Tiger Airways eyes Tasman route & set up a pilot training scheme

[Thylacine]

SMH March 6, 2008 - 5:04PM

Singapore-based budget carrier Tiger Airways is contemplating a trans-Tasman service to take on existing players, as it moves to beef up its regional services within Australia.

Chief executive Tony Davis said that services from Australia to New Zealand were "on the radar".

Mr Davis told the Australian Aviation Press Club on Thursday that Tiger would take delivery of two A319 aircraft towards the end of the year as it prepared to launch more services to regional destinations in Australia.

Tiger will add its fifth A320 jet to its Australian fleet next month, which together with the A319s will expand its seating capacity by 65 per cent.

The carrier's A319 jet aircraft will be configured with 144 seats compared with 180 seats on its A320, which will make it lighter and allow it to fly into airports with shorter runways.

"There are scores of destinations across Australia that are crying out for more competition, but are not suitable for 180-seat A320 operations," Mr Davis said.

The A319s are in addition to a further 50 A320s, which Tiger has ordered and will be delivered over the next eight years, that will take its network fleet to more than 70 aircraft by 2016.

As many as 30 of these new aircraft could come to Australia, the airline said.

Mr Davis said Tiger, which flew to 13 destinations in Australia and had its base in Melbourne, was in the midst of negotiating with a number of airports about a second Australian base.

It plans to have five bases in Australia within seven years.

Outside of its Changi airport base in Singapore, Tiger is expanding further in the Asia Pacific region.

It is establishing a hub in Korea and is in negotiations regarding a base in the Philippines.

Mr Davis said Tiger planned to announce a new Tiger hub every 12 to 18 months.

Asked if Tiger plans to fly to Sydney, Mr David said "we're not saying we'll never fly to Sydney".

He said low-cost airline Ryan Air, which Tiger models itself on, "doesn't fly to Heathrow".

RyanAir flies to satellite airports throughout Europe not principal airports.

"Transiting through hub airports like Sydney and Brisbane is what the old airlines do, the legacy airlines, it's not our model."

Mr Davis said Tiger would set up a pilot training scheme and the first intake was expected later this year.

© 2008 AAP

[Wizofoz]

He said low-cost airline Ryan Air, which Tiger models itself on, "doesn't fly to Heathrow".

No, they fly to Luton, Stansted and Gatwick, all as close to central London as
Heathrow.

RyanAir flies to satellite airports throughout Europe not principal airports.

....And as Australia doesn't HAVE satellite airports that can take an A320 (with the possible exception of Avalon), the Ryanair model copletely collapses in an Austarlain context.

Cutting yourself off from by far the most popuklasted region of Australia is not going to lead to a sustainable growth in passengers.

[windytown]

RyanAir flies to satellite airports throughout Europe not principal airports. ....And as Australia doesn't HAVE satellite airports that can take an A320 (with the possible exception of Avalon), the Ryanair model copletely collapses in an Austarlain context.


Nor does New Zealand. I can't imagine Chistchurch or Auckland residents being interested in driving to Dunedin or Hamilton when their respective primary airports already have competitive prices and Palm N has its limits if you want high PAX numbers as Freedom found out.

I could imagine Tiger flying from Gold Coast to several NZ cities incl Wgn and Hamilton as a lower fare option to flights to Brisbane.

[Tankengine]

Tiger will lose big on the Tasman, it is already the lowest yield in QF's network due to Emirates etc. They should stick to higher yield routes [they are out there!]:ugh:

[pilotdude09]

Cant see how they could do very well on the tasman although MEL-DUD could be a winner as well as OOL-DUD could also be alright. As SJ/NZ dont fly it and they are dropping MEL and i cant see why as they have done alright with it.

No one i know has ever been on a flight from DUD which hasnt been close to chockas accross the tasman and people still drive to CHC to get better deals with DJ and JQ so tiger could do alright.

Hamilton might be a good one as well, Queenstown might be able to fill a weekly service from Aussie with the backpacker types. Not sure about Rotorua, could do okay but Hamilton is a couple hours away.

Defintley wont do any good out of AKL, WLG or CHC going there would be pointless and most have the 2 LCC's and the many premium carriers.

Good to see they are setting up a cadet program, will be interesting how it compares to REX's joke...........

[nomorecatering]

My spies tell me that the Wangaratta aeroclub has a close tiw with the head guy at Tiger and is gearing up to set up a cadet school at Wangarrata airport.

Even so, unless they offer a path into Tiger for instructors they will struggle to find Grade 1's and 2's like everyone else.

Intersting times to be an instructor.

[windytown]

Defintley wont do any good out of AKL, WLG or CHC going there would be pointless and most have the 2 LCC's and the many premium carriers.



With Wellington, for flights to Melbourne and Sydney at the present there is only QF and NZ on the routes, and for Gold Coast only SJ about to become NZ (no direct competition).

For Brisbane there are three players but QF is low frequency and DJ only three times a week. NZ 5 or so times depending on season.


Hence there is not that much LCC competition ex -Wgn on most routes.

On the largely leisure routes to OOL and Brisbane ex Wgn only 3 flights are week are with planes with an LCC seating configuration. Many people still go via Auckland.

But who knows which routes DJ will add next ex NZ?

[hot tuna]

Bring it on - the regions have been neglected for years by Air NZ and others.. Tiger will definately shake up the market and expose the soft underbelly of AirNZ ...;)

[dodgybrothers]

you see, thats how easy it is to fix the pilot shortage problem. Just set up a pilot training school and whammo, first intake later in the year and problem solved. Geez, I wonder what every other airline has been doing, they should have called tony davis because he has all the answers!!!

[otto the grot]

The pilot training scheme will most likely involve A320 type ratings and not ab initio as some here are suggesting. As i understand, the trainee will be employed and on the payrole from day 1 as opposed to doing the rating externally without the income to support as with other employers.

This is not a solution to the pilot shortage problem and nor do they see it that way.

[another superlame]

Tiger has the right idea but will struggle to get the permission for satellite airports. Bankstown in Sydney is a great location,close to a huge population base, but I don't think the residents will like larger jets flying in and out.
Richmond Air Force base is so under utilised as an air base that allowing commercial flights makes sense, the fastest growing area in Sydney is the west, a few million people would prefer to drive away from the city and not have to pay tolls or sit in traffic to get their flights.
It was the federal government that wouldn't allow J* to fly from richmond, but now with a new bloke in power this might be able to change.
Williamstown and Townsville are 2 airports that are military and commercial and they seem to work well. I am sure there is more than those 2.
So hopefully someone in power will come to their senses sooner rather than later.

[dodgybrothers]

so let me get this stright Otto, this LCC that prides itself on having the lowest RPKs in the busniness, is going to provide endorsements on their chosen beast, full pay from day 1 and at no cost to the pilot?

I'd like to see that, after all they are Singaporeans.

[otto the grot]

Oh no Dodge. You're still going to have to fork out for the type rating. You just pay it to your employer as opposed to some third party training organization.

[blow.n.gasket]

Same third party training organization that charges nearly twice the going rate that equivalent overseas organizations charge?

No rating with us no job!
No collusion going on here, move along now! :ooh:

[27/09]

Bring it on - the regions have been neglected for years by Air NZ and others.. Tiger will definately shake up the market and expose the soft underbelly of AirNZ ...

Hot Tuna you might be closer to the sun than your location indicates. Your commments don't make sense.

Why do you think the regions have been "neglected" as you put it? Perhaps there's not the business to support services to these regions?

There's a whole range of services that "neglect" the regional areas. Let's use McD's and the Red Sheds or any major chain store as an example. They are only situated where is makes business sense to do so.

New Zealand is a country larger than the British Isles but with a population about half that of London which has about 14% of the total British population. We don't have the population to support all these airlines.

I predict that should Tiger come to NZ they will neglect the regions also.

[Dunnybudgee]

IMHO comparing Fruudum R (sorry - baaaaaaa), with Tiger is apples and oranges.

Freedom had to survive with Hamilton as its hub which was IMHO always just plain stupid. Remember why? Its sole purpose was, in the views of many, to predate Kiwi Air out of the market. It was considered so obvious that an NZ PM of the time even threatened to prosecute Air NZ if they shut down Freedom, if and when Kiwi Air failed... :ooh:

I imagine Tiger will only make the occassional visits to whatever regional airports it thinks are viable.

2 things to remember;

Firstly; population distribution in the North Island has a huge blob centred around the Northern Waikato, and both Hamilton and Tauranga (already has customs / immigration at the sea port and growing very fast) lengthened their runways - they are now A320 capable. So its not so much a case of JAFAs driving down to NZHN, its more likely those from Waikato, BOP, King Country, Coromandel etc making a shortish drive to Mootown or maybe Tauranga (no fog probs).

2nd, it won't be based there... so its survival doens't depend on such a small market. I am guessing Tiger will just cherry pick as is expedient. Maybe MEL-CHC in the Ski season or PNorth / Dunedin to Gold Coast in the Kiwi winter for example...

One things for sure, those guys at Tiger are no muggins. Air NZ might be in for a fright. Although the costs of that outfit are already close to an LCC anyway! :}

Will be interesting to see. I hope Tiger start to offer some jobs to our woolly friends and force the NZ industry to pay real world wages. Just ask the Pac Blue guys, leaving in droves... :ugh:

[Kangaroo Court]

Gentlemen!

Airbus has been offering training slots on their equipment for years as part of the negotiations whilst trying to compete for sales with Boeing. If they are not used, they can be credited back to ILFC or the OEM. Sometimes there is a kickback for same....

Anybody who buys an aircraft from the common market gets free training slots if they weren't born the night before negotiations.

[puma4319]

Does anyone have any more info on this pilot training scheme?
Any info would be greatly appreciated :ok:

[cruisercruiser]

mates, more info will be very much appreciated!

[Q300]

I know the messages in favour of regional Tasman flying (like Hamilton, Dunedin, Rotorua, etc) are old, but it's still important to note that regional airports in NZ have traditionally not been able to support Tasman routes. The demand just isn't there.

The notable exception is Queenstown, but its close to ski fields and is a major tourist trap. Rotorua is somewhat similar. However there is very little to attract people to Hamilton and Palmy, and not all that much at Christchurch. And that's before the ridiculou suggestions of Taupo and other small centres.

Air NZ knows this - so they're not going to do it. They tried (not particularly hard) to make it work at HLZ and PMR and they've lost their flights. I think DUD is losing some/most of their's and I see no reason why they won't lose the rest. It really is use it or lose it, and unfortunately, people don't use them.

Rotorua and Queenstown are the only regional ports that have a decent business case. I might be biased as I'm from Rotorua, and they're already pouring money into work for our non-existent international flights, but that's still my opinion.

Tiger is not going to change this, as much as I would love to see them try.

[troppo]

He who has the deepest pockets wins. Competition is competition only to a point and whoever can sustain a price war the longest wins. I'm sure all lcc's and legacy carriers also look at how trans Tasman services can feed their other international routes from major hubs as well.

[Skystar320]

Why dig up such an old thread?

[topend3]

is there a rule against posting on old threads?

[denabol]

A logical reason for digging up this thread is to see if anyone in the room has heard some really big rumors about Tiger. Well I haven't, but I wouldn't give odds on the alternative possibilities of closure or a completely new route structure taking in Sydney and Brisbane which others claimed could happen in another thread. Someone here suggested yesterday that Adelaide wasn't going to happen. I think Tiger is stuffed.

[Sunstar320]

Someone here suggested yesterday that Adelaide wasn't going to happen. I think Tiger is stuffed.
Adelaide will happen, it has to, to late to pull out. Very damaging PR to pull out, screwing too many pax around and bad PR is not what TT needs:=

You dont need to be inside the Aviation industry to figure out that Adelaide wont strive, especially with those routes they have announced.. Adelaide-Sydney/Brisbane/Cairns is the only way I can see it as making money apart from the Alice and Perth. Goodbye to Canberra and Hobart before Easter from me, no goldmine here:suspect:

Just what do Tiger management see in Adelaide.

[Q300]

Ozjet hyped up Palmerston North services a while, and then pulled out.
It has happened before...

[topend3]

...and DUD will start receiving more attention (domestic and quite possibly international) in the very near future, so if Tiger has considered it then they might need to reconsider in a month or 2.

NZ just pulled services from DUD...

[metrosmoker]

You have to be kidding. They are shrinking domestically, so they decide to take on Qanats, Jet*, Virgin, Emirates, ANZ on would have to be one of the toughest markets in the region. Keep stirring the pot boys. I like it!