Passenger dies on American Airlines flight -- No oxygen?

[Eboy]

" After the flight attendant refused to administer oxygen to Desir, she became distressed, pleading, "Don't let me die," Oliver recalled.

Other passengers aboard Flight 896 became agitated over the situation, he said, and the flight attendant, apparently after phone consultation with the cockpit, tried to administer oxygen from a portable tank and mask, but the tank was empty.

Two doctors and two nurses were aboard and tried to administer oxygen from a second tank, which also was empty, Oliver said.

Desir was put on the floor, and a nurse tried CPR, to no avail, Oliver said. A "box," possibly a defibrillator, also was applied but didn't function effectively, he said.

"I cannot believe what is happening on the plane," he said, sobbing. "She cannot get up, and nothing on the plane works.""


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8V136T00&show_article=1

[CSilvera]

It will be interesting to see the other side of the story too. ME said she died of natural causes.

[PAXboy]

Bear in mind that, for many people, when a serious failure of a bodily system occurs (heart or brain) even if they are already in a hospital, their chances of surviving are very small.

Now, that does not relieve the carrier of their duty to ensure that all medical supplies are up to date and ready for service. All staff and equipment must be ready to help, although, they are only able to provide for routine and low level emergencies.

Therefore, if it is discovered through the post mortem that the failure was such that she was going to die irrespective - the worry is for all pax travelling with that carrier who might need low level medical support.

[hellsbrink]

CSilvera, as posted in the other thread on this,

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jzOOWDGwfV_RXxHo0lU_QeMrlu5gD8V1GRGG1

[PAXboy]

The article linked from hellsbrink gives this info:

Wilson said the defibrillator was used but that the machine indicated Desir's heartbeat was too weak to activate the unit.
and
Desir died of complications from heart disease and diabetes, said Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner's office.

That is the answer from the post mortem. Whether or not oxygen would have helped will only be known following the inquest. For those that are not familiar with diabetes, heart failure is one of the prime causes of death. Diabetes is an illness that builds long and slow but, when it has reached a critical point, the consequences arrive VERY quickly. Heart failure and stoke being the two usual events.

[Contacttower]

Whether or not it would have saved her, and it is very tragic that she died, it is rather worrying that the oxygen bottles were apparently empty.

[PAXboy]

Indeed Contacttower, but we will never learn whether the bottles were empty or not.

In that article from Associated Press, the CC is reported as saying:
The flight attendant responded, "OK, but we usually don't need to treat diabetes with oxygen, but let me check anyway and get back to you."

Which is true, but it appears that the pax was suffering from a symptom of diabetes. I have a lot of sympathy for the CC as they will have been taught about Hypos and Hypers. Since the pax stated that she was diabetic, the CC would have focussed on that. Either way, it should give the carrier the impetus to double check their supplies across the fleet and ensure that all staff know the correct procedure.

I should add that I am not a medical person, but I share a house with a long term diabetic who experiences many of the problems with blood circulation that are a direct result of the condition.

[hellsbrink]

Who is saying the o2 bottles were empty, contacttower? Of course, it is the cousin who made a phone call to Fox.

AA are saying TWELVE o2 bottles were on the flight, all were checked pre-flight and were full and at least two were actually used. Now, since there were 4 medical personnel on the flight who actually attended the poor woman I would say that if there was any truth in the "empty o2 cylinders" and "non-functional defib" statements from said cousin of the deceased would have been confirmed by now so if you can find a report contradicting the AP link above I think we would all like to see it.

PS. A post mortem would not show that the heartbeat was too weak for the "automatic defib" to work, that would have come from the flight crew AND the medical personnel who attended the woman inflight. And even a "proper" defib, as used by trained paramedics, etc, would not necessarily have helped.

[TFlyguy]

Defibs and the principle behind their working:

They are designed to give the heart a short electric shock but only when the heart is in "ventricular fibrillation" hence the name de-fibrillators. When the heart is in this state the electric shock momentarily stops the heart with the hope that when it restarts it will be in the correct (sinus) trthym

If, in the above case, the heart had a beat, albeit weak, then no the defib would not shock it - its not designed to.

Inflight Medical Care never my strong subject so please correct my mistakes including spelling!

[hellsbrink]

True, but an automatic defib needs to be able to "sense" the actual heartbeat before it can decide whether to shock or not. Now, if the patient's heart has suddenly stopped completely or is too weak then the machine will not be able to get the info it needs and will not do a thing. This could be why the cousin stated that the machine didn't work.

A tragedy for all those involved, there is nothing worse than performing CPR when there is no hope of it working and the relatives of the woman should realise that sometimes it is impossible to save a life no matter what anyone does.

[PAXboy]

This could be why the cousin stated that the machine didn't work.Indeed, whereas according to the ME, the machine functioned correctly by detecting that her heart was beating, albeit softly. I suspect that too many people have see to may scenes from 'ER' where a defibrillator restores a person to life, even after many minutes. That is not what usually happens in real life.

Further, if the pax was in great distress and experiencing a heart attack, then she would not be able to draw oxygen and would say that the bottle was empty.

I dare say that, once the full inquest is held, the family will understand the big picture. But no corrective report will be made in the newspapers.

[hellsbrink]

Well, the medical staff that helped would not administer o2 if the patient was not breathing, so there must have been something when the o2 was used.

But it looks like nothing could possibly have been done to save her, even if she was on the ground and at home. In fact, it sounds like if she was on the ground there would have been an even lower chance of survival as it would have taken med personnel longer to get there and even with a full paramedic kit those minutes are crucial.

But it definitely wasn't AA's fault in any way

[Blues&twos]

With oxygen therapy, the O2 isn't drawn by the patient, it flows to the mask regardless of whether it's being used (unlike Entonox, the pain relief gas which has to be demanded from the cylinder by the patient).

[thelummox]

Might be just me, but can anyone else detect the ambulance chasers out for a perceived easy buck out of AA ? Perhaps the real story should be why was someone who was apparently so ill, flying in the first place, and why her family is slating those who tried to help her, instead of accepting the inevitiable. The limited info suggested the AA crew followed their protocol by contacting Medaire for advice, rather than merely doing what an unknown person wants.

If doctors and nurses can't save you, guess the reality is your number is up. To all the ambulance chasers, and those blaming everyone else for the bitch hand that life can deal to us all....cry me a river......I'm sick of people trying to blame everyone else for problems that can't be helped.

[hellsbrink]

I wouldn't go as far as saying she was so ill, with diabetes things can happen in an instant with no warning whatsoever.

One of my aunt's was a perfect example of that, despite her diabetes being fully controlled for years one day she was walking down the street and her heart just stopped. She was effectively dead before hitting the sidewalk. No warning of any kind whatsoever so I doubt there would have been grounds to stop this poor woman getting on the flight.

[thelummox]

Yes Hellsbrink, most certainly true, however I'm guessing the difference here is that some people accept some things can't be changed and moved on after such a loss, and then others call the ambulance chasers and try and apportion blame.

The poor woman had a massive event that caused her death - as others have illustrated, she was probably not going to make it even if she was in a hospital, so why do some out there insist on the old, "well somebody must be to blame" attitude ?

And we wonder why medical professionals are reluctant to get involved in things like this - As I see it, minding your own business means you don't get involved in the old Duty of Care chestnut, but once you get involved, it opens the floodgates to malicious litigation by lawyers who name everyone, most likely down to the company that made the plastic tray dinner was served on, in the hope some of them pay "go away" money.

[Blues&twos]

Agreed. The only thing AA might have had to look at (as an indirect result of this incident but not in any way relating to the death of the pax) would have been if their O2 cylinders were empty/non-functional.

There doesn't seem to be any concrete evidence of that, however, and it seems unlikely that two cylinders were u/s.

[airbourne]

"That is the answer from the post mortem. Whether or not oxygen would have helped will only be known following the inquest. For those that are not familiar with diabetes, heart failure is one of the prime causes of death. Diabetes is an illness that builds long and slow but, when it has reached a critical point, the consequences arrive VERY quickly. Heart failure and stoke being the two usual events"


Hang on a second there, as a diabetic, I can speak from experience! The pax in question must have ignored the fact that they were getting weak. From first hand knowledge i can tell you its very difficult to ignore when you have a low blood sugar! So either the pax ignored their low blood sugar or just didnt take care of it hence death. Please stop scare monguring that diabetes will kill you with no warning! Thats rubbish!

[hellsbrink]

Airbourne, I'd love it if you could tell tell my aunt that.

[cats_five]

Airbourne, I got the impression the woman died from a cardiac event - not from low blood sugar at that point in time. None of us ever get much warning of cardiac events...

[airbourne]

The point hellsbrink was making was that diabetes can kill you quick. Heart attack may have been cause of death but not diabetes. Ask any doctor and if you control your diabetes with health and food choices, you can ended up dieing of old age. Im sorry about the loss of your aunt, but until you live with diabetes first hand, you actually havnt a clue what your talking about!

[PAXboy]

It appears that she died of a cardiac problem brought about as a result of her diabetes. You will know airbourne, the long term effects of diabetes on the capillary blood vessels, even though it may be controlled with diet, this is insidious and unstoppable. Hellsbrink mentions an aunt who died of a cardiac arrest, another common occurrence is the 'stroke'. This is because they both stem from blocked blood vessels.

However, as I mentioned in an earlier post, because the pax (understandably) stated that she had the disease, it confused the cabin crew at first. It would seem that there was a doctor in attendance and they would have understood this most common of diabetic related problems. The pax may, or may not, have experienced a 'hypo' at the same time. Whether she did or not, would have made no difference to the outcome.

[hellsbrink]

Airbourne, cause of death was cardiac brought on by diabetes.