Replacing Pilatus PC12's

[Mal_206]

Due to the availability and Increasing costs of new PC12's, a company operating several PC12's is looking at other aircraft options.

The aircraft basically needs to do the same thing with Regard to Speed, Cabin, short field performance, make shift runway etc etc.

What are our options?

Thanks for your help!

[sispanys ria]

Check your PM

[Silvio Pettirossi]

This aircraft is not certified yet, but as soon as it is, it could be a good PC-12 replacement.
Impresive speed and range....
http://www.compairaviation.com/ca12.html

[PicMas]

TBM 850? Slightly smaller, still a fine bird

[The Right Stuff]

but they're not taildraggers :}:E

How about a DHC3T Otter?

[sispanys ria]

The PC 12 is not a taildragger...

[chevvron]

How about a Pilatus Porter?

[touch n' go]

Hi,

As an experienced PC12 pilot, your options are limited; KingAir B200 or 350, but they are likely to be far more expensive to operate, and do not have particularly good support in Europe. As you know, the PC12 is very hard to beat for reliability, versitility and operating costs.

[Mal_206]

Thanks for all the replies.

I agree with Touch n' go. Extremely hard to beat and replace!

The Compair looks excellent,but may be a while before certified!

PC 6 Porter, although perfect for these runways, far too slow and unpressurised!

TBM is nice and fast but will Never be able to go into these runways.
Well they may, but they'll never get out again :}

And the DHC3T just sounds like alot of fun!

Any other ideas?

[The Right Stuff]

The PC 12 is not a taildragger...

Ah, yes, I was wondering who'd be the first to spot that.

Oops.

I was confusing the PC12 and the Porter :ouch:

Does brain fade often start before 30 years of age?

[rduarte]

What about the C-206 B Grand Caravan ?

[Mal_206]

With a name like "mal_206" you can understand that I am a huge Fan of the 206! But the company is beyond that stage.
They need the speed, range size etc too!

Caravan definately an option. A tad slow though and unfortunately not pressureized!

[A10Warthog]

Regarding increased cost, are those due to fuel prices, maintenance or generally expensive pilatus operating costs?.

I do not think you will find any aircraft cheaper with same qualites, speed, range, shortfield perfomance etc.

Only suggestion I could come up with is ; King Air 90, probably more expensive, Piaggio P-180, fast, sleek, no short field.

Why not go for those new VLJ jet's; Eclipse jet.

[touch n' go]

Hi Mal 206,

I think we are getting a little off track here. Firstly, forget all the unpressurised types, unless the owner wants to change tack completely, so the given is that they want to retain a pressurised platform. The majority of PC12's (from MSN 240 to early to mid Series 10) are certified to an AUM of 4500kgs. The later Series 10 aircraft are at 4700kgs, as will be the new PC12NG. This means that the aircraft will fly IFR for 1400nm with 4-7 people (4500kg/4700kg respecively) on board, plus bags. Service ceiling is 30,000 ft, but it is not RVSM approved (not worth STC modification), so in reality in Europe the aircraft is operated up to FL280. Fuel burn in the first hour is 500lbs and then 350-400lbs for the subsequent hours at 270 KTAS. It is possible to re-role the aircraft in 30-40 minutes to freight configuration with no specialist tools (the crew can legally do this) and the aircraft can carry about 1.3 Tons internally on standard pallets using the standard electric cargo door at the rear. The interior can be split for bush flying; i.e. cargo net in the middle with cargo to the rear via the cargo door and 4 pax in the front half via the forward airstair. And, there's a toilet on board!

There are very few aircraft in the world that offer this; in and out of unprepared strips, or mix it with commercial jet traffic at a major international airport. As far as VLJ's are concerned, none provide such capability and the only one likely to come remotely close will be the Grob Spn 30. Frankly, as a jet pilot as well, I would not recommend any small company taking on a VLJ on a commercial basis until the year 5 point. Let someone else take the operational and financial risks in the early years. Several VLJ manufacturers in the US are currently struggling to get the required 2nd and 3rd tranches of investment, so the support worldwide is likely to be below par certainly in the first few years.

The P180 cannot operate from unprepared surfaces, so the only alternatives are the Kingair B200 (cargo door is only an option, not standard) or the more expensive 350. DOC's in Europe for the PC12 are about 8-900 Euros/hr; The Kingair will be more expensive, purely because of the twin configuration. As far as build quality is concerned, well – it’s like a Swiss watch - believe me, HBC products do not come close. However, the Kingairs, being twins, of course they can earn commercial income on an AOC. The PC12 in the majority of EU countries is still not SE-IMC approved although it could be operated on a VMC only AOC, but how often do we have such conditions.

There you go; free advice. If you want more; drop me an email and we can talk about my hourly consultancy rates!;)

[pascualito]

Hi,

What about a "twin engined jet PC12"? :eek:

Have a look at www.grobspn.com (http://www.grobspn.com)

Have fun!

[sispanys ria]

Grob's ISA + 10 flat rating is not allowind PC 12 like performance in hot conditions... runwaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Dixons Cider]

I know this is an old thread guys, just doing some research..

Re field performance, Pilatus often talks up the short feild performance. The figures of 500 - 550m are often mentioned.

Can any of you on the type confirm if these are real world numbers, or more importantly, can you carry a decent load and still achive these numbers?
What about unprepared strips - will it handle a rough surface within reason, or just a beautiful "bowling green" grass strip?

I understand its not a Twotter or Caravan, but just how close is it?
Cheers

[S.F.L.Y]

As an experienced PC12 pilot, your options are limited; KingAir B200 or 350, but they are likely to be far more expensive to operate, and do not have particularly good support in Europe.

you can't really compare a PC12 to a King Air... all costs are multiplied by 2 with a King Air while speed and cabin size are not...

[Iver]

Used Dash 7

[S.F.L.Y]

But a King Air flys OK with one engine inoperative, the PC12 doesn't. I am not interested in opening up the single engine vs 2 engine debate, but all I would point out is that there is more than just cost to factor in, there is the question, or perception, of reliability and safety by system duplication.

It's not a safety issue, statistics of engine failure related accidents are not against the PC12 vs the B200, on the contrary... It's true that there is more than a cost factor, the operating environment, regulations etc will definitely be major factors to be considered in order to compare these two aircrafts.

[Cloud Chaser]

And that is relevant because ..........