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V2-OMG!
26th Feb 2008, 00:15
My dad used to reminisce a lot about "the good-old days" of
airline travel -
when flying was actually thought of as a pleasant lead-in to a business trip or vacation and people would actually dress-up before boarding. Your steak was served on real china with silver cutlery, and the wine and champagne flowed into crystal goblets. Invariably, the good captain, a Marcus-Welby, M.D. type with wings, would take his stroll through the cabin mid-flight. Any white-knuckled flyers relaxed their grip on the armrest as Captain Welby strode confidently down the aisle, laughing politely at the predictable corney jokes or answering the same dumb questions.

"Flying the Friendly Skies" was actually something to look forward to.

Today, most airlines (especially the domestic)
operate in the same no-frills monotone. The only
distinguishing feature is the livery of their planes and the colour of uniform on the flight attendants. The glamour and glory of air travel has been reduced to nothing more than a "bums-on-seat business."

In this threadbare sky, is there any airline which you think are particularly loyal to because they offer something above the others while being competitive? Or, does it really matter? You just search for your cheapest ticket online, print it out, throw some things into a locker-room bag, put on your sweats.... and head to the airport.

BYALPHAINDIA
26th Feb 2008, 00:35
Happy Days Indeed, Unfortunately we now live in a 'here today gone tomorrow' throw away society, Where people do less and less and expect more and more.:ugh:

I hope it will improve, But the confidence has all but gone.

Best Regards.:ok:

BEagle
26th Feb 2008, 07:22
An ex-colleague started his airline days on the DC7C for BOAC. Often they would fly from Prestwick to Gander to cross the pond.

The crew would decide when to meet for breakfast at a high quality hotel nearby. Then, once everyone was ready, the Captain would ask if everyone was ready to go, before they all boarded the bus to operations.

At the crew brief, all would stand up when the Captain entered and all would call him 'Sir'.

Only when he was absolutely happy would they proceed to the aircraft after a short customs check. Then the aeroplane would be inspected; again, the Captain would tell the manager when he was ready for passengers.

In flight, passengers were treated to high quality silver service meals and would be treated like royalty!

Contrast this with the current era of dimwitted jobsworths treating airline crews like dirt, ex-biscuit salesmen runnign airlines and scruffy, ill-mannered lo-co travel-dross being harangued in fractured English by minimally trained cabin staff. And if they're stupid enough to travel on Mikey-the-Pikey's horrible little airline, incessant PAs encouraging them to spend more money on rubbish... "Belt signs are off - you vant buy scratchcard?".

Even Business Class UK-Germany travel isn't as good as charter flights to Spain were in the late 1960s!

The SSK
26th Feb 2008, 08:58
Pal of mine travelling on a BOAC staff ticket London-Rome was upgraded to F. Replete after a sumptuous dinner he declined a dessert but settled for a few grapes from the fruit selection. The steward took a silver bowl, emptied a bottle of champers into it, dunked the grapes in it and handed them to him, then took the bowl back to the galley to (presumably) chuck away the used champagne.

WHBM
26th Feb 2008, 12:56
Ah, the good old days .......

Accident (and fatality) rates 10 times or more what they are nowadays.

Half the fleet never made it to normal end of service before being written off.

Getting somewhere long-haul needed umpteen stops.

Long-term crews tended to deafness in later life.

Very little competition.

Very thin nonstop network compared to today.

Fare London to Australia about 6-12 months average pay.

Even in deveoped countries most had never been in an aircraft.

Airline piloting numbers in the 1950s about 5% of nowadays.

S'land
26th Feb 2008, 15:03
My father used to talk about his first flight and how fantastic it was. He flew back from India pre WWII on an Empire Class Flying Boat. He also used to compare it with being a passenger in the eighties. His conclusion was that on his first flight he had a great deal of luxury and was treated with courtesy by the crew, on modern flights he had less luxury and was still treated with courtesy by the crew. However, for him the biggest differences were that with modern flights journey times were shorter, flying was safer and it was one heck of a lot cheaper.

Having said that, I still envy him his flight on the Empire Class. His stories about it left me wit a lifelong passion for flying boats.

V2-OMG!
26th Feb 2008, 18:04
ALPHAINDIA, good point about people wanting more for less, and airline pax are notorious for that. Nothing grinds my gears more than the $99 "bum on the seat" beside me who demands business/first-class serivce and ammenities. Thank-you for your great observation!

BEagle, "...all would stand up when the Captain entered and all would call him sir." **smiling here ** Obviously, "CRM" wasn't part of the crew vernacular. Although I am a fan of decorum...when it comes those interpersonal relationships in the c/pit, I think I would prefer to err on the right side of safety. Thank-you for reading my post and submitting some of your memories. I did enjoy reading about them!

The SSK, wow! I'm surprised the steward didn't stand over your friend, gently dangling those champagne-infused grapes for him to nibble at...at his leisure!

WHBM, well, call me an incurable romantic...someone who likes to kiss the plane before entering...but I won't get into that now.
You made some valid points, and it is analogous to "The Greatest Generation," which is a North American colloquialism for the WW2 generation who sacrificed all for country in the name of patriotism....mom, country and apple pie, as they call it in America. However, would "The Greatest Generation" have allowed an Afro-American...much less a woman run for president? Thank-you for your insight. Now...excuse me...I have to go kiss another plane. :)

S'land, an Empire class flying boat? That must have been Pan Am. What a shame none of those great Clippers are here today.

PaperTiger
26th Feb 2008, 20:55
an Empire class flying boat? That must have been Pan Am. What a shame none of those great Clippers are here today.Hmm, someone needs to do a bit of revision I think. Empire Class, Clippers, different. BOAC, Pan American, different.

S'land
26th Feb 2008, 21:10
Sorry V2-OMG!, but The Shorts Empire Class were used by Imperial Airways. I think it would have been bad form to have used a foreign airline in those days.

V2-OMG!
27th Feb 2008, 00:55
Hmm, someone needs to do a bit of revision I think. Empire Class, Clippers, different. BOAC, Pan American, different.


Pardon my North American arrogance, but this aviation mind tends to be fixated on this side of the pond.

You are right. Pan Am did not operate the "Empire Class" Clipper.

V2-OMG!
27th Feb 2008, 00:58
Sorry V2-OMG!, but The Shorts Empire Class were used by Imperial Airways. I think it would have been bad form to have used a foreign airline in those days.


S'land, it's not the end of the world! lol!
Thanks for the information. This site is good for expanding that "North American aviation arrogance" which I tend to be inflicted with.

Gee.....there really are other planes up there that aren't made by Boeing.

S'land
27th Feb 2008, 11:07
'Fraid so V2-OMG!. There have even been a few reasonably successful aircraft made by American companies other than Boeing. Shock, Horror, I know. :rolleyes:.

I think that before WWII British airlines tended to buy aircraft from British manufaturers (we had an aircraft industry in them days).

Having said that, BOAC did have three Boeing 314A Clippers.

V2-OMG!
27th Feb 2008, 16:39
S'land, just a bit of trivia....Pan Am used to give all its first class flyers a collectors' plate depicting one of those early Boeing 314s landing at one of their South Pacific ports. I have a friend who was with Pan Am for years and accumulated a lot of their memorbilia...and he kindly gave me one of those plates which I treasure to this day.

Ahhhh...those good old days again. The only "plates" you'll see these days on those no-frill airlines is a paper one!

WHBM
27th Feb 2008, 17:22
...an Empire class flying boat? That must have been Pan Am. What a shame none of those great Clippers are here today.
Goodness this one caused me to choke on my cereal this morning. Mrs WHBM :) wondered what was going on.

S'land is a corruption of Sunderland which was none other than the military version of the Empire, by the same manufacturer, so on reading this he has been very kind not to have blown a cylinder - whoops, that was another feature of US aircraft (especially with Wright engines) which was far less common in those built in the UK.

All in jest. If you want to see a real big flying boat in the US, Kermit Weeks' museum near Orlando, Florida has one, a post-WW2 Short Solent, just a refined Empire really, which you can walk all through, and there's another in Oakland, California.

S'land
27th Feb 2008, 17:45
Well worked out WHBM. S'land is indeed an abbreviation of Sunderland.

Why blow my top about someone making a genuine error? I have made a great many in my life and will make a great many more in the future.

V2-OMG!:
I agree about the different standards (although the last time I flew a cheap airline at Christmas I do not remember even a paper plate), but almost everyone in the developed world can afford to fly. A very different situation from the "silver service" days of yore.

It would be interesting to see the memorial plate.

V2-OMG!
27th Feb 2008, 19:10
S'land...my plate is packed away with most of my other treasures, and I haven't looked at it for a couple of years, but I found a link on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/BAUSCHER-WEIDEN-CHINA-CLIPPER-PAN-AM-COLLECTOR-PLATE_W0QQitemZ360023611803QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360023611 803

And....looks like I screwed up again - unless Hong Kong junks ply the waters of the South Pacific! lol!

S'land
27th Feb 2008, 20:42
V2-OMG!:
The plate shows a Martin M-130, another great aircraft. It could be that yours is of a 314.

WHBM
27th Feb 2008, 21:38
The artwork of the Martin M-130 on the plate looks familiar, I think it is from one of the posters that Pan Am had done in the 1930s. Unfortunately all my reference books on this are up in the attic. You'll recognise a similar-looking picture on this website page, it's of the Boeing 314 but looks like it may have been by the same artist a few years on, possibly Paul Lawler - note even the junk looks pretty much the same ! Enjoy the rest of the website as well :

http://www.flyingclippers.com/main.html

And a Chinese junk would be reasonable as the Martin's main Trans-Pacific service was the China Clipper from San Francisco to Manila and Hong Kong, starting in 1935. The Martin also started the South Pacific route to New Zealand but ran into various problems and operation was intermittent. The second generation of aircraft was the Boeing 314, much more capable, which came into service in 1939 but they never really got properly established either before the war started in the Pacific.

V2-OMG!
27th Feb 2008, 22:51
The plate shows a Martin M-130, another great aircraft. It could be that yours is of a 314.


Well...chit! I can't get nuttin' right on this thread! And if you say it is a M-130, it must be a M-130 because to the best of my knowledge, that was the only plate Pan Am gave out.

I thought it was a B314...but since I don't have the plate with me, I couldn't check the printing on the back of it to see what the a/c was....if in fact that info. is available on the back.

Now gentlemen.....is there anything else you'd like to rectify at this particular moment?

V2-OMG!
27th Feb 2008, 22:58
WHBM, that's a great site, and I did study all the posters.....whilst trembling....in case I made another boo-boo about my blinkin' plate.

The South Pacific poster with the B314 is not my plate, nor is the B314 with the junk the right one either.

The one I made the link to is definitely my plate.



Life's a short runway - use it all.

Teal
28th Feb 2008, 02:42
Apart from the magnificent Pan Am clipper, did you notice the lack of development of Hong Kong Harbour in the 1930s? Just a few low level buildings along the foreshore. A far cry from today's pollution-choked skyline.

V2-OMG!
28th Feb 2008, 02:50
Apart from the magnificent Pan Am clipper, did you notice the lack of development of Hong Kong Harbour in the 1930s? Just a few low level buildings along the foreshore. A far cry from today's pollution-choked skyline.


Absolutely.

The poster of the Clipper arriving at Diamond Head, HNL is similarly magnificent.
http://www.flyingclippers.com/postflight/jd01.html

I wonder what the flt. time from San Francisco to Honolulu would have been in those days?

Teal
28th Feb 2008, 03:01
No idea but the quoted 60 hours from San Francisco to Manila might give you an idea about Hawaii.

Brian Abraham
28th Feb 2008, 04:10
For the length/time of the overall trip of 8,210 miles in 59.8 hours the trip West Coast to Honolulu would be about 17.5 hours.

WHBM
28th Feb 2008, 07:50
I wonder what the flt. time from San Francisco to Honolulu would have been in those days?
Oakland - depart 16.00 Wednesday
Pearl Harbor - arrive 08.30 Thursday

Pearl Harbor - depart 12.00 Noon Tuesday
Oakland - arrive 10.30 Wednesday

Flights were weekly. It took one week from Oakland to Hong Kong; 3 aircaft were required to maintain the weekly schedule.

S'land
28th Feb 2008, 08:32
V2-OMG!:
Sorry not trying to be nit picking, just that I love the Flying boats, even the ones from over the pond. ;)

By the way I thought that the plate was an interesting promotional idea. I wonder if any other airline used a similar marketing ploy.

WHBM:
Great site. I especially liked the posters showing the cut-away drawings of the different boats. I used to have a similar cut-away poster for the Empire boats, but cannot find it. This one is similar, but in black and white.
http://www.imperial-airways.com/Advertisements_new_empire_boats.html

The amount of comfort must have been incredible!

V2-OMG! might like to have a look at the Imperial Airways site as they were a big competitor of Pan Am.
http://www.imperial-airways.com/Menu_page.html

V2-OMG!
28th Feb 2008, 15:47
For the length/time of the overall trip of 8,210 miles in 59.8 hours the trip West Coast to Honolulu would be about 17.5 hours.


Thank-you, Brian. Not terribly long - when spent in the luxurious comfort of the Clipper. I bet it was relatively "noisy" compared to today's jet a/c though. On the was to Australia from the west coast of N. America, we stopped in HNL. (Boeing 767). If I remember correctly, our flt. time was a little over 5 hrs.

V2-OMG!
28th Feb 2008, 15:54
Oakland - depart 16.00 Wednesday
Pearl Harbor - arrive 08.30 Thursday

Pearl Harbor - depart 12.00 Noon Tuesday
Oakland - arrive 10.30 Wednesday

Flights were weekly. It took one week from Oakland to Hong Kong; 3 aircaft were required to maintain the weekly schedule.


WHBM, wow! You're the Wikipedia of aviation! I think I could find a use for you later.

S'land, I'm just joshing with you. I'm not thaaaaaaaaaat sensitive!

V2-OMG!
28th Feb 2008, 16:03
By the way I thought that the plate was an interesting promotional idea. I wonder if any other airline used a similar marketing ploy.



I really do not know, S'land. Pan Am was THE airline of international travel (at least for those in N. America). My friend was very loyal to the company, and I know it was very hard for him and so many other long-time employees when it was run into bankruptcy, and dissolved.
He (my friend) was best friends with the chief pilot of a major U.S. domestic who begged him to join him, but my friend refused, because he said nothing could ever live up to Pan Am.

WHBM
29th Feb 2008, 08:40
WHBM.....I think I could find a use for you later.
Mrs WHBM :) wishes to advise that I am already taken .....
Pan Am was THE airline of international travel HUGEST Harumppphhhhhh ......

OK. Just to add where you can find some of the items referred to on the web, for those interested.

The Pan Am pre-WW2 flying boat schedules are all here:

http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/pa39/

and page 4 in there, table 12, is the place with the transpacific Clipper schedule. You have to get up all the pages separately but each is a fascination as it appears.

The Imperial Airways Empire timetable from Britain to Australia in 1939 is here:

http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/iaw39aus/

The main Timetable Images site has a great selection of complete timetables (not just the front covers but all the pages) from long ago.

A whole closely-researched book on the web (all 220 pages of it) about the Imperial Airways Short Empires is here :

http://www.users.waitrose.com/~mbcass/Flying%20Empires.pdf

(attention: big download) which for those who are into the detail of the Empire flying boats, both construction and operation, is a good evening's read.

S'land
29th Feb 2008, 14:04
WHBM:
thanks for the links, I had not seen the e-book on the Empires before, it will make good reading later.

Regarding your "HUGEST Harumppphhhhhh ......". In fairness to V2-OMG!, she did add "(at least for those in N. America)" to her post. Just 'cos these colonials thought (wrongly) they had the best airline dose not mean we should harumph them - we should help them to get a proper education. :rolleyes:

V2-OMG!
29th Feb 2008, 18:38
Mrs WHBM :) wishes to advise that I am already taken .....


I can assure you and the "Mrs." that my interest is purely academic.

V2-OMG!
29th Feb 2008, 18:41
Regarding your "HUGEST Harumppphhhhhh ......". In fairness to V2-OMG!, she did add "(at least for those in N. America)" to her post. Just 'cos these colonials thought (wrongly) they had the best airline dose not mean we should harumph them - we should help them to get a proper education. :rolleyes:

Thanks for being my Doberman Pinser, I think.

Now, what kind of "education" do you think I need help in, S'land?

Is it academic....or otherwise? :\

Lobo3
29th Feb 2008, 21:59
When one such as myself does a (look back) in aviation,it really is sad to think of the Major Changes that have come to pass,what with Terrorism and other Frightening things out there in the World! The old chestnut"You can't Go Back"is sadly all too real in this instant! I am sure that everyone will agree with me when I say that Airplanes Belong in the Sky doing whatever job is being asked of them and they do look better when they are whole,working at optimum levels and of course"FLYING"! It is not cool to see an airplane DOWN,I love to see em working and there are people out there that really really want to bring these works of art to harm! It was always a pleasure to travel back in the day! Remember always being asked if all was well and what can be done to make this trip a success! The food was first class all the way,I honestly do not remember a bad meal or for that matter flight! As a child I was always welcome in the Cocpit,I am also a past member of the B.O.A.C.Junior Jet Club! My Log-book is full of memories and I would not be suprised to learn that some of the Pilots that signed my Log-book would like a look at those flights and all of the interesting things that went on in those times so long ago! Any how just a quick Thank You to all of those Gentlemen and one Lady Captain who helped a kid get into flying and all else that comes with!:D

S'land
29th Feb 2008, 23:19
Good point LOBO3, but not so much depressing as having to adapt to different times. My father made his first flight before WWII, when flying was something most people could only dream of. I made my first flight when I was five and a half in a DC3. The world had changed. Although it was still not that common to fly more people were able to fly. My three year old great niece made her first flight when she was six months old and has already made six flights and thinks that it is normal to fly. Yes, they were tourist flights and the service was not to the silver service standard that my father had on his first flight, but millions of people are now able to experience the joy of flight.

The nostalgic part of me would love to see the flying boats and some of the great propeller driven aircraft running regular passenger services, but is is no longer practical.

I agree that any aircraft is better when it is doing what it was designed and built to do - Flying, but when they cannot fly one has to accept second best and see them in static display. Failing that we can at least photographs of them.

The strange, but good thing, for me is that in all in the great many flights that I have made over the years I can only remember one instance where a member of the crew was unhelpful and not prepared to give the best possible service that they could.

V2-OMG!
29th Feb 2008, 23:28
Lobo, thank-you for sharing those memories. And yes....back in the golden age of jet travel, who would have ever imagined that those sleek airplanes that could get us places faster than ever before would someday be flown into buildings in the name of "terrorism".....and aviation....and the world would never be the same again.

Sadly, those days of kids visiting the c/pit are long over. I loved what you wrote - about being a member of the "Junior Jet Club," and the inspiration of those kindly flight crews from yesteryear.

Congratulations on really reaching out and "touching that cloud."
Despite those who think of airline travel as nothing more than a "necessary evil," I still like to think of it as a necessary joy....especially when I look up see a contrail and think, we can never go back...but there is still so much to look forward to.

V2-OMG!
29th Feb 2008, 23:32
The nostalgic part of me would love to see the flying boats and some of the great propeller driven aircraft running regular passenger services, but is is no longer practical.


S'land....I often think back and wonder about those days....when those propeller-driven aircraft orchestrated the sky. I live in an area which is base to an aerial fire-fighting company which utilizes the DC-6. Sometimes I am privy to the sound of that propeller "orchestra"....and I love it!

Lobo3
1st Mar 2008, 00:54
I agree that Flying Boats are impractical but I think that with a little hard work and a lot of nerve,it should be possible to get one up and running just for certain people willing to come up with the long green to take a trip around the world in the former luxury of such a machine!I know that I would sell my soul to join in on a venture such as that!:cool:

Teal
1st Mar 2008, 05:31
I live in an area which is base to an aerial fire-fighting company which utilizes the DC-6. Sometimes I am privy to the sound of that propeller "orchestra"....and I love it!V2-OMG! - I too live not far from an airport where the fire-fighting services utilise a DC-3 to transport and deploy strike-teams to wildfire areas. During busy summer campaigns it can be seen flying in and out every few hours. (You hear it long before you see it!). I read an interview recently with the owner and he said it is the only aircraft that can fly "25 fat firefighters" and equipment into and out of remote fireground locations.:)

Teal
1st Mar 2008, 05:41
that propeller "orchestra"....and I love it!Likewise - hard to beat the sound of the Super Constellation at full power. Have seen one restored bird at several airshows and airport anniversary celebrations and it sends a shiver up your spine. You know its special when the tower controllers come out onto the balcony to watch and listen as it takes off...:ok:

Lobo3
1st Mar 2008, 13:39
I want to take back that word(CERTAIN)Back,! I meant to say anybody!

twochai
1st Mar 2008, 15:05
It was not so long ago one got a slice of beef off the carving trolley in F - BOAC during the seventies. Even TWA asked how you wanted your breakfast eggs and promptly the smell of frying eggs and bacon wafted back from the galley followed by two, sunnyside up with crispy bacon!

S'land
1st Mar 2008, 15:18
V2-OMG!:
that propeller "orchestra"

A perfect and poetic description.

Lobo 3:
I would sell my soul to join in on a venture such as that

And just about everything else as well, but it would be worth it.

twocha:
What about Lufthansa? I rememeber the days when as you boarded the aircraft the Cabin Crew would even notice if you had a button coming off of your jacket, take the jacket away from you and return it with the button sewn on properly. Happened to me the first time that I flew Luthansa in the seventies.

pigboat
1st Mar 2008, 15:20
Not an orchestra, but some great solo efforts here (http://www.enginehistory.org/sounds.htm). Click on the Hawker Tempest page at the bottom and follow the links to the Napier Sabre sounds. I hate using the word awesome, but in this case it does apply. :O

V2-OMG!
1st Mar 2008, 20:10
Teal, "the only airplane that can carry 25 fat firefighters..." lol! Love it!
That seems to be the angst of most airlines these days - those "hefty" pax are jacking up the fuel costs. I've never seen a Connie in person, never mind heard one, but sure would love to hear that purrrrrrrr one day.

Twochai, from what I gather, the airlines in those days tried to "one up" each other when it came to the skirt length of the FAs and thickness of those slabs of beef. It seems the skirts got shorter...but the beef got thicker. (No pun intended! lol!!!!!!!!!!!!)

pigboat, thanks for the link. I will check it out.

WHBM
1st Mar 2008, 22:07
I agree that Flying Boats are impractical but I think that with a little hard work and a lot of nerve,it should be possible to get one up and running just for certain people willing to come up with the long green to take a trip around the world in the former luxury of such a machine!I know that I would sell my soul to join in on a venture such as that!
Unfortunately, much as we might wish for this, the fact is that there isn't a market for this, as has been shown. A few years ago an operator tried a Catalina Flying Boat excursion down the length of Africa, aimed at exactly this market. They got a few planeloads, sort of, and that was it. I believe they lost money on it.

Lobo3
1st Mar 2008, 22:10
Thanks pigboat,those sound links are something else! The V-1 was cool and the others as well! Along with the tech. drawings and spec. sheets quite the link,OH Yeah!:cool:

Lobo3
1st Mar 2008, 22:19
The idea of a flight around the world on an Empire Class Flying Boat with all the trimmings works for me though! I guess it would be spensive but what are you gonna do? I know it's up there in the Idealists Dream Book but dreaming ain't so bad isit?:E:E:E

pigboat
2nd Mar 2008, 00:24
Lobo3 that V1 clip is something isn't it? I cannot imagine how folks must have felt hearing one those things for real, hearing the motor cut out and wondering where that thing was going to hit.

WHBM in my opinion if ever an enterprise deserved success, that one flying tourists down the length of Africa did. That aircraft is now owned by the Catalina Group of New Zealand (http://www.catalina.org.nz/). While I've never worked directly for them, I remember the aircraft as CF-JCV of Austin Airways. We used to do some contract work for them each autumn on the James Bay goose hunt with one of our PB's, back in the early 1960's. This gentleman (http://www.chuckellsworth.com/) is a member of PPRuNe, and has mucho time on JCV.

bushy
2nd Mar 2008, 00:54
When we weren't good, and we weren't old.

Lobo3
2nd Mar 2008, 16:23
AMEN! I gotta agree,we was bad when we was good!

V2-OMG!
2nd Mar 2008, 23:30
Unfortunately, much as we might wish for this, the fact is that there isn't a market for this, as has been shown. A few years ago an operator tried a Catalina Flying Boat excursion down the length of Africa, aimed at exactly this market. They got a few planeloads, sort of, and that was it. I believe they lost money on it.


The demographics just aren't there. This would appeal to the "Greatest Generation" who are dying off. The large demography of baby boomers, who are also the richest generation, just cannot relate to it because it was before their time.

WHBM
4th Mar 2008, 09:23
It was not so long ago one got a slice of beef off the carving trolley in F - BOAC during the seventies. Even TWA asked how you wanted your breakfast eggs ......
Just as a contrast to this here is an account of the meals on an Skyways Handley Page Hermes, London Stansted to Singapore, in April 1957. It is in "Britain's Airlines 1951-64" by Guy Halford-MacLeod (Tempus Publishing 2007).

Depart Stansted 2000 Day 1. Meal "poor quality". Meat pasty, potatoes, peas.
Brindisi arrive 0350 Day 2. Meal on ground "very poor quality served on filthy tables".
Brindisi-Baghdad. "In-flight lunch box, mediocre in quality, quantity adequate".
Baghdad 1245 Day 2. Meal on ground "tea, mainly of fruit, rather frugal".
Baghdad-Karachi. "Cheese sandwiches and biscuits, inadequate".
Karachi 2110 Day 2. "Tea and cake" on arrival.
Overnight stop in Karachi. Hotel meals "particularly good".
Karachi-Delhi. Nothing.
Delhi 1710 Day 3. "Food first class" on ground.
Delhi-Calcutta. Nothing.
Calcutta 2250 Day 3. "Meals good" on ground.
Calcutta-Bangkok. "Tomato sandwiches and biscuits", which had been uplifted in Karachi. Tomatoes had "peculiar taste".
Bangkok 0530 Day 4. "Food good" on ground.
Bangkok-Singapore. Nothing.

"Some 24 hours after landing the greater part of the team suffered chronic stomach pains accompanied by .... [gory details deleted !] .... This was attributed by the M.O. at Changi to food poisoning and is apparently a relatively common occurence among passengers travelling by aircraft. Karachi is suspected by the M.O as the source of the food poisoning...

S'land
5th Mar 2008, 16:41
Just discovered an interesting fact about Imperial Airways.

It seems that in April 1925 they showed the film "The Lost World" to passengers flying from London (Croydon) to Paris. This was the first time that an inflight film was shown to airline passengers.

Warmtoast
6th Mar 2008, 09:47
The Good Old Days

Flatus Veteranus posted a wonderfully descriptive and long account of a trip from Poole Harbour to Rangoon in 1940 in this forum (27th January 2002). He travelled by Imperial Airways flying-boat RMA Caledonia.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=48484

A37575
6th Mar 2008, 12:09
At the crew brief, all would stand up when the Captain entered and all would call him 'Sir'

I would have thought that is a perfectly normal thing to do?

Brian Abraham
7th Mar 2008, 01:19
PanAm crews stood to attention dock side to under go inspection by the Captain, even down to finger nails.

Loved the story though of an airline CEO in the early days walking into the waiting lounge and upon seeing an individual sitting there who he took to be an employee promptly gave him the sack. Turned out to be a passenger waiting for a delayed flight.

Fantome
7th Mar 2008, 02:15
Never assume that the daggy looking man lounging in a chair is a bogan or a slackarse. "Screwball" Beuling, a revered character, WW11 fighter pilot and ace and true blue soldier of fortune, would lounge, often fast asleep, in some mess looking all out dishevelled. He was a S/L but his rank was usually concealed beneath a battered old Irvin jacket. Should some jumped up flight looie fall into the trap of bawling him out, as recounted somewhere by Pierre Closterman, Beuling would let him finish his rant, then without a word and ignoring god's gift entirely, saunter over and order a beer, taking off his jacket as he did.

ampan
7th Mar 2008, 06:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84EoBQfdrb0

PaperTiger
13th Mar 2008, 18:05
Just discovered an interesting fact about Imperial Airways.

It seems that in April 1925 they showed the film "The Lost World" to passengers flying from London (Croydon) to Paris. This was the first time that an inflight film was shown to airline passengers.Maybe. http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/aerommov.htm although this wasn't a scheduled flight, I grant you.

virgo
13th Mar 2008, 18:53
Several years ago the BBC ran a series of programmes entitled "Yesterday's Witness", one of which was on the subject of Aviation between the wars.

All of it was interesting but I particularly remember the reminiscence of a chap who'd been the assistant station manager at Cairo in the thirties who explained how the Australia bound passengers were able to buy Imperial Airways "money vouchers" in London, which could be used throughout the network at resthouses and hotels, thus saving the need to change currencies several times.
He continued his story to relate how, once a month, the Madam of the local "Pleasure House" would turn up at his office with a handfull of Imperial Airways Vouchers for redemption. He added that it was an agreeable characteristic of the British Empire of that time, that a) She took them in payment and b) Imperial Airways cheerfully paid up in full !
(He added that as a young and very innocent young man, it surprised him that the sort of people who flew with "Imperial Airways" should want to avail themselves of such services !)

Happy Days.

S'land
13th Mar 2008, 22:24
Paper Tiger:
Accepted that this was the first film shown in flight, beating Imperial by four years. I did not know about this one, but it begs the question "why did it take the airlines so long to take up the idea of in flight films"?

Virgo:
It seems that people were much more broad minded in those days than we are led to believe:

Old Hairy
14th Mar 2008, 17:40
I have really enjoyed reading this thread,especially FV"s account of the trip from Poole to Rangoon in 1940. I have a vested interest,my father flew with Imperial Airways almost from its inception until 1939.At one time he was FO to Captain O.P.Jones who was GOD,even in his own estimation.I later followed in the Paters wake and spent three happy years on Sunderland Mk.V.
It certainly was an era not to be forgotten.

A small correction to a post after FV's account Nether IA or BOAC operated out of Calshot.They were based out of Southampton New Docks,near the pier and later at Poole during the war.Aquila subsequently also operated out of Soton, The maintenance was the other side at Hythe.

WHBM
14th Mar 2008, 17:51
the Madam of the local "Pleasure House" would turn up at his office with a handfull of Imperial Airways Vouchers for redemptionThis story also in "Beyond the Blue Horizon" by Alexander Frater.

as a .... very innocent young man
Presumably not for long if he encashed the vouchers without question !

chornedsnorkack
14th Mar 2008, 19:37
the Madam of the local "Pleasure House" would turn up at his office with a handfull of Imperial Airways Vouchers for redemption. He added that it was an agreeable characteristic of the British Empire of that time, that a) She took them in payment and b) Imperial Airways cheerfully paid up in full !

Are any pleasure houses partners of frequent flyer programs - either allowing the customers to earn miles with purchases or else allowing the redemption of frequent flyer awards?

Old Hairy
15th Mar 2008, 15:01
As an aside to FV's marvellous story,I checked my old logbook for 1953 and found the route we used to ferry Sunderlands back to UK at end of tour:


Seletar to Glugor(Penang)...........5:10
Glugor to China Bay(Ceylon as was)...9:35
China Bay to Korangi Creek (Karachi)...12:10
Korangi Creek to Bahrain........7:05
Bahrain to Fanara.......9:40
Fanara to Marsaxlokk(Malta)....7:10
Marsaxlokk to Pembroke Dock...10:30

Quite an interesting flight,except for Fanara!!!

Brian Abraham
16th Mar 2008, 00:00
why did it take the airlines so long to take up the idea of in flight films

To hazard a guess there may have been little demand as flying itself was such a novelty. Ticked me off no end when asked to close the blind by cabin staff so they could show some naff movie. I enjoyed watching the unfolding vista nature had to provide. After spending the price of entry I sure didn't want to miss the spectacle to be had - Grand Canyon, Rockies, sunset/rise etc etc.

V2-OMG!
17th Mar 2008, 19:55
Wow! I've been away from the forum for a couple of weeks...but thanks for your ongoing replies.

Teal
18th Mar 2008, 12:09
Attended a small dinner party last Saturday night at a friend's house that is just 300 metres from the historic Essendon Airport perimeter fence and almost underneath the 17/35 flightpath. At dusk a tremendous roar suddenly stopped all conversations, and from the rear garden we looked across the rooftop and saw the 'Gooney Bird' DC-3 climbing out of the airport. What a sight and sound! The owners offer nostalgic dinner flights each week, as well as other charters. Not quite a Pan Am Clipper but memorable flights nonetheless.

Fly them back to the 1940s with this nostalgic gift. The 'Gooney Bird', a historic and majestic aircraft, will take them over Melbourne, along the bay, and let them watch the sun set. Commencing and finishing at the beautiful Silver Clipper Lounge in Essendon airport, this memorable gift includes aperitifs, dinner, wine, and chocolates.http://www.wishlist.com.au/registries/Product/ProductDetail.asp?SKUID=17660

http://www.shortstop.com.au/brown.html

In 2003 this aircraft and two other DC-3s flew into nearby Moorabbin Airport for an anniversary celebration. Some nice pics of the three aircraft at the link below:

http://www.travelcentre.com.au/travel/airshows/DC3/morrabin_flyin.htm

ampan
20th Mar 2008, 04:32
Great stuff.

Greatest-ever passenger aircraft: DC3 v 737.

I would go for the 737, despite that one design fault. But that's only because of the enormous volume of pax it has carried cf with the DC3. The DC3, although primative by modern standards, had no design faults.

(Of course, if you're allowed one design fault, then what about the DC10 and MD11?)

V2-OMG!
23rd Mar 2008, 22:06
I think the DC-2, DC-3 and beyond are one of the most memorable messengers of humanity's good and evil:
Shirley Temple dances down the aisle of a DC-2 while singing about "The Good Ship Lollipop."
The DC-3 teaches the world to fly.
The C-47 assists in the liberation of Europe
The DC-4 and 6 expand that world even further.
The DC-8 helps launch the jet age.
And the AC-47 gunship becomes one of the most powerful troop support a/c in Vietnam.

What a history!

V2-OMG!
10th Oct 2008, 17:00
I have really enjoyed reading this thread,especially FV"s account of the trip from Poole to Rangoon in 1940. I have a vested interest,my father flew with Imperial Airways almost from its inception until 1939.At one time he was FO to Captain O.P.Jones who was GOD,even in his own estimation.I later followed in the Paters wake and spent three happy years on Sunderland Mk.V.
It certainly was an era not to be forgotten.

I posted this thread awhile ago - just pulled it to reread because the sharing of these memories likewise should not be forgotten.

overfly
10th Oct 2008, 21:08
reviving an old thread even more -
V2-OMG et al, there were 6 Pan Am plates in total, I have the set.... :ok:

Sikorsky S-38
Ford Tri-Motor
Sikorsky S-42
Martin M-130
Connie
B-377 Strat

V2-OMG!
10th Oct 2008, 23:39
reviving an old thread even more -
V2-OMG et al, there were 6 Pan Am plates in total, I have the set...

Wow! Lucky you! I just have the one I mentioned. I sure would love the Connie edition.

Pan Am was "the" airline. When it went under, my friend was offered a position with a domestic carrier but turned it down. He said after all his years with Pan Am it would have seemed rinky-dink to him, so took early retirement.

WHBM
11th Oct 2008, 11:31
..... there were 6 Pan Am plates in total, I have the set....
Any chance you could post 6 photographs ? Several of us here would be most appreciative.

overfly
12th Oct 2008, 10:07
OK then - now where's that sticky on posting pics...

overfly
12th Oct 2008, 10:46
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo137/mgdavid/DSCN3993.jpg

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo137/mgdavid/DSCN3994.jpg

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo137/mgdavid/DSCN3995.jpg

how's this sample?

overfly
12th Oct 2008, 10:49
blimey, first time :ok:
still, I have worked in IT for 30+ years....
more to come (pics that is..)

overfly
12th Oct 2008, 13:47
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo137/mgdavid/DSCN3996.jpg
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo137/mgdavid/DSCN3997.jpg
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo137/mgdavid/DSCN3998.jpg
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo137/mgdavid/DSCN3999.jpg

WHBM
12th Oct 2008, 17:23
I think a number of us here would want to send a very big "thank you" to Overfly for putting these pictures on here. They are great.

renfrew
12th Oct 2008, 19:41
I had a look on e-bay just now and they have one of the Pan American plates listed.
There was a similar set of very attractive Imperial Airways plates which I have occasionally seen on offer.

V2-OMG!
12th Oct 2008, 21:48
Overfly, THANKS so much.

I was drooling over all of them!

dhavillandpilot
13th Oct 2008, 04:15
Although not in the same league as one of the empire flying boats. Have a look at this web site http://www.heronairlines.com.au/australia2london/austolondon.pdf these people flew a metro liner from Australia to London and return with paying passengers. Apparently they are doing it again next may 2009

Blacksheep
13th Oct 2008, 12:21
A very different situation from the "silver service" days of yore.
What a load of tripe - there are and never were any "Good Old Days." The best days, as always, are right now.

Compare those "silver service" days properly with top-of-the-line travel today. In the Boeing Clipper/Shorts Empire days, EY was by ship - and second or third class at that. All air travel was first class by definition and the experience and service was rubbish compared to what you'd receive today on an SIA "Suite Class" trip. And, since the equivalent of "Suite Class" was also by ship - but in First Class - what you really need to compare those "Good Old Days" with is the Private Jet.

zimbird
2nd Nov 2008, 22:07
:O So sorry; it has been a while... make that West Chiltington, Pulborough, on his address in the '70s

I was doing a web search on my Grandfather, Captain O.P. Jones & was pleased to find your thread.

My father, Peter (also Captain O.P. Jones, as is my brother -- minus the 'Capt.' -- the initials O.P. being a generations old family tradition always bestowed on the first born son) was a bomber pilot in Burma in WWII.
He was my Grandfather. O.P. Jones' only child. He met my mother at the local swimmimg baths in Bulawayo, Rhodesia, whilst on a weekend pass from training for his Burma tour of duty.
My dad came straight back to Rhodesia after the war to marry my mum. I am the youngest of three children (girl, boy, girl) with my brother being the last in the line of O.P. Joneses as he did not have any sons; only one daughter.
As my father died following a 4 year illness, an acute form of encephlomyalitis when I was 10 yrs old, my siblings and I are keen to find out if anyone out there remembers him and can supply us with their own recollections and memories of Peter.
We met my grandfather a few times as children in Rhodesia and I subsequently spent occasional periods of time at his home on Spinney Lane in West Chiltington, Sussex between 1972 and 1975 when I lived in London in my early twenties and also worked for B.O.A.C. which became B.A. whie I worked for them.
We never got to meet our Grandmother, Olive Jones who died from we know not what, when we were still children.
Should anyone reading this also happen to have met or known both O.P. AND Olive Jones, it would be very valuable to me personally to find out what you knew about her.
As far as my Grandfather goes, he was an aloof, distant man, more of an animal lover than he was with his fellow human beings, and ever the straight-backed, dignified Gentleman, unless and until, to the perpetrators' misfortune, he witnessed cruelty towards animals. THEN woe-betide the poor soul who hurt that animal!

Mr Oleo Strut
21st Oct 2013, 01:50
What memories this brings back as a child of Airwork and Britavia Hermes trooping flights to and from Kenya...arriving at Khartoum in a very hot aircraft, the aircraft doors opening with such a blast of hot air ... searing heat on our way over to the terminal...and what did they give us to eat...steaming hot brown stew, carrots and mash...I can still remember the large carafes of iced water with the condensation running down the outside. But Dad wouldn't let us drink the water 'in case it was dirty' ...talk about torture! Late-night arrival at RAF Luqa, Malta, after a very rough flight from Entebbe...and we sat down to the greasiest, cold egg and bacon breakfast. Revolting! Opening up the in-flight cardboard box of food doled out at Blackbushe and finding the tiredest of old ham sandwiches, accompanied by a black banana and sad apple. Luckily Mum had brought a couple of packets of chocolate Kunzle cakes...remember them? Another night landing...at El Adem, Libya, for dinner...but the terminal was deserted...they'd got tired of waiting and gone home, leaving just cold tea and biscuits. But it wasn't all bad and I still savour the wonderful taste of army sausages, chips and tinned tomatoes at Nairobi on our arrival. Happy days!