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dartagnan
15th Mar 2008, 19:16
when you don't have the right to have your religion, except be a communist, and finish in jail because you think to much about freedom.
Don't you think it is time to boycott chinese products and their games???


I am sick of China...

SilentHandover
15th Mar 2008, 19:18
OK if you say so, so now how do I choose between pizza or curry for post rugby food?

Speedpig
15th Mar 2008, 19:23
Do Chinese politics affect your aviation livlihood?
Just for the record, my wife is Chinese.... should I boycott her?

Jimmy Riddle
15th Mar 2008, 19:24
Petrol is 1.10+ a litre.
Nazi's run airport security.
Speed camera cash cows are everywhere.
Scottish Gas doubling it's prices.
Booze prices look set to rise....again.
House prices set to crash.
Maybe it's time to boycott the UK ???

:E

Just a spotter
15th Mar 2008, 21:29
If you don't agree with the Chineese Government/State policies leading up to the games, then pressure either your government, National Olymipc Committee or write a letter to your local branch of a the company who is a main line sponsor telling the you will no longer purchase their products/services.

The official sponsors are

http://en.beijing2008.cn/90/53/column211995390.shtml

and it should be easy enough for you to identify your local governmental representitivie or National Olympic Committe.

JAS

Avman
15th Mar 2008, 21:42
er......am I still on PPRuNe :confused:

dartagnan
15th Mar 2008, 22:56
chinese government is trying to shut down pprune, cuz i said we should ban them...:yuk:

chinese governemnt is run by monkeys....all they do is torture journalists, and you may be the next...

I wont see the game this summer.
:=


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

McCartney's solo boycott of China

Beatle condemns 'barbaric' trade in dog and cat fur


Adrian Addison and David Smith (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/davidsmith)
The Observer (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/),
Sunday November 27 2005
Article history About this article

Close
This article appeared in the Observer (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver) on Sunday November 27 2005 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/2005/nov/27) on p15 of the News (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/2005/nov/27/observermain/uknews) section. It was last updated at 02:10 on November 27 2005.


Paul McCartney has angrily denounced China and vowed never to perform there after seeing 'horrific' undercover film of dogs and cats being brutalised and then killed for their fur.The former Beatle condemned images of the animals being killed in a fur market in the Guangzhou region of southern China, adding that he intends to stay away from the 2008 Beijing Olympics. He and his wife, Heather, a committed animals right supporter, also urged people to boycott Chinese goods, which drew a sharp response from the Chinese embassy in London.
In the film, shot for the People for the Ethical treatment of Animals (Peta) campaign group, dogs and cats are pictured being thrown from the top deck of a converted bus on to concrete pavements. The screaming animals, many with their paws now smashed from the fall, are then lifted up with long metal tongs and thrown over a 7ft fence.
Some are beaten by laughing workers. All are then killed and skinned for their fur. Many are believed still to be alive as their skins are peeled away.
The McCartneys looked close to tears as they watched the footage for a special report on BBC1's Six O'Clock News, to be screened tomorrow night. 'This is barbaric. Horrific,' Paul McCartney said. 'It's like something out of the Dark Ages. And they seem to get a kick out it. They're just sick, sick people.
'I wouldn't even dream of going over there to play, in the same way I wouldn't go to a country that supported apartheid. This is just disgusting. It's against every rule of humanity.'
In another piece of harrowing footage, shot by an undercover investigator connected to Peta, cats are seen squirming inside a sack, which is then thrown into a vat of steaming water. They are boiled to death and skinned by a fleecing machine.
Campaigners estimate that more than two million dogs and cats are killed for their fur in China every year. The rapidly expanding economic giant, which also farms animals such as mink for their fur, makes over half of the world's fur products.
The comments by McCartney will come as a blow for his Chinese fans - the Beatles are hugely popular in the world's most populous state.
'People think because China is going to host the Olympics then they must be coming into the modern world, but then you see this sort of stuff,' he said. 'Surely the authorities there must realise how bad this looks? How can the host nation of the Olympics be seen allowing animals to be treated in this terrible way?
'If they want to consider themselves a civilised nation, they're going to have to stop this.'
The footage also provoked fierce criticism from Heather Mills McCartney. 'I don't understand why they don't at least treat them humanely,' she said. 'Why do they have to torture them in this way? What do they get out of it? They're not even killed cleanly. I've seen so much footage where these poor creatures are clearly alive when they're skinned. And for what? For fashion? It's sick.
'People in every other country in the world should now boycott Chinese goods. If we can hit them in their pockets, maybe they'll do something to stop this.'
China's embassy in Britain strongly rejected the McCartneys' claims. A spokesman said: 'I have not seen this footage so am yet to be convinced of its authenticity. The distribution of the fur trade happens mostly in the European and American markets, so the fashion industries in Europe and America are to be at least partly blamed for this. I do not agree with the call for a boycott of Chinese goods. Sir Paul should be calling for a boycott of the fashion industry using fur in the European and American markets.'

411A
15th Mar 2008, 23:29
The rest of the world does not care a hoot what PMcC says....or does.:ugh:

Spaz Modic
15th Mar 2008, 23:33
:p It's Choina - There's a lot of rabbits, in CHOINA. :8

PA38-Pilot
15th Mar 2008, 23:49
And why is this post in the "Romours and News" forum...?

llondel
16th Mar 2008, 00:06
And why is this post in the "Romours and News" forum...?

Because a moderator has yet to spot it and move it to Jet Blast?

VH-MLE
16th Mar 2008, 02:31
What does Paul McCartney think of fox hunting? Does he refuse to perform in the UK? Also, what about other countries whose people brutally slaughter animals eg Canada (seal clubbing), Japan (whaling) etc. Does he refuse to perform in those countries too? No country (or none that I can think of anyway) is innocent of this sort of behaviour.

VH-MLE

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
16th Mar 2008, 02:44
Don't you think it is time to boycott chinese products and their games???
Well I guess so - if you're ok with paying more than five pounds for a pair of shoes. However if you want to carry on paying the same prices for products, then you'd better not boycott China.

Two's in
16th Mar 2008, 03:08
Excellent sense of the melodramatic here - never mind the acts of genocide against pro-democracy students in Tiananmen or using Buddhist Monks to lubricate tank tracks in Tibet, but the moment we can prove they are cruel to animals our sense of outrage and indignation is complete! Makes you proud to be a hypocrite.

BlueWolf
16th Mar 2008, 03:27
Ah yes, the good old Chinese.

Thanks to China and her insatiable appetite for minerals (driven mostly by our own insatiable appetite for consumer goods), we in the West enjoy the benefits of the profits from mining.

Thanks to China and her p1ss-poor human rights record, including slave labour wages, we in the West may enjoy the benefits of those same consumer goods at very low prices.

Thanks to China and her continuing massive economic expansion, we in the West may be thankful that our Western banking system and economies haven't fallen over yet.

Thanks to China and her growing military threat, we in the West may enjoy the benefits of our own military-industrial complex and its ever-advancing technologies.

Thanks to China and her complete disregard for the environment, we in the West may enjoy the benefits of many an industrial product, the manufacture of which we have long since banned ourselves because it's too dangerous and horribly polluting.

Thanks to China and her attitude towards idiots (read: Tibet), we have proof that unarmed pacifism doesn't work (take note, New Zealand).

Bl00dy Chinese. Fancy showing up our hypocrisy like that. Yes, let's boycott their silly games. That'll show them.

BlueDiamond
16th Mar 2008, 03:51
chinese government is trying to shut down pprune, cuz i said we should ban them...
Yeah. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!!! And they would do this ... how exactly? :rolleyes:

ehwatezedoing
16th Mar 2008, 04:06
Buying PPrune !? :p

blackace
16th Mar 2008, 04:19
all they do is torture journalists

They got something right then.

tinpis
16th Mar 2008, 04:27
Do they do lawyers as well then?

Wiley
16th Mar 2008, 05:03
Can I play devil's advocate here for a moment?

Firstly, anyone who does not know the history of modern China before 1949 would do well to take a troll through Wikipedia. ("Warlords" might be a good word to start with.) Having done so, ask yourself how many Chinese would want a return to those pre-1949 days (even allowing for the undeniably huge mistakes and absolutely terrible things the Communists did). For those who don't know modern China's history pre-1949 and can't be bothered to look it up, think Jugoslavia/Kosovo/Bosnia 1993-95 and multiply that by one thousand - or even one million.

So let's, for a moment, play "imagine"....

...imagine if that incredibly brave young man who faced down the tank in Tiananmen Square had won and the central government had collapsed in 1989?

...imagine China in a state of near anarchy, with every man, (after 60 years of no freedom at all), having his own idea of what 'freedom' represented? (If there's anyone out there who doesn't think the country would have descended into a state of total chaos for quite some years had the central government fallen, you have a far more optimistic outlook on life than I have.)

...imaginewhat a different world it would be today outside China if China had descenced into a state of anarchy post 1989?

...imagine, rather than a huge influx of cheap Chinese goods flooding into the West since 1989, it had been millions - possibly many millions - of Chinese refugees pouring across the borders to escape the inevitable fighting and fragmentation that would have taken place?

The Chinese Government has resorted to - and continues to resort to - measures to maintain the status quo in their country that I'm extremely glad I don't have to live under and that I suspect 99.9% of Westerners would agree would be totally unacceptable to them. However, as unpalatable as this fact is, I think we all need to at least ask ourselves what the alternative would entail.

tinpis
16th Mar 2008, 05:15
We even got a Chinese PM

Tigs2
16th Mar 2008, 05:27
As far as PPRuNe is concerned they can do what they did to youtube (where all the video evidence is there for all to see), i.e the site is simply blocked to anyone within China. I don't think that will make much difference to PPRuNe somehow.


For those complaining about Human rights I agree. However the following should not be permitted in any society these days/

The following video is what all the fuss is about. Once you are there you can browse through other related items to your hearts content.

BE WARNED!! THE FOLLOWING LINK MUST NOT BE WATCHED WITH CHILDREN IN THE ROOM. IT IS UPSETTING AND GRAPHIC. DO NOT WATCH BEFORE YOUR SUNDAY BREAKFAST OR LUNCH. IT DEPICTS SOME OF THE CRUELTY TOWARDS ANIMALS IN CHINA. I HOPE THAT FUR COAT KEEPS YOU WARM IN WINTER!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OO7pnx422Cg


It gives you an idea of what that mindset is capable of doing to Humans. Unsurprisingly there is not much video of that though.

Speedpig
16th Mar 2008, 07:53
There's oil in China..... China's annual crude oil output could surpass 200 million tons by 2020.
Maybe George W should be taking an interest.

hellsbrink
16th Mar 2008, 07:57
What I don't understand is the sudden outrage at China when they are only doing what they have done for decades without any interference......

Speedpig
16th Mar 2008, 07:59
Anyone ever been to a UK abattoir?

Tigs2
16th Mar 2008, 08:10
Speed Pig
yep!

They kill the animals before skinning them and cutting off their limbs.


hellsbrink

What I don't understand is the sudden outrage at China when they are only doing what they have done for decades without any interference......

In the past China have just told the world to ram it when they try to interfere. With the publicity of the Olympics now, they will have to listen and respond. They may still say ram it, but it will become more difficult over the next 2-3 months.

hellsbrink
16th Mar 2008, 08:32
Won't make much of a difference, Tigs, they have been carrying out assorted "atrocities" ever since they were awarded the olympics so I can't see them giving a monkey's now.

They'll still tell the world to ram it, and fill the stadiums with enough people to make it look good even if every furrin spectator boycotted the games. And you ain't going to see countries banning their athletes from attending either.

ORAC
16th Mar 2008, 08:36
They could start frying babies in oil and the UK won't say a word. Too scared of retribution over the London Olympics in 2012.

hellsbrink
16th Mar 2008, 08:43
And that is before we consider their financial clout, ORAC

Solid Rust Twotter
16th Mar 2008, 08:51
Usual Western hypocrisy then. There is no doubt the Chinese have many practices for which they should be sanctioned and boycotted, but at the same time the glaring failures of the West in fostering Western style democracy in places not suited to that ideal and then ignoring the results should be ringing warning bells.

Speedpig
16th Mar 2008, 09:00
Tigs,
I was more referring what happens before they actually die.
It's not comparable to the sickening scenes in the video of course, but I imagine if more people did visit an abattoir, there would be a lot more vegetarians.

Flying Binghi
16th Mar 2008, 09:47
I wonder how much money the cameraman paid to get the film He wanted ?

Tigs2
16th Mar 2008, 10:00
Flying Binghi

Leave it off!

hellsbrink
16th Mar 2008, 10:03
Tigs, that isn't the famous stunt set up by an artist you are referring to, is it? The one where it was claimed a baby was boiled and then he sat down to eat it?

hellsbrink
16th Mar 2008, 10:16
Can't be that easy, can't even find anything quickly on google

Tigs2
16th Mar 2008, 10:21
I will have a look. I saw them about 1 year ago. With any luck Youtube have got rid of them.

Hellsbrink, I will delete my last two posts until I can find said items and substantiate the claim. I am sure you understand. Thanks

hellsbrink
16th Mar 2008, 10:36
I only querying it because there was an email hoax that went around the world claiming this, and it culminated in another one of Berlusconi's famous gaffes.

Flying Binghi
16th Mar 2008, 12:42
Tigs2, I thought it was a fair question.... after all this thread seems to be about condeming an entire country.

Tigs2
16th Mar 2008, 13:12
Not at all Flying Binghi. I like others am not condemning the whole of China, simply condemning both Human and animal atrocities that are taking place, by a fraction of the population. Considering the profile of the Olympics and the fact that China is now at the center of the worlds stage, it is a perfect time for the Chinese authorities to do something about it. Why do you think the Tibetans are protesting/rioting now? It is not just lucky timing.


Furthermore, how can you have been asking a fair question when you are asking how much the cameraman paid the farmers to 'get the video he wanted'. That is pure conjecture, and if you research all the links associated with that video, you will see the number of different videos of inhumane treatment of both humans and animals is huge. It is also near impossible for me to have any idea of the answer to your question, even if it were phrased in a valid way, therefore it cannot be a fair question.

hellsbrink
16th Mar 2008, 13:19
Well, Tigs, the situation in Tibet has been slowly boiling up for a while now as more and more Chinese are moved there, taking jobs, etc, from the locals. It was always a matter of time before that kicked off so I doubt it has much to do with the Olympics per se.

Tigs2
16th Mar 2008, 13:30
hellsbrink

gotta disagree. The Dalai lama has been waiting for this moment for 50 years. That is how long this has been brewing, and this is the perfect time to bring the politics of Tibet to the world media. All eyes are watching China, and if they come down to heavy handed it will have dire consequences. If the Dalai lama ever had one opportunity to negotiate the return of Tibet it is this year and this year only. Infact probably only over the next 4 months.

hellsbrink
16th Mar 2008, 13:39
Then why is he urging "No Boycott", etc?

It's been a build up of frustration which has overflowed in a big way as it's only been in relatively recent times that the Chinese government started sending Chinese nationals in, built a rail line there, etc.

Tigs2
16th Mar 2008, 13:59
hellsbrink,

Chinese nationals have been in there for a long time. Why do you think the Dalai Lama is urging 'no boycott'? He will stay on the side of good, and will not call for anything that would cause any 'spiritual' damage or ill-will to anyone else on the planet, be it athlete or anyone else. If he wins HE will do so peacefully, without malice. He tries to calm his people and indeed his monks. The only way for him to meet his goal as he sees it, is by intellectual argument and appealing for compassion. He does not believe that holding the Chinese government to ransom is a way to success. As far as he sees it he only really wins if there is an acceptance of his argument and a subsequent withdrawal from Tibet.

hellsbrink
16th Mar 2008, 14:07
There has been a far greater influx of Chinese in recent times, stoking the tensions, as well as other actions.

But I still stand by my comment regarding the protests having nothing to do with the Olympics, these protests kicked off on the anniversary of the 1959 uprising. Little wonder tensions are high.

On a side note, I notice nobody is saying anything regarding the detention and beatings of Tibetans in exile in India and Nepal who wished to hold their own protests....

Tigs2
16th Mar 2008, 14:14
hellsbrink

I agree totally with your last comment. I was going to put a comment in my last post to the effect of 'sadly there appears to be many Indian henchmen doing the job of the chinese authorities', but went to make a brew mid post and forgot. I cannot fathom out why the Indians are taking such a strong stance against the Tibetan protestors, particularly as they have provided safe haven for the Dalai Lama for 50 years:confused::confused:

matt_hooks
16th Mar 2008, 15:06
As an aside, regarding the videos of animal cruelty...

PETA are a somewhat shady organisation. I have seen, first hand, some of their methods. Just look at some of the things that they've been caught out on in the past few years in the UK.

Videos about game shooting, where shot birds have been stolen and buried in order to be "discovered" by them, as a method of provoking outrage.

The hunt saboteurs, basically organised thugs who were quite prepared to hurt horses, hounds and riders.

I am not suggesting that the videos are staged, but in any case it is possible to find bad practice. Just look at the preparation of halal and kosher meat, that's not very pleasant either. However to take one instance, and then to expand it, and suggest that it's common practice, is deceitful at best, down right fraudulent at worst.

As for China and the human rights, I think the Dalai Lama has pitched his stall brilliantly. He can do nothing but win. If the chinese government commits a massive volte face and withdraws (highly unlikely I'm sure you'll agree) then he wins, and if they don't, but continue their occupation of Tibet, with the repression of the monasteries, then he has gained the moral high ground and a massive international bargaining position.

However, I can't see the average man on the street boycotting Chinese products, or the products of Olympic sponsor companies. I'm afraid that in the most part the lower cost will prevail over any ethical thoughts. I'm afraid the average punter, worried about stretching the pound in his pocket, will have little time to assess the ethical implications of their purchase, or inclination to choose something more expensive when a cheaper option is available.

Beatriz Fontana
16th Mar 2008, 15:39
Sport and politics have always been close friends.

I doubt any Western government would sanction a boycott simply because of the financial costs China would throw back at them. We all like our cheap goods, and how many of those are made in China?

It's all very well making grand statements at key events, but revolution starts at the grass roots. Boytcott anything made in China. Don't watch the Olympics so the ratings take a nose dive. Don't buy anything that talks about the Olympics in China. Lobby your MP to do the same.

airship
16th Mar 2008, 16:52
This is an interesting thread. And to me has little to do with the Olympics in Beijing, much more to do with important cultural divides and perhaps also an involuntary Alzheimer-like mindset about one's own past and/or antecedendents...?

Ever since I've had a PC and the internet, there's probably very little that I have not yet seen. I call it a God-like compulsion and perhaps why I'm a "glass half-full" sort of person, as someone recently referred to me on JB.

So far as animal cruelty is concerned, I've obviously watched all those videos about Chinese dogs and cats. I remember seeing an animal (not a cat or dog) being entirely skinned and watching this animals's eyes afterwards confirming that it was still alive and very aware (and obviously in great pain).

The Chinese as a people or race are not all devoid of any sense of pity or empathy. The peasants who do this and handle the animals probably know little else. Given time and resources, their children might learn better. Provided that is, the demand (perhaps also from Europe etc.) for their wares declines - given a choice, who would prefer to work 10 hours in such circumstances compared to working the same in an office or modern factory...?!

I'm a meat-eater, love my meat, am descended from a long line of meat-eaters. I'd prefer to eat "tough" animals who've lived awhile, instead of all this farmed crap. But unless I could afford my own 1,000 acre+ private estate, I'll just have to get used to eating whatever my supermarket (and the huge retail-agricultural complex) are willing to sell me.

Of course, it wouldn't be such a problem if only there weren't quite so many of us (humans) striving to simply live and survive today. I'd dearly love to have humans wearing exotic fur coats nowadays simply shot on sight, or at least during a government-approved "open-season" except when promenading in Vladivostok or equivalent.

Boycott the Chinese, or the Olympics as you wish. Only you have very little to do with any of it. I prefer praying for a couple of asteroids 5-8km to hit soon. :ok:

VFE
16th Mar 2008, 23:29
You can analyse the past and the reasons for this civil unrest but nothing, repeat nothing, can excuse a government killing its people for voicing their views. It is made all the more worse that it is happening as the western world prepares to pitch up in town bringing sporting goodwill. It disgusts me!

I for one will support a boycott of all things olympic until this situation is dampened and if any British athletes wish to stay at home I will be 100% behind them and hold them in greater esteem than if they won A THOUSAND gold medals.

VFE.

henry crun
17th Mar 2008, 03:14
I will be surprised if any athletes boycott the olympics, and I feel quite sure that the chances of China withdrawing for Tibet are zero, they could not contemplate the loss of face.

tinpis
17th Mar 2008, 04:45
I like Chinese (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QoA44c23A)http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/chinaman.gif

Sunray Minor
17th Mar 2008, 11:20
Hencry Crun,

There would be a far greater loss of face from a mass boycott of the Olympics. A threat to do so, with much more private wrangling in the background, could be very effective. As I've said elsewhere, the Olympics is the China's opening ceremony and is all about PR (something the Chinese don't normally have to bother with).