Foreign Pilots

[silver city]

Does anyone know if American Airlines recently hired a number of French pilots as they have a shortage at present?

Have any airlines began sponsoring foreigners?

[Roadtrip]

Not true. Any foreign pilots hired must have green cards. I don't know of any airlines that are sponsing foreigners for green cards - there is no justification. American is hiring 1000 total this year and plans are for 600 next year. There is no pilot "shortage" - just a slight decrease in the numbers of more experienced civilian pilots and military pilots.

[ 28 July 2001: Message edited by: Roadtrip ]

[411A]

.....and this slight decrease, shall we call it a recession, has slowed the hiring to practically......nothing.

[TowerDog]

411A:

Hiring at AA has not slowed to "Almost Nothing".

They have 2 classes a month @ 54 in each class. 1 class cancelled for whatever reason, but the 2 classes a month will continue for the rest of this year.
Another 600 pilots will be recruited next year.

Yes, Delta and United quit hiring, but not AA.

[Wino]

1 class was canceled to allow the simulator backlog to ease a little.

Since then it has been back to full speed ahead. 1000 this year. 600 next year, but that number is only based on the first 6 months. Next years full year projections come out in September which might very well have the pace continue through the end of the year.

Cheers
Wino

PS finish 767 IOE yet Towerdog?

[RRAAMJET]

411A, that really makes my blood boil...

Can you not, just for once, do even a LITTLE BIT of research before posting? Utterly pathetic, and if, as you purport, you are management in an Arizona start-up, you SHOULD be far better informed. A simple phone call would have sufficed, or even checking our website while you where online.

What is it with you and critiqueing everybody else's carriers? I'm even more convinced now that you have a chip on your shoulder about something.... maybe it's because you've had to drag yourself (and family) all over the world from one carrier to another because you couldn't get a position at a stable major for a 30-year $8 million career ??? Am I getting warm...? You'd never admit it, though :D :D

[Barrelroll]

There has been very strong rumours that Delta or some US major has applied for 600 green cards. (Could it be that they see a shortage coming?) Can anyone confirm this?

BR

[BMM389EC]

There has been a rumour south of the Equator that Delta would be headed down this way looking for crew, although I find this rather hard to believe. Never the less interested to hear if anyone has any info on the topic!

[zerozero]

In my opinion, aspiring pilots (American and foreign) need to put the term "pilot shortage" in perspective.

Getting a job in an American major is still very competitive.

As far as I'm concerned, the first clue that a "shortage" truly exists is when all the majors drop their application fees.

By the way, is American Airlines still charging $100 to apply? :eek:

Lower down the food chain (e.g. regional, air taxi and flight schools) there is indeed a shortage.

But again, it's still very competitive at the majors and I seriously doubt they have any problem filling their seats.

Good luck, fly safe

[GlueBall]

There is no record of any major U.S. carrier sponsering foreign pilots without an FAA ticket, without a Green card, without a Social Security card.

There is never a pilot shortage, only a sometimes shortage of very experienced pilots.

Because AA had been caught and fined for cheating on crew complements on 8+ hour sectors (such as HNL-DFW) the company is forced to hire more crews despite the recession.

Additionally, because of vigorous FAA enforcement of crew duty limitations, and pending rulemaking on curtailing duty times,
furloughed pilots will be recalled and more pilots will have to be hired soon.

:cool:

[Deep Float]

zerozero,
You say "Lower down the food chain (e.g. regional, air taxi and flight schools) there is indeed a shortage"

Does this mean that there may be scope for an aspiring Dutch pilot with a UK CAA frozen ATPL (=CPL/IR/ME and ATP ground subjects passed) and about 300 hours to find employment in the United States?

If this is true, I'll be on a plane tomorrow!

If you need more info, please read my CV:
www.pilots.btinternet.co.uk/cv1-int.doc (http://www.pilots.btinternet.co.uk/cv1-int.doc)

Thanks!

Arjan

[zerozero]

Whoa! Hang on! Please don't make a decision to pack your bags and move to a different country just because of what I write here.

Yes, it's true that a Dutch man with an FAA commercial certificate and 300 hours could find a job, but you need to know the following:

With less than 1000 hours you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

In fact with less than 1200 hours you can't act as PIC on a 135 (air taxi) IFR flight. And with less than 500 hours you cannot act as PIC on a 135 VFR flight.

Now you're relegated to flight instruction (you need to get a US CFI obviously), banner tow, crop dusting, traffic watch, pipeline/fire patrol, fish spotting...et cetera.

See what I'm getting at? You'd be kinda pissed at me if I said, "Yeah, come on over and you'll be sitting in the right seat of a turbo-prop."

While it's possible you could get a job flying in the right seat of a turbo-prop you'd probably do yourself a favor (and your future captains as well) if you came over and taught people how to fly for a thousand hours or so.

You never learn a subject so well as when you teach it. It'll make you a better pilot.

I think that's a more realistic option at this point.

Feel free to follow up.

Fly safe.

[Langolier]

Towerdog! I received a message from AEPS only a few weeks ago saying that Delta is planning to hire 1000 guys a year for the next seven years. If that's the case, why did they stop hiring now all of a sudden? Is my information incorrect, or yours? Also, the fact that UAL stopped hiring is only related to the merger. I checked their website yesterday, and they've even cancelled classes. They've said all the time that they'd end up fat if they hired all they need, and the merger goes ahead.

Cheers

[inverted flatspin]

The only place I see a shortage is among the ranks of the flight instructors. Everywhere else you need at least 1000 hrs with preferably 100 multi PIC.

[Deep Float]

zerozero,

The thruth can be hard, but thanks anyway.
Like you say, it's better than hot air...

[zerozero]

Hot air? Oh yeah, there's lots of that over here too.

Best wishes to you Deep Float. Even if the timing isn't perfect right now, who knows what the future holds--and don't rule out flying the bush in Alaska--is just like the North Sea. :eek:

Fly safe

[TowerDog]

Langolier:

If Delta is going to hire 1000 pilots a year for the next 7 years....?
Don't know anything about that, all I know is that they stopped recruiting.
However, my info may be wrong.
Did ya say AEPS? They charge a fee for anybody to apply even if the company is not taking on pilots?

A good rumor could drum up some business I guess.

Don't take my word for it, you and AEPS may be right.

I doubt it.

As for a pilot shortage with the US Majors:
No, there is no shortage at all, they don't have to go to France or South of the border to get people.
Most of the majors have between 10,000 and 20,000 active applications on file.

There was a real shortage in the 1960's and United Airlines solved that by employing young boys with a Private Pilot's license, then sponsor their CPL.
Sort of an Ab-Inito.
That would probably happen again IF there ever was a shortage in this country.

Good luck.

[Wino]

Langolier,

That is an outright lie spoken to get you to pay more money to AEPS.

1000 pilots per year for 7 years is 7000 pilots which would be doubling the size of DELTA. Do you really think Delta is gonna double in size, especially while they are grounding aircraft and shrinking?

Be careful Many of these recruiting agencies are nothing but snake oil salesman. Don't believe anything from anyone charging you for that info. They are just trying to make their worthless product seam valuable.

Sorry to throw cold water your way.

and any one who thinks the US airlines are gonna go overseas to get pilots should send me a check for 100 dollars and I will tell em all they need to know.

Cheers
Wino

[IOS97]

All pilots have to meet several basic criteria before a Major will hire them. They are: 1. US Citizenship or a Green Card
2. Valid FAA licences
3. Class 1 medical
4. 4-Year College Degree
5. 4000 hours flying time
6. If your don't meet 1. then forget it.
The easiest way to obtain a green card is through personal/familial relations.
A country of almost 300 million will NEVER have difficulties filling the 2 seats in the pointy end of 747s. Quit spreading BS about opportunities in the American aviation sector for foreigners. Simply put there are none available!!! Only Americans need apply.
I am not being rude but merely trying to emphasize the simple fact that it is not possible to get a job at a Major American Airline like United or Delta without holding US citizenship or a Green Card.
E Pluribus Unum

[mktong]

will i be able to get into major with H-1 visa? H-1 is treated as a legal right for u to work in US but is it considered as a greencard in another way?
please advise. cheers!

[IOS97]

Nope. Not a chance in hell of getting directly into a Major airline in the states on an H-1B visa as an H-1B is not a Green Card. H-1B visas are for foreign professionals in computers, medicine, academic research, law, engineering and nursing. Piloting Aircraft is not recognized by the US Government as a profession in dire need of foreign workers ,AND IT NEVER WILL BE, so foreign pilots will not be granted H-1B visas.
With the economy going south - especially the dot.com sector - in the States and a Republican President at the helm you can be assured of a serious reduction in the numbers of H-1B visas issued to foreigners.
If you want more info go to the American Embassy in Malaysia or read up on visas on the INS website.

[aluminum ovcst]

Wino,

You overlooked a major point before posting your reply, my man. 7000 pilots in 7 years = 1000/yr or 83/mo. This seems like an awful lot, I know, and you mention that 7000 additional pilots would double the size of flight crew members at Delta. All that is correct. However, you overlook the fact that a sh##load of them good ole boys are retiring in the next few years (baby boom effect), which means that the pilot population at the company will NOT double i the next 7 years. Not even close. In fact, 83 new hires a month seems reasonable to me to make up for this and still keep up with growth in the industry in general.

One more thing, American IS hiring ~50/month for as long a they can foresee, TW aquisition considered and all. This is directly from a source recently hired. So there you go.

AO

[Metro man]

Any opportunities outside of the airlines in turbo props;commuter ,freight etc for experienced pilots.Is there a shortage of Captains at this level with a few thousand hours in the log book ? Obviously no shortage of F/Os with a few hundred hours total,but they can't be promoted for a while.

[Wino]

While I agree Delta will have a large number of retirements, A large number of retirments over a 7 year periods would be 2000, not 7000. Delta was a small airlines till relatively recently and has already done a large amount of hiring. I don't see them absorbing 5000 more pilots.

The best airline for a retirement curve currently is American. American already has 12000 pilots, and starting in 05 or so will be retiring almost 500 a year. A little more if you thrown in TWA (which would then bring American to 14500 pilots)

As an AA pilot, I agree they are gonna hire for the forseeable future. However, Crew planning which developes the needs, only defines the forseeable future as the 2nd quarter of 02. They have no idea what they will do beyond then. They might even furlough as they bring pilots across from TWA. (not likely, but who knows? Not even AA management)

They won't untill september start projecting next years flying.

Yes you have seen some incredible hiring by the major airlines over the last year or two, but that is a short term abberation as the FARs were changed requireing about 1/3 more pilots on the reserve lists.

All the majors have now caught up with that, and no one is now expanding fleet capacity so... Its just a pitch to get you to pay more money.

Cheers
Wino

[411A]

Like I said guys, no shortage.
I have a stack of CV's on file here 6 inches high so will pick and choose the best. In our case, a shortage of experienced type-rated Captains (yes) so will train as required. As for the major carriers, no shortage. If you want to believe the BS from AEPS, go ahead.

[IOS97]

Metroman ,ya gotta have US citizenship or the Green Card to be hired on by any aircraft operator. But to answer your question about opportunities....there are quite a few for American citizens and Permanent Residents (green card holders).
I read a thread a couple weeks ago between an American pilot in Alaska and a South African. They were discussing the prospects for employment in Alaska for foreigners. It seems there's a serious shortage of pilots at your level in Alaska. Go back in the logs a couple weeks in the North American section and you will get the thread.
Good luck

[Roadtrip]

One thing for sure in the US airline industry - If you don't like what you see, wait a little while and it'll change. I don't expect Delta to hire for a while, and UAL is still licking it's wounds from the US Air debacle. US Air is short of pilots, but is in very tenuous financial condition. The US economy is in a slump with no clear light at the end of the tunnel.

One thing for sure, there's no shortage of qualified pilots for major airlines - only some of the regionals are lowering standards.

[Check 6]

I do not believe there is a shortage of qualified pilots either, outside of flight instructing. I posted an ad for a jet FO (P-2) position on Sunday, and received approximately 250 resumes in three days. About 175 applicants qualified for the position, and many of them are currently Captains/type rated on the aircraft.

I believe this so-called "shortage" is a combination of media-hype and self-serving employment agency rhetoric. :D

[Onan the Clumsy]

Citizenship or Green card; sure, time in the logbook and certificates; sure, but you're still overlooking the most important thing: Being in the right place at the right time.

[strewth]

Hi everyone,

This will be loosely based round the general topic.

I am a pilot with bare minimum hours etc etc one of a million looking for a first job in Australia. Also keep in mind I have only got the right to work and live in Australia and nowhere else.

My question is: What is the situation in the US regarding the simplest of jobs in the oldest and slowest of aircraft. Does any one over want to do them? Do these jobs exist?

I know that over here the pilot progressions starts with single engined charter in the outback some where until you reach around 1000 hours then the wide world of multi engined charter arrives (Beech Barons and Piper Navajo's yay). This is usually followed from about 1500 hours by progression into a major GA company flying right hand kero, or the right hand seat in a regional major domestic / international airline. I personally have been living in Darwin for about a year now looking for (and dreaming of) the simplest of flying jobs and everyone else in the world seems to be bickering that they haven't cracked a turbine job yet!!!! What is going on!!!!!!!

What would your typical US pilot have in comparison for job prospects?

I am now hearing from other itinerant Australians, ex-pat Americans and through forums such as this that there is a "shortage" (please don't bite my head off for using that word)of pilots in the lower echelons of the US GA industry. Is there a place for a person such as myself who only wants a couple of hundred hours to build the time to make myself more marketable to companies back home?

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

[zerozero]

I don't know about the other Americans in this thread, but I've been getting quite a bit of email from Europeans asking for advice about working in the US.

Believe me! I'm not complaining! :)

I like to help out whenever I can. I remember how tough it was for me trying to get my foot in the door.

But I have two points for any foreigner considering work in the US:

1) I'm not the best person to ask because I have no experience with immigration law. You'd probably get better advice from a Brit or Aussie or Swede who has already done what you're trying to do.

And--

2) Finding a reputable employer/flight school is much easier to do if you're already here.

The bottom line for all the low timers is this: Opportunity exists in the flight schools and charter departments of America.

There is less opportunity at the regional level and, of course, even less at the major airlines.

There are no hard and fast rules. I wish I could tell people (that I know would work hard and do a good job), "do THIS and you'll get a job," but I don't want to have that hanging over my head.

All I can do is offer my encouragement while acknowledging the fact that moving to a foreign country is a risky proposition.

And don't rule out Alaska. So many foreigners disregard Alaska as part of the US. Alaska relies on aviation more than any other state in the Union.

In sum: Good luck, Fly safe, Don't give up, It's a long road, but worth it...they keep telling me... :rolleyes:

[Scott Voigt]

New to posting here....

I have noticed a LOT more pilots with other than Texas accents flying lately for both package folks as well as the communters. We've always heard different dialects from the flight instructors around here. Sometimes REALLY hard to understand too... It appears just from listening to the frequencies that there are indeed more foreign pilots up there...

regards

[rick1128]

First of all from what I have seen over the industry that the pilot shortage is very small. Pilots with 300 to 1200 hours are coming out the rafters. The supply of more experienced pilots for regional and majors is more than enough. However, I have seen spot shortages of very experienced pilots with in the charter area and some of the low end corporate areas. Some operators are now willing to type individuals.

But before anyone thinks of moving over here, be aware that the INS has stiffened the imigration laws. Except for very special situations, you will have to have a green card before you are hired.

Richard

[arnoldschwarzenegger]

Hi guys,

I am very much interested in joining United Airlines. I know that they are currently not hiring, but sooner or later they have to start again. Any United guys out there, who could tell a bit about inside the airline, like crewroster, combined days OFF, salary, deciding on aircraft type and homebase,how many homebase changes during your career, how many years to PIC, any other benefits?

Thanx a lot

Arnie

P.S.: What´s in your opinion the best major to work for?

[Spatial Disorientation]

Strewth...You said that you want to get into the US and build your hours. Well, you have several options available to you, but you will need to have some money saved up and ready to spend (especially considering the exchange rate at the moment).
1. You can enter the US and work under a study visa, this is usually through a flight school that will sponsor you. You will need to conduct your training with them, commercial conversion and instructors. Then they will employ you as an instructor and pay you (the hourly rate is alot better now than it was when I was there), and you will probably depending on the flight school do max hours and learn alot. It is a two year visa, and you will do alot of single and multi engine instructing.
2. When your visa is nearing it's running out stage, you can start studying at a University for an Aviation degree, and continue to work and live in the US, while you do this. You are not tied to the same flight school at that time, and can usually try and find something doing air charter and the like.
3. You have a very very very slim chance of finding someone that will sponsor you. Your other chance is there are some businesses in the US that will employ you in the right-seat, to be located somewhere around and fly business jets around. The only catch is the $40000US upfront for the training. You do get paid during this time though.

I hope this helps a little, if you want to ask about anything else, email away!

[inverted flatspin]

As far as the immigration goes I have some experience, I used to have a green card but now posess a US passport. While it is technically possible to be sponsored for a work visa (H-type) as a pilot it is very unlikley the best way is to work for the same company abroad and then get an internal company transfer to a US base which would include the H-? Visa. Alternativley you could immigrate to the US in another profession and as soon as able apply for a change of status with the INS this is effectivley a green card application, it takes a few years but can be done. At the moment a possibility exists to get sponsored as a flight instructor. After two years you can apply for the adjustment of status and two years or so later your green(actually pink) card will arrive.

[Roadtrip]

Lots of recip GA jobs - instructing, banner towing, and especially freight. All pay dismally, but it's flying time and experience. Minimum for the regional airlines has dropped to 1000TT/200ME and there are quite a few guys getting hired at minimums. Some go directly to RJs. As an Aussie, the problem is getting the "right to work" (green card). Find yourself a nice American girl and settle down in the US. For some reason the American women seem to like you guys. If you're going to take our jobs, you might as well take our women too!! :)

There's lots of ex-pat Aussies and Kiwis working over here, but to be eventually competive for a U.S. major you'll need a university degree also.

Good luck. Cheers mate.