Peterborough Down the Memory Hole?

[highcirrus]

Is it my imagination or did I start reading a thread yesterday that dealt with RAF personnel being advised by the Station Commander of RAF Wittering not to wear uniform whilst in the environs of Peterborough for fear of provoking the locals to abusive behaviour?

If I'm not imagining things and an Orwellian punt into Winston Smith’s memory hole has not taken place, can someone tell me where the thread has been moved to?

[Wrathmonk]

Suspect its been pulled because it was starting to get very personal in its attacks on certain (named) individuals by some of PPRuNes armchair air marshal members!:cool:

Bit like the thread on the Victor crash in Canada.

[BobHead]

If this is the dress code for RAF personnel in public in London then perhaps they should not be seen in public in uniform.

What ever happen to standards when a Corporal is in Desert Cam Gear and an Officer in flying overalls.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p232/Nutty737/goodmanhaydenDM0803_468x8261.jpg

Even when I was a submariner I was never seen in public in working gear.

Bob

[Avitor]

It would take a brave scroat to bully that Corporal...... :}

[Wrathmonk]

Bob

Both authorised uniform - have a look at the majority of "welcome home" parades for the troops. All in dessies.

And as a sun-dodger yourself can I thank you for not wearing your uniform in public post tour - it was probably able to stand up, and even walk, on its own!!!:p:E

[Chugalug2]

If this is the dress code for RAF personnel in public in London then perhaps they should not be seen in public in uniform.

I think we'll find it is dress code as defined by MOD PR, as against the RAF. In our day Bob (is that pronounced 'per Black Adder' ? :)), we dressed as ordered. I think that you'll find that this pair did the same.

As to:What ever happen to standards I only wish that I had ever attained anything like the standards that this pair set. Respect!

[Cyclone733]

Bobhead,

What ever happen to standards when a Corporal is in Desert Cam Gear and an Officer in flying overalls

I get the impression this was for publicity reasons, none the less, I'm more than happy to see these and any other members of the armed forces out and about in uniform, even if it may not match the dress standards of the dark ages of the cold war.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=528565&in_page_id=1770

"I'm proud of this uniform because it identifies me as a serviceman, as a protector of the Sovereign.

"I'm proud of it because the RAF Regiment has made me what I am today - a Military Cross winner. And no-one can take that away."
- Cpl Hayden MC

Cyclone

[BOAC]

Forgive the interruption, but if I recall correctly, 'AIDU' began the thread and it is possible has deleted it. You could try a PM to AIDU to ask. Since it is 'out of sight' to me as well I suspect that is the case?

Incidentally, I heard a rather disappointing 'ineffective' reply by Torpy on the matter on Radio4 lunchtime news on Friday.

Bobhead - is that chin real....?

[highcirrus]

I’d say that the more we see the likes of Flight Lieutenant Michelle Goodman DFC and Corporal David Hayden MC on the benighted streets of UK, wearing either dress or working uniform, the better. I have a growing sense that an increasingly visible uniformed Service presence may serve as a much needed reassurance to the civil population that the nation still possesses an honourable, selfless and professional force that can ultimately be called upon to deal with serious exigencies both at home as well as overseas. Moreover, perhaps such a growing presence is urgently required in light of what seems to be a decreasing presence of the Police Force on our streets and may even be catalytic in encouraging a reversal of this catastrophic phenomenon.

[GunkyTom]

Bob or is it Richard ? I am sure they are wearing an authorised uniform as the Military is becoming more acutely aware of Twits criticising every move of our lads and lasses. I expect if you had/have been awarded some sort of honour, you would have been guided on appropriate dress for the occasion .

[BEagle]

Regarding 'vanishing threads', I'll think you'll find that patience with some posters has now reached PLE....

That is a first rate photo of Flt Lt Goodman DFC and Cpl Hayden MC.

Good to see smart, practical uniforms being worn publicly. Just as it was good to see a smartly dressed TriStar pilot shopping in Waitrose last Friday in No.14 dress.

Congratulations to all those who received operational awards.

[9.81m/s/s]

Bob,

They were probably in those particular uniforms for effect and to remind everyone of where we are and what we are doing so do me a favour and keep your pathetic views off pprune and get a life you k*ob!! These guys are out there doing it !!!!

[Hummingfrog]

I am sure that this was very much a PR exercise - even down to the PC chat given by the young lady to the news media - need more girls in RAF etc.

I applaud the bravery of these young men and woman and they deserve every plaudit they get.

One point, though, as far as I remember when I was a lad flying overalls were not classed as uniform but working dress;)

HF

[Dan D'air]

"The varying standard of RAF threads"

I don't believe that they vary very much at all. They both look very smart but lets face it, they could be walking down the street looking like an absolute bag of $h1te and I for one wouldn't bat an eyelid. They have (along with the 182 recently decorated) and everyone else who has and are still serving more than proved themselves and as the majority of posters on this thread have so rightly stated, we are and should be hugely proud of them.

[airborne_artist]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2008/03/09/matt.gif

[TEEEJ]

Bob,

Please put brain in gear before posting! Did you do any background on the image that you posted? Did it ever cross your mind that the personnel involved were briefed on the uniform to wear?

[Riskman]

I hope the recruiters can use that photograph of Flt Lt Goodman DFC and Cpl Hayden MC. The dress, poise and self-confidence they portray would make any youngster think 'I want to be like them'.

Rise above the rest/Be the best/Be part of something all sounded a bit tame and wishful, and then along come two individuals who have done just that.

Makes me proud. Again.


ps Do aircrew get sewn in to their growbags?;)

[Al R]

The one thought that strikes me is that I'm 'only' in my mid 40s and that this pair would have been toddlers or operating at low altitude when I joined up. These aren't the old duffers that we're used to seeing wheeled out for the cameras - these are.. 'young people', experienced and at the top end of their game. And slightly off at a tangent, its the first time that I actually get the feeling that the baton (whatever thats worth) has been passed. The likes of Chugalug of course, will have experienced this many times. I also feel that the baton is in very good hands.

And looking at Michelle and thinking of being in good ha..

Sorry. :E

[C130 Techie]

BobHead

I would suggest that those pictured and the others who have been decorated with them have raised the standards to a level that you (and I) can only hope to attain. The mode of dress that they are in is both smart and in keeping with the operational theatres in which they were serving when decorated. It puts things very much into perspective.

[Runaway Gun]

If the uniform is good enough to wear whilst being shot at and doing your job (and bloody well as these two have been recognised), then it's definitely good enough to wear back in your own country. Stop your whinging !!

[RETDPI]

100% agreed Al R. One gets the feeling of "at last!"
Having been saddened by some of the utterances (and silences) of my still serving contemporaries and having felt totally for the flying ladies after the crass "Samsonite" faux pas, I think that here we have a well deserved and well handled bit of positive publicity for the Service.
It's good for the girls, good for the SH world, good for the Rocks and good for the RAF at large.
It's also good for the morale of boring retired old duffers (like Beags).

[Chris Kebab]

BobHead, or can I call you Dick?

You're not related to Brian Moore are you?

[BEagle]

Oi, Redders, you old spy, I resemble that remark!

Seriously though, those two must be a PR person's dream. If not, then they darn well should be! A tough Rock in immaculate desert combat kit and a young lady combat pilot in a smart flying suit - both of whom have been highly decorated for their bravery under fire.

You can't get better than that!

[Dan D'air]

Beags,

Once again the sagacity of experience shines through in one of your posts. Absolutely, totally impressive. Not even a Kwik-fit fitter could better what we have seen this week.:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

[BobHead]

You are such a touchy lot, I seem to have a whole keep net full, personal insults as well.

I made no reference to the people inside the uniforms and I have read of their deeds which has nothing to do with the uniforms they are wearing in public let alone in Perterborough. The next erk who wanders down the main road in that fair city dressed in greasy RAF overalls, fag in gob, pencil stub behind the left ear (thats if he is left handed of course) and no beret will be OK when the Snow Drops pass by cos yoos lot say so.

BH:ugh:

[RTR]

Who the hell took that picture?

I cannot imagine a better image to present to ANYONE, let alone the general public OR those thinking of joining up, to show what being a member of our armed forces is about. It beats hands down anything seen before.

MOD, get yer fingers out! You have been presented with something that will not pass this way again.

[buoy15]

Both in step as well - a picture paints a thousand words:ok:

[GunkyTom]

'The next erk who wanders down the main road in that fair city dressed in greasy RAF overalls, fag in gob, pencil stub behind the left ear (thats if he is left handed of course) and no beret will be OK when the Snow Drops pass by cos yoos lot say so.'

It's too late to backpedal and try to turn your crass, unwelcome comments into a pseudo fishing trip. YOU HAVE LOST FACE.When have you ever seen the above description walking down any High Street? What do you have against the RAF or military for that matter? I wouldn't have expected the comments from an ex mil .The forces have enough of a hard time at the moment without the above type of comments from someone who should know betterhttp://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons//icon8.gif

[airsound]

The Wittering/Peterborough situation may have been a bit of an over-reaction, and there may be more to it than meets the eye. But it does seem to have focussed the attention of the media on some of the problems that PPRuNers know only too well, problems that include the often unfair and uncaring attitude of some of the public to the armed forces.

Here’s a favourable example, from The Independent on Sunday - an organ not invariably known for its pro-forces views. The article, by Sarah Sands, is called The brave wear a uniform, the coward wears a suit, and it’s worth reading in full - but in the meantime, this is the last paragraph.
If we abuse those who would lay down their lives for us, we are not a society at all. I prefer to think that we have been thoughtless rather than cruel. We must visibly honour our armed forces and – anathema to Gordon Brown and David Cameron – we must pay for them and their families. Their blood, our treasure, according to the Covenant.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/sarah-sands/sarah-sands-the-brave-wear-a-uniform-the-coward-wears-a-suit-793361.html


airsound

[Chugalug2]

airsound, an excellent article by Sarah Sands, so much so that I have saved it. Thanks for the heads up, I would commend it to all! It's all about honour she says, not within the Services for she credits them with that in abundance but within the rest of us. Here she finds a deficiency, and hopes that its lack is thoughtlessness. I disagree, you don't just forget to act and think honourably, you are simply dishonourable. That is the charge levelled at us. Time to change our ways and show respect to those who have earned it, rather than those who demand it while asking "Do you know who I am?"

[allan909]

....and just look at those creases in the trousers of the DPM! Bloody impressive. I've seen professional desk bound aircrew that wouldn't know what an iron was let alone how to use one on a uniform.

[Morgan45]

:ok:
http://www.lynnnews.co.uk/news/RAF-Marham-staff-wear-uniform.3864849.jp

Ok, Marham Village is not Peterborough but this is what I'd expect from RAF :D
Hope lots more stations will follow!!

[FJJP]

Those who abuse servicemen would be well advise to heed the events some years ago, where apprentices from Locking went throught a local gang in Weston-Super-Mare. Several apprentices were duffed up by the local feral yoofs; the entire apprentice wing demolished the feral cafe and put the miscreants in casualty [including the cafe proprietor, sympatheric to the thugs].

Also, a number of guys on detachment went to the aid of a young girl being given a hard time be feral thrugs in a pub in Forres - she, and the local plods were ever so grateful to have said ferals sorted out....

[Impiger]

BobHead is way off the mark with his comments but at least its given us a chance to wade in with positivie views of the individuals, wearing smart uniforms of various types in public and the Service in general. A welcome change to much of the drivelling that happens on PPrune. So well done Bob you've probably had the exactly opposite effect to the one you intended but the outcome is very positive. Now I must dig out my old No14 Dress just to pop down to Waitrose - maybe I'll get a discount on the Claret:ok:

[Mr C Hinecap]

Morgan - you'll find that anyone will wear their uniform in small towns near their bases. Sheesh - out at Marham it shows you've the potential to increase the local gene pool - and since we closd Colt, there is less chance of that happening out there!

[Al R]

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/andreas-whittam-smith/andreas-whittam-smith-its-not-only-the-public-who-dont-respect-a-uniform-793667.html

The Indy had an interesting perspective on this. And it finishes off by quickly comparing the blanket stacker management mentality with the pilot command mentality.

[Mr C Hinecap]

AI R - you have interpreted a fairly poor article pretty badly - but then again, it would not have fitted your tedious needs otherwise. I'm not minded to point out the journalistic licenses within the article, but anyone who knows the area, the base in question and the people will know exactly what I mean. Your stacker / pilot comparison is your own and I'd take you to task on it - if you could reason or listen to reason. Please stick to writing to the Mail.

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

So well done Bob you've probably had the exactly opposite effect to the one you intended but the outcome is very positive.


Sorry, chaps, but if you took time to breath before taking the bait you would quickly realise that an (ancient) ex submariner talking about uniform standards and the wearing of them in public just had to be a wind up.
Poor picture selection however (for a wind up).:=

[Al R]

What makes it 'poor', Hinecap :confused: ? For the Indy to come out in support of anything related to wearing a uniform must have taken a leap of faith greater than Atherton could ever have in the abilities of those under her command, and the local situation.

The scribbly is an ex squaddie, so he has a bit of an insight. What other parts of his piece did you dissagree with? Lets see.

"Gordon Brown's hasty statement does not mean the Government show much meaningful respect for the armed services."Correct, Brown is notorious for his scathing contempt for the MoD.

"Coroners' inquests have repeatedly shown that troops have died because of avoidable deficiencies in their equipment."Again, correct.

"Returning causalities have sometimes lacked the medical treatment they deserve. Veterans who suffer trauma have been badly served."Correct.

"And when the dead arrive home in coffins, do ministers show their gratitude by turning up at the airfield. Did Mr Blair ever do that? Does Mr Brown? Does anybody?"Well, do they?

Just which part do you dissagree with?

On Friday, I journeyed up from London to P'boro with an ex neighbour, who has worked for Huntingdon Life Sciences since 1997, when I first met him. He reminded me about the time that his son and daughter were shouted at by hemp underpant wearing, tofu munching nutters, but not once did any of that force him to move away or restrict his way of living. I also chatted to a lady from Zimbabwe taxi driver in P'boro who told me that military fares usually got discount as long as the cab didn't get puked up in.

Finally, its not about MY needs Hinecap. You can be as offensive as you like about that, but this is not about one person's needs. Atherton's responsibility goes beyond handing a hankie to any single serviceman ar woman and I'm relieved that other stations are lining up quite publically, to announce contra policies. The sooner Group Captain Atherton gets promoted out of harm's way, the sooner the RAF can get the benefit of her unique style of macromanagement and the sooner the troops on the shop floor can back back to normality.

Finally, with regards to my blanket stacker reference.. where's your sense of humour? Feel free to continue referencing me as thick, time expired and living in the past. ;)

[noregrets]

Al R, like Mr C I'm afraid that I must take you up on your rather lame stacker-pilot comparison. You seem to neglect that the RAF is run by pilots (and always has been), and that the creeping ingress of management twaddle into the Service over the past 20 years has been instigated, supported and driven by... hmm, let's see now! For what it's worth, my abiding memory of many years's service on flying stations was the seemingly endless deluge of corporate b******s from the Stn Cdr, OC Fg Sqns and SHQ - at times it seemed that the only true examples of leadership and command could be found in Eng & Supply Wg. Perhaps you might like to re-consider your rather poor attempt at banter!

[Al R]

Ever heard of NMS? :oh:

My banter might be lame (situation no change there then), but things have gone downhill - no wonder we cover up when we get shouted at nowadays. But aside from the subjective, do you have any objective examples of stackers leading or actually closing with and engaging with the enemy, such as those 'management twaddle' types you mentioned? As I recall, supply sqns were the most introspective, bull**** driven, paper shuffling, jealously guarded empires on any station that I served at.

By comparison, most flying types that I ever knew seemed refreshingly normal, humble, respectful and polite.

[noregrets]

Your use of the phrase 'Supply Sqn' is quite indicative of how out-of-date your perceptions are! The vast majority of such organisations are now called Logistics Sqns, and are far more focussed nowadays on supplying rather than storing. In any event, as a taxpayer you should be glad that public assets are indeed jealously guarded, with rigorous processes in place and clear audit trails to ensure that fraud, theft, misappropriation and loss is minimised.

As to 'objective examples of stackers leading or actually closing with and engaging with the enemy', perhaps our friends from TSW or UKMAMS (not to mention the 'stackers' embedded within SF) would care to contribute.

And for as much as I'd like to, I'm not going to bite at your last comment! :)

[Mr C Hinecap]

noregrets - AI R has been outside the wire for quite some time now and has the favourite historical view of duvet technicians we expect from the nut-manglers of old. He probably doesn;t even know that most OC Eng Wg were re-branded OC Fwd.
Then again - if we're talking Engineer - haven't we contracted that out?

[Al R]

NoRegretters,

Sure, they were logs units even as far back as my day. I suppose though, that as long as the people within the system are better served as a result of renaming and as long as its not just some (perish the thought :eek: ) profile enhancing corporate rebranding exercise in self gratification for some middle manager, then I’m sure its all for the best. But overall, I do agree with you about the need for clarity and best civilian practice .. so with that in mind, I wonder how the old Collyweston Industrial Estate is these days? Any news on when the the new General Manager might be expected?

Hinecappers,

Duvets? DUVETS?? In my day, we called ‘em Continental Quilts. My, things HAVE improved. What a difference a name makes. But I don't need to tell a Logistic Procurement and Delivery Executive that!

(I hate to be the one to have to tell you this, but I’m not an ex engineer - merely a long past his sell by date, ex Rock. Anyway, now that we’ve cleared that up.. let’s carry on your point about the ingress of civilianisation within respective trade groups.)

[WIWOWessex]

Noregrets

I must question you assertion that Logistic Sqns are more focussed on supplying than storing.
Supplying what? Spares for aircraft? I don't think so, ever since we went over to the "just in time" "only stocking items for immediate use" regime, aircraft are sat on the ground for days until the "logistics chain" can provide. At least in the old days when you were down to the last few on the shelf you ordered some more! Nowadays the system waits until there's none on the shelf and then orders, KEEPING AIRCRAFT ON THE GROUND. With the present op tempo the system only just has enough for ops and not the aircraft back in Blighty leading to crews getting the minimum and quite often less than the minimum flying training.

[Al R]

wiwo,

You really need to get with the programme and redefine your understanding of the complex relationships and the various synergies at play here. The modern Air Force (gulp, I almost mentioned Support Command) has adapted, it has evolved.. IT HAS MOVED ON! ;)

http://static.flickr.com/63/190916781_fc9e5962bb.jpg

[Mr C Hinecap]

WIWO

The stackers are only trying to keep the pitiful quantity of spares turning around - those quantities specified by the Engineering Authorities and ratified by the IPTs - which are largely staffed by Engineers and not Logisticians.

AI R - my bad - need to ensure the Regiment are included in any shoe-wetting competition here. They have done so well from modern changes then - re-branding with the RAFP and calling it 'Force Protection', giving Rapier to the Arty and forming the basis of the Joint Service Sniff Test Regiment. I'd be sitting quietly in the corner with that sort of legacy serving me.

Back to uniform chat anyway - does everyone have all their badges on all their kit? EAW velcro bits for all?

[BEagle]

Getting back to the subject of Peterborough, or rather, Peterboroughistan, a fellow PPRuNer sent me a series of photos showing the level of support from the local population shown towards the deceased CF personnel recently repatriated to CFB Trenton and thence to Toronto.

Here is one of the photos:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/trenton.jpg

The caption reads "Between Trenton and Toronto, there are 50 bridges. All were occupied by police officers, ambulance personnel, firefighters and above all by ordinary people".

There is a city of Peterborough in Ontario, not all that far from Trenton. I somehow get the feeling that it would have shown a rather different attitude towards service personnel than its namesake in Cambridgeshire.

[Al R]

Hinesters,

Rapier was reliquished because the RAF simply didn't have the need for it anymore.. you know, the type of thinking which applied when it decided to apply a similar level of military need across the Supply Branch before practically civilianising it, lock stock and barrel. It was you who was going on about rebranding, not me. The closest the scuffers ever came to joining forces with us was only temp talk thankfully, and pre SD814 :suspect:. That I suppose, would be like TSW raising its game to join forces with the RLC?

With regards to legacy, I would imagine that the SRDG has done the RAF proud of late, most recently the last GBAD sqn has returned and only disbanded last week. Still, not to worry and I don't want to destract you with all this manly talk of Reggie stuff when I'm sure you have a pot plant and an upset victimised serviceman or two to attend to. So, to matters of greater import - are my boots in yet?

[BEagle]

Al R -

Good news - they've finally got a pair of boots in your size!

Bad news - you can't have them because someone might need them....:rolleyes:


PS - Glad to note that the Rock humour we aircrew types used to experience during GDT....ODT....CCS....(insert latest TLA) is still alive and kicking!

[Al R]

Beagle, when you joined up you didn't need 1250s - you both knew each other, Hunter wasn't an aircraft, it was a trade and Hercules wasn't.. well, you get the drift.

A little before the young shaver Hinecap's time maybe, but remember FOFAD? "F#ck off, fire at Donnington". Nowadays it'd be; WYLTFOACSFWHAIAILYTAOATQSBTEAARBTIWALSBEANLACUAP - "Would you like to fill out a customer satisfaction form, we have an inability I'm afraid and I'd like you to accept our apologies. Those quantities specified by the Engineering Authorities and ratified by the IPTs - which are largely staffed by Engineers and not Logisticians, are causing us a problem.".

Still, its good to know that its the spanner boys throwing their spanner in the works this time, and not just some dodgy fuse box. You know what they say - where there's blame, there's an ACR cop out in there somewhere. :{

[Avitor]

Let's get Peterborough into perspective shall we! To my knowledge, there has been one isolated display of hostility towards the R A F uniform, two passers by scared them off.

The rat faced CO of Wittering, came to Peterborough last week, to meet the Deputy Mayor. Upon leaving the Town Hall, she was photographed on the steps, in uniform.

Had I been there and had the pressence of mind, I might have hollered.....YOU THERE! Get that uniform off. BITCH!

The residents of Peterborough have a high regard for the R A F and always will have.

[Al R]

I am reminded of Alec King, at the Depot.. aeons back. One summer's evening, in the gathering gloom, he caught sight of some wretch short cutting it across his beloved parade square. He stabbed his pace stick into the half light and bellowed 'AIRMAN!!', at which point the half cut airman turned, squinted and before he could stop himself, screamed back 'Station Warrant Officer!'.

This is interesting.. kind of. :rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7300626.stm

http://tothebest.army.mod.uk/Pages/default.aspx

I don't want to second guess any longer about the rights and wrongs of what the Wittering Creche manager decided that fateful day, when she re-roled the RAF as the Cambridgeshire Clandestine Corporation, but it seems the army at least, is actively fighting back. Almost 90% of the public wants to see uniforms on the streets again, and while I know that isn't where the ultimate decision lies, we should be reflecting that 'brand loyalty' back too. We owe it to those we defend, to be seen by them.

[BEagle]

Avitor, whilst you might harbour strong views, the rather offensive prose of your post would benefit from some editing, I feel.

[VFE]

Gross over reaction from the CO to an isolated incident IMHO. As a result relations with the local community have been damaged due to the fact 99% fully support the local RAF station personel and their right to wear uniform in public so have been made to feel wrongly accused. It has been a very saddening experience for all concerned.

So then, what was her motive in going public?

VFE.

[noregrets]

BEagle - seconded.

Avitor - you're out of order. Personal insults like 'rat faced' and 'bitch' have no place here, regardless of what you might think about the situation. Recommend you delete your last posting asap before it's done for you.

[Avitor]

B Eagle.....
Avitor, whilst you might harbour strong views, the rather offensive prose of your post would benefit from some editing, I feel.
------------------------------------------------------------
I see! As the CO insisted the uniform ban stays, I am sorry, I cannot find it within me to moderate my post, unless I am requested to by the forum moderators. HTH.

[Avitor]

noregrets

Avitor - you're out of order. Personal insults like 'rat faced' and 'bitch' have no place here, regardless of what you might think about the situation. Recommend you delete your last posting asap before it's done for you.
======================================================
I am a resident of Peterborough, would you consider the hurt I feel after the comments from the CO of Wittering?

Threre are two schools of thought here, the rallying round one and the face value one.

[Al R]

vf,

She didn't go public with it - some airman did, by phoning the local radio station and complaining about being ordered to cover up. In the CO's defence, I can't imagine for one moment she would have thought the reaction would have been quite this strong. I can imagine that one nurse being victimised might be an uncomfortable and upsetting experience, but (sigh) this is going over old ground so I'm not going to suggest that it was all a bit of a gross over reaction. But putting it into context, I can't for one moment imagine Ro (or any stacker for that matter) ordering 8 blankets for a shelf, when they might only ever need 3.

[Mr C Hinecap]

Avitor - the Stn Cdr at Wittering didn't make any comments to spark this whole thing off - she took advice from security services about the safety and wellbeing of troops under her care. It was an internal matter. Get off your Peterborough high horse - it isn't exactly outside the camp gates and I'm still not going to go there with my uniform on. Crappy town full of rat-faced residents. It does have an oriental supermarket tho - got to see positive where it exists.

[Chugalug2]

Might it not be more beneficial for the RAF, re Peterborough et al, the Army, re the latest charm offensive featured by Al R above, and the Navy, well perhaps not as everybody loves a sailor, to decide where all this hostility stems from and try to eliminate it at source? It seems to me instructive that the NUT is facing a call from their left wing to ban military recruitment in schools. With such attitudes prevalent in the educational industry it is hardly surprising that this is at least one lesson learned by the feral product that it now churns out.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=533428&in_page_id=1770
Oh, it's from the Daily Mail, so a total fabrication, sorry, my mistake!

[Al R]

Hinecap's comments were picked up by the P'boro ET, and sent community relations back 15 years when he said: "Crappy town full of rat-faced residents".

Is it any wonder that ALL of Witt has to cover up when its just the irresponsible singletons who generalise like that? You'll be complaining next that you're all being picked on..

[Al R]

Chuggers,

:=

I won't hear a word said against The Mail.

I watched some loony teacher (quite clearly a hairy armpitted lesbian) banging her gums the other day about the idea that children should swear an oath of allegiance. She was saying that the plan was out of touch with society. I would liked to have told her that she was paid just to rattle off the alphabet, not decide what society wanted its children to do. I wonder if getting 12 weeks off a year is out of step with society too?

[Chugalug2]

Perhaps it might be more to the point to get her and her chums, rather than the kids, to swear an oath of allegiance to Her Majesty! You just have to ponder the bizarre concept that thought conjures up to realise the gulf that exists between HM Forces and 'Society' as epitomized by your 'loony' lady and her cohorts of likeminded brethren. It is not the Forces that are out of kilter but a substantial section of the civilian population who are able to peddle their petty prejudices against their own nation and those who defend it and the freedom to indulge in such rhetoric. You don't have to be Nero to be oblivious to the real world, you can just work for education, education, education!