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View Full Version : Gold Hits $1000 per Ounce and Ethiopia will not be cashing in! Funny Con.


Tigs2
13th Mar 2008, 17:54
How funny is this. Ethiopia try and pay off some large debt to South Africa by sending gold bullion from the central bank, only to have it returned, as it was found out to be gold plated steel!:D:D It now turns out there is quite a large amount of gold plated steel ingots in the Ethiopian central bank. Whoops!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7294665.stm

candoo
13th Mar 2008, 18:11
In a former life I worked in a gold refinery and we would regularly get largish tins arrive from Ethopia labelled up as white paint.

Was gold granules coated in white emulsion we had to refine it to bullion whilst somebody, somewhere benefitted from this.

I remember stories at the time that gold was not permitted to exported out of the country and this was a front. Although one would hope that even a cursory examination by the authorities would have revealed something fishy was afoot - they were bloody heavy tins of paint!

Tigs2
13th Mar 2008, 18:29
Did you not ever try and walk out with a tin saying it was to do your front room?

candoo
13th Mar 2008, 18:42
The security at work was, shall we say, tight.

Most succesful method of knicking gold (or so I heard) was to catapult it out of the grounds to a waiting accomplice - obviously small pieces at a time!

Back on thread - gold traditonally rose in price just before times of worldwide crisis as people regard gold as a very tangible asset and has long term stability relative to other markets.

bnt
13th Mar 2008, 18:44
What's the betting they'll embark on some slow and expensive assay process, when all they need for a quick check of an ingot is:
- a set of accurate scales
- a container with an accurate volume scale, partly filled with water
- a calculator
That won't be Greek to anyone here, I assume. :8

Tigs2
13th Mar 2008, 18:58
Fraid I would want a hacksaw as well!

Widger
13th Mar 2008, 19:07
So glad Gordumb sold a load of ours off a few years ago!

tony draper
13th Mar 2008, 19:27
Gold ingots are a right bastard to try and cut up wi a hacksaw,err hmmm,one berra not reveal how one knows this.:ooh:

Sailor Vee
13th Mar 2008, 19:45
So glad Gordumb sold a load of ours off a few years ago!Could it be that Gordumb actually sold them a few duffies.... nah, he's not that bright!:E

Forkandles
13th Mar 2008, 20:24
Did Ethiopia have all this 'gold' in it's vaults when Sir Gob Beldoff and his little mate were shaking their tins in the 80's?

Governments, of all nations, are just a bunch of shysters.

hellsbrink
13th Mar 2008, 20:31
Don't forget that a chunk of the money collected by the tin rattlers kinda ended up buying Mercs filled with Kalashnikovs and crates of scotch...

dontpickit
13th Mar 2008, 20:42
One of the best ripping yarns about gold is Ric Wharton's 'Salvage of the Century' - £50M (early 1980's value) worth of ingots recovered from HMS Edinburgh, 800 feet down in the Barents Sea.

Who was waiting for them on their triumphant return to Peterhead? The vat man - to collect uk.gov's 'share', suddenly increased, breaking a previous agreement. Not so much as a thank you from UK officialdom either.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Gold_ingots.jpg/300px-Gold_ingots.jpg

tony draper
13th Mar 2008, 20:43
Gold is funny stuff,its not really much use for anything apart from Jewelry and plating circuit boards ect,they dig it out of one hole in the ground then stash it back into another hole in the ground,it's sometimes taken from that hole in the ground transfered to another country then quickly stored into a hole in the ground in that country.
Hmmm, wonder how often it is assayed once it's in circulation,can't be that often or each bar would finish up full of wee holes drilled for assay samples,how do we know those few gold bars that Gordo left behind in the vaults of the bank of England are not gold plated lead ingots?
I remember the teacher telling us sprogs that all Englishman were entitled to go to the Bank of England,slap down his pound note on the counter and demand a small lump of gold in exchange for same,as in Promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of ect ect writ large on every banknote, hmmm wonder how that works now.
:rolleyes:

helimutt
13th Mar 2008, 20:58
No doubt mr Brown will find some way of taxing the purchase of gold. He'll remove the ability to buy 'once' legal tender gold coins vat/tax free.

You watch!

Parapunter
13th Mar 2008, 21:02
Hmmm, remember reading somewhere that the entire amount of gold in the world would create a cube the size of Trafalgar square. One has an ounce in the form of a Krugerrand somewhere - me dad romantically bought me & me bruvver one for our 21st's, the idea being that we could always trade it for passage home wherever we were in the world.

Trouble is, me mum hid it away somewhere & hasn't been able to find it in the last sixteen years. Course most of the worlds gold is dissolved in the briny. Prolly a good idea to set the boffs onto building a gelt filter.

bnt
13th Mar 2008, 22:02
Hmmm, wonder how often it is assayed once it's in circulation,can't be that often or each bar would finish up full of wee holes drilled for assay samples,how do we know those few gold bars that Gordo left behind in the vaults of the bank of England are not gold plated lead ingots?
Well, like I was trying to joke about earlier, you can do a density check on an ingot, which will show if it's made of steel, lead, or anything else. Weigh it, measure its volume from the amount of water it displaces, and calculate its density. No need to drill holes to spot all but the most sophisticated fakes.

Steel: around 7.8 g/cm³ depending on composition
Lead: 11.34 g/cm³
...
Tungsten 19.25 g/cm³
Gold 19.282 g/cm³

So you'd expect a 24 carat gold ingot to have a density of 19.282 g/cm³. Lead or Steel are so far below this that the difference would stand out straight away. Tungsten, on the other hand... I wonder? :8

tony draper
13th Mar 2008, 22:10
Err surely if one dropped a lead ingot of identical size to a gold ingot it would displace exactly the same amount of water,I could understand if gold and lead floated on water presumably gold being heavier would float lower in the water and therefore displace more water,but it don't float.
:confused:
Anyway the search engine on the new server works fine I remember posting this a long time ago.


A cubic foot of Iron weighs 470 llbs
A cubic foot of Copper weighs 547 llbs
A cubic foot of Lead weighs 710 llbs
A cubic foot of Mercury weighs 847 llbs
A cubic foot of Gold .weighs..1207 llbs
:rolleyes:
So surely those Sarf Ifricans would just have to weigh those bars to know they were snide.

bnt
13th Mar 2008, 22:27
Right - displacement alone is not going to tell you enough, you need the displacement (= volume), and the weight, to calculate the density. Or; if you had a bar of known-good gold, of the same volume, just comparing the weights will tell you a lot.

Archimedes' "Eureka" moment was when he figured out how to tell whether a crown was made of gold: use a scale to measure the same weight of pure gold as the crown, and see if the crown and the gold displaced the same volume of water. It meant that he didn't need to damage the crown to find out if it was gold or fake.

tony draper
13th Mar 2008, 22:33
Interestingly the heaviest cubic foot of anything you could own on Earth would be Osmium.
A 12-inch cube of osmium would weigh about 1345 pounds, or as much as 10 adults, ...or three Americans.
:uhoh::rolleyes:

Newforest2
13th Mar 2008, 22:41
Keep the science lessons coming Tony!:D

G-CPTN
13th Mar 2008, 22:51
What about depleted uranium? I believe that is exceeding heavy.
(Used as ballast on Vulcans? - as well as munition rounds that 'pack a punch'.)

Edited to add:- density of DU 19.1 g/cm3

Oh - and don't forget that steel tends to be attractive to a magnet (or vice versa I suppose).

tony draper
13th Mar 2008, 23:02
Don't think it's as heavy as Osmium,but its feckin good stuff.
single uranium fuel pellet the size of a fingertip contains as much energy as 17000 cubic feet of natural gas, 1780 pounds of coal or 149 gallons of oil. ...

Google has let one down re it's weight per cubic foot, but you would have to be very careful weiging such a lump,yer stick yer half a cubic foot on the scales no problem,then you bring over the other half cubic foot and plonk it alongside the first on the scale and Kaboom!! that's all she wrote folks.
:eek:

G-CPTN
13th Mar 2008, 23:13
WRT recovering precious metals from old computers, can you remember when folks would break into offices just to steal the memory chips from the computers? Like all things in short supply the crims soon found out how to get their hands on them. I wonder if there's some bloke out there with a stash of old computer memory chips, waiting for the prices to rise again? :O

bnt
13th Mar 2008, 23:14
Ah, but which is more expensive: gold, or depleted uranium? Depends on who's buying: if you're selling to the US Military, home of the $1000 hammer, I bet it's the DU. :hmm:

Tigs2
14th Mar 2008, 04:20
In That case if i get the Missus a ring made out of depleted Uranium, will her finger fall off?

According to brits calculations, gold plated tungsten sounds like a real winner, with only a .032g/cm3 (how did you write the '3' bit?) difference. That would have fooled most people i guess.

candoo
14th Mar 2008, 09:56
We used to see quite a few attempts of people using tungsten as a substitute for gold - there is a major flaw.

Customers had to wait for re-melting of their loot and assay values before being paid out. Tungsten just does not melt until about 3400C, whereas gold is about 1100C. They are difficult to alloy and when we saw this you ended up with solid tungsten at the bottom of the crucible and a right mess.

Customers reaction was always - "TUNGSTEN, TUNGSTEN - how the *&*! did that get in there I've been ripped off" used to see this a lot in the small 10 tola bars (about 31g)made for the middle East/Indian market as they are easy to smuggle because they fit snugly into certain orifices.

Happy days eating my sandwiches on top of a stack of gold bullion stamped with Mr Hitlers personal mark - a quick melt, pour and re-stamp - out pops nice new untainted British gold!

tony draper
14th Mar 2008, 10:09
Read somewhere that the Nazi gold still stashed away in Switzerland contains a percentage of mercury from melted down dental work.:uhoh:

G-CPTN
14th Mar 2008, 10:12
What is the weight of a 'standard' gold bullion bar (and its size and notional value)? What volume (stack size) would the equivalent pile of Bank of England notes occupy?
Many years ago I had to transport a large quantity (for me) of cash and took a large briefcase, but the reality turned out to be contained within an envelope (though I did sleep with it under my pillow . . . ).

tony draper
14th Mar 2008, 10:35
Once worked in a small room with what the bloke said was 34 million pounds all around me in heaps,best money pornography I ever saw.
One admits one was tempted,but one would not have got far.
:rolleyes:

chornedsnorkack
14th Mar 2008, 12:33
We used to see quite a few attempts of people using tungsten as a substitute for gold - there is a major flaw.

Customers had to wait for re-melting of their loot and assay values before being paid out. Tungsten just does not melt until about 3400C, whereas gold is about 1100C. They are difficult to alloy and when we saw this you ended up with solid tungsten at the bottom of the crucible and a right mess.

Customers reaction was always - "TUNGSTEN, TUNGSTEN - how the *&*! did that get in there I've been ripped off"

And uranium - depleted, natural or enriched - melts at about 1100 Celsius. Slightly higher than gold, though.

Do they alloy?

Also, does gold absorb many neutrons, when criticality is an issue? The critical mass for unmoderated, unreflected uranium 235 sphere is about 50 kg. The standard gold ingot is about 12,5 kg, and not spherical... but potential reflectors/moderators include water.

At low insertion speeds and in moderated conditions, you cannot produce strong explosions. But a lot of nasty radiation is perfectly feasible, like Slotin or Daghlian cases. And it could go to meltdown.

What is the weight of a 'standard' gold bullion bar (and its size and notional value)? What volume (stack size) would the equivalent pile of Bank of England notes occupy?

An 12,5 kg gold bar must be about 650 cubic cm. Not sure about shape specifications, though. This is about $400 000 now.

What are the biggest pounds now? How many pounds go in a pound?

I think that a note weighs generally about 1 g... but there must be a range between different notes. €250 000 would be 500 €500 notes... so about 500 grams... perhaps similar stack size to the gold bullion bar?

candoo
14th Mar 2008, 12:43
Once worked on a project to try and dope gold with radioactive isotopes so it could be traced to point of origin in case of theft etc....

We decided it was pointless as there is so much skullduggery involved in the black market and gold gets re-melted so often that it would not be long before your doped gold showed up everywhere.

oldshuck
14th Mar 2008, 15:11
just a thought, I was on holiday in Thailand not long ago and saw their golden Buddha. Solid gold and weighs appx 5 1/2 tons!

anyone got a calculator?

pzu
14th Mar 2008, 15:42
My Dad was SATCO at TBO during the the mid '50's

At not infrequent intervals a Dakota (C-47) used to night stop en route from SA (Jo'burg) to Europe - 3 crew overnighted at Railway Hotel, aircraft unattended apart from one airfield night watchman (sleeping)

During this period a not infrequent topic of conversation in the Tabora Club was how to disappear with said C-47 and cargo rumoured to be some 3 Tons (say 6000lbs) of GOLD which in those days of Gold being fixed at $35 an ounce was worth in the region of US$3.3 million!!!

At today's price say US$96 million

DAD why didn't you???? :{


PZU - Out of Africa

Club members at that time included may ex WWII aitcrew - admittedly not current on type - but!!!

iws
14th Mar 2008, 16:57
In another reincarnation, I was once responsible for signing off the transfer of assets from one Research Council to another.

One of the items I handled was the British Standard Pound (weight).

It was a pound of pure platinum!

I confess to having had a momentary thought, but then considered how the heck I was going to sell one pound of platinum, especially as it would be rather difficult to melt down or even hacksaw into pieces.......

(and my signature is still legally binding for the transfer - I hope they don't lose it :().

helimutt
14th Mar 2008, 17:08
so you're saying a pound of gold is heavier than a pound of platinum? :hmm:

chornedsnorkack
14th Mar 2008, 20:42
said C-47 and cargo rumoured to be some 3 Tons (say 6000lbs) of GOLD

3 tons of gold has slightly over 150 litres volume. Even with gaps between the ingots, you should easily stack it all into a 60cm cube crate.

Lifting a 3 t crate would be harder. And what about the floor loading of 3 tons concentrated on 60cmx60cm?

iws
14th Mar 2008, 21:55
The British Standard Pound was, of course, made out of platinum because:

1. It would not corrode (similar to gold)

2. But more importantly, the hardness made it difficult for feckers to scrape bits off.


and, yes, surprisingly, it weighed exactly the same as a pound of gold.;)

tony draper
14th Mar 2008, 23:12
One's researches over this thread have revealed that nowadays Iridium is considered the heaviest metal that occures on earth,and there is another metal who's name one has forgotten already, is so rare that it has been calculated that probably only a single ounce of same exists in the entire Earths crust,big mining job required there then,also there exists theoretical heavy metals called super heavies one of which a single atom of has actually been produced in a cyclotron, if they could produce enough of this substance to actually sit on a scale would be 12 times heavier than gold,sadly one has forgotten the name of this metal as well.
This feckin memory of yours Draper.:(
:rolleyes:

Milt
15th Mar 2008, 00:08
What about the carrots in gold? How do they get there and what are they made of?

Supposed to be 24 carrots to be pure gold perhaps? I think the hardness goes up as the carrots come down!!

So is electrolysis the only way to put all the carrots back into gold alloy?

Panman
15th Mar 2008, 02:21
More importantly, which farms are certified to grow said carrots? How does a farm get certified to grow the carrots that are put into gold?

Now Carats on the otherhand............

candoo
15th Mar 2008, 11:28
but the carrots they use to make diamonds are prolly more expensive than those they use in gold even though you can get different varieties of gold ones.

24 carrot gold being cheaper ounce per ounce than 24 carrots of diamonds, most of the 14 carrot gold comes from the Middle East because their fertiliser is not as good.

Mr D - Iridium is an ugly metal, dull grey, nothing polishes it up and as you say very dense - should be used to make police cars.

tony draper
15th Mar 2008, 11:34
Apparently twer a big lump of Iridium that sent the Dinosaur west as well.:uhoh:

chornedsnorkack
15th Mar 2008, 12:19
Iridium is considered the heaviest metal that occures on earth,and there is another metal who's name one has forgotten already, is so rare that it has been calculated that probably only a single ounce of same exists in the entire Earths crust,big mining job required there then,also there exists theoretical heavy metals called super heavies one of which a single atom of has actually been produced in a cyclotron, if they could produce enough of this substance to actually sit on a scale would be 12 times heavier than gold,sadly one has forgotten the name of this metal as well.

Hard to believe. I should think that the density of superheavies is under 40.

A major topic of speculation: what is the color of roentgenium?

Tigs2
15th Mar 2008, 12:35
Chorne

I think I am correct in saying that many of the superheavies have never been seen. They exist in theory only and require 'manufacturing'.

vaqueroaero
15th Mar 2008, 12:54
I think I am correct in saying that many of the superheavies have never been seen.

Not true. I was at a fast food joint the other day at DFW airport and there were several superheavies to be seen. Luckily I didn't end up sitting next to one on my flight.:ok:

Tigs2
15th Mar 2008, 13:22
Tis True

MacDonalds and Burger King have manufactured a few superheavies:ok:

tony draper
15th Mar 2008, 14:15
Anyway to get back on topic,a urchin once tried to pick me pocket in Ethiopia so this news of these tin gold bars does not supprise me in the least, the wee fecker prolly grew up to be minister of finance, the cuff along the ear one gave him prolly motivated him to change his life get his raggy arse off the street, don a suit and become a real thief in Government.
:)

Impress to inflate
15th Mar 2008, 15:07
The name of the superheavy metal is Americanium. A dull, very heavy element that does not mix well with other elements in close prox to its self. It has a low melting point and flashes over just after melting. It can be very toxic to other.

BenThere
15th Mar 2008, 15:15
Anyone know what happens to black hole matter?

Does it become a new element or contain within itself super diamonds of all its composites?

G-CPTN
15th Mar 2008, 15:20
Americanium:- It occurs in nature in minute quantities in pitchblende and other uranium ores, where it is produced from the decay of neutron-bombarded plutonium, and is the element with the highest atomic number that occurs in nature. It is synthesized in quantity only in nuclear reactors by the bombardment of plutonium with neutrons. Its longest-lived isotope is Am-243, with a half-life of 7,650 years.

tony draper
15th Mar 2008, 15:34
Well if we are leaving Earth Neutronium must be interesting stuff,the material of neutron stars, matter compressed by huge gravity fields stripped of electrons pure neutrons, a teaspoon of which would weigh many millions of tons.
Plastic Tesco bags be no good for bringing that stuff home.
:rolleyes:

BenThere
15th Mar 2008, 16:21
A bullet made of that would pack a wallop. DU would seem a pea-shooter.

Tigs2
15th Mar 2008, 16:43
Ah but how much explosive would you need to fire a 9mm bullet weighing 2 million tons, and could you draw it out yer holster?

chornedsnorkack
15th Mar 2008, 19:28
The name of the superheavy metal is Americanium. A dull, very heavy element that does not mix well with other elements in close prox to its self. It has a low melting point and flashes over just after melting. It can be very toxic to other.

Not true.

Americium is considerably less dense than gold - indeed less dense than quicksilver. Nor is its melting point particularly low - it is much higher than that of plutonium.

iws
15th Mar 2008, 20:10
Someone missed the joke..........................

Solid Rust Twotter
15th Mar 2008, 21:21
...Or decided to ignore the cheap shot.:E

ShyTorque
16th Mar 2008, 01:15
Anyone know what happens to black hole matter?


I just got my council tax bill :*

I could ring them and ask.....

Tigs2
16th Mar 2008, 14:09
iws

he he!!:D:D