TA to expel soldiers who won’t go to war

[FormerFlake]

Probably more to this that meets the eye.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3559757.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3559757.ece)

[Al R]

"The Ministry of Defence (MoD) wants to get rid of what it sees as weekend warriors happy to wear the uniform but unwilling to fight, a Whitehall source said."

What.. in the TA? :eek:

[RAFEmployee]

That's excellent news to be honest, it means they're starting to find out where all the money is going and doing something about it.

[serf]

Does the RAF have reservists, aircrew/groundcrew, who dont deploy?

[Spotting Bad Guys]

One of my SNCOs has had his deployment location changed to a more hostile area than originally planned as the deskie has been forced to find a place for a Reservist who can't shoot well enough to deploy somewhere you need to carry weapons routinely. I kid you not.....

Whilst the Reservists and their support is very welcome, it grates to have had to tell my SNCO the reason for the change.

SBG

[rmac]

I have commanded both TA and regular troops/airmen

Many of my TA troops were very committed, and in many cases excluded from regular service due to irregularities during their teenage years in some fairly negative environments, but just as committed.

Read some of the comments in the Times. The government wants them, but will not mobilise them, leaving the burden of negotiation with employers etc in the soldiers hands. To be honest this is just taking the p1ss a little. Want them - mobilise them - basta !!

I would implore the politicos, stop ****1ing these people around. They are volunteers, show them the same faith that they show you.

SBG, do you realise how ridiculous you sound. Poor diddums regular gets a little more shot at because the part timer will not take his place - total bollox, your regular should be ashamed of himself if he is really harbouring those thoughts.

Reality check ......GO

[cargosales]

SBG, do you realise how ridiculous you sound. Poor diddums regular gets a little more shot at because the part timer will not take his place - total bollox, your regular should be ashamed of himself if he is really harbouring those thoughts.


rmac

I don't think SBG actually said that, although his whinging tone suggests he does indeed require a reality check. The reservist in question has an apparantly proven inability to shoot straight so it more a case of "cannot take his place" rather than "will not take his place". [Would you want someone who cannot shoot straight alongside you in a combat situation?]

Whilst this raises questions about the standards required of reservists generally, it also highlights the very real need for people on the ground in nasty places to be able to do things (e.g. shoot at people) which may be outside the scope of their everyday trade (e.g. fix airframes).

If the reservist in question is say, RAF Regiment, then it is fair to raise questions about why he is doing that job. If he is say a techie or bluntie then I'm not so sure that it's fair on the bloke to have a pop about his inability to fire a weapon accurately.

Just my 2p worth

CS

[Arclite01]

To be honest even when I was serving back in the late 1980's we used to discuss the issues around mobilisation of the TA in all sorts of scenarios.

The one thing that came out was - if the threat was direct to me, or even mainland UK we'd probably end up with a less than 60% turn out from my unit. Of those only 30% would be fully trained soldiers .

The remainder were honest and said they felt they would be of 'limited use' to a regular unit in a re-inforcement situation.

Most of my TA soldiers (we were infantry) openly admitted that if the AB592 (remember those ?) ever dropped on the mat, they would not turn up.

Personally I am more in favour of regular reservists, specialist TA soldiers (like CVHQ) where civillian skills can be directly transferred - vehicle mechs etc) and keep the rest of the TA as home defence (like the old HSF concept).

Not that I want to stop people volunteering for dets - but lets keep it real about capability and commitment levels.

and that's my 2p worth..................

Arc

and I still think our troops are doing a fantastic job under appalling conditions without all the kit they should have, and with pathetic political back up.:ok:

[BEagle]

The Ministry of Definance's over-reliance on the so-called 'total force concept', involving a penny-pinching approach to regular force strengths and an overly optimistic reliance upon reserve forces, is beginning to show itself for the utter crock it truly is.

TA and RAuxAF units are one thing, but expecting RAFResA and RAFResO personnel to support a 5 year farce of Bliar's making is way outside the scope of the commitment to be reasonably expected from such RAFRes personnel.

Many of whom don't actually realise that they have a reserve commitment! They left under PVR terms and probably have little idea that an envelope inviting them to play could drop through the post box at any time. That is, if the MoD can find them! RAFRes personnel are supposed to keep PMA (or whatever it's now called) informed of their addresses - but if the MoD moves its units (e.g. Binnsworth to High Wycombe), do they tell all the reservists the new contact address........:rolleyes:? Do they heck!

I'm surprised they haven't tried calling out the ATC and CCF yet...:*

[Beatriz Fontana]

A mate of mine flirted with the idea of joining the RAuxAF. She was told from day one that once the training was complete she'd be expected to deploy.

Surprisingly frank admission if you ask me.

[BEagle]

Most RAFRes reservists called out for GW2 were in those trades which had been over-civilianised in the first place.

They were expected to back-fill domestic posts, to allow their regular colleagues to deploy.

Whereas the RAuxAF were expected to deploy.

But it was never thought that Bliar's adventurism would still be going on some 5 years later, nor that such reliance on reserve forces would still be needed.

[Squirrel 41]

Good, at face value this is excellent news for the increasing professionalism of the reserve forces. This isn't CCF for Adults!

S41

[richatom]

How does the MOD compensate TA soldiers these days for loss of income from their regular jobs if deployed? There is no correlation between a TA soldier's army pay and his civvy pay - so a TA soldier may not necessarily be able to pay his mortgage and other ongoing commitments etc on his deployment pay. I imagine this would be a big impediment to many deploying.

[Al R]

As a matter if interest, is there any X Factor for TA? I was thinking not so much in terms of having their wages paid, but more what they're going to lose in the future with their 'real' jobs due to not being promoted, due to spending so much time with the MoD instead of counting paperclips or driving trucks, or whatever it is they were doing in civvy street?

[FrogPrince]

I don't have much of a singing voice....

The MoD is required to make up the shortfall up to a ceiling - GBP 548 a day or thereabouts for mortals like me - and GBP 700 ish for the demi-gods in Harley Street. RTMC at Chilwell takes all your circumstances into account, mortgage, pension contributions included. Mind you, if you are self-employed rather than salaried the RAO does require audited accounts, statements from current clients etc.

This left the MoD paying me more than the general in charge of RC(S) last Spring, which shows just how cock-eyed our military world has become nowadays. (Then again, the AAC invited me on the all-expenses paid vacation, I didn't ask them.:hmm:)

There is no X factor, though. It would be far too amorphous to calculate.

[Al R]

Cheers.


Al.

[airborne_artist]

The HMG and the MoD has never really got the hang of the TA, IMHO. I joined in 1980, and 18 months later there was a problem on Op Corporate. The solution was only to be found in a TA unit, but with 160,000 in the regular Army, no-one had the political bottle to admit the fact, and then mobilise the forty-odd guys who had the kit and the skills. I know for a fact that the suggestion was turned down by the war cabinet.

The more recent experience of TA lads who have been sandy-side is that there is no proper infrastructure to support their families while they are away, and even less to support them on their return. Some of those who have come back wounded have been really badly let down, as have some who despite the law, have lost their jobs or been very badly treated by their employers.

I had a great time in the TA, and I was very prepared to be mobilised in the event of Ivan preparing to cross the IGB, but I'd advise against joining now.

[SilsoeSid]

Is this going to mean the end of the AAC TA Pilot?

http://www.army.mod.uk/aac/territorial_army/recruiting.htm

[gar170]

How does the MOD compensate TA soldiers these days for loss of income from their regular jobs if deployed? There is no correlation between a TA soldier's army pay and his civvy pay - so a TA soldier may not necessarily be able to pay his mortgage and other ongoing commitments etc on his deployment pay. I imagine this would be a big impediment to many deploying.

The way it works on mobilisation you turn up with 3 yrs P as prove of income they then take the average add what you would earn as a reserve this is your yearly income then deduct what a regular earns this gives the difference then divide 365 this gives you the daily difference from civvie to reg. there is a cap in respect of rank.
I don't know what it is now but it used to be around SAC £32.000 i think for a SAC so if you earned more than that they would not call you up.

As a matter if interest, is there any X Factor for TA? I was thinking not so much in terms of having their wages paid, but more what they're going to lose in the future with their 'real' jobs due to not being promoted, due to spending so much time with the Mod instead of counting paperclips or driving trucks, or whatever it is they were doing in civvy street?

There is none it is mostly down to the good will of the employers.
What used to be the biggest problem was if you had a company pension some times you had to find the contributions your self to keep the pension up to date or it was frozen for the period you were away.

[topgas]

At the moment, only TA members who have indicated a willingness to be mobilised are being called up, unlike on Telic 1, when quite a few got a bit of a shock. In my particular specialty, the person resposible for filling the slots rings up about a year in advance to ask if you can go - my feeling is that saying no is not really an option unless you have a good reason, (perhaps that's why I've just got back from my third tour since 2003) but negotiation on dates is possible. Unfortunately the current policy on appeals seems to bew to not oppose any employer appeal unless it is in one of the really short CEGs. My unit has been warned off for next year - not the entire unit is required and not everyone who volunteers will get to go.
TA do in fact get X Factor - it is set at 5% rather than 13% (just gone up to 14%?) for regulars, but it is based on a lower salary scale, and AFPRB declined to increase it in their review this year, despite increased turmoil, etc.
RTMC/HMS Nelson/RAuxAF will make a Reservist's Award to a total maximum of £548 daily rate for most groups on evidence of civilian and reserve pay, and this is now irrespective of the mobilised rank.
The majority of reservists come back from deployments having benefited from the experience and with a sense of achievement- I certainly did, but then I was being chauffered around by Padders and his mates in a dedicated cab:O Thanks, guys

[serf]

Silsoe, that is highly likely.

[Pops556]

If the reservist in question is say, RAF Regiment, then it is fair to raise questions about why he is doing that job. If he is say a techie or bluntie then I'm not so sure that it's fair on the bloke to have a pop about his inability to fire a weapon accurately.

Interesting issues about an inability to shoot straight....
On EIRT a few uears ago we had someone who couldn't (or wouldn't???) manage a grouping using a SUSAT, yet I (and everybody else (without boasting, I hasten to add) were getting good groupings at 100/200/300m on iron sights (or SUSAT where issued).

It is not hard to hit a target on a properly zero'd weapon...

[airborne_artist]

Silsoe - it's possible, but if the case can be made that de-mobbing a TA pilot will mean that a regular pilot can not be deployed, then the TA pilot post(s) may stay. The case is an unusual one.

[8-15fromOdium]

Slightly off topic, but - is there any mileage in requiring MOD Civil Servants to have a reserve force commitment as part of their conditions of employment?

A critisism of the CS on many of these threads is for their lack of military knowledge/experience, a bit of TA service may help overcome this. I know some CS do serve in the TA, and in my experience they tend to be pretty good eggs.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Always been under the impression it was soldier first, *preferred trade* second (in relation to not being deployed because of lack of skill at arms).

[JessTheDog]

TA and RAuxAF units are one thing, but expecting RAFResA and RAFResO personnel to support a 5 year farce of Bliar's making is way outside the scope of the commitment to be reasonably expected from such RAFRes personnel.

Hang on a minute, where does this RAFResO idea come in?!? There is no way on Earth that I will have anything to do with current or future wars planned by this mendacious government that lies for the reason for war, conducts wars in the most inept manner possible, and consistently refuses to pay more than lip service notice to duty of care and the military covenant! Any brown envelope landing on my doorstep will be sent to Des Browne with graphic instructions on what to do with it.

PMA have my current address but will not get it if I move in future in case they lose it on a database. In the event of a "real" war then I will know where to turn up...probably!:}

I did 3 years TA, 1 year RAuxAF and 7 years RAF. The war role of my TA unit (which has been amalgamated at least twice, lost at least two soldiers in Iraq that I know of and won praise and probably some gallantry awards) at the time was rear area defence, and the RAuxAF was supporting JMCs (now force protection, probably with personnel in both theatres).

I observed at the time that Bn exercises usually generated a Coy, planned Coy exes usually generated a Plt etc. There was a distribution of the very committed, the moderately committed and the uncommitted who viewed it as a drinking club (kept on to keep numbers up), probably a standard bell curve. There will always be a proportion that are less keen on deploying, and it may seem counter-intuitive, but these formed an organisational dynamic (particularly for training) that supported the smaller proportion who were keen as mustard. The MoD cannot plan for 100% mobilisation of reservists, it will never happen. Shift the goalposts by all means, introduce further carrots and sticks, weed out the complete wastes-of-space, but if you prune too far the whole thing will collapse.

[Training Risky]

SBG, do you realise how ridiculous you sound. Poor diddums regular gets a little more shot at because the part timer will not take his place - total bollox, your regular should be ashamed of himself if he is really harbouring those thoughts.

Reality check ......GO

You're the one talking bolleaux. Have you served recently when not in Slovakia? Why would you retain a reservist who IS BEING PAID when he can't even put the effort into passing a simple marksmanship test? Why keep him if he can't deploy? (and don't call Qatar a deployment, it's the chuffing RAF Butlins of the Middle East.)

The same argument applies to physical fitness - if the reservist is a fat knacker who likes to go to drill nights but can't deploy: train him, warn him, train him some more, assess him, get rid! (Just like a regular).

[NURSE]

Maybe TA and other reserves would be happier to deploy if

1. they had proper training not the 28 days a year to cram in what their regualr counter part does over 365

2. Their civilian careers were PROPERLY protected whilst they deployed. And if they loose their jobs following deployment the Mod will Prosecute the employer and pay the reservist until they find another job.

Personally I beleive it should be made a criminal offence for an employer to dismiss a reservist who is mobilised. with a minimum sentence 5 years for the personel manager and 5 years for the manager who decide this.

BTW reservists only are paid when they attend training.
And as for the Unfit reservists maybe those of you in the regular forces might like to ponder this. Going to the Gym is part of your Job which you get gym facilities and in many cases time to do. For the reservist who also only have 24 hours in a day to fit in work, family and TA going to the Gym may not be as easy to plan in. And of course are the Mod going to pay for their Gym membership???? no are they allowed to use regular forces facilites if they are close by last i heard ofically no.

[gar170]

I can remember that a gym instructor at Brize was always happy to take Oggies for their fitness test.He always claimed it was the only time any showed any effort to pass and not only just attend.

[Wycombe]

gar...

I suspect that's because there was money riding on it! (no BFT, no bounty, or at least that was supposed to be the rules!).

[Green Flash]

Slightly off topic, but - is there any mileage in requiring MOD Civil Servants to have a reserve force commitment as part of their conditions of employment?

Some (RAFSR) do. I know one ;) who has had 16 deployments in the past 14 years ..... and another who has been to Basra over 10 times :eek:

[DucatiST4]

It already is an offence to dismiss a reservist if they are called up. However that hasn't been any compulsory mobilisation since 2003 so if you volunteer then i'm not so sure that you have the same protection.

Plus we are allowed to use the gym at Chilwell FOC. Its just a case of finding the right person to ask!

[Biggles225]

A goodly proportion of MoD Civil Servants are ex regulars and probably have a reserve commitment, but serious Snivel Serpents - I really cant see it! It's a bit like the 'bring back National Service', why lumber the regulars with people who dont want to be doing the job!:(

[Squirrel 41]

Ducati,

Somewhat off topic, but I think we need to be a bit careful here. All mobilisations are compulsory, and have the employment guarantee. However, the forces are now using something called "smart mobilisation" (better than the dumb equivalent, presumably) that in effect asks employees to ask their employers if it would be ok to mobilise them.

Now I'm sure that if you're sitting behind some comfy desk, Capt Darling, that this is a sensible, rational idea. :hmm: However, it is in fact the most ridiculous idea in recent memory in the reserves, as it says to many (and not all unscrupulous) bosses:

(a) my guy knows about this, and probable has for some time; :suspect:

(b) therefore probably volunteered, but certainly didn't oppose it, suggesting that s/he isn't very committed to me this job or the company; :suspect:

and

(c) if I sack / move sideways this person now before they are called up on another convenient pretext, I can escape the employment protection clauses of the the Reserve Forces Act. :hmm:

(To all the lawyers out there - c has happened, but how would you ever prove it? :* )

Which is why no-one I know has ever had the conversation with their employers. It's all a MASSIVE surprise when the brown envelope hits the mat. :cool:

At which point the individual has to have the "it's compulsory like what it says here and I can't get out of it so here are the dates that I'm going to have to go, terribly sorry, see you in six months, bye" conversation. :uhoh:

So to make this system work, you in effect need most of your reservists to mislead their employers. :hmm: And we wonder why employers aren't always madly keen on the reserve forces? :*

S41

[Jimlad1]

"Slightly off topic, but - is there any mileage in requiring MOD Civil Servants to have a reserve force commitment as part of their conditions of employment? "

I'm a CS and a reservist, as are many of my colleagues. The idea of making every CS a reservist is pointless - impossible to implement, would be a recruiting nightmare and many people would probably quit. Also, contrary to popular belief most CS do actually have a post that needs filling - call them up en masse and there goes procurement, logistics, policy, intelligence, support etc.

Don't forget that hundreds of MOD CS do serve overseas on tours anyway in a wide range of roles. Its been made clear that unless you deploy, your career prospects will suffer.

[Occasional Aviator]

Nice to be on a thread where I find myself agreeing with NURSE. Reservists are people, not just a resource. If we're going to make compulsory deployments a term of their service in the way the article suggests, we're going to have to look after them a whole heap better. That means proper employment protection and welfare as well as giving them the facilities to train.

[NURSE]

It isn't an offence it is grounds for an unfair dismissal hearing and many of the people i know in NHS who have been dismissed know as soon as they go to an industrial tribuneral they can kiss good bye to working in NHS again.

[blogger]

As an EX RAF person who left after 25 years because of the wrong wars Blair wanted to fight I stand by every TA person who wants not to be killed or have their legs blown off by a road side IED.

Stand up Guy's. look after number 1, your wife and kids the Bush and Blair war is over so stay at home.

B lox to these stupid wars of Bush and Blair.

[davejb]

Then Blogger the answer is to leave the TA,
not to remain in and cherry pick which wars you intend to take part in.

For all those blasting employers, perhaps you might consider this -
as an employer you now have to take somebody on to cover the work not being done by your TA member of staff. This is bound, I would think, to make TA personnel at least a little less than attractive to a potential employer. If your employer were compensated adequately, and protected by the government who wanted you to go work for them, I doubt the problems you encounter would still exist.

I'm not arguing that jobs shouldn't be protected, or that TA ought not to be able to go on ops - but the root cause of the problem is the refusal of the government to actually ensure that the employer doesn't end up bearing the actual cost of your deployment...if the government want you to deploy, then they should damn well pay for it. Businesses pay enough tax, and spend enough fruitless hours filling in endless bumph - to expect them to subsidise ill thought out military adventures is simply taking the p*$$. Our government, as usual, are simply trying to shift the cost and aggro onto someone else.

I ought to add that I am not an employer, and I enjoyed working alongside oggies for a number of years before retirement - it's the cynical way the government manage to shift the blame for things that gets my goat!

Dave

[Jimlad1]

The Govt does pay the cost of an employer recruiting cover for a reservist. The employer is not left out of pocket by the experience.

[Al R]

Blogger said:
I stand by every TA person who wants not to be killed or have their legs blown off by a road side IED.

Believe it ot not Blogger, I think most of us would stand by that sentiment. And not just the squatters who kidnap moral high ground wherever it may be found, by claiming some kind of self righteous ideological and political ascendancy. Having previously sponged off the system for 25 years of course.

[D O Guerrero]

Very interesting thread so far... Personally, having left the services a while back, I decided I didn't want to join the reserves as part of my reason for leaving was the endless mess we have mired ourselves in in the Gulf.
I very much sympathise with reservists who do not want to deploy. I imagine that a large number of them joined in the days when their deployment would only take place in the event of the UK mainland being under threat. Not unreasonable terms? However when the reserves are used as a cheap way of bolstering regular forces, I really can't see what the appeal would be to anyone aside from those ineligible to join the regulars.
If I could join the reserve, using my skills developed at great expense to the taxpayer and do something to help the efforts on the front line without actually going there, I would. I have no plans, however, to get my brains blown out for a country (edit: Iraq, that is) that I don't care about. Selfish, I know, but I suspect that's the way a great many people feel about it.

[Squirrel 41]

Jimlad1

What you say is technically correct: the MOD do indeed make a payment to replace the reservist who is called up. The problem, however, is that the reservists we have are often not immediately replaceable with the same skill set or contacts. Consequently - and especially for smaller employers - it simply isn't practical to replace the reservists and there is a loss in allowing them to go for 6-8 months (4-6 month tours plus pre-Dep and Leave/PODL). It is in making this sacrifice that the MOD is asking a lot from the employers - and it is here that the unpopularity of the cause makes a big difference.

S41

[The Gorilla]

In the industry I am in, any one in the TA or R Aux AF wouldn't be offered employment. Jimlad is wrong to state that an employer is not left out of pocket by the experience. That might have been the theory, but in practice....
:sad:

[c-bert]

As an ex-reservist I'm afraid I fundamentaly disagree with the concept of deploying reservist overseas. We do not have the training or experience to act as regulars and I believe the reservists should be used to backfill regulars' posts in the UK were skill, training and experience can be less critical.

[Wycombe]

C-bert, I'm an "ex" aswell, but still fairly closely in touch with my former unit.

As such, I agree re. overseas deployment, but the reality of the situation faced currently is that the Reserve have to be used "forward" as there simply aren't enough bodies in the regular trade to go around all the current commitments.

What you describe used to be the case, and was for me when mobilised to my parent unit for GW1 - those days are gone.

On the plus side, I would say this has (and maybe I generalise) probably improved the standing and perception of the Reserves with their regular counterparts.

[Al R]

Reservists, as part of their pensionable service, draw a gratuity/pension rights that would make Alan Sugar blush. In return, it compels on them an obligation and its that very pensionable service which gives them the 'training or experience'.

[davejb]

My understanding of the law (or lack of understanding perhaps!) is that an employer is able to apply for compensation for a called up employee -
I was not aware that the compensation would, for example, automatically pay for an equivalent part time employee to be taken on (I would think that in many cases a trained 'bank' employee would cost more to employ to fill the gap, so even a £ for £ compensation would probably still see employers out of pocket).

(So anybody who can post a link where it's all spelled out feel free... all Iv'e found is mention of 'some' compensation for employers).

Neither does the temporary employee necessarily have the skills you need - what if your finance director goes, for example, can they be replaced by somebody unfamiliar with your business?

I'm not an employer - but I do have sympathy for people trying to run companies who seem to be faced by an ever increasing list of challenges by our government - ONE of which is this one.

Dave

[DucatiST4]

http://www.sabre.mod.uk/output/page1.asp

[DucatiST4]

Don't include TA in that though - we don't qualify for a pension.

[davejb]

Cheers Ducati -
drilling down through different bits all I could actually find about 'what the employer gets' was


1.The Standard Award, one of three types of award available,
covers actual net additional costs incurred by the employer,
as a result of mobilisation of Reservist employees. This
includes both initial, non-recurring costs – such as
advertising for and interviewing replacement staff– and
additional recurring costs – such as agency fees and/or
overtime undertaken by other staff to compensate for
the mobilised employee’s absence. In both cases, the
amount that can be claimed is capped, according to the
Reservist’s rank.


...which strongly suggests that an employer isn't automatically covered for expenses - although lots of sites suggest this is being reworked. So your chief financial officer happens to be a Lance Corporal and....maybe you won't be getting all that much to help replace them!

I still think the goverment should pay for full time forces, I've still not seen anything to suggest employers don't actually subsidise the government when TA's deploy.

Dave

[Squirrel 41]

Al R -

Just to clear it up, reservists only get pensionable service for the period for which they have been called up for active duty - in other words, the period for which they have been inducted into the regular forces.

There is no "Reservist Pension" in the sense you imply - if you serve 40 years in the reserve and are never called up (obviously increasingly unlikely now) then you would get no pension at all. This is something that some reservists - though I don't include myself in this - can get very exercised about.

If you were to do a reservist pension scheme, the easiest route would be to set a high bar for the number of qualifying years (say 16 or 22) and then average the number of days served during that time - unlikely to be more than 40 for most reservists - and then pay that proportion of a standard military pension. This would be quite cheap - both because the absolute amounts would be quite small (c. 5-10% of a similar regular's pension), but also because only a few would qualify as most reservists (esp. TA) don't serve more than 10 years. However, it would be a nice thank-you.

Of course, you'd need to make sure that the reservists met their annual CCS / Fitness / Efficiency targets for that year to count towards whatever the thing was, but there you are. However, it would cost money,so it won't happen.

Thoughts?

S41

(edited for spolink)

[Al R]

Hi Squirrel,

Thanks for the decent reply.

My 'message' wasn't as clear as it should have been perhaps. I was referring to the fact that ex Regulars, as part of their pensionable service then have a reservist liability, and its that liability which the MoD is tapping into. If you do the 22, you don't have the reservist committment anyway (is that still the case?) but even if you do less than that, an ex Regular has experience which places on them a liability and a premium too, on their experience and skill. The Forces pension is transferable, so Reservist service can be topped up for the future and compared to civvy pensions its a cracking deal.

I see there's a fair degree of grumbling about the benefits calculator, and the pension. I wonder if many servicemen and women have taken out self invested or personal pensions on top of their existing non-con Occupational one? If they had, they would see what civvies have to pay to get a deal as good as the MoD one. I can see where you're coming from though - if you have done only a few years Reg service, to be 'on call' with no or little immediate payback could be galling. It seems bizarre that little is done to keep Reservists sweet. I remember most Reservists slipping through the net or simply ignoring their committment the moment they left. It seems to be a massive waste of resources.

Cheers. :)

[Beatriz Fontana]

I have to say that I had a brief flirtation with the RAuxAF (all personal hell let loose so sadly didn't join) and was told that it was expected that I would deploy after the basic Officer training. Mate of mine currently in the RAuxAF (as a SAC) was told the same thing and lo and behold...

Times have changed from the days when you joined the reservists - or the regulars to to that - and didn't see action.

[Winch-control]

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17 Dec 07

In a tented field hospital in the middle of the Afghan desert, a team of military medics capable of providing some of the best healthcare available anywhere await the latest casualties from Helmand Province. Report by Danny Chapman.


http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/defencenews/militaryoperations/GenerateThumbnail.aspx?imageURL=/NR/rdonlyres/7F4D9814-7079-4BE8-B39C-22726D2C23B0/0/aande.jpg&maxSize=210 (http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/defencenews/militaryoperations/LargeImageTemplate.aspx?img=/NR/rdonlyres/7F4D9814-7079-4BE8-B39C-22726D2C23B0/0/aande.jpg&alt=Emergency ward, Camp Bastion) In the emergency ward at the field hospital at Camp Bastion, medics administer treatment to a new casualty
[Picture: SAC Kimberley Waterson RAF]

It is early evening when the call comes in that some local Afghanis have been injured in a mine strike.

The Camp Bastion field hospital has 110 staff and the Accident and Emergency (A & E) Ward, the first point of call for casualties, can provide up to 22 medics for each patient.
Major Mike Carr is the Officer Commanding the A & E ward. He is a Territorial Army (TA) medic from 201 Field Hospital who currently have 57 personnel in Bastion. Major Carr normally works as a Resuscitation Officer in Middlesbrough Hospital:
"We absolutely wouldn't have this amount of people back home," he says. "They'll laugh at us back home and say we don't need that amount of people, but we have very different types of injuries here. We are truly patient focused."
The A & E ward is abuzz with different teams preparing equipment, drugs and beds for the patients they are expecting. The atmosphere is one of calm, collected, organised, expectation. Among the medics immediately available to treat battlefield casualties at Bastion are vascular specialists (dealing with veins and arteries), orthopaedic specialists (addressing musculoskeletal injuries), anaesthetists, neurosurgeons and trauma specialists. The specialists on hand are there precisely because of the types of injuries that most commonly come through the door - gun shot wounds and blast injuries:
"A casualty is truly better off here than back home," continues Major Carr. "I know I run the risk of upsetting my NHS friends, but I know everyone here and know everyone is joined up. You can't have it so labour intensive back home; otherwise you'd have people standing around doing nothing."
Soon after the initial call an update is read out saying that the casualties are being taken to a more local facility. However another Afghani, with a gun shot wound, will now be brought here. The area where the casualty is though is "hot", meaning there is hostile activity making it impossible for the Medical Emergency Response Team, onboard a Chinook helicopter, to land. The Bastion medics go into wait mode. And many go off to get some food and rest.
This is how the hospital works at Bastion. One of the members of the team who treat casualties on arrival is Lieutenant Colonel Ben Banerjee, the General Surgeon at Bastion. Also a TA medic from 201 Field Hospital whose day job is a consultant vascular surgeon at City Hospital, Sunderland, he has been in Bastion for 70 days, and in that time dealt with 168 "operative procedures." He explains:
"The work itself varies in busyness, casualties tend to come in large numbers, in a small space of time and we have periods of quieter times where we can catch up with rest and administration. My job back home is quite a busy job. Here, we've wiped the slate clean and really we're sitting here waiting for absolutely anything to come in the door.



"We think in terms of the 'Golden Hour', the ideal time from injury to surgery. Obviously we don't always get that, so to compensate we throw resources at the patient." Major Mike Carr

"I've done operational tours before, but this is the first time that I've worked at this sort of intensity. One has to be very conscious of making sure we get proper food and rest in between the casualties coming in. I've had to manage my own time very carefully."
It is close to midnight before another call comes in saying that the helicopter is on its way and will be twenty minutes, so the A & E team start preparing again:
"Time's our enemy," says Major Carr. "We think in terms of the 'Golden Hour', the ideal time from injury to surgery. Obviously we don't always get that, so to compensate we throw resources at the patient."
The casualty arrives. He is conscious and relatively OK it seems. The team go to work with the Trauma Team Leader directing them like a conductor in an orchestra. The radiography team are right there taking X-rays straight away. Intravenous tubes are placed in the patient's arms and pain killing drugs administered. The specialists analyse the extent of the injuries and whether any operations are needed tonight:
"The biggest challenges as a surgeon," says Lt Col Banerjee, "paradoxically are not in the operating theatre. I'm at home in the operating theatre. The biggest challenge is actually in the resuscitation room and making the right decisions for the patients. That may mean not operating on the patient or operating."
An interpreter is also right there at the bedside, asking the patient questions and translating the medic's instructions, though mostly he seems to be telling the patient, who after all has been shot and in a totally foreign environment, to relax.
"We often have to complete their surgery and rehabilitate them within this hospital. There are Afghan medical institutions, however at this point in time their capabilities are not as high as in this hospital."
The disciplined teamwork going on around tonight's patient is awe inspiring:
"If anything, the busyness here has brought the team closer together," says Lt Col Banerjee. "And it works and produces the highest quality of healthcare that I've ever seen."
201 Field Hospital undergo specific medical training packages leading up to their deployment as well as hospital exercises, which help them come together as a team. Lt Col Banerjee, who has been in the unit for 18 years, says:
"This is the icing on the cake as far as the family and the team that 201 Field Hospital is and really has brought us all much closer together."



http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/defencenews/militaryoperations/GenerateThumbnail.aspx?imageURL=/NR/rdonlyres/4C138E00-4E51-43A0-BC4B-CDDFFE3030CC/0/aandebanerjee.jpg&maxSize=210 (http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/defencenews/militaryoperations/LargeImageTemplate.aspx?img=/NR/rdonlyres/4C138E00-4E51-43A0-BC4B-CDDFFE3030CC/0/aandebanerjee.jpg&alt=Lieutenant Colonel Ben Banerjee) Lieutenant Colonel Ben Banerjee, General Surgeon from 201 Field Hospital in the operating theatre at Camp Bastion
[Picture: SAC Kimberley Waterson RAF]

Within an hour, the patient has been stabilised and it is decided he doesn't need an operation tonight and will be placed onto the ward to be monitored. The hospital's standard wards can take up to 23 patients, but they can adapt it to take up to 50 if needed. Because the wards are all tented they can be easily added to if required.
The hospital consists of a huge corridor running spine-like down the centre of the different wards which branch off on each side:
"The field hospital layout has essentially been the same for years," says Major Carr, "but it does work. Everything I need is here."
The wards branching off the corridor include an operating theatre, a pharmacy, an intensive treatment unit and pathology unit, where a patient's blood type is tested, just in case there's been mistake on the dog tags:
"It might look basic, but it's just as functional as any other theatre in the NHS," Lt Col Banerjee says, sitting in his two bed operating theatre. "Most of the equipment here is very simple, because we're applying basic surgical principles. We're trying to save somebody's life. We have all the equipment we require to do any life saving procedure. Obviously there are occasions where we might decide we need another specialist bit of equipment, but that's usually ordered and can be here within two days."
The temperature within the tented hospital is controlled, and according to Major Carr the biggest challenge to working in the tented hospital is keeping it clean, especially from all the dust around Bastion, but a special gel is used and a bit more cleaning than usual is required.
Tonight's single casualty though, despite the long wait for his arrival, has made tonight, a relatively quiet night.
Both Lt Col Banerjee and Major Carr, who like the other TA medics, are in Helmand for three months, say this is the busiest deployment they've been on:
"It's bloody exhausting," says Lt Col Banerjee. "We've been through quite a busy phase and it's quite hard to work at this intensity. We sleep when we can and eat when we can, but it's always been like that for medics."
Err hes my wifes cousin and in the TA!!!!

[NURSE]

interesting point which i do agree with the govt makes it bl**dy awkward for employers to claim what they are entitled to. However most of the reservists I know who have lost their jobs were employed by govt eg the NHS and Mod.