QF returns to Argentina.

[Henry Winkler]

That's a long way Non-Stop. Presumably the 744ER.

Qantas Announces Non-Stop Services to Buenos Aires

Latest News
Sydney, 12 March 2008

Qantas announced today it would commence its first ever non-stop services to South America, with flights from Sydney to Buenos Aires* commencing on 24 November, 2008.

Qantas Executive General Manager, Mr John Borghetti, said the airline would operate three return services per week on the route.

"Qantas previously offered one-stop services to Buenos Aires, via Auckland, between 1998 and 2002.

"We have maintained services to South America via our successful codeshare with LAN since then, and this relationship will continue. LAN Argentina is also planning to codeshare on Qantas' new Buenos Aires flights," Mr Borghetti said.

"Qantas' new services will also offer passengers connections to other destinations in South America, including Brazil.

"These network developments will enable us to grow business and leisure travel to and from Argentina and strengthen tourism and trade links between Australia and South America."

Qantas will operate its new services with B747-400 aircraft on Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays.

* subject to regulatory approval.

Issued by Qantas Corporate Communication (Q3739)
Email: [email protected]

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

I thought Jetstar were going to operate the Qantas liesure routes. Maybe Jetstar will eventually get A380's? :bored:

[Capt Kremin]

I would suggest it is the arrival of the A380's in QF that is freeing up -400's to do other things.

[ebt]

Thanks to the mining boom, there's a lot of traffic between South America and Australia which isn't for leisure. I wouldn't see Jetstar ever doing that one - they're much happier playing in Asia-Pacific.

[SkyScanner]

Does that mean no more Santiago?

[speedbirdhouse]

I heard it suggested somewhere that QF were considering shuttles between Buenos Aires and Santiago.

Sounds implausible to me.

[noip]

hmmm

syd-eze (http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=syd-eze&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=&PATH-UNITS=nm&PATH-MINIMUM=&SPEED-GROUND=500&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=) .... 6366nm ... nearly 300nm shorter than syd-lax. Any -400 should be able to do it eze.

N

[Transition Layer]

I think coming back the other way might be the problem though.

Headwinds at the lower latitudes would be a lot stronger than LAX-SYD which spends the majority of the flight in the relatively light winds of the tropics.

SYD-JNB at 5963nm is probably a better comparison. The standard -400s fly that route but it can be a bit tight, particularly if there's TEMPO TS on Joburg.

[Pedalz]

The last time the 400's went in they were weight limited on MLW and MTOW and thats why they stopped. Have the Argentinians changed their minds on it?

[lemod]

MENDAERO

I think he was referring to the forthcoming Santiago service previously announced to be done by QF later this year. ie. not a codeshare. I also wonder if its still a goer.

[maggot]

^^ he's referring to a previous rumour that we were to hit santiago, not b a again. i believe borghetti suggested it would be so... (apparently)

[Going Boeing]

The Santiago service was officially announced by QF last year - not just a rumour. Once a week service starting in September (I think). Like Skyscanner, I'd like to know if the planned Santiago service will be scrapped (ie keep the codeshare with One World partner Lan Chile going) with Buenos Aeries being the only South American port that QF flies its own services - or are these BA services in addition to Santiago.

[maggot]

hmmmm. ok. I clearly have my ear firmly to the ground! :\

[Pedalz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAN_Argentina

;)

[Taildragger67]

Starting in 2008, probably going to be pulled again a year or two later... :hmm:

Tipsy,

LAN have opened up ops in other countries in South America; see
http://www.oneworld.com/ow/member-airlines/lan

[A. Le Rhone]

Nostraldamus Prediction: QF do this for a while and J* take it over when uneconomical.

[U.K. SUBS.]

Who has the equipment to make it an economic load? Jetstar 787-8, A330-200 or QF 747-400ER/-400

[Howard Hughes]

What about the Jetstar 747/400ER's?;)

[noip]

Comments about J* v QF Mainline are just stupid. Posters who comment as such just display their age in binary .....

Pity Pilot groups can't work together, rather than engage in ego games for the amusement of senior management.


This post started out as a riposte to "HH", however he is just a symptom, not the cause ........


Ah yes ... a unified Pilot body ..... a sexual fantasy I'll not experience ....


Pity


PS
Apologies to HH .... my girlfriend says it is HER job to get me aroused, not yours .....


N

[Howard Hughes]

Posters who comment as such just display their age in binary .....
So that would be 100 then?;)

OK OK, I admit it, it was a blatant fishing expedition, I got one though didn't I?:E

[RedTBar]

I remember on at least one occassion the spin doctors putting out a media blurb about a new flight only to be told by ops that during certain times of the year it was not possible with existing aircraft.

But I guess they could always leave some cargo behind if they need to keep the weight down.

[Jay Arr]

I did a number of the AKL-EZE-AKL services when I was an S/O. Take-off out of EZE in summer was significantly performance-limited. Cannot remember the numbers exactly, but around 30 degrees and 370 tonnes rings a bell? The runways just need to be a bit longer to be comfortable (don't know if they've ever been lengthened; I'd doubt it). I remember more than once watching a rotation as the reds loomed up! So whether using RR's or ER's I expect it'll still be a bit limiting in Argentinian summer.

The other interesting aspect is it'll be a LONG way south. Look at the above great circle link. When we did SYD-AKL-EZE it kept you further north. The direct service is definitely going to be scenic. Don't anyone start mentioning polar survival suits, ok?!

It's good stuff. Back to a great destination.

[SkyScanner]

I am guessing that with 380 doing Mel-Lax-Mel as first destination, that will leave 2 744ERs available. Given the elevation of EZE, I would suspect that these a/c would be able to get off at a much greater weight. My understanding though westbound is that we are still limited to 65 south.

Any thoughts?

[roamingwolf]

I reckon you'd wanna make sure there are no cracks in the drip shield under the first class galley on that flight:oh:

[Keg]

One of the blokes on Qrewroom posted this great circle comparison between the JNB-SYD service and the EZE-SYD service! :eek:

Enjoy! (http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=jnb-syd-eze%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=nm)

[Going Boeing]

Keg, that's a good initial track out of SYD for EZE - Cleared take-off Rwy 16R, maintain runway track.

[Brian Abraham]

westbound is that we are still limited to 65 south

As another would say "Please explain". (for the uninitiated)

[kiwi grey]

A quick Google Earth looks like a Great Circle route from Sydney to Buenos Aires would go as far south as a little over 70 degrees! :uhoh:

So McMurdo will be the designated diversion?? :}

[SkyScanner]

My understanding is that we are limited to 65 south for a few reasons (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong)

1. Fuel freezing: the further south we go the faster the fuel freezes, thus reducing the effectiveness of going so far south

2. Limited alternate airports: the further south we go, the more contingency fuel it costs, not to mention how far an alternate airport is (did a flight where Melb was still the alternate after 4 hours of flying)

3. Ease of flight planning: makes it easier for the computer to calculate

4. Unconfirmed: but heard this is as far as a P3 can go to come and look for you?!

5. Anything further than 65 you are also over pack ice. Wonder if you are required to carry polar suits?

[404 Titan]

SkyScanner

I’ve operated quite a few polar flights from Hong Kong to New York (up to 16.5 hours and within 30nm of the North Pole) and I can assure you most of your points are incorrect.
1. Fuel freezing: the further south we go the faster the fuel freezes, thus reducing the effectiveness of going so far south
1. Generally Jet A1 isn’t a problem with a standard freezing point of -47ºC. Jet A on the other hand can be with a standard freezing point of only -40ºC. In this case a sample of fuel is taken and an actual freezing point is determined and given to us by the ground engineer. In most cases I have found the freezing point to be considerably lower than Jet A1. Sometimes as low as -57ºC. It is worth pointing out that the actual outside temperate in Polar Regions isn’t much colder than elsewhere, i.e. about -60ºC. It is the length of time you spend there that counts.
2. Limited alternate airports: the further south we go, the more contingency fuel it costs, not to mention how far an alternate airport is (did a flight where Melb was still the alternate after 4 hours of flying
2. This is a valid issue and with experience on the route will be refined.
3. Ease of flight planning: makes it easier for the computer to calculate
3. Computer flight planning is just as capable flight planning in Polar Regions as it is anywhere else.
4. Unconfirmed: but heard this is as far as a P3 can go to come and look for you?!
4. This should have no bearing on where you flight plan.
5. Anything further than 65 you are also over pack ice. Wonder if you are required to carry polar suits?
5. In our operation some polar gear is provided for the flight crew to do external inspections of the aircraft if we have diverted to an airfield in Northern Russia, Alaska, Canada or Greenland. Nothing is provided if we have to make an off field ditching except standard survival gear. The reality is such a ditching would probably be unsurvivable anyway.

[Going Boeing]

SYD - JNB is limited to 65 degrees south because of MEA/oxygen limitations. In event of a depressurisation over the Antarctic land mass (elevated plateau) there would be issues with sufficient oxygen/fuel to reach alternates such as Perth, St Denis, Mauritius, so by keeping the track north of the land mass, these problems don't exist.

The track from SYD to EZE passes near a section of Antarctica which generally isn't as elevated so the same limitation may not be applied - we'll see when all the necessary planning is released to line pilots.