About to begin

[Integro]

Hey Guys,I'm sure a lot of people ask some very stupid questions when they first start flying but the best way to learn is to ask.I'm just about to start my lessons down in Adelaide, I was wondering if anyone on here can point me in the direction of a good school I'd much appreciate it.Also if you have any general advice on the do's and do not's in trying to find the most cost effective ways to get hours up I'm all ears.Thanks in advance to anyone that gives me some feedback :)

[rep]

Flight Training Adelaide pops straight into mind.... they have a good reputation.

Best advice would be to do all your training in one big hit, dont do it part time like I did. It will save you heeps of $$$$$ in terms of "dual check" flights etc...

And if you are thinking what I was thinking when I started: "this is gonne rock, I'm gonna fly every day and be a qantas pilot" - you will be dissapointed! it is a lot of hard work to get where you want to go - but well worth it in the end

best of luck!

[PyroTek]

rep:
You say 'part time', what *exactly* do you mean by that? (eg. how often?)
I'm doing it approx every 2nd weekend.. until school finishes of course...

[jbr76]

Best advice would be to do all your training in one big hit

Couldnt agree more ... Continuity is the most integral key in successful information retention when it comes to flight training. It is very easy to find yourself slipping off course when you have a couple of cancellations due to wx or illness.

I have been slogging away part time for a while but have bitten the bullet & taken out a loan to complete everything full time right up to ATPL, as I am fed up every time I make progression up the ladder of training then get kicked down 5 steps due to cancellations, then waiting periods due to bookings blowouts/demand.

I cant say how much happier I am that I have made that decision!

But every person each has their own personal limitations on what they can and can't do, I guess you have to sit down & really have a good think about what you really want out of it and how quickly you want to achieve it, as I can personally guarantee you that going down the part time path it will drag on and take quite a long time to complete, especially when it comes to doing expensive navex's...

Anyway thats my 2 cents worth :rolleyes:

[glenb]

No such thing as a right or wrong answer here. However, if you go down the path of borrowing money tread very carefully. First job you might earn $35000 pa if you are reasonably fortunate. Thats $700 per week. Govt gets about $200 of that, leaving you with $500. Spend $300 a week for accommodation, food, and a bit of piss with the Boys ( and i have heard that some pilots can really drink) doesnt leave you a lot of money to service the debt. Bit of a potential recipe for getting disillusioned and dropping out of the industry before you really get going.

My suggestion. Save some money, say $8000. Do your GFPT. check you really do enjoy it and then weigh up your options.

Talk to a few schools and get a feel for them. Ask how many hours they estimate for a GFPT, and a PPL. Ask politely if they would mind you having a look at some of the students logbooks. Check that the hours correlate somewhat with what they said. Look through the logbooks and see if the students have had good continuity in their training or have been bounced from instructor to instructor.

Study hard. Impress your instructor. Keep ahead with your theory.Trust me, instructors will put more into a student who studies hard, turns up on time,asks questions, learns checklists etc. That is one way of ensuring you get the best value for money.

Here is a good technique a potential student used on me that i thought was quite clever. Express a bit of interest in the school, explain that you have already bought the BAK text would they mind if you hung around the school for a couple of days while you did a bit of pre reading before committing yourself. Great way to get a bit of a feel for the place and chat to students,
see how staff and students interract, do flights seem to get away on time, are students receiving pre flight and post flight briefs.

Good luck with it all, and watch out because pilots do drink a bit of piss.

[kalavo]

Flight Training Adelaide and their little off shoot are two very different organisations. If you're not paying ridiculous amounts at the main school for a full time course, then I'd probably be less inclined to go there.

Personally, I'd go have a chat to Dave at Forsyth Aviation.

If you're down south Adelaide Biplanes are good as well, plus they have a lovely bunch of taildraggers :) (If you're not down south, it's worth going for a drive once you have your PPL for a tailwheel endorsement).

Can also highly recommend the TAFE course for the theory side - David Searle and Bev are both fantastic.

[Integro]

Thanks for all the info so far. I have a friend who is currently up in Cairns doing some Charter stuff and you've all confirmed his advice. Just a matter of going to pick the School now. I'm moving down from Brissy in about 2-3 weeks so I'll go meet the CFI's then.

One other big thing that I'm really stuck with. I have worked my bum off and have put myself in a position to be able to pay to do it all in one hit however my friend (CWC) has mentioned about trying to pay up front and getting a better deal than paying per lesson. He's in two minds about which is better so I have no idea. Has anyone here done anything like that and did it work out to save you much money?

[DUXNUTZ]

Will second that. At the school i went to, we all paid up front and guess who was always waiting for aircraft and generally screwed in the scheduling? Yep US. Also what happens if the instruction goes down the proverbial cos your instructor gets a better gig? You've given them the dosh so they have you.

YOu'd think you'd be able to get some good interest in the meantime. Hold on to the cash. Been there and wish i'd done that!

[Islander Jock]

Good advice here. Do not pay up front! No matter how good the school looks, how long it has been in business or what other people might say. There is ALWAYS the possibility of them going under overnight and your cash being lumped into the pot to pay creditors.

Rep,
PPL and even CPL can be done part time and done well. I have seen many pilots do it this way over the last 10 years. IREX and IR on the other hand does require a more concentrated effort but you can over do it also. I completed IFR in three weeks including some days that had a sim and flight on the same day and they were real killers. The danger being that you find yourself getting a little burned out right at the time you should be getting ready for flight test.

[PlankBlender]

Mate, never ever ever ever pay up front. I have never seen a deal where the money saved outweighed the risk of loosing it all!! Search through the forum about school closures, you will find there are a lot of people around who lost all or most of their hard earned and will probably never follow through with their dream as a result. :sad:

Financially, it makes no sense in any case! Try this: Is any training organisation going to give you more than 7.5%p.a. discount, which is what you get at close to zero risk by putting the money into a savings account, and taking out chunks as you go along? Check this out: http://www.bankaccount4u.com.au/?gclid=CIj3xZrol5ICFSRJYAodCCMiUw

As per part time/full time, I have done both, my PPL six days a week two flights a day in less than three months, and a few years later my CPL/MECIR flying once or twice a week. The main difference is that in the full time full on version, if you then have a break afterwards (to make more money, find a job, etc.), you will loose a lot of skill and knowledge quickly, because the learning was so full on and you didn't give your brain time for the new stuff to sink in, so to say.

With the part time version, I find (and this may be different from person to person of course as we all learn differently) that I get time between lessons to process what I've learned, to go over it theoretically (chair or head flying makes a real difference!), read up on the relevant theory, etc. By the time the next lesson comes around, I am better prepared that I would have been had I just climed out of the plane a few hours before. I find this weighs up anything you loose within a few days..
Now, big breaks are a different thing, I had to pause training a few times for a few months each, and that will set you back an hour or two (max).

I would say that part time or full time is not a major decision, it will usually be dictated by your circumstances. More important is to seek out and find a good school with quality instructors who will make the experience a good one!

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

1) Pay as you go.

2) Do it full time.

3) Try to fly as much as possible with one only, senior instructor.

If you really go at it you can knock a PPL off in 18 days of flying!

Dr :8

[PyroTek]

An expensive 18 days!

[Integro]

I think it's going to be an expensive year. To answer why I'm moving to Adelaide from Brisbane. My family are all down there and so my wife and I are going to live in the back of my Mum's house to save money while I blow $50k getting my licence and hours up :). I was also told that Adelaide has much better weather for flying?!

Thanks for the advice regarding up front payment. You'd think they'd look after the guys that are commited to them but it seems that the flight schools don't role like that.

I'm going to be trying to knock it all over as quickly as I can so it will be somewhat full time. Some good points raised about not flying too much as you might be tired and therefore not flying as well as you could thus costing more money.

Would you guys leave it up to the School to set your training program or try and chat with some guys who have been there and set things up my own way. A mate of mine said a lot of schools will try and get you to do things the long way round to make more money....

[Islander Jock]

You cannot set things up "your way". The school will be required to teach in accordance with the competencies listed in the Day VFR syllabus and their approved ops manual.
One trap that some people let themselves fall for is repeating lessons when they get shoved between instructors and the continuity is lost. So be wary if your log book starts to have a number of the same entries for "effects of controls", "straight and level", "climbing and descending"
Sure there are things you can do to keep costs down but in the end, you have to meet the requirements. One thing I would suggest avoiding is a GFPT. It is nothing more than a passenger carrying privilege on a student licence. You will be required to do a flight test for it and you don't need it if you are only out doing solo. Some schools might insist on you doing the GFPT. This could be one of the "long way round to make more money" situations you referred to.

[notmyC150v2]

I Jock I didn't think you had a choice but to do the GFPT???. Every school I have looked at makes it a basic requirement.

[Integro]

Thanks Jock. It sucks but at the same time I understand. They are out to make as much money as they can, they are in business just like every one else.

People seem to talk so much about trying to get the same instructor the whole way through but how can I increase the chances of this happening (unless I get the guy that owns the business to teach me)?

[cessna_dave]

I began flying once every week or two at first because of school. I have never had to repeat a lesson. After I left school I had a whole lot more time for flying so I was flying nearly every day to work up hours for the cpl. This kind of progression worked fine for me.

[cessna_dave]

How far along are you now? Do most guys have a job lined up before they finish their CPL?


Recently aquired the cpl and nvfr. Hopefully going into the QF cadets program pending a flight test. They send us to adelaide so may see you there!:ok:

[jbr76]

1) Pay as you go.

2) Do it full time.

3) Try to fly as much as possible with one only, senior instructor.



:D couldnt have said it better myself.

An expensive 18 days!

Pyrotek, Flying is expensive either way you go, you end up paying the same amount at the end whether you choose to do it in a short space of time like that, or spreading it out over 10-12months ... the figure you get at the end is exactly the same.

As was said earlier in this thread, it all depends on how quickly you want to progress through your training and obviously your personal circumstances (eg finances)

For me, going from PAYG part time flying to PAYG full time flying will mean instead of spending years plodding along at the part time pace trying to complete the end of my PPL/CPL/MECIR, I can now knock it all over in a matter of 7 months or less. :E

If I was to continue on flying part time, christ knows how long it would have taken me to complete it. :ugh: :{ :*

FTDK is spot on the money above ... :ok:

[Islander Jock]

notmyC150v2,
It may be written into a flying school's Ops Manual but the GFPT should only be taken if requested by the student. I will be a bit hypocritical here and say it is a waste of time even though I did it myself back in 95. All it allowed me to do was take mates up within the training area for a bit of a jolly. Still under supervision of an instructor and with the recency checking requirements. Another consideration with it is, some students tend to fly around on the GFPT for a while and burn up their cash that could otherwise be put towards navs and completing their PPL.

Integro,
Sure business is business but not every school is out to rip off it's students. You can turn over just as much of the students dollars by making sure they are getting the best value from their training rather than enforcing unnecessary elements upon them.

[Integro]

Hey Islander, thanks for the insight. Just a matter of finding the school that's not going to try and rip me off.