Why DO Sponsors Whant A levels?

[jaybirdc152]

I am a 19 year old lad currently in an engineering apprentiship but dremped of flying all my life. I have a Class 2 medical and 11 hours under my belt in 3 different prop aircraft and seriously want to take my flying further. however im not made of money and so am looking into the sponsorships provided by companys such as flybee and Net/Jet. only thing is. they all seam to require A-Levels. Is there any chance of me getting a sponsor/cadetship or am i going to have to study maths and physics again at colage?

[kwachon]

So they know if you can spell or not!

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

You have to appreciate mate, that if you are awarded a sponsorship scheme, the provider has to be sure that you have all the right attributes and a reasonable chance of coping with the amount of work you are expected to do.

As well as your personality, you must reach a certain standard with your ability to learn. Of course, having a reasonable education from school will show this and initally get your foot in the door, i.e. your application will be accepted. Also, and I don't know this as fact, but I am sure it is used as a filtering system too.

If it is any consilation, I didnt do particularly well at school, however, when I got to college I extracted my thumb from my butt and did some work, to which I got the results I wanted. I think I applied to BA about 4 times, and every time they rejected my application until I got a degree. Then I failed the verbal reasoning test after been invited for phase 2, aptitude testing :ugh:.

With the above in mind, you also have to realise that sponsorship is very competitive, and only a few people get through. I lost count of how many times I was rejected, but if you are determined enough you will get there, even if that does mean saving for a few years to fund yourself.

All the best with it.

[adwjenk]

Hi,

Airlines like to see you have taken education further beyond what is required, gone up a level so to speak where the work load has increased and it is more in depth with a greater volume of work! Also A-Levels are recognised as the step up from GCSE so it seems logical they are set as the bench mark for qualifications.
The ATPL ground school is very in-depth, it involves commitment, in fact a huge amount of commitment due to the shear volume of work, more then GCSE I would say!
It may be work checking to see that the training you are doing as a apprentice may give you some form of A-Level equivalents' if so airlines may accept them.
Cadet places are very very hard to come by and the completion is fierce you could always carry on with your training and use your skills to save up for your flight training and do it that way. Or you could head back to college to do A-Levels, but unfortunately A-Levels are the bench mark when it comes to education requirements for these schemes!

All the best though

[Adios]

Jaybird,

From what I can tell by reading various forums, only 3-5% of all applicants are chosen for cadet schemes and that is with A-level requirements in place. Why should the airlines make these odds even worse by expanding who can apply? Apparently they can find enough good people without lowering the application standard. Before trotting off to get A-levels so you can apply, I'd recommend doing the GAPAN assessment to see if you are in the top bracket of aptitude. If not, then just get on with self-sponsored training and quit fretting about A-levels.

[jaybirdc152]

Thanks guys. i'll take it all into consideration. just seams hard to get into the busness considering the amount of job aplications around. any advice on whether oxford aviation or Cabair at cranfield are prefured by airlines and which offers the best training. i'v looked at the sylibus and different corces they offer but would like advice from a student there or ex student if posible. Thank you.

Jaybird

[SkyCamMK]

If you cannot see that "dremped" "seam" and "colage" are hopelessly wrong you might expect to have to have higher educational qualifications before some one would risk spending big bucks on you!!! ICAO English is expected at a high level and you will have to study it. Sorry but it's true!

[BerksFlyer]

And 'sylibus', 'prefured' and 'corces'. The rest we shall call typos ;)

On a serious note though, it must be accepted that there is competition for things where the amount of people willing to do it is greater than the amount of places available. Sponsorship schemes are a good example of this. Not only that though, but the training itself requires aptitude and as has been said, why spend money on someone who may not be able to cope?

Regarding to your recent question I would advise you to trawl through this forum, plenty has been said about the integrated schools, whether airlines prefer them and many opinions have been expressed about which one is better. You have to make up your own mind. These sort of questions are asked almost daily and I can assure you that the replies given a few months ago will still stand for today.

PS. you may also want to change 'whant' on the thread title to 'want'. That one really is basic, come on!

[apruneuk]

Jaybird

Having read your postings and your profile I would say you are lucky to have the job you've got. I seriously hope this is a wind-up for your sake.

AP

[K.Whyjelly]

Leave the poor guy alone......... according to our illustrious government the quality and calibre of students and examinations is as good if not better than in my day of 'O' Levels and 'A' Levels pre-uni. :hmm:










Yeah right...............................:ugh:

[mcgoo]

k7nrw
you also require the basic ablillity to spell

Yes, you do! :}

[BerksFlyer]

K.Whyjelly

Please, do not think all of the people going through the education system today are intellectually weak. As has always been the case, it just so happens that you get the 'bell shape' graph that shows intelligence across the nation. This has never changed, and I suspect jaybird is (way) to the left of the peak, though looking at his profile I think this is a joke.

I do admit though, it is no fun having to do such easy exams that ask so little of those my age. I guess I'm the one that's laughing though, eh? They're a piece of p*ss :}

[K.Whyjelly]

Sounds like it may be worth my while resitting my quals again to improve my quota of A's as opposed to B's and C's do you think BerksFlyer? :}

[ElSupremo]

Will a law degree help my quest to be a commercial pilot? Is it a degree airlines like? Btw, my A levels were AAB.

[BerksFlyer]

Oh yeah, definitely KY. Leave your job and return to the classroom to be surrounded by rude boys :8

Eradicate those lowly Cs and Bs, maybe weigh in with a few A*s. Afterall, you only need about 55% to get a C on the current GCSEs. Just another ploy of Gordon Brown's to make it look like more are achieving 'average' grades, when really I think it's just that the gap between the brighter pupils and the below average pupils is getting much bigger.

ElSupremo,

Your academic quals are good, and you won't ever be pulled up on AAB at A-level or having a Law degree. If I were you I'd consider the academic hurdle 'cleared' :ok:

[planecrazy.eu]

They normally favour, Science, Physics, Chemistry, Maths and English from what i have been told in the past.

Only one requires good spelling and gramour, otherwise i would have failed Maths and Physics.

The ATPL Theory is a combination of English, Maths and Physics more or less, so asking for those A-Levels could show that you are of lower risk to fail the material. Ontop of that, having done an A-Level, the workload compared to GCSE's is 3 or 4 times greater, so if you can cope with A-Level then i guess you could more than cope with the ATPL's.

However, most people i have met, pilots, wannabes, student pilots, dont have A-Levels. But all i have met on a sponsored course, have had them, i guess they need to filter out applications some way, and why shouldnt people be rewarded for staying in or going back into education.

As for making your results better, do it for yourself, as i dont think sponsors and FTO's really care, as long as they are above a C that is.

[ElSupremo]

So how likely is it that with a law degree etc I could obtain sponsorship? Are my chances significantly higher than others or do most applicants have degrees?

In addition, what is the work load like on these schemes? Will it be as heavy going as a law degree (i.e. I tend to be in uni for 3 or 4 hours/day and then have to work at home for about 3 hours/day... obviously excluding essays, exams etc)?

[preduk]

ElSupremo,

It really depends on the individuals skills... I done Law at University because my skills weren't that great in Maths or Physics (even though I got my Highers in both subjects)

Some people will find it easier than others, for example those who studied advanced maths/physics or those who have worked as engineers in various industries.

The thing a degree does is prepare you for the level of work you will need to put into your course. You will know how to study, how to manage your time and understand the quickest and easiest ways of learning things (you have been studying for 4+ years, you must have mastered it by now! :P )

A degree is good to have regardless of what career your going into, as they are a clear example of determination in a particular area they can also be used as a back up incase you don't get the dream airline job you have been chasing.

However, if an airline believes someone is a better pilot than yourself they will easily pick the skills over the degree.

[Adios]

ElSupremo,

While you were reading law, many successful cadet applicants were studying engineering and thereby getting a better grip on maths and physics. The result is they tend to do better on the technical sorts of aptitude tests. You might do fine and get a sponsorship, but I'd bet more on those with technical/science/engineering degrees. Anyone can defy the odds and I hope you do. They are certainly more on the side of a degree holder of any sort.

[jaybirdc152]

ok i admit my spelling is a bit bad guys but is there need to be so harsh. i still got good GCSE's and ONC. i just never could get the hang of spelling. so i gess unless i sort the spelling out im not realy in with any chance? thanks for the help though guys.

[mad_jock]

Nah jay my spelling, grammar is pretty poor but has got better through the years. But still if I have to sit down and write anything formal it is a struggle.
But dyslexics have better spacial awareness apparently.

Thats not to say give up trying to better yourself people will always pick up on it and even after 30 odd years of getting pulled up and actively avoiding having to write. I feel ****e when someone takes the piss when they read something of mine. They haven't a clue how many hours I spent doing remedial classes or the fact that I very nearly didn't go to uni because I failed 'o' grade english. Bit strange when I had 10 'o' grades, 5 highers and a SYS in physics.

Its always strange its very none PC to take the piss out of someone who is poor at Maths and arith. Have to start taking the piss when the none spelling challanged FO's have to get a calculator out to convert kg's to ltr's for fuel.

And whats more important on an aircraft being able to spell performance or being able to spot a mistake in the load sheet.

[planecrazy.eu]

JayBird***

Never, ever, let any one tell you that you cant be a pilot because of poor spelling, its rubbish.

There are people on this forum who are bitter, they may have failed medicals, tests and just dont have what it takes.

If you want to be a pilot, go get a medical, and then go from there.

The most important thing is a medical, dont matter how clever or how good your spelling is, if you fail the medical, your not going to be a pilot.

Airlines dont do spelling tests, I think verbal reasoning is the closest you'll get to English.

So, if you want to be a pilot, pick up the phone, and get a medical date booked, and then plan the next step when you have the medical in your hand.

[student88]

Has anyone suggested that you go get your medical?

S88:ok:

[Adios]

There are also people on this forum who are airline recruiters who get sick of reading ****e applications and CVs. People who want to be trusted with a very expensive airplane and several hundred lives should perhaps take a bit of extra time to run their writing through a spelling and grammar checking tool. When they are looking for reasons to bin CVs, don't give them the easy excuses. I am not a pilot recruiter, but I can see their point of view. Post all the tosh you want to on PPrune, but at least take the warnings to heart by the time you start sending out CVs.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Honest to God I spent 11 minutes today deciding on the applicability of the word Not.

Sometimes pieces of equipment on aircraft stop working. A big book called an Em E L (MEL) tells you just what bits you don't need under what circumstances. So. You end up reading ACOM Ch2, Section 3, Part 21, Page 2, Para 5... and it says "....blah blah blah...NOT...blah blah blah WHEN".

This is in no way unusual. Today it took me the help of three other grown up, an animated discussion, recourse to a piece of paper and diagram followed by cup of tea and a moments reflection to be sure that we had the meaning of NOT in the correct sense.

Fighter pilot reactions, eagle eyesight, nerves of steel or a winning grin count for nothing in the day to day grind of commercial aviation where interpretation of ill worded, poorly constructed rules made my arbitrary forces on pain of your livelihood forms a part of the normal working day. (My WHAT a long sentence!).

A level English and A level levels of academic reasoning are a good minimum requirement for job selection.

Similarly there should be a maximum limit as well. Far too many people take up professional flying only to become bored and unchallenged by its repetitive and simple nature.


WWW

[Milt]

Not being able to spell and too lazy to use the shift key of the computer is fairly close to illiteracy. Clear communication is essential on the flight deck and radio.

A series of grunts won't do.

Get with it wannabe aircrew.

[Tiger_ Moth]

Hey Jaybird. You do need to work on your spelling and grammar but I'm sure that's something you can manage so I wouldn't worry about it or take to heart what these mean people are saying!
As long as you can put together a decent CV, which with the help of a spell checker and a trusted proof reader wouldn't be too hard, you should do ok.

You will have to decide if you do want to pursue a sponsored route: CTC, netjets etc or if you want to go modular and pay for it yourself. If you do want to go sponsored then you will have to get some A levels. I wouldn't say doing maths and physics will help you that much. I knew I wanted to be a pilot when I chose my A levels but I chose English, History and Theology because I was better at them and enjoyed them more. I did a totally unrelated degree and then got a quasi sponsored place.
In my opinion A level maths or physics has very little to do with the ATPLs so if it doesn't interest you don't do it. When I compare my ATPL results to course mates who did have engineering/ science backgrounds there is no difference.
Degree wise I would say the actual degree itself matters very little. What is important about the degree is that you spent 3 or 4 years living away from home, becoming more independent, maturing as a person and developing social skills.

Good luck Jaybird

[Put1992]

The ATPL ground school is very in-depth, it involves commitment, in fact a huge amount of commitment due to the shear volume of work, more then GCSE I would say!


Would others agree? I would like something to compare it's difficulty to(although it clearly depends on the individual).

[Wireless]

Atlantic Airlines don't ask for A - levels for their cadetship unless they've changed it since I knew the dudes there. I went through the Atlantique cadetship without them and survived the training as did a a lot my pals.

Can understand it's an Airline's way of whittling applicants out, but you don't, when it comes down to it need them for the training at all. Anyone who says otherwise is talking poppycock

[Tiger_ Moth]

sheer poppycock

[IT2Pilot]

A lot of airlines use the A-levels as a way to narrow down and reduce the sheer number of applications. It's not unusual for these schemes to have a couple of thousand applications for say 10 positions...so when you look at it, less than 1% make it through selection.

There is a lot of study to do in a very short period of time, and these schemes are usually limited to applicants under 26 (though not sure if this is still legal under age discrimination laws). Therefore, they use A-levels to see who has a proven track record of being able to study successfully. You have to realise that they are often spending £50k just to get you through to CPL/IR standard, then there is a type rating on top of that. No one simply writes off around £80k to anyone who has a dream to fly.

On the other hand, I was in your shoes and spent 10 years working in IT saving the funds to pay for my own training. I now sit in the right hand seat on a B757. I have a huge loan to repay, but it just shows if you want it that much, it may take some time. Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but best of luck.

[neilcharlton]

20 people started my a- lev physics class at college.
3 people ended up sitting the exam , it was :mad: hard !
3 people passed - i was one of them ... i got a D !
the other 2 both got A stars !

You ethier have an apptitude for that sort of stuff maths / physics or you have to work bloody hard at it like me.

theres a couple of sponserships mentioned on here .. highlandairways and altantic airways which might be worth looking at.

i cant spell either ;-)

i never secured sponsership; back when i was looking then 9-11 happened and all the jobs went tits up.
so always have a back up plan !
my back up plan worked and i'm just looking to buy my first aircraft :-)

[hollingworthp]

I can't comment on other schemes but there is no upper age restriction on the NetJets scheme.

[donPablo]

Can any one tell me what exactly are the A-levels... sounds stupid, but I'm from Poland (oh, god... where is it? huh :)) and tried to compare somehow it to our system. I found some info but it doesn't say much. Main point is when do You chose it and what does it give You, and do airlines want a-levels in sinces, math or are there some exceptions ie. just a-levels in something.

[neilcharlton]

When i applied it was any 2 A-Levels , which are the next thing down before a degree. Some people say A levels are harder than a degree !

They prefer Physics , Maths + other science based qualifications.
I did Physics, Computing , Media.

[Justine]

Just wanted to mention that the engineering qualifications obtained while on an apprenticeship will probably be valued by a recruiting airline. Could well be treated as A-level equivalents.

Someone did mention it before, but it may have got lost in the witterings about grammar and spelling.

[jaybirdc152]

just to say thanks for all your help and since i posted this i have done my first solo and will definately be chasing a carrier in aviation