on a turbine thats petty much the top of the food chain and guys won't stand for any cr@P.
I have been out of GA for a little while now and if you think that there is light at the end of the tunnel then thats cool, all I saw was a guy with a torch bringing me more work ;):)

[nike]

Rung ALPA and got some info. Not a GA driver BTW.

Classic. The boys fed in the fat on the old HQ pretty quick.




I here Dr. Ropata is making a comeback, might give PPRuNe a run for it's money. Might not.

[VH-VIN]

I've been in GA for quite a few years now and seem to be better off than most of my unhappy airline mates who have ALPA looking after them.
May be I have just had a good run working for good companys but to say GA is stuffed in this country is crap. Most guys who have a bad run I find its often self induced.
It also has a bit to do with what you make of it.

Its not all bad out there!!!