Netjets INDOC and beyond

[Cpt_Schmerzfrei]

Good afternoon everybody,


I still have 3 months to go until INDOC but I can´t stop wondering:


How long is it?
When will I receive further information about it?
What does happen there? Classes, tests?
Where to sleep&eat, what to wear – I heard shirt and tie? (ok, trousers and the usuals stuff, I know :E)
When will we know about the a/c type we get?
How long between INDOC and type rating?
What does line training look like?
Anybody willing to share some information?

[redsnail]

Indoc's 2 weeks long. That also includes SEPs, water drills, lots of form filling out and the occassional social outing. :E

You'll find out the details about a week or so before you go.

What happens? Take your swimmers, bank details, business attire as well as casual clothes. Take a bigger bag for part of your uniform etc. Budget about 5-6 Euro/day for lunch and whatever for dinner. A couple of dinners will be bought for you. You will be paid your 70 E per diems.

You'll find out your aircraft at Indoc. Rarely it changes whilst on Indoc.

Indoc and type rating. About a week to 2 weeks. Type rating lasts about 3 weeks for most types. 6 weeks for the Gulfstreams.

The delay can be some weeks post base training can take a while because there's no available line trainers. Hopefully, that won't be a problem.

Line training? Well, you get paired up with a line trainer and off you go for 6 thrill filled days. Repeat until all the sectors and boxes ticked. Depending on your previous experience it could be 20 sectors or 40 sectors minimum.

Check your pm.

[Miserable Old Git]

Cpt_Schmerzfrei,

Check for a PM from me too.

MOG

[EatMyShorts!]

Take care of your liver ;)

[lifter91]

Hi everybody,

what's a SEP?

And can I get the same info as Cpt Schmerzfrei (via P.M.), because we're in the same INDOC?

Thx, Olli

[thedeadseawasonlysick]

Reddo,

My A/C type changed three times in the first week of Indoc!

[redsnail]

TDSWOS, strewth, did you upset the Fleet Managers? :ooh:

[lifter91]

Hi,

@mike jenvey: :E:E:E

thanks, how's NY?

Olli

[thedeadseawasonlysick]

Reddo,

I'm just so lovely, they all wanted me!

[spitfire64]

Cpt Schmerzfrei check your PMs.

[36050100]

Couple of quick questions re the bond - is it the same for all types and how much is it ?

Ta.

[Sgnr de L'Atlantique]

Hi guys,


I will be joining you during the june Indoc as well.

So could someone please send me those PMs redsnail sent around?

@ Mike Jenvey,

why would we need a second passport exactly? Have been flying over 10 years and never heard of it but then again, NJE is a totally new experience for me so any tip is worth its letters in Gold!

Looking forward to it ( Not too sure about that Blackberry but hey....)

Take care

[PicMas]

why would we need a second passport exactly?

two reasons:

1) When one is handed off to authorities for visa application, you will still be able to work.

2) Some countries, ex. Israel and rest of Middle East, US and Cuba have diplomatic "difficulties" (for lack of better words). Having a stamp from one may give you problems when attempting to enter the other. Having two passports will make your role as an apolitical character easier, and limit the number of questions from immigration personnel.

[Aussie]

Does that mean the second passport is issued by the home country again or...?

[Sgnr de L'Atlantique]

:ok:Ok, makes sense....

But I do not think all authorities authorise you to have two passports...

Ill check it.

One worry I found somewhere else on the net :)

One pair of underwear will last you 4 days, as long as u turn them inside out and around...

did not know it was THAT small!:ok:

[PPRuNeUser0215]

If you are French, there is no problem. ;)

[PicMas]

Does that mean the second passport is issued by the home country again or...?

Yes, I know different countries have different rules. I am Danish, and all it took for me was a letter from the company (not NetJets) stating that I, due to my frequent travel to yaddayaddayadda, needed an extra passport, and if possible a third passport. I got the second by filling out a normal application and was advised that the third would require a written application to the ministry of internal affairs:hmm:

One pair of underwear will last you 4 days, as long as u turn them inside out and around...
Or... you can do a couple of push-ups when putting on the uniform for the umpteenth time without drycleaning, should break off the worst crust... I have been told

[redsnail]

I have 3, although one's an Australian passport. It stays in the safe at home. :ok:

I was informed that if you threw your undies at the wall and they sticked, it was time to change them. Otherwise, they're good to go. :ok:

Note. I do not do this! :ooh: :eek: :=

[Iver]

When will newhire get FO slot to Falcon 7X? In summer? What aircrafts most popular assignment lately to newhires?

[Flintstone]

Yep. All the newhires over the next few months will go straight on the 7X. The guys and girls already in the company really don't mind :O

[Sgnr de L'Atlantique]

Heheheh......A whole new world of underwear bashing opens up for me!

I never knew so many theories existed on he subject.

Myself I rather not wear any....saves space, energy to wash and apparently extra bills for cleaning hotel walls with stains after undies where being thrown at them in order to remove crusts of suspicious nature.....

:mad:STOP...BACK to the topic before I get thrown of the forum!:mad:


The 7X eh......

well, I guess a healthy ambition can be a good thing in certain situations in our job!:=

Ill be over the moon if I get assigned to the HS-800 XP!:E

Good luck to all

[PPRuNeUser0215]

When will newhire get FO slot to Falcon 7X? In summer? What aircrafts most popular assignment lately to newhires?

First condition for anybody to go on the 7X is..... Having at least one 7X.
Obvious I know (or is it ?) but they won't be delivered until November (and things can always change).


Flintstone :ok: :)

[Taxi2parking]

I joined on a Falcon 2000 although I had plenty of hours for command. I was pleased at the time because its a nice aircraft with a F/A and a nice life. However, you won't upgrade on a large cabin so it will delay your move to a LHS slot by as much as a year - which is a big financial penalty. So if you have the hours to go for an upgrade straight away your better getting a small or medium cabin aircraft. Funnily enough I actually enjoyed it more operating the smaller aircraft.

[natops]

Iver,
7x will be crewed by senior Line training Captains first, so they can teach eachother and then later teach the 7X Line captains. When there are enough line captains then the FO´s come into the picture.

I think it will take at least until middle to late 2009 that the first FO´s will arrive on line.
Its just an estimate ofcourse, dont kill me if I´m wrong.

N.:ok:

[Aussie]

Hey Red, I got 3 passports at the moment as well :\ No idea how the authorities in PL would look at another passport...

You ever use your Aussie passport when travellin for work?

[redsnail]

Sgnr Atlantique,

I think "commando" is probably a better option than the "man thong". :ooh:

Flintstone.

Hehaha, nah, we don't mind. (Fuel tanks too big :E )

Aussie,

Never, it stays in the safe. The British ones have all the visas and stamps. It appears for the trips back to Oz.

[Cpt_Schmerzfrei]

Two more questions came to my mind this afternoon while trying not to think about man thongs:

- Regarding my license/medical: Will I stay with my national authorities or will I have to convert my license with the UK authorities? Who will take care of it? I know that some companies with international staff (eg. Cargolux) leave the paperwork and responsibility with the employer.

- Regarding the 7X talk: Isn´t there a seniority list in place now? I even heard something about a website where you can see your place in the queue and so on?

[Flintstone]

You keep your JAA licence and medical.

I'm sure someone nearer the company will be able to answer your questions about the crystal clear seniority system :oh:

[CL300]

people who know about 7x, won't speak...

The ones who speak don't know.

The one's that would like to speak about can only speculate...

Politics, sensitive subject the FBW...:cool:

[natops]

right.... on the internet you said?
havent found it mate!

maybe crystal clear for the management but not really for me yet...

N:ok:

[lifter91]

Hi people,

why do pilots in the civilian world always care so much about the plane they fly? Ist the pay different or what?:confused:

What makes it so much more exciting to be on a "big" jet and fly across the ocean for 7 hours (with your clearances coming out of a printer) and land once, instead of being on a small jet and having 4 short legs a day (2 of them with a VFR portion) and landing on small airfileds with short runways in some valley in the Alps exactly at the performance limit of the airplane??? :confused:

Am I missing something here or have I been flying military transports for too long?:O

Can someone help me out with an answer here please???

Cheers, Olli

P.S. of course it's personal taste, I do not mean to offend anybody !!!!!!

[redsnail]

In many things with life, bigger the better :E ..... but, for me, with aircraft, a sports car is a million times more fun than a family saloon....

[lifter91]

:E
copy that.

[south coast]

Lifter91...

We dont all think along your lines because we dont all want to fly on the edge of the limits/boundaries/envelope (call it what you will).

I want the easiest, safest and most hassle-free job which allows me to enjoy my time off best.

NJ doesnt always meet all three of those criteria, but it is definetly easy and safe, so I can live with two out of three, and it is only now and then that the third becomes a real issue.

[shneidertrophy]

C'mon,


even you hardcore bizzjetjocks must admit that the bigger the plane, the more comfortable your working environment becomes!

Cabin height, luggage space, stability when flying, etc...

And last but not least: the flightdeck!

I dont belive that the flightdeck (and thus working environment) on board of a 7X is not 100000 times more comfortable than the flightdeck of eg. a Citation Bravo or a Hawker400!

I am really curious to see how many of your Falcon 2000 Easy pilots would agree when told they had to fly the 800XP again!

So hey, put that almost-frustration regarding bigger jets besides you and at least admit to certain advantages bigger airplanes have going for them!

Flyingwise I would love to get my hands on e.g. a Falcon900 for a couple of months. explore the boundaries of the flight enveloppe and land at the most obscure airfields...

The question is: do you want to do this the rest of your career? Will you never get tired of not having the privacy of a closed cockpit, 14 stewardesses to serve you,....
Will you never ask for the protection a true SOP has to offer...

I am just wondering here guys, just wnt to open up the discussion a little bit.
After 20 years of flying big commercials jets I am a keen follower of the Netjets forums, but these questions seem to remain unanswered.

So please, enlighten me!

A confused airline pilot

[south coast]

Of course bigger, more advanced planes with a fa are easier than the smaller non apu fleets.

But, I think one has to understand the company's way of reflecting seniority, ie. start off as a captain on a small plane to work towards being a captain on a larger plane.

It is just a different way, compare it to a large legacy carrier where it takes, how long to be a captain on a 747 (5-15 years, guessing), you can be a captain on a small to mid-size plane within 2 years, and a captain on a large bizjet within 3-5 years.

Some guys who come from the big carriers have had enough of the advantages you describe, the locked cockpit door, the mundane routine of A-B-C and back to A, the 14 fa's in the back, so there are those out there who dont want what you described for the rest of their careers.

I dont think either is any better than the other, just depends what the individual is looking for.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Flyingwise I would love to get my hands on e.g. a Falcon900 for a couple of months. explore the boundaries of the flight enveloppe

I think you might have the wrong idea on how NJE and other reputable GA operators work. Nobody explores the flight enveloppe but if they do so willingly (other than cases of wake turb, windshear etc...), they do not belong in a modern professional environment, be with an airline (I am ex) or NJE.

and land at the most obscure airfields...[/QUOTE]

That's what make some of us tick but obscure doesn't mean dangerous. You still apply the necessary factors to operate safely and if you are unhappy about it, it is your call as a professional.

So now, from based on my past experience (73,75,76 in a reputable European airline)...

Cabin height: ;) I m 1.78m tall (or short compared to my Scandinavian colleagues) and lucky to be flying an XL so I can pretty much stand up.

luggage space: Well in this area the XL is king. You can fit skis in the cargo hold and sets of golf clubs fit standing up :). Told you I was lucky.

stability when flying: Yep sure, just like it says in Handling the Big Jets. But it is easier to taxi, manoeuver etc... From handling point of view and from the often available excess thrust available, overall Bizjets are nicer. But to be fair, the Excel is a very draggy aeroplane with very little residual thrust so a nice VNAV decent, idle from TOD etc.... is not possible (unless you overshoot the TOD by a very very long way and do it FLC. Not an option with PAX and not so much one in congested area due to a stupidly high ROD and low forward velocity..... A brick for short).
Still the XLS will take you up to FL450 in no time, no level off required etc...


And last but not least: the flightdeck!
Defo agree with you... They are tiny. But I remember as well going from the 75/76 to the 73 and having to change my flight case because of the much small size.. So when I moved to NJE, I had to do that again (good for the flight bag industry you ll have to agree).
You are right though, not much room but nice cup holders for drinks (nicer than on the Boeings). You have two each and the location is more sensible too (no need to have the drink holders near the center pedestal Mr Boeing - PS not the case on all Boeing types before I get shot for being inaccurate).
And yes it would be nice to stand up once in a while, enjoy the comfort of the almost flat bed/jumpseat of a 76 etc) but with rather short flights such as we get on the XL, I have learnt to live with it. I enjoy my longish turn around though where I can really stretch my legs. Horses for courses etc...

The question is: do you want to do this the rest of your career?
I can say that flying Loco, short haul, same destinations was definitely what I didn't want to do for the rest of my career.
So far I really enjoy the type of flying I do and I have no plan to return to the airlines. If the job market is such that I have no choice then of course I will but I will try hard no to.
Will you never get tired of not having the privacy of a closed cockpit
I got tired of being locked up at the front with for only contact, the Number 1/CSD whatever name they have in various outfits. I got bored of not being able to "socialise" with my PAX during a flight or sticking to SOPs forbidding me to allow a 3 years old in the flight deck, whilst parked on stand, engine shut down (you never know what terrorists look like these days :ugh:apparently).
14 stewardesses to serve you,....
I only managed 11 so I wouldn't know but I have never found it to be that great. They were usually busy or tired or... What I mean is that the number idn't necessarily make the quality of the exchange. Still, we had some good giggle and if you were a good crew then of course it was nice. Just the same as when you leave on tour with 1 or 2 other crew members. If you get on well together you will have a blast, if you don't then hell could sound like an appealing option ;).

[/quote]Will you never ask for the protection a true SOP has to offer.[QUOTE]
If I understand your question, you are asking how strong SOPs are in GA ?
I m pleased to say that so far, I can feel that the SOP culture is pretty strong within NJE. Some are a little bit "small plane/C152" mentality (such as the number of check lists we have and the lack of structured flow patterns)" derived but they are evolving in the right direction.
If you know your SOPS, books etc... nobody seem to go against that.

So there we go shneidertrophy, this is how I see things now that I work for a GA operator and after having done some time in the airlines.
It is not for everyone and even if you like GA, NJE might not be for you. Only you can tell but in my personal case, I miss prett much nothing about my old job. Nothing that I don't have today...

Now to finish about big planes small planes I say two things....
- When I look ahead it looks just like the same
- When I look behind, I see... nice leather seats, TVs, sofas (Ok not on the XL).


PS: I do not discuss the simple fact that a larger flight deck is more comfortable though. It's just how it is by design.

Happy X'mas all.

[Taxi2parking]

:* Ahhh I hate you Excel pilots with your fab cup holders and capacious baggage holds!






...yeah OK I fly the 800XP - with particularly rubbish cup holders.:{

[shneidertrophy]

Amex,


thanks for the reply mate. Very well structured.

Regarding my flight enveloppe remark......


I was just making it since it seems to be an ever-returning argument of certain people here on why GA would be better than commercial aviation. It must be some of the ex fighter pilots who say and do this, hopefully only on the ferry flights!

For some reason than that dassault picture of a Falcon900, taking off almost vertically above the runway, taking from the front and you see both pilots smiling....

I do realise that these jets are operated by professionals and that exploring flight enveloppes is not part of the dy to day routine.

Just used it as an attention drawer...

[Flintstone]

Nobody explores the flight envelope

<cough!!> G4! <cough!> ;)



For some reason than that dassault picture of a Falcon900, taking off almost vertically above the runway, taking from the front and you see both pilots smiling....

Photoshopped no doubt. That's the thing with the internet, you can never be sure.................

[PPRuNeUser0215]

From Flintstone

Nobody explores the flight envelope

<cough!!> G4! <cough!>
;) ;)

Stunts are found in reputable airlines too. In established companies, it is very rarely a company culture but more an individual's own conception of his job. It should not be happening anywhere but in the real world it still does. It doesn't make it right though.


But the full quote in my post.

Nobody explores the flight enveloppe but if they do so willingly (other than cases of wake turb, windshear etc...), they do not belong in a modern professional environment, be with an airline (I am ex) or NJE.