American werewolves in London

[batty_boy]

Heard a rumour, and its only rumour, that those companies participaring in lendlease agreements are none too happy with the standard of (some of)the aircrew from across the pond.
F/O there Captain here kind of thing. Also heard that the good ole boys think they are being asked to do too much by the CAA, like pass a sim check.

Ive got their licence ,have they got mine?

comments please.

when will the british airways line pilots association force the CAA into doing more to stop this. Or at least give me my money back for my uk atpl.

[IcePack]

Well said, If they fly over here they must have at least a sim check al La CAA.
Bet they have not got a Brit ATPL.
Last year nearly hit one of the American's working for one of our own tour operators in the CFU hold. Yep he on QNH me on standard at FL120 as I remember.
BALPA yes well!

[The Guvnor]

I completely agree. This has long been an issue I have been interested in - and a good example of the US version of 'level playing fields' (ie tilted 45 degrees in their favour).

Under US rules, wet leases of foreign registered aircraft are not premitted. Under UK rules, they are - and this is something that the Yanks take full advantage of - including effectively taking jobs from EU pilots.

Now, I have no problems with that if it's on the basis of reciprocity but with the Americans of course it's one-sided. Atlas Air is probably the biggest culprit over here.

The IPA has been very proactive in this area - BALPA less so, possibly because BA World Cargo leases Atlas B747Fs!! :eek: :eek:

This is, incidentally, one of the main stumbling blocks in the Bermuda II negotiations.

[batty_boy]

I dont really mind their working in europe,I would just like to know why they are not required to meet european academic standards for an atpl. It is not as if they are astounding us with their superb flying skills, apparantly!
I would rather not have had to do the uk atpl and think 80% of it is a waste of time, but it is required, and for those of us who have had the determination to get thru it, this is a slap in the face.The uk atpl is my third and to be honest i would rather have spent the money on hookers and booze, and do my night corfu s on my us atp.I want my money back. where are all the journos whem you need them.
The subject of academics can be brushed under the experience carpet, but when two possibly (and not all) below par foreigners are operating uk aircraft in european airspace with out an eu licence between them and prior experience only in the us then flite saftey is at risk.
prove me wrong and pass the licence.
gft and all.
phew.....

[Skibeagle1]

BALPA suck at this, ALPA wouldnt allow it.

Totally agree with post !

[Stick Flying]

I thought I would re-focus the thread. I certainly agree that "flagging out" at the moment is particularly one-sided and unfair. That is a fair comment. But then to say the British/European license is of a better standard than overseas ones well that is narrow mindedness. I too have a UK ATPL and an overseas License (not FAA) so am in a great position to comment.

I would say the UK version had some great training strengths but also some big weaknesses. This makes it no better than any other authority. The key to a license's strengths are in the attitude of the holder. Flying worldwide has no major changes in principle. It is really only the legislation that is different. Yet the UK accident rate is one of the highest. I also agree that a lot of this may be due to conditions outside of the pilot skill sphere. All I say is get off the high horse regards "us being better pilots than them" and concentrate on the real issue.

I too have UK license holder friends crying out for a job. I would like to see them employed before non-UK license holders. But thats on the basis of loyalty, not skill (or lack of from others).

Stick

[N380UA]

Stick Flying,

Nice comment. Absolutely agree with you. I as well had flight/training under JAA and FAA.
One should never forget that an Aircraft flies in the US just about the same as it would anywhere else in the world. Though there is something to be said about the red tape we are running here in Europe. Flight is being portrayed as mystical event requiring supernatural strengths and ability. Although probably none of us here would concur with the attitude of the European aviation authorities on this aspect, we are at their mercy. As we have found a way to live with it so should any non-European flyer seeking employment within the EU.

[batty_boy]

No one said any licence was better than the other.I trained in the staes and will defend that system for its emphasis on flyin and not books. the point was that the rules are the rules and certain things have to be completed to obtain a uk/jaa licence.
these conditions have not been met by these people and as a result make a mockery of the system and the people that sufferred thru it.
I think the uk/jaa sucks but i went thru the system in order to further my career in europe. i would have been grateful if some one had pointed out that i could have snuck in the back door.to cap it all there are confirmed reports of a constant percentage of our cousins flunking the check rides or line checks, and generally performing badly.
Be nice if we could level the playing field.

the uk syllabus can kiss my .- ... ...
at least i learnt something useful should the germans invade again. i cud tell them to QFU (quickly ..-. ..- -.-. --- ---..-.)

See More on UK Pilot Imports (http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=015131) instead of duplicating threads.

[ 24 August 2001: Message edited by: Capt PPRuNe ]