Hail and farewell HMS Exeter

[Navaleye]

The sharpshooter of the Falklands Campaign. Two A4s at 250ft at 19 miles, 1 Learjet at 41,000 ft, 1 Canberra at 38,000 ft. Farewell old girl, you did us proud.

Leaving gib for the last time. (http://navalphotos.fotopic.net/p49002000.html)

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

In 1980, from my office window, I watched her berth in Portsmouth for the first time. I remember thinking how out of place her pretty blue boot toppings looked. The things we do to test new paints. The first time I'd seen a 1022 aerial: reminded me of the big Marconi 264 Head at Manch.

Since then, she's earned 2 proud Battle Honours.

[parabellum]

Do such ships get scrapped or sold on to lesser Navies?

[Navaleye]

No other Navy uses the Sea Dart system, so most likely she'll be "recycled" or used in a Sinkex. The T42s have done sterling service but they are now totally obsolete and should have been replaced years ago.

[airborne_artist]

Two A4s at 250ft at 19 miles, 1 Learjet at 41,000 ft, 1 Canberra at 38,000 ft.

Remind me how many aircraft were shot down by the RAF during Op Corporate :E

[Wader2]

parabellum, I think the RAN, Brazilian, Chillean and Argentinian, amongst others, might object to your description :)

The short answer is yes, and they are often refurbished to customer requirements too. The MOD UK has a disposal sales organisation that offers up all manner of surplus, much not surplus, for sale. I know that the landing craft from Fearless or Intrepid were sold to the Egyptians for instance.

Of course many are not bought.

[Maple 01]

Remind me how many aircraft were shot down by the RAF during Op Corporate

Er, quite a few - or was that a Waaaaaaah?

[Widger]

Even if it were a Whaaaahhh, it deserves to be corrected. I think Flt Lt Dave Morgan 4 Kills (RAF at the time) and Sqn Ldr Bob Iveson (Super Mario) did their bit!

Edited to include:The pilots who took part in Operation Corporate were: Wg Cdr Peter Squire (OC), Sqn Ldrs Bob Iveson, Peter Harris and Jeffrey Pook, Flt Lts Mike Beech, Ross Boyens, Nick Gilchrist, Jeff Glover, Mark Hare, Tony Harper, Murdo MacLeod, and John Rochfort All who flew from Hermes.

[Strictly Jungly]

I was fortunate to witness the EXETER despatching the Canberra. It took two attempts as the first attempt resulted in the surrounding hillside being the target.

Very impressive and a fine ship to boot.

SJ

[exscribbler]

AA: Remind me how the RAF got there in the first place...:E

[Sunk at Narvik]

Stop starting you lot! ;)

[Tommy Tipee]

The book "Air War South Atlantic" by Jeffrey Ethell and Alfred Price lists the following:

Air to Air

1 May Mirage FLt Lt Barton
1 May Dagger Flt Lt Penfold
21 May Skyhawk Flt Lt Leeming
23 May Puma Flt Lt Morgan
8 June Skyhawkx2 Flt Lt Morgan


Air to Ground

21 May Chinook Flt Lt Hare
21 May Puma Flt Lt Hare
21 May Puma Flt Lt Hare and Sqn Ldr Pook
23 May Augusta109 Flt Lt Morgan and Flt Lt Leeming
23 May Puma Flt Lt Morgan
26 May Puma Sqn Ldr Pook

[snapper41]

Do such ships get scrapped or soled on to lesser Navies?

I think only shoes get soled:rolleyes:

[WE Branch Fanatic]

That's a bit confusing Tommy. The air to air kills were achieved by RAF pilots serving in RN Sea Harrier units, but the air to ground ones were a mix of Sea Harrier and Harrier GR3. Doesn't the phrase "shot down" indicate a flying target?

Sorry for this pedantic moment.

Anyway, The possible early mothballing of Exeter and Southampton has been mentioned elsewhere on the net, such as here (http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/5700/t/Early-Farewell-to-Southampton-and-Exeter.html) or on ARRSE (http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=91802.html). So now we will be down to six destroyers - which sort of answers the question I asked here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3948843#post3948843) regarding the 7th and 8th Type 45s.

A link to the Sea Jet thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98152) seems apt. Our layered defence isn't looking so impressive now.

However, it would now appear that reports of the demise of Exeter and Southampton were premature. Both are due to be decommisioned next year however.

Are the Type 45s being brought into service at the same rate as the Type 42s leave service?

[spheroid]

Are the Type 45s being brought into service at the same rate as the Type 42s leave service?

No. And nor should they.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

An interesting mix of correct fact and even more interesting opinion. Let me guess; something to do with sand and wiley oriental gentlemen?

[Engines]

Have resisted this one as long as I can but here goes...

There were no 'RAF air to air kills' in the Falklands. All air to air kills were carried out by Royal Navy aircraft flying, under Royal Navy control, to Royal Navy rules, and so on. RAF aircrew (under RN command) made a significant and valuable contribution, as correctly recorded.

Now, if one DOES want to open up this can of worms, let's go back to the Battle of Britain, and start reminding people of the contribution by FAA pilots, Czechs, Poles, and so on. No? And with good reason. The Battle of Britain was an amazing and vital victory by the RAF. Full stop. The Falklands Air War was an amazing and vital victory for the FAA. Full stop.

Move on....

[Zoom]

Doesn't the phrase "shot down" indicate a flying target?

Quite so. Things in the air get shot down. Things on the ground get shot up. Obvious, innit?

[Always a Sapper]

Remind me how the RAF got there in the first place...

err.... By a combination of good engineering by the ground crews prepping the planes, outstanding flying and brilliant navigation by the crews, a wee bit of luck and a whole pile of good old 'get the job done' .... :D


Oh and one hell of an AAR plan..... :ok: and then the fleet turned up...... ;)

[D O Guerrero]

"err.... By a combination of good engineering by the ground crews prepping the planes, outstanding flying and brilliant navigation by the crews, a wee bit of luck and a whole pile of good old 'get the job done' ...."

So nothing to do with ships then? Glad we've got it cleared up....

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

It's good to see you chaps have totally grasped the concepts of Joint Operations. :ok:

[glad rag]

Amazing how a thread can morph so much.

A proud old ship (and her crews from over the years) now tarred by the bleeding WAFU, once again bleeting on about the "seajet" :suspect:

[exscribbler]

The Mighty X is indeed a proud old ship - just look at the photos in this month's Warship World to see her leaving Gib at 25 knots! IMHO the WAFUs aren't bleating about the SHAR - they're trying to point out the error of the ways of the MoD in scrapping it so early. And anyway, WAFUs never bleat about anything.

BTW, I was talking to a Scottish guy on the Gare du Midi in Brussels last Monday (a long story) and he tried to tell me the Tornado is to be navalised for the one new RN carrier, He also said two carriers will be built but one will go to the French.

Comments, anyone?

[glad rag]

"I was talking to a Scottish guy on the Gare du Midi in Brussels last Monday"

I can definitely deny that one for sure!! :}

[fake wafu]

I nearly choked on my near-beer when I read that the Tornado might be navalised after all these years. I hope they beef the hook up.....

[blue monday]

I nearly choked on my near-beer when I read that the Tornado might be navalised after all these years. I hope they beef the hook up.....

The German Navy flew them of carriers so it has already been navalised.

[exscribbler]

Said Jock also seemed convinced that only 4 T45s will be built; if so we can forget Defender and Duncan. If they're cancelled, that's jobs lost in Scotland - but then the money has to be found for today's backtrack on the 10p tax rate. :ugh:

I couldn't believe a navalised Typhoon, either. Mind you, I sometimes find it difficult to believe a land-based one.

How many carriers has the Bundesmarine? :E

Having lit the blue touch paper...

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Royal Navy ships at sea with no guided missiles on board (http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/Royal-Navy-ships-at-sea.4162308.jp?articlepage=2)

Two Royal Navy destroyers could not fire their missiles if they came under attack – because they have been removed to save cash.

The News can reveal that Portsmouth-based Type 42s HMS Exeter and HMS Southampton have been working without their Sea Dart guided-missile system since Christmas. To go with the cutbacks, at least half a dozen operating crew have been transferred to other ships.

I believe similar issues also exist with other ships. :mad:

[scarecrow450]

"The German Navy flew them of carriers so it has already been navalised"

Really ??? that must have been the carriers called GNAS Schleswig and
GNAS Eggebeck !!

The German Navy Tornado's that I worked with at TTTE must have been
the first sleath navy Tornado's as they looked just like normal Tornadoo's !! :mad::mad:

[dunc0936]

Said Jock also seemed convinced that only 4 T45s will be built; if so we can forget Defender and Duncan. If they're cancelled, that's jobs lost in Scotland - but then the money has to be found for today's backtrack on the 10p tax rate.

They have to build those two ships, I have always wanted something worthy being named after me lol

Duncan

[spheroid]

Two Royal Navy destroyers could not fire their missiles if they came under attack – because they have been removed to save cash.

The News can reveal that Portsmouth-based Type 42s HMS Exeter and HMS Southampton have been working without their Sea Dart guided-missile system since Christmas. To go with the cutbacks, at least half a dozen operating crew have been transferred to other ships.

I believe similar issues also exist with other ships. :mad:

What a fantastic "non" story. How about another headline....

RAF JET FLIES WITHOUT WEAPONS

SOLDIERS CARRY ARMS WITHOUT AMMO

Its not news that we are short of weapons or money.....

[Rob_1707]

Doesn't seem to be out of service.

Link.
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.12968

Same goes for HMS Southampton.

Link.
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.12883

[dunc0936]

Just for my own interest, how much would one of these cost if sold??

Duncan

[D O Guerrero]

Spheroid - your examples are not quite the same thing...
Seems to me that your argument could extend to deploying SSBNs without Trident - it would be easy to get some out to the boat if they were really needed surely?:ugh:
The whole point of having a Navy is that is can remain on station for long periods... which is why Ships generally deploy with stores that are suitable for the unexpected. I guess the significant part of the fleet that sailed from Gib for Op Corporate were fairly thankful that they were fully armed beforehand. Returning to the UK would have been slightly inconvenient...

[XV277]

The sharpshooter of the Falklands Campaign. Two A4s at 250ft at 19 miles, 1 Learjet at 41,000 ft, 1 Canberra at 38,000 ft. Farewell old girl, you did us proud.


Certain HMS Cardiff personel would dispute the Canberra claim!!

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=67322

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1080522&postcount=20

[Magic Mushroom]

The blue on blue by Cardiff was Gazelle XV377 iirc, shot down in the early hours of 6 Jun 82 with the loss of its crew. RIP.

[scarecrow450]

"Gazelle XV377"

XX377 perhaps ?

[HalloweenJack]

unless they`re in the habit of `shooting down` a SR.N5 Warden (XV377) then you might well be correct..... ;)

[Lurking123]

Widger, you seem to have neglected to mention the SH chaps. I'm pretty sure the BN crew took part in Corporate.

[spheroid]

Spheroid - your examples are not quite the same thing...
Seems to me that your argument could extend to deploying SSBNs without Trident - it would be easy to get some out to the boat if they were really needed surely?:ugh:
The whole point of having a Navy is that is can remain on station for long periods... which is why Ships generally deploy with stores that are suitable for the unexpected. I guess the significant part of the fleet that sailed from Gib for Op Corporate were fairly thankful that they were fully armed beforehand. Returning to the UK would have been slightly inconvenient

2 Points.... Firstly, the ships taking part in Springtrain had already expended weapons during the exercise and therefore were not fully armed prior to being dispatched south. BUt that isn't a problem because thats what RFAs are for ...

Secondly....how long was resolution in service patrollomg the ice before it had poseidon fitted ????

[XV277]

Secondly....how long was resolution in service patrollomg the ice before it had poseidon fitted ????

Umm, all of her career?

[Double Zero]

Further to previous posts, I'd reckon Sea Darts could be transferred from an RFA, but fitting Tridents at sea ??!

If no other navy uses Sea Dart, what do the Argentinians ( I know I've read recently one of their two Type 42's is in poor condition & refit ) and other recipient navies use then ?

BTW HMS Southampton sailed past me twice in the Solent this last Thursday, possibly using the measured mile for calibration of some kind; I guessed at the time she's not got long to serve, as she hasn't been given a 'Chrighton' gun.

[diginagain]

as she hasn't been given a 'Chrighton' gun.

This?

Kryten Gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4.5_inch_(114_mm)_Mark_8_naval_gun)

[chris_tivver]

It's good to see you chaps have totally grasped the concepts of Joint Operations. :ok:


Absolutely. All this bickering about whether the RAF or RN deserve the credit on an amazing joint op








Everyone knows its the infantry who did the really hard work ;)

[moggiee]

Everyone knows its the infantry who did the really hard work ;)
There's nothing big and clever about getting cold and wet and having to sleep in puddles!

[Double Zero]

Quote; " there's nothing big or clever about sleeping in puddles " -

No, just bloody brave & tough - how were the officer's ( Army & RAF, Navy too if within range ) mess's going on at the time, not too low on Gin I hope...

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Exeter was decommisioned (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-events/rn-live/all-news/last-surviving-falklands/*/changeNav/6568) today. Southampton was decommisioned (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operations-and-support/surface-fleet/type-42-destroyers/news/hms-southampton-bows-out/*/changeNav/6568) in February.

This Navy News story (http://www.navynews.co.uk/view-story.aspx?articleID=416) from April demonstrates links to the previous Exeter.

A WHITE Ensign which ‘flew’ on the wreck of HMS Exeter will find peace in the surroundings of the namesake city’s cathedral.

Veterans of the wartime cruiser were invited aboard the present-day destroyer for a final time – the current ship is decommissioning – to receive the treasured flag.

The heavy cruiser took her place along the lions of Royal Navy history thanks to her crucial role in the Battle of the River Plate in 1939.

She survived the heavy damage she suffered that day at the hands of the ‘pocket battleship’ Graf Spee, but was not so fortunate two and a half years later in the Java Sea.

Mortally wounded by Japanese attack, the cruiser was scuttled by her crew. Most of her ship’s company survived the ordeal, but then faced more than three years in Japanese Prisoner of War camps, where they suffered starvation, disease, and brutality.

More than six decades later, their numbers are few, but eight survivors of the Java Sea battle – Bill Francis, Admiral J P K Harkness, Steve Cairns, Joe Asher, Johnny King, Jimmy Hegney, Admiral Sir Peter Anson and Bill Guy – made the pilgrimage to Portsmouth, where they were hosted both by Exeter and her slightly younger sister HMS Nottingham.

The latter treated the eight veterans to lunch in the wardroom as well as the obligatory photographs for the albums.

The wreck of the heavy cruiser was located by divers after a protracted search of the Java Sea.

She lies around 200ft below far from the site her CO, Capt Oliver Gordon, reported more than six decades ago, and close to the last resting place of her escort, HMS Encounter.

The divers initially attached an ensign to the port torpedo tube as mark of respect.

It has since been recovered and was presented to Exeter veteran Stoker 1st Class Bill Francis, on behalf of his shipmates on the eve of their annual reunion. The ensign will go on display in a wing of Exeter Cathedral which is dedicated to the ship and her men.

As for the current Exeter, she formally leaves the ranks of the RN on May 27 with a decommissioning ceremony in Portsmouth Naval Base.

Anyone connected with the Falklands veteran who wishes to attend the event should contact the decommissioning officer on [email protected] or call 02392 722466.

I believe that Exeter cathedral already holds the battle scarred Battle Ensign flown during the Battle of the River Plate.

Janes is reporting that Pakistan may be interested in buying some old Type 42s - see here (http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jni/jni090527_1_n.shtml). Oh well, we need all the exports we can get!

[WE Branch Fanatic]

HMS Nottingham was due to decommission this week (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operations-and-support/surface-fleet/type-42-destroyers/hms-nottingham/news/hms-nottingham-bows-out/*/changeNav/6568).

So now we are down to just five ships with Sea Dart, Sea Viper on the T45 still not working, and no organic air defence for many years.

[vecvechookattack]

The 5 left being HMS Manchester, HMS Liverpool, HMS Gloucester, HMS York and HMS Edinburgh.

Of those 5 how many have Sea Dart fitted ?

[GANNET FAN]

My father was with Exeter when she was sunk at the Battle of the Java sea (and spent 3 years as a POW with the Japanese) and was invited to the christening of the present Exeter.

How sad he and other old Exeter hands would be at this news.

GF

[bast0n]

Double Zero

No, just bloody brave & tough - how were the officer's ( Army & RAF, Navy too if within range ) mess's going on at the time, not too low on Gin I hope...

I wholeheartedly agree with you - it is always the PBI that clean up the mess, and a magnificent job they did down south. Of course not without the support of others.

Your remark about gin brought back a memory - I was having a medicinal large rum just before we were sunk..................:ok:

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

I wholeheartedly agree with you - it is always the PBI that clean up the mess

I’m always amazed at how they swam home from Dunkirk in ’40. :D

[bast0n]

GBZ

I wholeheartedly agree with you - it is always the PBI that clean up the mess, and a magnificent job they did down south. Of course not without the support of others.

Try and keep up.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Oh, I see. I thought that the "not without the support of others" related to the "magnificent job they did down south" bit. All is clear now. :ok:

[bast0n]

GBZ

GBZ is the collection of letters on the country plate on cars from Gibraltar.

Any connection? :)

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Delayed action: none at all.

I went to Gibraltar once. It rained all day.

[Navaleye]

Spending 9 days in Gib over Easter. Recommended drinking pits appreciated! :ouch:

[Navaleye]

You seem to forget that Exeter was an anti-aircraft destroyer and a very good one. If you need further clarification on the relevance of the topic, feel free to jump in.:uhoh: