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View Full Version : Mystery surrounds death of Manchester police chief Michael Todd


fireflybob
13th Mar 2008, 10:20
Mystery surrounds death of Manchester police chief Michael Todd (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/12/ntodd412.xml)

Maybe it's me being suspicious but was Michael Todd eliminated because he was getting too close to the truth concerning a matter which might embarrass HM Government? The evidence published so far seems very circumstantial - leading police officer in line to head up the Met and then rumours about affairs etc - something doesn't seem to stack up to me!

gingernut
13th Mar 2008, 11:44
What another terrible waste of a talented troubled man.

Radar66
13th Mar 2008, 12:03
Who would take letters to loved ones walking up hill and down dale (or in this case, up the PYG track) with him?

Therefore I believe that it was suicide... :sad:

angels
13th Mar 2008, 12:13
Blimey, conspiracy theories already!

fireflybob
13th Mar 2008, 12:17
Yes, angels I agree with your comment but when you look at the previous track record of HM Government.....cannot remember the guys name but who died in mysterious circumstances with respect to the Iraq issue and weapons of mass destruction?

barry lloyd
13th Mar 2008, 12:18
If there is any truth in what is beginning to appear in the media, i.e. that he was having several affairs, one wonders how much time was being given to policing. He was in Manchester for six years, but the problems of the inner city are still huge. Of course his fellow officers will say good things about him, but it would appear at least one of these affairs was with another policewoman and known about within the force. If this is the case, I can't help wondering why someone in a more senior position did not look into this.

I don't see anything sinister in this; simply a man whose personal life became too much for him, and who realised the consequences once it became public, and knew he would not be able to deal with them.

[QUOTE]But Max Clifford, the publicist, said: "Someone phoned me a week ago and they had a Liverpool or Manchester accent[QUOTE].
I always had faith in Max Clifford as publicist, but anyone in that position who can't tell the difference between a Liverpool and Manchester accent...:ugh:

firefly:

Dr David Kelly is the man you are referring to, I believe. See your point, but different circumstances in this case.

Forkandles
13th Mar 2008, 12:23
I don't see anything sinister in this; simply a man whose personal life became too much for him, and who realised the consequences once it became public, and knew he would not be able to deal with them.


There you go then, no need for an enquiry. Barry Lloyd ME has it all in hand. :E

edusaeanna
13th Mar 2008, 12:56
He was in Manchester for six years, but the problems of the inner city are still huge. Of course his fellow officers will say good things about him

And so will his friends and collegues outside the force, my dad being one of them. It's a sad loss that I very much doubt the media will ever get to the bottom of.

Avitor
13th Mar 2008, 13:01
Robin Cook, remember him, and his views? Left this world from the high plains.

edusaeanna
13th Mar 2008, 13:14
Who wants to take Alistair Darling mountain climbing then? Any volunteers?

sitigeltfel
13th Mar 2008, 13:43
Max Clifford was on his case. I wonder how many have been tipped over the edge when they heard that reptile was sniffing around.

TBirdFrank
13th Mar 2008, 13:50
It appears that the building blocks to this tragedy are all in place now.

Why an affair should lead to drinking yourself into oblivion in a blizzard I do not know.

Poor kids, poor wife, poor country that moralises hypocritically to this final outcome.

angels
13th Mar 2008, 13:57
forkandles - why the sarcasm mate?

It seems to me that barry was merely stating his point of view.

My view is that this guy seems to have been a bit of a philanderer who may well have been on the point of appearing on the front page of some grotty Sunday rag. He took a hike, drunk some gin and died.

Whether or not he meant to kill himself will probably never been known unless there's an actual credible suicide note.

May he RIP wherever he is.

Forkandles
13th Mar 2008, 14:10
forkandles - why the sarcasm mate?

I find that by posting sarcasm it stops me feeling the need to publish my own 'point of view' on a subject I don't know anything about, or have any verifiable facts about, on t'interweb.

Undoubtedly this is a sad event, as it is when anyone goes before their time. But when a report includes an aside about Max Clifford, I try to ignore it.

barry lloyd
13th Mar 2008, 15:15
forkandles:

In the first instance, I was simply stating that I did not see anything sinister in what he had done, i.e. he wasn't driven to what he did in the way that Dr Kelly was. The circumstances are different.
It has been reported that an affair was about to be exposed, and indeed a name has now been mentioned in connection with the incident.
The cause of death is as yet unknown, but the police have released the information that he had written letters and made phone calls/texts to people who were close to him whilst he was out there. Hence my second comment. Since there was no-one else with him, it would seem that his state of mind was indeed disturbed, which is perfectly understandable, and one has to believe that, given the weather at the time, he did not go walking there simply for pleasure. How people deal with this sort of thing varies greatly, as we all know.
Can't see any grounds for sarcasm there myself.

The whole purpose of Jet Blast is for people to post their point of view. You don't have to agree with me, but your sarcasm simply belittles you.

The fact remains that a senior public figure, who is alleged to have been having a number of affairs goes walking alone on one of the highest peaks in the UK during some of the worst weather we have had recently. He has left behind him a terrible mess, which will have to be cleared up - and guess who's going to pay for it? The same people who were paying his salary - you and me.
Spare a thought for the mountain rescue team who had to go up there in appalling weather (too bad for a helicoper even to be considered), to recover his body, at some risk to their own lives.
What is it about people in high public office and affairs - Blunkett, Prescott et al? Is it the 'power' thing?

Farrell
13th Mar 2008, 15:24
An arranged assassination of a key figure in office for example, going against the grain would be organised and, pardon the pun, executed by professionals.

There would be no doubts, no tracks, no suspicions - no reason for questions.

Tidy, clean and well planned. No mistakes.

This was not an arranged killing.

'Chuffer' Dandridge
13th Mar 2008, 15:26
Philanderer or not, I always thought Michael Todd seemed a very switched on copper.

Forkandles
13th Mar 2008, 15:29
... but your sarcasm simply belittles you.


I think you'll find it is big and clever and impresses everyone.

I'll stick my neck out and say I tend to agree with your summation of the 'facts' as presented by the media. My point is, facts and the media don't always go hand in hand. A juicy story and all that? :rolleyes:

flower
13th Mar 2008, 18:59
If an affair doesn't interfere with your Job is it really of public interest ? Some reports are saying the gentleman's wife was told last week of the affair by the other lady's husband thus beating the press to it.
However bad, an affair shouldn't mean a man taking his own life. It could simply have been a walk to clear his mind that sadly went too far , I hope for his children's sake it was. By commenting and by reading the papers I am of course contributing to gossip but I do think it is sad when peoples private lives get splashed over Tabloid newspapers

DX Wombat
13th Mar 2008, 19:10
This (http://www.orange.co.uk/news/topstories/19410.htm?linkfrom=hp3&link=ticker_pos_1_link_2&article=index) from the news agency which still thinks it was a 777 (http://www.itv.com/News/Articles/Man-held-after-Heathrow-security-breach.html) which Greenpeace invaded and decorated a few weeks ago. What on earth has being over the limit for driving got to do with walking? It isn't illegal, although it probably isn't the most sensible thing to do especially in an area such as Snowdonia. RIP.

Krystal n chips
13th Mar 2008, 19:12
The serious bit first. Whatever the causal factors, it's invariably a tragedy for all concerned when an event such as this happens...irrespective of whom the person was in his / her life. So why not leave it to a Coroner to determine the facts as far as possible ?.


The "fun" bit ! :E..... was he "eliminated" :ugh:......to quote the OP's text.

Well yes, in a clearly detailed and planned operation, waiting for precisely the right moment in terms of adverse weather, a fleet of mysterious black 4x4's arrived at the Snowdon railway station and duly ascended the mountain on this route. Another black HGV delivered a special black train to convey those involved in the operation and a number of black helicopters hovered overhead to ensure there was total air exclusion. Hope this supports your, er, theory.:rolleyes:

hellsbrink
13th Mar 2008, 19:18
Got to put things in a way some people can actually comprehend, DX

Beatriz Fontana
13th Mar 2008, 19:33
A word from the Coroner:

"We are hearing this evidence today to get rid of some of the ridiculous stories I have read in the papers and had put to me over the last day."

Just imagine how you'd feel having your private life stretched out all over the tabloids. And not just yours, but those of your family, friends and colleagues.

We'll never know what actually drove him to his death. If it was an affair, we'll never know what drove him to the affair in the first place.

Sometimes the double standards of the media really defy me and make me angry. Then again, it's our fault for buying this rubbish in the first place and encouraging such behaviour.

cats_five
13th Mar 2008, 19:34
Mystery surrounds death of Manchester police chief Michael Todd (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/12/ntodd412.xml)

Maybe it's me being suspicious but was Michael Todd eliminated because he was getting too close to the truth concerning a matter which might embarrass HM Government? The evidence published so far seems very circumstantial - leading police officer in line to head up the Met and then rumours about affairs etc - something doesn't seem to stack up to me!

Have you every been up Snowdon? If he was eliminated whoever did it managed to get him up to the top (or very close to it) without any signs of struggle or injury. So, if he *was* eliminated it was by someone he knew and trusted, who managed to slip him a Micky Finn in his gin.

My own theory is that he didn't actually intend to commit suicide, just get blind drunk somewhere wild, wonderful and beautiful. However getting blind drunk in those cold conditions tend to lead to death...

G-CPTN
13th Mar 2008, 19:36
As a largely irrelevant aside, several jockeys were tested for alcohol prior to today's racing at Cheltenham (yesterday was a day off due to high winds). Apparently, any level above half the driving limit results in being unable to ride that day and any level exceeding the driving limit results in a longer suspension.
Recording the blood alcohol level is a standard test during a post mortem - autopsy for US readers - (though I don't know whether it remains the same as at time of death - I believe that the PM would be at least 24 hours and maybe 36 or even 48 hours 'post mortem').
Any pathologists out there?
(My neighbour is a Home Office Pathologist, but I don't feel like knocking on the door and asking him, though I will the next time I see him.)
My own theory is that he didn't actually intend to commit suicide, just get blind drunk somewhere wild, wonderful and beautiful. However getting blind drunk in those cold conditions tend to lead to death...I believe that the deceased was a 'walker', and as yet there is no identifiable cause of death - though he didn't fall (no trauma).
Manchester police chief Michael Todd did not have a "huge" amount of alcohol in his blood when he died on Snowdon, the coroner said as his inquest began.
The body of Mr Todd, 50, contained 105 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood - above the legal limit for driving of 80 milligrams.
After the details of blood tests were revealed, the coroner, Dewi Pritchard-Jones, asked him: "So, not a huge amount of alcohol then?"
Dr Caslin answered: "No, sir."
There were no injuries on the body, and Mr Todd was fully, although lightly, clothed when found on Snowdon, the inquest at Llangefni, Anglesey, heard.
(More at:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7294994.stm )

sitigeltfel
13th Mar 2008, 21:08
Another sad case to report;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/england/dorset/7294840.stm

G-CPTN
13th Mar 2008, 21:14
Insp Munro, who was married with a young son, was found fully-clothed.Don't you just love the media non-sequiturs?

frostbite
13th Mar 2008, 22:01
"My own theory is that he didn't actually intend to commit suicide"


The letters to his family would rather suggest otherwise.

Flying Lawyer
13th Mar 2008, 23:40
G-CPTN Recording the blood alcohol level is a standard test during a post mortem - autopsy for US readers - (though I don't know whether it remains the same as at time of death Your Home Office Pathologist neighbour will be able to give you a definitive answer but, FWIW, this is my recollection from various cases over the years:

Metabolism of alcohol continues after death. ie It continues to dissipate.
However, the interpretation of alcohol found in post mortem specimens can be complicated by the presense of alcohol produced in the body after death by microbial fermentation.
To minimise the problem, specimens for analysis are taken from a number of sources. Often (usually?), from blood in a peripheral vein (eg the femoral vein in the groin) which is least likely to be affected, from liquid in the eyeball behind the lens (the vitreous - sp?) which remains relatively constant after death provided the eye wasn't injured, and from urine.
If I recall correctly, urine is more reliable than blood if the specimens are taken after death. eg If urine shows negative and blood shows positive, it can be an indication of microbial fermentation after death.
Fermentation is not usually a major problem in the first 24-48 hours following death - longer if the body has been in a cold environment before being discovered.

The body can also produce alcohol if death was preceded by trauma. This can be relevant (for example) in murder cases where it is claimed the victim was intoxicated.

Great care has to be exercised when taking the specimens, and in storage until analysis. The specimens should be refrigerated to minimise the risk of any fermentation continuing.

The above is from memory. I hope it doesn't turn out to be too far from what your friend says!

_____________


Such a shame the media hasn't waited at least until after the funeral before publishing his alleged extra-marital activities.
His poor wife and family now not only have to cope with losing a husband and father, but the embarrassment of national coverage of his alleged behaviour which, if true, falls short of the conduct which earned him widespread respect as a first class police officer. He's dead, but they suffer.

Beatriz Fontana
13th Mar 2008, 23:45
Flying Lawyer,

He's dead, but they suffer.

As is the way, particularly with suicide, I'm afraid.

parabellum
14th Mar 2008, 00:37
Know a lady, (widow), who had a ten year affair with a married senior policeman, she thought she was going to become 'Mrs Senior Policeman', as had been promised, since he claimed he was separated, in all but moving out, 'just waiting for the kids to grow up' etc. etc. As he moved up the ladder he realised that if his affair was exposed and/or he left his wife for another woman his career would stop right there, so dumped the widow. If what has been published is to be believed then it would appear that Mr Todd's career was about to hit the wall.

CoodaShooda
14th Mar 2008, 03:22
Don't get too many people freezing to death in these parts but might this be a case of paradoxical undressing?