Another Aircraft Into A High Rise Building In The US.

[reportfurther]

Another aircraft, a light one, has crashed into a high rise building in Florida.

Details very sketchy so far. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[Mike Cusack]

Light aircraft into The Bank of America in Tampa Florida

[reportfurther]

Now saying it was being piloted by a 15 year old, when it crashed (as someone has said) into the Bank of America building in Tampa.

Was apparently being followed by a Coast Guard helicopter?

Still no news on any casualties. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[Man-on-the-fence]

From CNN - it sounds like an accident but you never know nowadays.

TAMPA, Florida (CNN) -- A single-engine private plane crashed Saturday into the Bank of America building in downtown Tampa, police said.

A 15-year-old student pilot was at the controls of the plane when it took off from a nearby airport in St. Petersburg, according to a spokesman for the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Department.

There were no immediate reports on casualties or injuries as a result of the crash.

Commercial airports in both Tampa and St. Petersburg temporarily suspended operations following the crash.

The skyscraper is located on Ashley and Kennedy Boulevard, according to Katie Hughes of the Tampa Police Department. The plane struck the building, built near the banks of the Hillsborough River, about two-thirds up, she said.

The tail of the plane was hanging from the side of building, and windows on at least two stories had shattered, according to reports. The structure remained intact and no smoke or flames were immediately evident at the scene.

The plane, built in 2000, is owned by National Aviation Holdings of Clearwater, Florida, according to Landings, a Web site that tracks information on individual aircraft.

[reportfurther]

Now saying it was being followed by the Coast Guard helicopter because it had no clearances to take off?

Still no word on any casualties.

[Mc-Aero]

I doubt that it can have been cleared for anything - solo at age 15???

[Man-on-the-fence]

My final news snippet for know is from AP Tampa

JANUARY 05, 18:31 ET
Plane Crashes Into Tampa Skyscraper

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) — A small plane with a student pilot crashed into a downtown skyscraper Saturday after an unauthorized takeoff, the Coast Guard said.

The student left the St. Petersburg-Clearwater Airport in a Cessna 172 and ignored signals to land, then crashed into the Bank of America building, Coast Guard Lt. Lance Isakson said.

The plane was being followed by a Coast Guard helicopter before it crashed into the building.

A law enforcement official in Washington, speaking only on condition of anonymity, said Saturday evening the FBI does not believe the crash is related to terrorism but has sent agents to the scene.

Tampa Police Department spokesman Joe Durkin said there was no immediate word on injuries.

The tail of the plane dangled from the western side of the building, about 15 floors down from the roof, but the building did not appear to be on fire.

Hijacked passenger planes were used to collapse the World Trade Center towers and attack the Pentagon in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. A fourth hijacked plane crashed in western Pennsylvania.

Some of the pilots in the hijackings had been trained at Florida flight schools.

Tampa Police and fire crews were on the scene of the crash, which occurred shortly after 5 p.m.

Bank of America, based in Charlotte, N.C., is the third-largest U.S. bank. It employs about 143,000 people and serves about 30 million households in 20 states.

Bank officials did not immediately return calls for comment Saturday

[Raas767]

Probably the same psychological make up as the kids who hose their classmates down with automatic gunfire. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[HelosRfun]

raas 767,

my thoughts exactly. kind of like a twisted columbine/WTC thing. wanting to impress friends. TOO MUCH tv for the juniors these days.

[El Grifo]

This whole catalogue of events is rapidly becoming a little surreal, dis-jointed maybe, but surreal for sure.
I am speechless. At least it's best I stay that way, in order to avoid offending our American "brothers" Phew !!!!

[avt100]

I'll guess we are getting used to it !

http://a799.ms.akamai.net/3/799/388/f7fe58ce063a47/www.msnbc.com/news/1326575.jpg

From <a href="http://members.brabant.chello.nl/~j.vanderschaar00/news.htm" target="_blank">Hotnews</a>

Jan. 5 — A small, private plane crashed into a downtown Tampa office building Saturday evening, killing the lone occupant, a 15-year-old student pilot, authorities said. For onlookers in the city’s downtown area, it was an eerie echo of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in New York, but the FBI determined that the Tampa crash was not the result of a terrorist act. Two Air Force jets were scrambled to the scene as a precaution.

[sirwa69]

I once met a very nice guy who was a captain in the US marines. Quiet, efficient and obviously very able but not in a showy aggressive way.
He said to me one day over a cup of coffee. "If I am ever diagnosed with a terminal illness, then I am going to get all my weapons and head down to the nearest drugs ghetto and I am gonna blow away as many of these B@#tards as I can before they get me"
Now if that is the attitude of a seemingly perfectly normal guy, How many idiots in the US have now seen a great new way to "go out in style" <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Private flying is completely banned where I live. There had been talk of it being allowed but that has all stopped. I can see the day coming when private flying will be banned in the US <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Chimbu chuckles]

Headline:

15 year old dies in valiant attempt to aid US gene pool!

Loser!


Chuck.

[JetAgeHobo]

Wasn't Abdulla something or other. Some kid with 6 hours, was trading lessons in return for washing airplanes, etc. The kind of thing you would encorage a youngster interested in aviation to do. Flight school owner or manager says the guy basically stole the airplane during preflight. Common for the instructors to be in the office finishing previous lesson, etc while student preflights the aircraft, then check students work.

Flight schoolI was going to basically went out of business because of 9/11, I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of aircraft for sale here in the U.S. cheap when only flights will be IFR rules. Here we go again I guess.

[Superpilot]

CNN are reporting that both his mother and grandfather were at the airport watching him pre-flight. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Few Cloudy]

Bin Laden must be grinding his teeth - that was one guy he could have used...

[newswatcher]

Detailed report from the "Tampa Tribune":

<a href="http://www.tampatrib.com/MGA5GZYG4WC.html" target="_blank">http://www.tampatrib.com/MGA5GZYG4WC.html</A>

[Knave]

Media

Local media here reports the guy was obviously disturbed as he 'wore sunglasses and a hat at all times'. OK, that makes everyone in Florida not currently in prison a nutcase. Also, 'he kept to himself'. Beats me why we have law enforcement agencies when we can have the media do our profiling for us.

Oh yeah, and there was the lovely question 'had he discovered Islam recently'. I hear his grandmother had to field that one.

It gets kind of wearying to watch everyone trying to find a rational explaination for the irrational actions of a troubled fifteen year old kid.

[Constable Clipcock]

Then again, it's not an "Only in America" thing.

Most of you out there remember Matthias Rust, of the former West Germany, who was this young punk's age when he did that grand-standing bit of stupidity with the C172 in Red Square.

The fact that Rust served time in jail, then was involved in an unjustifiable — and preumably unprovoked — stabbing which landed him in a mental hospital did not escape attention on this side of the Pond.

[Young Paul]

... or the lad in one of the University Air Squadrons a few years ago who flew a Bulldog up the main road of a town before crashing it.

[whatshouldiuse]

Let's face it. This could happen anywhere in the world. AND it probably will unfortunately.


'Nuf said.

[DownIn3Green]

According to the A.P. this idiot "felt sympathy" for Bin Loser...left that statement in a note found after the incident...

[El Grifo]

Ha! So now we have it. The guy leaves a "suicide" note saying that he did it out of sympathy for good old oasama bin laden.

Well lets see, nobody else was injured, with any luck and a good insurance policy, the flying school might get a replacement Cessna. So lets look on the positive side. The world is a bit lighter tonight. It is probably a better place. We lost a moron !!

At least his classmates will be spared "massacre by assault rifle"

God Bless America

[reportfurther]

Crash pilot 'wrote of bin Laden'

From AFP
07jan02

A YOUNG pilot who deliberately crashed his plane into a Florida office building expressed "sympathy" toward top terrorist suspect Osama bin Laden in a note found in the wreckage, police officials have revealed.

The note was found in 15-year-old Charles Bishop's pocket, Tampa police chief Bennie Holder said.

He characterised it as a suicide note, and said Bishop "clearly stated he had acted alone without any help from anyone else". "He expressed sympathy toward Osama bin Laden and the events of" September 11, the police chief said.

"He was a troubled young man."

AP reported that Holder said there was no evidence Bishop had terrorist ties.

He said Bishop was a loner with few friends, and that the boy wrote that he acted alone.

"Bishop can best be described as a young man who had very few friends and was very much a loner," Holder said.

Bishop crashed the Cessna 172R into the 42-storey Bank of America building in Tampa after taking off without authorisation and ignoring signals to land from a Coast Guard helicopter that pursued the plane. He was killed.

Investigators today interviewed the family of the student pilot and said they would search his personal computer for evidence.

[spitfire747]

Lucky he was a 15 yr old in a cessna and not a B747 captain who decided over night to exit to the "better life" and take many with him

God Help this will not happen

[Notso Fantastic]

Oh what a stupid comment! In what way does saying such a daft thing further this discussion? The first symptom of a thread that has run full course?

[Raas767]

We definately have a strong contender, if not outright winner, of this years "Darwin awards".

My favorite up to this point is the winner of the 96 Darwin award where the brainy finalist found some unused Jato bottles in the desert. He then proceeded to strap these to his pickup truck and managed to ignite them. They found the wreackage 50ft. above the ground, embedded in to a cliff wall. The estimated speed of impact was in the neighborhood of 300 knots.
The bottom line is, as long as these people don't kill anyone else in the process they are doing the planets genetic diversity a huge favor. :)

[RatherBeFlying]

Now that it has been demonstrated that flying a C172 into an office building doesn't do much more than break a window and rearrange the furniture, I suggest that all young Middle Eastern male passengers be flown on C172s instead of jetliners after the usual security check of course.

The pilot can be issued a parachute and a cabin partition can protect him from pax with evil intent.

Might need something with longer legs for North Atlantic...

Just think of the employment opportunities for young pilots. :)

[t'aint natural]

I believe the JATO incident referred to by rasa767 is an urban myth. I've heard the story many times, but I've seen no evidence of it. If you have any, I'd love to see it.

[reportfurther]

Notso Fantastic,

At least it was on the topic, how does your posting contribute anything?

All you seem to be doing is calling for the thread to be locked, I take it because you personally do not like it, even though you contribute nothing to it?

Don't think the moderators will fall for that, certainly hope not.

[boofhead]

After Sep 11 the authorities banned private flying near Class B and C airports (all major cities) to all except dual flights and student pilots solo. Honest private/commercial pilots could not fly alone. Knee jerk action of course. Wonder what they will ban now? Look for them to do something completely stupid; that's what we pay their salaries for after all.
Bin Laden damaged aviation, and the government is determined to finish the job.

[LRRP]

Surely the only thing that could have helped would be if students were not given the keys to go and check out the aircraft.
At EGSG the keys used to be left on the dashboard and some people had already speculated that the aircraft could be stolen but it was thought that there would be little chance of anyone actualy doing that because it would be hard to sell a stolen aircraft, but then after 911 it became clear that one needed to think again.
Now all of the keys are kept in reception but I imagine that low hour students (until this weekend) were still given the keys and asked to preflight the aircraft while the instructor finishes his debrief.
All of this does not help if someone gets a licence first and then becomes suicidal.
Are airline pilots imune from becomming suicidal or is it going to become illegal to fly any aircraft Solo ? !!!

[polzin]

To SIRWA 69....... Do you know why something like this never happens on Bahrain? Because as you stated there is no General Aviation . Are you allowed to fly even little tinny winnie radio controlled airplanes? Are you allowed to bring into your country plans for those little tinny aircraft? What possible damage could a radio controlled aircraft that weighs 2 pounds do? If private aircraft are ever banned from the USA I will give you permission to shoot me in the head. AND I will load the gun for you. I dont know if this is still true, but not many years ago , General aviation carried more passengers than the scheduled airlines did in th USA.. Doubt if true today but I honestly dont know. Now let me get really serious. I like the Bahrain people more than any other in the Middle East but you do live in a very restrictive society compared to the USA. If you dont believe it, Why not come over here and visit me?" I aint kiddding!

[Huck]

The question is - did the 15-year-old have any fingernail clippers on him? He should have been searched....

[PaperTiger]

To digress for a moment....

I believe the JATO incident referred to by rasa767 is an urban myth.

Yes it is, debunked here: <a href="http://www.snopes2.com/autos/dream/jato.htm" target="_blank">http://www.snopes2.com/autos/dream/jato.htm</a>

Although I could imagine Wile E. Coyote trying it.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Jeez next you'll be telling me Wile E Coyote is really just a cartoon character <img src="frown.gif" border="0">


Chuck

[Charlie32]

On the positive side, this incident may demonstrate both to the authorities and the public, that light aircraft pose a minimal threat to security. Compare the damage that would be done by your average 10 ton lorry driving into a building. Hopefully knee jerk responses to GA regulation might now be more measured??

Stupid thought really I know!

[Raas767]

The JATTO incident isn't real? Wile Coyote isn't real? You have upended every thing I believe in! Where's the nearest Cessna? :)

[Big Tudor]

If Wil E Coyote is not real then does this mean the ACME Corporation is also imaginary. How am I ever going to rid myself of them pesky road-runners now ???

[Roadtrip]

Someone can cause more carnage with an automobile. All this talk about keys and student pilots etc. is a bunch of sensationalistic BULLSHI* propagated by an unprofessional news media.

Remember, the news media isn't there to tell the news, it's there to sell soap, cars, condoms, etc. to nitwits who can't think for themselves.

That may be a little harsh, but not much.

[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: Roadtrip ]</p>

[Big Tudor]

The truth often is harsh Roadtrip.
More people are killed on the roads of the world per year than in the events on 9/11 but there is no major political drive (sic) towards improving road safety.

[brockenspectre]

Here is what the local newspapers (The St Petersburg Times) has to say:

<a href="http://www.sptimes.com/2002/01/07/TampaBay/Teen_s_suicide_note_t.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.sptimes.com/2002/01/07/TampaBay/Teen_s_suicide_note_t.shtml</a>

it takes a few moments to load but gives some insight into the young pilot's background.

My condolences go to his mother and grandmother for whom this must be an appalling time, but let us hope that constructive lessons can be learned, and additional value added to profiling as a consequence of this incident.

[FlyingRabbit]

Funny guys you are.

Who gives you the right to make fun about the death of a 15-year old boy, no matter how? Don't you think this boy had a family? Don't you think your own kids might be having wrong ideas about anything else and you simply have no clue about it? Don't you think his family is suffering enough without having to cope with this kind of s***? I hear you whining about the press everytime a crash occurs and here you are doing even worse.

[BOEINGBOY1]

flying rabit.
i kind'a have sympaty for the parents of this 15yr old boy, but better he kill himself, than to take many others with him as could so easily have been the case. his age has no bearing on the fact that he could so easily have commited murder. im sure that he didn't just mean to kill himself - and if he had succeeded, would you have still felt sorry for the kid ?

[Tom the Tenor]

Do the helicopters of the U S Coast Gaurd have CVRs? What form of pursuit was conducted on the Cessna and how aggressive was that pursuit - was the boy given a chance to think about what he was doing and given good opportunity to land or was he made to feel that he was cornered completely with gung-ho jingoistic talk on the RT about fighter jets being sent up etc. If the boy, remember, a 15 year old, felt that he had no way out there is a chance that he panicked and then anything was likely to happen?

[DownIn3Green]

I don't see it mentioned here, or on any of the links, so if this is old news I'm sorry...However, NBC reported tonight on the Evening News that this dude was an Arab. Apparently Bishop is his mother's name, his Bin Loser style father is a Lebonese gent named Mushawai or something...

"Bishop" also made a comment to his teacher that "you can't tell who the arabs around you are" or something to this effect...

How far reaching is this insanity going to go before we end it once and for all?

All this "Bishop" needed to do was be a little smarter and he could have loaded that Cessna up with some high explosives and done his "Allah" work on a Monday morning... <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[Raas767]

Apparantly when a news reporter asked a Pentagon official why this aircraft was aloud to penetrate restricted airspace, Macdill AFB the military high command for the Afhganistan operation, the official stated that the aircraft poised no threat because it had no explosives.
How did he know that? The answer ofcours is, he didn't. It sure makes me sleep better to know that the military is so on top of things considering what happened 4 months ago. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Raas767]

Sorry, Afghanistan.

[Taildragger]

Spitfire 747 .... re your comment about a 747 Captain going to the better life and taking many with him ........ Substitute 747 with 737 and read the Silk Air speculation on that accident...

[Send Clowns]

Down In 3

Was that a viscious hint of racism describing a Lebonese man as "Bin Loser style"? The Lebonese tend to keep out of the afairs of other Arab states, and are known as curteous and (barring the bloody civil war we all remember Beirut for) uncommonly tolerant. The Lebanon also has a large Christian population.

Tom the Tenor,

I don't know if you know any USCG pilots, but I had a friend who flew Dauphins for them in that area. He was over here to fly SAR for the Royal Navy on exchange. If he is typical (and the only other USCG pilot I've met, an astronaut, was similar) then they are certainly not gung-ho, jingoistic fighter jock types. More like careful, considered, professional and seemingly competent pilots. In fact much like British SAR pilots.

In your scenario how does the boy get he suicide note to his parents?

[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]</p>

[DownIn3Green]

S.C.-

If that's the way you see it I won't argue the point... :)

[Paterbrat]

The sad fact is that this is life in todays world.

No matter what restrictions are in place the means exist for any disturbed young man( just look at the statistics, and yes I have) to find a way of doing away with himself.That is a tragic fact of life today.

I do think that the news these days does bear a partial responsibility, how many times have every single one of us seen the replay of the events of the 11th. I can garantee you that every one of us has that image seared very firmly into our brains.

And that is life as well, for the news exists in it's present form because there is a demand for it. We all do want to see what happened, so we get it. Again and agin and again...

From the moment we all come out of our wrapper into this world of our we begin realising that it carries no garantees, no money back, and by golly it just isn't fair into the bargin, and actualy no-one promised it would be.

There are no quick answers. There is no way of knowing what a disturbed young juvenile is going to do. As Desmond Morris observed, cramming a rat population into tight confines increases their stress levels, and aberant behaviour is exibited.
Modern day stress levels are at an all time high and getting worse by the day.

Young people are finding it increasingly difficult to get a job, any parent will know exactly what I mean. What can we do, probably not much.

Nature tends to have its own way of reducing the stress level, and people it isn't nice. Gloomy, yes. What can we individualy do about it, probably not a lot except hope. Try and go about our business whatever that is, keep our eyes open and try and help sort out the situation to the best of our ability when it occurs near us.

[sirwa69]

polzin

Radio controlled Airplanes are indeed banned here in Bahrain. Many years ago there used to be a thriving club who's members met regularly to fly their little planes and show off new tricks. The favourite place was down at Zallaq beach which was near the then Crown Princes palace. They were allowed as long as they followed some guidelines the main one being never to fly over his palace grounds. One day an American, who was a bit of a Maverick, flew his little plane right over the palace while the CP was having breakfast on his patio.
Next day the club principles were called in and told that radio controlled planes were banned and that they better remove them from the island or have them confiscated.
As I said that was many years ago and they are still banned to this day. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
I am glad you like the Bahraini people, so do I. It is a restricted society relative to the USA. But I find that in certain aspects, the USA is a restricted society relative to my home country, Scotland. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
btw I have visited the USA on many occassions and I love it. :)

[SaturnV]

Down in 3, you said, "How far reaching is this insanity going to go before we end it once and for all?"

How exactly would you propose to end it "once and for all?"

Looking at recent US history, we have repeated instances of students shooting up schools, or planning to do so. And ask railway locomotive engineers about the copycat suicides who read about someone stepping in front of a speeding train and decide they will do likewise. The 'once and for all' solutions to these situations would appear to be take away the guns, close the schools, and stop the trains.

[reportfurther]

TWO days before Charles Bishop killed himself by crashing a small plane into a skyscraper, the 15-year-old student pilot told his best friend to keep an eye on the news.

"He said an airline was thinking of hiring him and he'd be on the news Saturday," the friend, Emerson Favreau, said yesterday.

Favreau didn't think much of the claim, since Bishop had said the same thing twice before and nothing had happened.

But that Saturday, Bishop, a high school student, stole an airplane from a flight school at the St Petersburg-Clearwater International Airport and crashed it into the 28th floor of the Bank of America Plaza in Tampa's city centre.

A note expressing sympathy for Osama bin Laden and support for the September 11 terrorist attacks was found in Bishop's pocket.

[reportfurther]

THE FAA SUGGESTS FLIGHT SCHOOL SECURITY ENHANCEMENTS...

Yesterday, reacting to last weekend's crash by a flight student into a
Tampa skyscraper, the FAA issued recommendations that aim to try to
avert such incidents in the future. The recommendations expire after
six months, and are not mandatory. The FAA said flight school operators
should implement the suggestions in ways they deem appropriate to their
operations. The recommendations focus on greater oversight of student
pilots, and include: Keep all pre-solo students under the supervision of
a flight instructor at all times. Positively identify all students
before every flight. Require that all students complete their medical
exam before beginning training, to allow a chance to detect any
disqualifying mental condition. And more. AOPA yesterday called the
recommendations "reasonable and practical," though we expect they'll
seem uncomfortably Big-Brother-like to some.

...SAME TOPIC, DIFFERENT JOUR: AVIATION SECURITY, CONT'D....

On beyond flight schools: Suicidal jihadians with explosive shoes and
armed journalists can still find their way past airport security and
onto passenger- and fuel-laden aircraft. At the same time, an aged
congressman with a metal hip and an armed Secret Service agent are,
respectively, strip-searched and simply not allowed to board. Anyone
with the intelligence of a 15-year-old child apparently can steal a
light aircraft, fly it through military airspace and slam it into an
office building. Fortunately, nobody's seriously advocating the denial
of our freedoms as a failsafe solution to protect us from ourselves --
at least not yet. Unfortunately, so long as the insane and foolish
continue to kill and die for reasons the rest of us fail to comprehend,
so too will the noble and the brave die to protect us. And those who
belong to neither group will struggle to walk the line between self-
protection and paranoia.

...CESSNA 172 VS. BANK, GA VS. FEAR...
Pilots are quick to point out that the Cessna 172 that crashed into the
Bank of America building in Tampa on Saturday all but bounced off,
killing only its sole occupant. Even general-news media seem to be
growing wise to the useful load and speed limitations that make your
average GA aircraft not especially terrorist-friendly. Many reports
have thus far portrayed the Tampa event more as an unfortunate troubled-
teen episode than a general aviation security crisis. NBC's Dateline
Tuesday focused on the boy's unsettled home life. There is also a
question about an adverse reaction to a prescription drug ... hardly
problems that can be solved by increased security at small airports.

...FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN, AND THE HUNT FOR BAD APPLES
In a sickeningly positive twist, the surreal image of a light aircraft's
tail hanging from the 28th floor of an office building has at least
imprinted on the public the reality that your generic light aircraft is
capable of relatively limited damage in such applications. Further,
millions of viewers have now, through a familiar local newscaster,
visited a small local airport and seen the concerned, patriotic, honest
people working to improve security there -- some now require security
badges and thumbprints -- and how even those measures would not have
stopped last week's crash in Tampa.