Why did Qantaslink get Q400's?

[7378FE]

Hi there

Virgin Blue orders a load of small jets (which a lot of pilots want to fly) , Qantaslink orders a load of small props (which no one is intersted in).

Dateline 4th Feb 2008:

1st DJ E-170 departure from Canberra to Sydney, Chockers
1st QF departure from Canberra to Sydney - CANCELLED :hmm:

1st DJ E170 flight SYD-PQQ-SYD ops on time, despite crappy weather at PQQ, The QF flight into PQQ went elsewhere (CFS?) and the Virginblue passengers waved at the QF passengers in the departure lounge, the QF passengers being stuck there as a result of PQQ becoming a jet airport and you cannot leave the secure area after screening.

Cheers
7378FE

[TROJAN764]

To be fair, the Q400 was probably the best acft for the job at the time Qantas started looking (and no, I don't fly them) - they just introduced it five years too late!

[apacau]

Much as I'd love for it to be a success, the numbers on DJ's SYD-CBR services are far from flash at this stage...

[Icarus53]

Then there's just the minor issue of having a common type rating (although the differences are enough to restrict you to type operationally). This not only affect pilots but engineering, cabin crew etc.

I don't see how the aircraft type would have any effect on whether they got in at PQQ? I've had plenty of other aircraft go around in front of and behind me a PQQ, and vice versa. Regardless, the PQQ services aren't Q400 (yet)!

[KABOY]

Actually QF had the 146 on a number of these routes for years, but as with all boardroom decisions the economics of the Q400 came out miles ahead and made any future replacement look EXTREMELY expensive.

The Q400 would be operating on routes where the 737 wasn't economical and DJ were only running the trunk routes.

For VB to gain some ground on routes they haven't touched till now, they needed something that was more PR than anything else to try and lure the frequent flyers.

Once you have them onboard, you have their business over the entire network!

[Going Boeing]

The answer to the question obviously is:- The Q400s have a significantly lower seat mile cost than any equivalent size jet aircraft and thus can be profitable with a lower load factor.

Having said that, at the time QF ordered Q400s, I said that DJ would order the Embraer as they had an opportunity to gain market share from QF Link because of pax preference for jets. It will be interesting to see if Frequent Flyer loyalty programs along with "near jet-like speed" of the Q400 will be sufficient for QF Link to retain market share on the routes where they go head to head

[Torres]

City-centric thinking again?

Can't see DJ operating Embraers into Roma, Charleville, Blackall, Barcaldine, Horn Island, Weipa and a number of low density coastal routes/ports in NSW and Queensland.

There is more to Australia than the East Coast cities you know!

I would also think the DHC8 Q400 seat/mile costs and break even load factor may be far lower than the Embraer jet.

[Mr. Hat]

Cheaper to run i'd say and i don't think people sit around a board room and discuss which plane will attract pilots.

The other factor is that Q has a lot of govt work and thus the bum is on the seat make sure its cheap to run i guess.

[TROJAN764]

I suspect that the current problem is not whether the Q400 is the right aircraft for the job or not. More likely, if there will be enough 'suitable' pilots available to fly it. By all accounts, it is a lovely aircraft to fly but, for their own reasons, a significant number of experienced captains and FOs have indicated that they will not be bidding for positions when they come available. Hence those who are interested are largely the pilots with less experience than one would expect to be appointed to a new type - I'm not suggesting that they are not competent to operate the aircraft, just that many of the more experienced pilots will be bypassed of their own volition.

[xxgoldxx]

Its the same ol...same ol...!!

The people they want to fly Q400 aircraft only want to fly it until they get jet jobs..

the people that would be happy to fly the Q400 the airline dont want..!

Give the average late starter decent pay and a decent base you will have them for 20 years...

Give the average up and comer everything they want and they will (generally) leave for the jet anyway.... :cool:

[DraggingAir]

The Q400 is profitable with a lower load factor, certainly, but I think that at the end of the day, most passengers prefer the appeal of jets.

Passengers don't make bookings based on which aircraft has the superior operating economics. That would be a bit like going to the cinema and choosing what film to watch based on whether it came in on budget or not.

[Kangaroo Court]

....yeah, but you'd rush to park the car and make it in for the early show if you knew it was sold at half price. Price drives everything and most passengers would not know one aircraft from another at time of ticketing. The Q400 is an excellent aircraft. Although I've only been on one as a passenger it was the only prop' I've ever fallen asleep on!

[Icarus53]

a significant number of experienced captains and FOs have indicated that they will not be bidding for positions when they come available

This is a very interesting element of the Q400 intro onto the NSW network. Note that this is not such an issue in QLD where the drivers know that Q400 flying is not markedly different from "classic" fleet (I hate the term "sustaining") - you still get similar routes and overnights.

SYD based Q400 flying is a different matter though - SYD-CBR only at the moment, with no communication from management as to when this will change and how. The CBR crewing problem has put expansion onto other routes on hold as SYD crews backfill CBR based flying. If management wants to get more people onto the type they should be putting the message out on their plans with the type and then achieve those plans!

Other issues making the type unpalatable for SYD crews are:

C&T Captains not guaranteed C&T positions (will therefore lose money in the transfer)

FOs frozen onto type for 18 months - therefore if you expect to get comd in that timeframe, it's best not to bid for it as you could miss your comd slot when it comes up. (Strangely, this is again an EAA only problem - doesn't exist in the SSA contract).

Three big issues that affect who and how many pilots they get for the Q400 - funnily enough very easy problems for management to solve. I wonder if anyone will get the hint!

Sun's bright today - watch out for those wings!

Icarus

[DeafStar]

In Cairns the captains who are in the slot to go to the Q400 are mostly saying they will stay on the classic. The Q400 does no overnights and generaly longer days. Due to no type freeze some have said that bidding back to the classic is looking good.