BPIAA Rumor or Truth [Archive]

Mario Brothers

11th Apr 2008, 02:59

"Holy Regulations, Batman!!!" Boy, we've got a real professor in our midst!!

Since you're too damn lazy or incompetent to research the CCAR's, let me spell it out for you, Humpty Dumpty!!

It doesn't matter if Hu Jin Tao administered a check ride; the man does not meet the qualifications to hold an ACFI approval in Handan, because multiengine training is conducted at that base under an approved course of training, and HE DOES NOT HOLD AN MEI...!!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT, :mad:?????

CCAR 141.47 (b)

(b) The airport, facilities and personnel utilised at the support base must meet the appropriate requirements of section B of this part and its approved training course outline;

CCAR 141.111

(1) Hold a commercial pilot or an airline transport pilot certificate, except for the assistant chief instructor that train solely for lighter-than-air rating, only require a current flight instructor certificate. The certificates must contain the appropriate aircraft category, class, and instrument ratings if an instrument rating is required if appropriate
You're worse than Brian "The Brain" Butts!!!! :ugh:
Don't take my word for it, look at it yourself. Here's the link, dweeb!!!

pilots.caac.gov.cn/file/guizhang/CCAR 141 final.doc (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkj8qy_5HDVIBk75XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzbDR1czBnBHNlYwNzc gRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA0RGRDVfMTE3/SIG=12m21u9iv/EXP=1207966890/**http%3a/pilots.caac.gov.cn/file/guizhang/CCAR%2520141%2520final.doc)

MosesFrenchieRose

12th Apr 2008, 03:58

I do not think espiritdecorp withdraw the posts, Pprune removed them to together with flyinghazzard and whoever because all they do is just swearing at each other. Actually I do not understand why you people are doing this? Spend your time doing something more worthwhiles like flying or trying to fly. Chill it man! TK, you should not use abusive words like that, are you drunk? again?

ssassik

16th Apr 2008, 17:26

what the :mad: is going on!!!. I am confuse, do you have a flight school or just a bunch of :ugh: by stander? inform me.

Mario Brothers

17th Apr 2008, 10:05

do you have a flight school

No.

I hope this answers your question.

abeerattherussian

21st Apr 2008, 07:46

Peace!!!!

Enjoy your time at panam!!!! ;)

The new president will solve everything don' t worry :ok:.

.................where is the russian in baotou?????...............

Mario Brothers

25th Apr 2008, 08:08

This email was sent out today, April 25th (PAYDAY) to all foreign instructors from Brian "The Brain" Butts, our new president. All of you potential instructors that plan on coming here should read this carefully, along with previous posts about PanAm. You may want to reconsider and go to work at McDonalds!!

I highlighted a particularly interesting comment Mr. Butthead made in this degrading and insulting email. Those of you that work here can discect it and see that the blame for not getting paid is being put on us, the instructors, and not the management and outside interferences. This is a slap in the face to all of us.

We are appauled that you sent this notice out on payday knowing full well that you and the other management personnel in this disgusting company knew well in advance that we were not going to be paid today. You are a disgusting, rude, and inconsiderate :mad:.

Here is the email. Enjoy!!

Subject: Notice from Mr. Brian Butt

Dear Expatriate Professional Colleagues,

25th of each month is our pay day - a day which is very important to all of us, as an employee.

However, the School has difficulty meeting this deadline this month. As the head of the School. I feel sorry to be the carrier of this bad news. However, I have very positive and solid evidence that our salary money has been deposited into our account in Hong Kong, but due to the complexity of the foreign exchange law in China, it will take a few days for the money to be credited to our School's account in China. I am confident that it will be Monday 28th, and latest Tuesday 29th April when we can pay you.

I share your views that this is not ideal but you must understand that, as instructors, or the salepersons of the School, our productivity has been low lately. This has a lot of impact on our revenue. The management has been doing a great job of attracting new funds and investment. But unless, we work harder and be more efficient in our operations, our income will be forever affected. I take the opportunity to ask you, if the sky is is open to us - we must fly - not one bird but all the birds must be in the Sky.

I cannot agree with you more that you are entitled to be paid puntually but I am asking you for your understanding - the school needs your patient and cooperation to go thru this difficult time, together, and hand-in hand. PanAm is one big family.

If any one of you have difficulty in meeting certain financial deadlines due to the delay of this payment, please come to see me or write me an email, I will do my best to help.

Best Regards
Brian

Newark Newbie

25th Apr 2008, 10:56

The new president will solve everything don' t worry

Does this include you guys not getting paid today? He definitely possess problem solving skills!

Blue Skies :ok:

Newark Newbie

25th Apr 2008, 16:35

A friend forwared me a copy of the notice that Mr. Butts sent to everyone. That is the most degrading and humiliating letter I have ever seen in my life. He is actually blaming you, the instructors at Panam, for not getting paid accordingly.

There is something deeper going on guys, and you should look into this. I see bancruptcy on the horizon, and you need to demand a meeting with this jerk, nail this guy down, and get some answers.

What even disturbs me more is that the notice was sent out on payday and not before. That really gives you time to prepare for your financial obligations.

Something stinks here, and it's starting to smell really bad.

Good luck to all of you.

Blue Skies :ok:

espiritdecorp

25th Apr 2008, 20:27

Brian, you have no idea what you have just gotten yourself into. You better pray that the salary and housing allowance is here on monday, otherwise you won't know what hits :} you. You would have failed miserably the first month that you took control of this academy. Instead of finding faults with your CFIs that has been working their BUTTS off whenever there is clearance, you should find the way to really start working instead of singing :ok:praises :D applauding your bunch of incompetent management team and blaming the instructors. You just took over the Titanic my friend, make sure you have your life vest! :\:\:\

By the way, is TR the Chief? Guess he just realised he never once was! sob sob sob!!! :ugh::O:oh: Why don't you go kiss some BUTT? You are really good at that.

Mario Brothers

26th Apr 2008, 01:53

Hey, Brian. It was real convenient for you to leave Bautou before payday so you wouldn't have to deal with the mess you've caused. Is that how you ran your operation in Hong Kong? What sewer did AIG pull you out of? Do you think we're one of your "underlings", as you call them in China, that you can just piss on?

We put up with enough BS from your stupid, untrained dispatchers and incompetent management personnel. I dare you praise your corrupt and irresponsible management team. You go ahead and continue hanging out with the likes of John Zhang, Hamish, and Teddy...they will make your career here prosper.....hint, hint (additional RMB)

I laugh when I read your email recruiting for the DCFI positions...haha. You say the selectee will, most importantly, "learn how to manage." Well if that management includes hiding the facts from your "underlings", then TR and a few others would fit in nicely.

MP, I received your email. Are you trying to be the saviour of PanAm? Breach of contract...hahahaha....what are you going to do; sue them?...hahaha!!! Let me know when the court date is.

nijiggajigga

26th Apr 2008, 13:02

Boy oh boy I rather do enjoy seeing how the same faces still don't get the picture and move on.

I quit BPIAA August 2007... now that I'm back in the states, I just got a job flying Kingairs, Learjets, and Hawkers... time to move on guys. There are tons of jobs (not to mention better paying) all around the world and unless you all are so blind or ignorant not to see that BPIAA has failed as a school and always will be a failed school and you all have false hopes. There is a reason why the instructors who tried to change BPIAA are no longer there.. you can't change a company that has so many external and internal problems... even if BPIAA got it's act together and somehow managed to be a decent flight school.. you still have the weather, ATC, and military issues to deal with... China is not ready to have general aviation or flight training.. and don't be so arrogant to think that an outsider could convince them how to do it... if you haven't realized yet.. Chinese are racists and they will do whatever it takes to save face.. which is why all those great ideas that were brought up years ago to improve the company never happened.. becuase it was a foreigner, not a Chinese person, who came up with those ideas....

Haven't you all figured this out yet? Get a clue... MOVE ON.

Newark Newbie

26th Apr 2008, 14:34

Good advice there, Nigajigga. C'mon guys, smell the roses and get the hell out of that place. Haven't all of you put up with enough of their crap, corruption, and lies? Most of you have enough hours and experience to get a job anywhere.

Espirtdecorp is correct; you're on the Titanic and help is miles away. I only disagree with him in one respect; there are no lifejackets or lifeboats onboard. You're on your own to swim out of that place.

For you non-US or Canadian guys, don't think you have to wait on a A320 position to get the hell out of there. Take a small 135 job somewhere that you can work. That's good experience. A lot of the guys that worked there are doing that until they can get where they want. You have to crawl before you walk. At least they are building time, GETTING PAID, and not having to deal with the crap on a daily basis.

I'll tell you, if I was still there and received an email like that guy sent you, I'd be on the first flight out of that place. What an insult!! Than man has no honor.

Anything is better than being stuck in that place.

Blue Skies :ok:

Always Moving

27th Apr 2008, 00:29

I have not read "THE THREAD" in a while! WOW I did not know the state of things in the Mongolia........ We have smell bankruptcy for years.... but mysteriously does not happen (another Chinese mystery!) "Hairy HMMMMMaybe Guy" still there and the savage too! (if you ask, you have not seen him eating if not, ask the diamond mechanic...)

After reading the email I was like this guy is a westerner? it sounds like he has been in China TOOOOO LOOOOONG!

I agree, it does blame you guys! and WTF if the productivity does not go up..... he is gonna fire Ya'll? he is gonna pay you less? that dude is a "Jack Ass" he should go into politics.

MORE BEEF!

Genghis Khan

27th Apr 2008, 06:13

Come on, dudes!! What are you waiting for? What else do you need to see before you pack your bags?

I hope they have enough money in the slush fund to buy your ticket home!:eek:

flytoo

28th Apr 2008, 02:31

If this is true?
well, I wish you good luck:ok:

Don t forget the last night at the 89.

Happy flying:cool:

BlueSkyLife

30th Apr 2008, 02:49

You know guys that was real Childish of Mr butt to call us up as if it was some kind of "Poor Relief" meeting and to threaten us that if we dont work harder then our salaries will be affected:E. The Dude does not know whats going on in China yet. He is a complete Retard:ugh:. Calling us up for salaries and saying what we flew for the month is not our problems so if he thought that shook us think again cause its not our fault, real mature.:ok:. I swore that in the meeting he said he got the money in time from the Casino to bring it in time to Pay us:hmm:, he had the look as if it slipped from his mouth. I think this guy is a Dingleberry and needs to get his screw and bolts together.

Mario Brothers

1st May 2008, 07:40

Blue Sky,

Hey, man, it's the Chinese way! Bring you up in front of the crowd and humiliate you in front of everyone.

I will have to admit that it was most deserving of a few, especially MP!!:ok:

What was it again; 1.7 hours for the month and a salary of $3200.00? You should send out another one of your threatening emails. (I'm still waiting on that court date for that lawsuit...hahahaha!!)

Let's see, you flew 1.7 hours for the month, and now you're going to ask for $6000.00 per month because you are typed in the CJ..hahahahahahahaha!! What a joke!

flytoo

15th May 2008, 05:11

Hello guys,

Prop strikes, tyres blown up, landing gear f:\ked up.
Panam is getting better with the quality of training

Happy flying:ok:

Mario Brothers

16th May 2008, 09:08

Hey, Higher/Faster. You're one to be talking about insulting co-workers on this website! Go take a look at some of your previous postings on here! Otherwise, I agree 100% with the rest of your comments..:ok:

I mean, let's look at this realistically; the DA-42 isn't the Space Shuttle, Love Panam!!!

Now, on to more important panam news:

MP get's a salary cut for pissing off the base manager and is restricted from flying the CJ..!!!! (send out more of those threatening emails, Don Juan):D

TR - how many more uppper echelon management personnel are you going to try and convince to release you from your contract? "But, Mr. Tu, I've done so much for Panam." "Please, please, release me without having to fulfill my contract." "I don't have the money to pay the penalty." "It's all been used up on booze and broads."

What a bunch of losers!!!!

MosesFrenchieRose

17th May 2008, 13:28

You seems to be having so much fun at others misfortune hu? What happened? I thought you threatened to leave? No better place to be? You are like the pot calling the kettle black!? Do you seriously at any point in your career think that you are one notch above the rest? Your students sucks big time! We are wondering when is your turn? We thought you are different, well well well, you are just like your countryman TR!

flytoo

17th May 2008, 22:02

Hello.

It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the area, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spend himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst if he fails, at least fails by daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knows neither defeat nor victory.

it is from TR.

Keep whining:D

Mario Brothers

18th May 2008, 04:36

Hey, Flytoo (YI); You're a poet and didn't know it..hahaha!! You may want to try some of your own philosophy there, Boudreaux! :} You can bathe a hog in fragrant soap, but it will always return to the mudhole!!

Here's you another famous quote to add to your collection:

"I'd rather have a german division in front of me than a french division behind me." :ok:

General George Patton

MosesFrenchieRose

18th May 2008, 05:12

Flytoo = YI

Maybe you should stop quoting things from books (I mean, have some originality!), and if you do, make sure you acknowledged the authors, otherwise it is known as Plagiarism the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work. (Definition from dictionary.com)

Both of you drunk when you write these sh:mad:it? Either both of you have no shame or you are just very very disillusioned!

Whining? TR is the one whining because his company refused to released him, what? are you kidding me?

spacemanspiff8

18th May 2008, 17:54

heres another good one;

why are the streets of paris lined with trees?

because germans like to march in the shade!

Newark Newbie

21st May 2008, 14:26

There is a big rumor spreading across cyberspace that JS got fired!! Can someone verify this? The chinese are completely out of control if they did that!! What a bunch of low lifes!!!

Blue Skies :ok:

BlueSkyLife

23rd May 2008, 17:08

Well, hearing from credible sources i can say its true about JS leaving. Its funny how a company pays for his type rating then say ok leave.:ugh:

In other news: we had our number one contender, third time crowned holder, undefeated CFI, leading champion in the ''jump ship/runners'' monthly 25th contest; again making headline news with yet another gold medal (Type rating) on his chest in the runners' game this month, none other than TR.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D, let me hear it people!!!!

We are now down to 3 CJ1 pilots or 2 as MP is the holder of a 'frozen type rating' only one CJ pilot is active at this time......who will be the runner up for May and June in the ''RUNNERS' " monthly games........The olympics are coming who will be crowned and which country will be crowned #1 runners'.:} The games will be held at the Baotou, Shiz, Handan and Wuhai airports. Purchase tickets to this even at www.panamaviation.com (http://www.panamaviation.com).

Stay tuned for more as PanAm makes a steep spiral maneuver towards bankruptcy.

Mario Brothers

24th May 2008, 04:48

BlueSkyLife,

Your on the money there, my friend. We have enough runners to challenge all contenders in the the Olympics!!

Alas, the new Assistant Chief of the CJ's is none other than Mr. A. Chen himself!! Yes, my friends, bribery, falsification, corruption surpasses all here at panam. Yes, you are reading this correctly; Here is our new Assistant Chief's credentials:

1. Near mid-air with a 737 in the CJ when he completely lost control and situational awareness.

2. Falsified over 100 entries in MCC pilots logbooks, indicating flight instruction given in the King Air of which he was not rated.

3. Falsified cross country entries in abinitio students logbooks. (CAAC caught you on that one, Ho Chi Min.)

4. Falsified his own medical certificate.

Yes!!!!! This is the new Panam under the direction of Mr. Butthead!! Yes, we have someone with over 6000 hours running this place now!!! Can everyone see the improvements?

The hard and dedicated workers like JS get the axe, and the blundering blowhole get's the promotion.

WELCOME TO PANAM!!!

Newark Newbie

24th May 2008, 06:46

You're joking, right? AC is running the high performance department? That place is total insanity!! What happend to JR, SI, and RF? Have they left?

Stay tuned for the next episode.

Blue Skies :ok:

spacemanspiff8

24th May 2008, 15:27

The hard and dedicated workers like JS get the axe, and the blundering blowhole get's the promotion.

no, its more like the competent white guy gets the axe, and the incompetent chinese guy gets the promotion!

i dont know why everyone is acting so surprised, thats just business as usual for panam, nothings changed since i was there 2 years ago!

flytoo

29th May 2008, 06:24

TR means Type Rating

:ok:

Always Moving

29th May 2008, 06:33

All of this... after a simple question!:eek:

Jbroey3

30th May 2008, 04:21

uhmm.. :rolleyes:

What the hell is this thread even about anymore? Seriously, this seems just stupid.

What's actually happening over in Handan, ****izwrong, Baotou, or Wuhai?

-Joe

Always Moving

30th May 2008, 08:25

Another unconfirmed rumor or truth!

Breaking "rumors" is it true the FI can not work because the BPIAA have not paid the construction company and they do not allow anyone in their building?

Classic Move!

BlueSkyLife

1st Jun 2008, 07:31

The 'End is near' or should i say the end is here.
Here is a list of Clues that a half of brain person can figure out.
Unpaid Construction company:ok:
Unpaid Angry Local Staff:}
Unpaid Hotel in Wuhai:eek:
Unpaid ATC:hmm:
Unpaid for Airplanes:bored:
Unpaid Foreigners (re-embursements):mad:
No money for Fuel:D
Proposed salary reduciton with longer terms:=
Ceasure of Instructor Upgrades:(
No more laundry services:hmm:
Not even PanAm parties anymore:O

Dont we all see it yet or are we pretending its not happening and hoping for the best. There is no best left to come out of PanScam. :ouch:

BlueSkyLife

6th Jun 2008, 04:58

You know i can imagine this place to be like a Safari:cool:. Lets imagine there is a Huge Termite Mound and a Baboon gets a stick and sticks it into the Mound and out comes a bunch of termites for dinner.
Now lets replace the Baboon with an Airline, the Mound with PanAm and the Termites with the students. Rumour has it that the Airline withdrew some students.....and there will be more Baboons coming to feed very soon.
Now the FI are the termites with wings and we are smart not to hang on to the stick................or is it that we cant get the chance because they dont want someone with wings from a diffrent mound. Anyways thats a new Mound to disscuss.
I sound crazy dont I? Thats the craziness from all the B:mad:sh:mad:t kicking in, I better go take my pills:}.

You know I would love to be on the outside of this Mound when it callapses, but i wish to stay, cash out all i can and travel before the Mound dries up.

Always Moving

6th Jun 2008, 07:19

Not a bad analogy!

Seems like there will be some more statues
http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/AVwebInsiderBlog_Thielert_FlawedEconomics_197998-1.html
for sale soon!

And some Fi in the market... but you guys know where to go....!

Mario Brothers

7th Jun 2008, 11:26

Let's all analyze this, shall we?

Brian Butt

6 June 2008

Dear Colleagues and Students,

In the last few days, I have received many feedbacks from you and most of you are worried about the future of PanAm. Let me be very plain and tell you that PanAm is not closing down and indeed it will never close down.

I have been away from Baotou in the last few days dealing with a few issues which are very important to PanAm. I will explain to you one by one.

FUEL SUPPLY: I am not happy with the fuel supply. Indeed, I am angry about the poor management of our fuel supply. Our fuel supply are from two sources, from the military and from the civilian fuel supplier. I went to LanZhou and discussed direct with the fuel supplier. I am pleased to report to you that we have been promised that they will give PanAm priority in giving us fuel. We have paid them RB1.3 million three months ago and still there was no delivery. I am expecting them to deliver fuel to us next week,

With fuel, we need containers. We have sourced fuel containers: a 50-tons container in Wuhai, a 50-tons container in Handan, and 50-tons container in Baotou. The one in Baotou will be increased to 160 tons after construction.

I have appointed VP Tu as the officer-in-charge of fuel supply with immediate effect. His instruction from me is very clear. To make sure there is a continuous supply of Avgas.

AIRSPCE: We were doing very well until an incident happened a few days ago in Shijaizhuang. One of our cross-country flights was told to return to Handan due to poor weather condition in SJZ. Our pilots told lie and said they have not had enough fuel and needed immediate landing. For this stupid and unprofessional act, we are now being punished - not only the crews are punished, all of us are being punished. We are doing whatever we can to redress the situation.

Money: The slow progress of our students means we are unable to graduate students. Without graduation, mean without income. With no income means a tight cash flow. This is why I asked all instructors must follow the TCO faithfully. Any overfly of the stipulated hours are not acceptable.

We have almost RMB15 to 20 million account receivable which are owed to us by the airlines. We must take steps to recover this money soonest. In addition to this, AIG which is our majority shareholder is sourcing new money to inject to PanAm. With the new money, we will be in a better shape. I expect the money to come in by August 2008.

Flight Safety: I am disappointed by the poor flight safety record, especially those in Handan. Flight Safety is discipline and I feel there is very little discipline in Handan and hence frequent incidents. I have ordered their operations to be closed down for five days to review their flight safety. CAAC has been informed of this action.

I understand your frustration. I am also frustrated by the issues appearing one after the other. However, I know these problems are sent to test us, and to polish us to be a better pilot, instructor and manager. I am sure together, holding hand in hand, we can ride through this difficult time.

I am confident about the future of PanAm, and so should you.

Yours sincerely,
Brian Butt

Always Moving

7th Jun 2008, 12:01

There is going to be interesting responses here :ok:

Yea Let's

Who is this guy, he writes like a Chinese?
Volume is not measure in weight!
You forked 1.3B CNY and after 3 months still ok?:eek:
If the FI landed I guess the weather was not that bad, besides if the ATC start doing their job and let the pilot do his job, that would not happened in the first place (Mr. Ass is really in your side "boys")
Everyone knows that is is impossible by deffinition to follow a TCO you always fly more ALWAYS (hmm like my name!)
Flight Safety... in China? loads more for the Olympics!
Problems sent....sent by who?
Is he going to give Sunday mass too?

Newark Newbie

7th Jun 2008, 12:24

This is unbelieveable!!! Thanks, Mario!!!! :ok:

VP Tu is going to be in charge of the fuel, like he was in charge of tearing the engines down after all of those prop strikes? The same VP Tu who's mechanics couldn't change a tire on a DA-40, or open the door on the CJ?

No more hours than allowed in the TCO? Who do you think you're teaching, Mr. Butt?; Bob Hoover and Chuck Yeager?

We will now wait and see if the stupid instructor that lied will get a promotion or get fired!!! Was it Alan? If so, he may be the next VP!!!!

Yannik, congratulations on your safety record in Handan since you assumed the position as Asst. Chief down there!!!

Blue Skies :ok:

tuwangforbutt

13th Jun 2008, 04:38

Vp Tu + H Wang = Trudy...but she left because she's tired of them fighting over her.

Vp Tu + H Wang + Mr. Ass = AIG losing more money.

Mr. Song = Baotou base manager :)

Joe wake up and smell the tea leafs..fire Vp Tu, H Wang and all the HR staff ( Alice Li ) Don't worry about Mr. Ass...he will leave on his own very soon.

Mario Brothers

14th Jun 2008, 13:30

:D:D:D:D

Way to go, Sebastian. You've proven yourself to be a valuable asset to Butthead and his band of misfits. Signing off students who you didn't fly with after they failed their stage check. You're a real winner!!!

"They have to pass!!", say's Butt. If he told you to jump without a parachute, you'd be right up his ass following him.

You're a pathetic loser.

Always Moving

17th Jun 2008, 05:55

Gentelmans (& Ladies) Please this thread is confirm things not to attack anyone!

Besides, you are basically saying I am a brownnoser and I like it and if you are not one of us leave!

You forgot option 3, the more righteous, try to change things for the better (a lost cause in China, but still righteous!)

Please do not scold a person with enough spirit to say fu:mad:k the system try to change it, you should be praises and say thank god somebody does it because You have your nose so far up, you can not take it out, or do not want to for what ever reasons (I am not telling you are wrong for doing it, I am sure you have your reasons, I am just clarifying what is called, so you ARE aware)

Mario Brothers

17th Jun 2008, 08:34

Higher/Faster,

Number 1, you don't tell me what to say on this thread.

Number 2, I post facts, Mr. Limpbisquit, and you go ahead and try to disprove just one of them.

Number 3, the disgrace is YOU!!! You're the one promoting and supporting the bribery and corruption at this place. You know "S" (SuperCFI) signed that student off without flying with him after the check instructor failed him on the Stage Check.

Number 4, you don't know who I am or where I'm based, so be careful what you say to other instructors there that are my friends. I may be sitting next to you at the lunch table, for that matter.

MB

Alpha_Dog

3rd Jul 2008, 16:06

HF, MB, etc etc etc - it's amazing how fellow aviators could be on such a low level of maturity! Instead of conducting a containing and helpful discussion about possible ways out of current situation, you guys just cat-fighting like some dumb school girls !!!

Who cares who the fu:mad: the new ACFI is :confused: Who cares about that muppet Mr Butt :confused: This company is ceasing to exist by fall this year or earlier!!! It went into administration 2 months ago ! Fu:mad: it and move on :ok:

Now, does anyone know any decent flight schools or airlines hiring around Asia? Whats the deal with those two guys that recently got jobs flying for Air China ? If they still there and have not screwed up yet -we all may have a clear way in!

Lets help each other rather then jump on each other's throats !!!

BlueSkyLife

18th Jul 2008, 08:04

F:mad:k Mr. Ass, F:mad:K ATC F:mad:K PANAM. I AM OUT OF HERE

BlueSkyLife

16th Aug 2008, 10:21

Its been a long time!!
Its so quiet in here. What did all the Gossipers leave? :}
Heard there is a meeting in the old Shizy. Strange how they want you all to meet at that base, huh?
Good Luck!!:eek:

Albatross01

18th Aug 2008, 07:20

I'd just　ｌｉｋｅ　ａ　ｈｅａｄｃｏｕｎｔ　ｏｆ instructors　ｔｈａｔ　
ｆｉｎｄ　other　ｊｏｂｓ　ａｎｄ　ｔａｋｅ them instead of coming back　ｏｎ　ｔｈｅ　20／09／2008．:sad:

Mario Brothers

26th Aug 2008, 12:30

Higher / Faster,

This email should answer your question:

Subject: Salary for October 2008
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:34:14 +0800

Dear All

This email is to convey this message from Mr Butt to all expatriate instructors that the money has been delayed due to the procedure of conversion from RMB to USD by the bank. We are told that it will be ready sometimes this week. Instructors will be informed individually once this is confirmed. Any inconvenience caused is deeply regretted.

Regards

Alice

HA HA HA HA!!!!!! PanAm does it again; BTW, I WON'T BE BACK ON THE 20TH. FORGET THE PAY; DONATE IT TO JONATHAN SO HE CAN BUY A PLANE TICKET HOME!!!

happylife

29th Aug 2008, 13:06

Do you have any intention ever to pay us whatever outstanding money that are owed to us? You have not kept your words so far :*

At least before going into liquidation, pay us before you pay yourself and your friends. You came and destroyed everyone's happylife :sad:

Albatross01

30th Aug 2008, 02:31

Well this is just great. Management is being consistently bad again. It's not a good look for any of us left in this nightmare. :zzz:
While back in my own country during this "Leave". I visited a real academy. They do the same thing as Panam, training airline cadets. Everything is professional and the students are first class people. Out of a few hundred candidates that apply each intake,
only 40 or 50 are accepted. The academy I checked out teaches the JAA syllabus.
The sad thing is there are other academy's around the world that are mickey mouse schools like Panam. It would seem that the lone rangers that are left need to scan the horizon for a new job in the not to distant future if they aren't doing so already. The awful thing is, prospective employers may want to contact our previous employer as a reference. We'll have to sort something out with our ACFI's past & present to have a meaningful recommendation. Mr Pegwu is a waste of time.

espiritdecorp

30th Aug 2008, 03:13

To those of you who are still hanging in there,
You all may probably get your salary, I say MAYBE... but I bet you, you will not get one penny for your housing allowance, air/train/taxi tickets reimbursements, or whatever BPIAA owes you... any taker? LOL! Talk is cheap Mr Brian Butt and how convenient you just go into hiding leaving your so called deputies to clean up your mess! :ok:

Mario Brothers

1st Sep 2008, 09:16

Albatross,

You are so right!! You guys need to contact the former CFI's, ACFI's and foreign managers to get a good recommendation. After all, we were all on the same sinking ship, so why not help you guys out?

I'll tell you why: BECAUSE ALL OF YOU TRIED TO BURN THEM ON THIS THREAD. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE, AND THEY DEFINITELY KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!!

HA HA HA HA!!!! Good luck getting a recommendation from one of those guys!!!!

MB

CorsairDB1

3rd Sep 2008, 02:45

There's plenty of guys on these threads I'd give a good reference to, not all but some. The whole point of this site is to sound the alarm bells about places like our beloved PanAm.

I just heard a moment ago that they are STILL grounded for the Olympics (now the ParOlympics)...

Keep the blue side up,
Derek

Mario Brothers

3rd Sep 2008, 11:00

Gee, Derek,

That is very thoughtful of you. I'll sleep better at night knowing my dream job rests in the hands of "Mr. Aviation."

While you're at it, how about writing me a "list of demands" that I can sell to my future employer.

MB

Albatross01

4th Sep 2008, 00:19

Actually that list was well overdue. As the Chinese management said at the time. They agreed with what was being asked. Items on the list were common sense and safety issues that would be addressed in a timely manor in a "Western" school. However it's painfully obvious that the management wanted to be calling the shots and not the "Foreigners".
What will be interesting is who will own Panam or it's assets in the next few months.
AIG or Air China. Would Air China still want the Foreign instructors? If so, at what price? ICAO English is about to become a big issue very soon. A lot of the students at the academy now can hardly put 2 words of English together. So there will be a number of different factors that will shape future developments in Chinese Aviation.

BlueSkyLife

4th Sep 2008, 14:05

In the near future PanAm will have no other choice but to sell all its assets. I was told the King Air was sold for an undetermined some of money because AIG didnt INJECT:( the funds (Maybe 4 Mill USD for that rubbish) and the cash was used to pay the Staff and some other debts.

Now if for September Instructors are holding their hands out for the ''Half Salary:}'' on the 25th, they maybe handed a Release letter stating that ''THERE IS NO MORE MONEY'':eek: Didnt the Thread tell you guys to get out of there!!!:ugh:

Even if they get the money, there is no way PanAm can operate normally in InnerMongolia, PanAm made too many enemies. So another Rumor is that PanScam went and opend up another school in the South and sent the Chinese Instructors there. The foreigners can :mad: off and go home!!!!:eek:

If you guys got paid, start looking for Cheap Tickets home.

Laden

4th Sep 2008, 19:49

My fellow ex-colleagues,

Pan Am did not screw up the relationship, BRIAN BUTT did! Let's see ....

:ok:He humiliated all of you by giving 'handouts' salary, the money you rightfully earned. You guys are like vagabonds collecting your meal coupons.

:ok:He severed relationship with Baotou ATC by blaming them for being lazy and not helpful. ATC refused to release your flight eversince but he now changed the whole picture and asking you to be more productive. He conveniently shifted the blame to you.

:ok:He told you guys that your housing allowance is part of your pay package, therefore you should get it with your salary every month. Walk the talk Butthead!

:ok:He is never ever in Baotou but he tells you MY DOORS ARE ALWAYS OPEN!

:ok:He knows nothing about what is happening in your academy. Things that he knows, he prefers 'not to know' because frankly, he couldn't handle it. He might as well be an Ostrich.

I have never been so happy in my life eversince the day I was free from Pan Am. I am flying in charter now, pay is compatible but at least I don't have to take these craps from some incompetent clown. I don't have to go to the airport everyday hoping to fly. :ugh:

There are many jobs out there, you just need to open your eyes and your heart and for some, your minds as well. Evacuate before you have to go down with the ship. Trust me, your ship already hit the iceberg and your Captain Butt already on the dinghy. Don't be fooled!:=:D:D

Mario Brothers

5th Sep 2008, 05:28

Laden,

Great post, and accurate. There are REAL flying jobs out here in the "free world." All it takes is a little ambition and searching to find one.

As for the King Air, it was sold to a company in Florida for less than $300,000.00 U.S. It is also been heard that the CJ's are being sold to CAAC flight college for an undisclosed amount.

Another verified rumor is one of the HP instructors asked to extend the contract for a year but was told that it could only be extended to October? Strange, isn't it? Strange that students already heard through the pipeline that all foreign instructors would be fired by the end of October? Do the math, guys!!

A lot of things for all you die-hards to look at in the next month.

MB

Newark Newbie

5th Sep 2008, 06:35

Been a while since I've posted, but I'm going to weigh in on this one.

Let's look at the situation here. BPIAA is at, or close to, bancruptcy. Everyone has seen that coming for 2 or more years. They tried everything imaginable to keep the company afloat, but they failed miserably.

Look at other major corporations. The first thing that goes is liquidating assets to pay off creditors (ie; King Air, CJ's, other big money items). Next is layoffs (non-essential personnel, high-cost personnel, foreign staff, etc.) From a business standpoint, BPIAA would be foolish to keep the high-cost, foreign staff on the payroll. This Butt guy may be a worm, but he appears to have the best interests of BPIAA at hand in making these decisions. From what I've read and been told through contacts still there, he could care less about the needs of the foreign instructors. Like many people have said on these numerous threads; leave that place while you still have some dignity left!!

All you guys have heard from the beginning is promises, promises, promises. You're not getting paid your housing allowances, payroll delays, not flying, selling off airplanes, contracts not being extended, humiliation in front of other staff....what more do you need to see?

I wish all of you the best.

Blue Skies:ok:

Laden

7th Sep 2008, 02:59

I am only speaking of the truth! I am still hearing so much craps that is going on in there it is so funny, it is funny if you are watching it from the outside though but I think it is hellish if you are stucked in there.Brian, how about doing the same to your two so called deputies and yourself with the September paychecks? TELL EVERYBODY WHAT YOU HAVE DONE SO FAR AND HOW MUCH YOU ARE TAKING THIS MONTH? It is more than RMB100 000 a piece for each of you! No wonder you instructors couldn't get no house money. YOU ARE THE MOST EXPENSIVE CEO IN THE WORLD considering at least the others managed to get even some work done. CEO in your case stands for CONNED EVERY ORGANISATION, that includes AIG. My fellow friends that are still stuck in there, you don't belong there and that is no way to be treated like that! You really don't need this! Good luck with your jobsearch.

espiritdecorp

7th Sep 2008, 14:07

THE 3 STOOGES SHOULD STEPDOWN! :}:oh::ouch:

BlueSkyLife

8th Sep 2008, 10:06

Isnt its strange how they just canceled the meeting after it was planned over 1 month ago. Now, "ITS CANCELED:ugh::eek::*:sad::D:(:mad::confused::}:ok:". So many expressions for that place. Is it Because Mr. Butt is an idiot or we don't have enough money to pay for the O'jing for all instructors for 4 nights and Re-reimburse the cost of all the instructors?........wait hahhaha, it could be BOTH....hahhaha. If I were in the Shoes of the guys returning, I would call it a ticket and stay home, because its a waste to go back to that HELL HOLE. As for you guys still in there, GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN!

happylife

8th Sep 2008, 10:10

:eek: The meeting has been cancelled!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does the company pay us for rescheduling flights again???????????????
Brian Butt, you show till the end that you've never once kept your words...:ugh:
You ruined our happy holiday :} Are you happy now??????????????

MosesFrenchieRose

8th Sep 2008, 10:40

Meeting cancelled! Training? The person really seriously in need of training is you, BUTTHEAD! :{ You need some serious training in HUMAN RELATION, DECISION MAKING, MANAGEMENT SKILLS......... BUTT..... it is never going to happen because you just think you are the best!

Don't you have one tiny bit of dignity? :E What are you still doing in Pan Am? Other than screwing everybody's life?

What are you? You think you really have something in that little pea brain of yours? Trying to rule this place like a DICK-tator? Every decision you have made since the day you arrived just turns to ****! You have just proven to all that you have NO SUBSTANCE! :ugh:

ssassik

8th Sep 2008, 10:42

BELIEVE IT,
1.Believe that that they can do what they want because you let them do it for you.
2.Believe that they will not pay any reimbursement of anything because they never will.
3.Believe that you can do your happy vacation without panam's expense.
4. Believe that panam will never be a flight school as long as there are lot of ticks instead of flight instructors.
5. Believe that butt is happy messing to your butt head because he know that you dont have the guts to tell your complain and just wasting your time whinning in this thread.

Mario Brothers

8th Sep 2008, 11:52

Forward your complaints about Butthead to this lady. SVP AIG-ASIA Investments. She's the one that hired the 6000 hour blundering blowhole.

(Jo Tang) [email protected]

MB

espiritdecorp

8th Sep 2008, 16:16

Those of you who are still hoping for that airline job? One of Pan Am former instructor had just posted a :}:}:} WARNING :}:}:} on Pprune to all of you. Unless you have 16 US grand to spare, you can dream on and kiss that job goodbye! I hope you will rot in hell BRIAN BUTT :ouch:

Jbroey3

8th Sep 2008, 18:08

Feel kinda bad saying this, but for all of you that are actually still at Pan Am,.. you should blame yourselves,.. if you all haven't seen this coming for over 2 years now,.. you deserve to live in that sh1thole & deal with idiocy.

Blame the "idiot" management that is continuously making the wrong decisions, but also blame yourselves for sticking with them and also not speaking up together as a unified team.

-Joe :yuk:

Laden

8th Sep 2008, 20:27

Please get the hell out of there and let him run the place himself. I heard he is a NATURAL pilot. Anyone knows what is the credentials of his two deputies? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Jbroey3

9th Sep 2008, 08:49

If you didn't get fired, you would still be in that ****-hole...

:ok:

Just remember why I was "released":ok:, :cool:

Just remember why other great people were "released" such as DB: corrupt managers, and a team of people unwilling / unable to stand up against corruption.

Remember, it does take quite a lot to actually stand up against corruption and know the consequences, I took that and dealt with the results. In the end though, the leader of corruption, the man I stood against, was fired / ousted while others still chose to kiss ass and suck up to the managment in the end.

So be it. :ok:

spacepodlife

9th Sep 2008, 15:39

Talk is cheap, free speech isn't.

Alpha_Dog

10th Sep 2008, 23:21

hemm, looks like PanScam really has resumed FI recruitment from a few days ago. Look at this:

Aviation Jobs :: Flight Instructors (various levels of experience) (http://www.avianation.com/aviation_jobs/jobDetail.cfm?jobID=8244813537)

________________________
Date: September 1, 2008. Last updated: September 10, 2008
[I]Company Name: Beijing PanAm International Aviation Academy
Position: Flight Instructors (various levels of experience)
Description: We are looking for flight instructors to work in China at one of our
training bases for a 18-month contract. Great opportunity for
young instructors. Also a great ADVENTURE for instructors at any
stage of their career.

Minimum Qualifications for all full-time flight instructor positions:

Possess a Commercial Pilot Certificate with Airplane Single Engine
Land, Instrument Airplane, and Multi-Engine Land Ratings. Licenses
must be issued by an ICAO country that is politically recognized by
China.
Flight Instructor Certificate with Airplane Single-engine rating.
First Class Medical certificate. Ability to pass the First Class
Chinese Medical Exam for pilots. This exam is more rigorous than
the exam in many countries, particularly those given in the USA.
Medical certificate must be issued from the same authority that
issued the CPL and FI licenses.

All licenses and ratings must be current. Beijing PanAm may ask
an instructor to renew licenses prior to arrival in China.

what the :mad: does this mean ?! :} Also interestingly, the salaries are stated in USD, not in "fries rice" or "hopes and dreams" or "airplane parts" as you'd expect from a bankrupt company (???) ...

Albatross01

11th Sep 2008, 12:19

Let it be known to those that say"get out while you can."
Some of us are staying for personal reasons. Some marking time. Some of us will still try for a Chinese Airline. Some of us.......................do have the 16 grand US for that type rating. Remember, "it's not over till the fat lady sings." The wise money is on not relying on Panam to help. Especially "Mr Pegwu." :sad:

Alpha_Dog

11th Sep 2008, 17:17

haha! I got my winter boots!...

Mario Brothers

12th Sep 2008, 11:34

Alpha Dog,

That recruitment advert is fake! Read the email from Gery! He should know, since he's HR's "boy toy!"

Albatross,

"Personal reasons?" I'd hate to imagine what those might be. Please, just stay there!

MB

Albatross01

14th Sep 2008, 00:12

My personal reasons are outside of the "Panam bubble."
Nothing corrupt going on in my back yard. Far from it. Panam can be a vehicle for staying in China in the interim. (Not the most ideal of course. But a vehicle just the same):eek:

Alpha_Dog

14th Sep 2008, 02:46

This does not makes any sense at all. Why would someone post a fake recruitment ad on Sept 1st and then update it on Sept 10th !? What is the point ?..

By the way, lets say that some idiot has registered with "avianation.com" under panam name and to some pointless reason posted this ad. But the info is coming straight from:

click here: http://www.panamaviation.com/en/Enrollment/index.asp (http://www.panamaviation.com/en/Enrollment/index.asp)

it's the same ad and same conditions. Was panam simply too lazy to remove that ad from their own website all this time or is this a new posting ? You cant say this was not authorized either. Something is going on...

BlueSkyLife

14th Sep 2008, 07:21

I remember seeing this AD just before coming to China. Now its still there but updated......if it was a new AD it would be duplicated because there would have to be an owner to it.
Its the same AD, its not duplicated, PanAm first AD was not removed, and i am convinced that this is an Updated version direct form PanAm's HR.

Fareastdriver

15th Sep 2008, 15:11

Please don't let Beijing Panam go bankrupt or out of business. It is one of the most entertaining threads on Pprune.

Alpha_Dog

16th Sep 2008, 00:35

AIG lost 60% of it's value today, Lehman went bankrupt and Merryl Lynch is sold to BofA. I dont even know why they are calling us back.. Any news on Air China transaction ?..

KAG

17th Sep 2008, 03:30

AIG lost 60% of it's value today, Lehman went bankrupt and Merryl Lynch is sold to BofA. I dont even know why they are calling us back.. Any news on Air China transaction ?..

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/Art/APTRANS.gif updated 9:30 p.m. ET Sept. 16, 2008

NEW YORK - In a bid to save financial markets and economy from further turmoil, the U.S. government agreed Tuesday to provide an $85 billion emergency loan to rescue the huge insurer AIG. The Federal Reserve said in a statement it determined that a disorderly failure of AIG could hurt the already delicate financial markets and the economy.

The Fed will never let AIG down. AIG will recover eventually, because there is simply no other choices. AIG is one of the first insurer in the world. The economy cannot do without it.

An AIG bankrupt is close to impossible.

Albatross01

18th Sep 2008, 13:21

This is a very profound analogy of the situation. However, I feel you should consider interpreting "disorderly failure." In other words the US government doesn't want AIG to "crash." As expected there will be strings attached to a lone of this magnitude. Items in AIG's portfolio that are poor performers and not likely to improve in the very near future may be up for "consideration." In Panam's case this could mean AIG having to cut it's losses and sell the Panam assets to recoup whatever it can, or, endeavoring to sell the business as a going concern.

KAG

22nd Sep 2008, 19:28

Albatross01,

I only meant on my previous post that AIG will survive. That' s a fact. The NYSE concerning AIG rose at 5 $ today, against 2 $ few days ago. Thats still very low if you compare with the AIG NYSE begining of 2008, but still thats a 150% increase in few days.

Now it wasn' t meant to be an analogy (profound or not) with any company.

It was just a remark on AIG, I ve just emphasized that the FED and the bush administration won' t let AIG down. They won' t do the same mistake they did in 1929, but at that time the federal governement were only in charge of 10% of the US GDP, and now they deal with 40%, it makes a huge difference, and gives the governement and the FED the ability to react.

The funny thing is that the bush administration is an adam smith theory follower, which says not to interfere with the economy... Now Bush seems to apply the Keynes theories, wich is more a social and european model.

Cheers, King Air Guy.

emb145gearslinger

23rd Sep 2008, 01:58

Is that place still open? I heard they were closed for the olympics. I heard they were eventually going to replace all the foreign instructors with Chinese ones. Do they even hire foreigners there anymore. I miss that place sometimes. god they are F'd up.

espiritdecorp

25th Sep 2008, 15:23

Congratulations fellow ex colleagues, you are now shareholders of BPIAA? No pay today but you are now shareholders? Where are your stock certificates?

happylife

27th Sep 2008, 11:50

We don't have stock certificates.

We got nothing but insultation from the company.

They haven't paid our September salary.

They said we should get our salary on 29th September. But they call us for a meeting on 28th without any transportation arrangement.. :ugh: Why don't they just hold a meeting on 29th??? :\

Jbroey3

28th Sep 2008, 08:50

Which foreign instructors are actually still at Pan Am?

Mario Brothers

29th Sep 2008, 11:16

Freddie Kruger,

You are so right!! Read it and weep!! Still waiting on that $700 Billion U.S. bailout for AIG's bad investment.:D

Dear All

This is to inform you that because of the Chinese National Holiday, the money can't be transferred on time on the 29th.
The Company will pay everyone on Oct 6th, after the National holiday, when the money has been transferred.

Regards

HR Department
Beijing PanAm International Academy

MosesFrenchieRose

29th Sep 2008, 12:44

When is the three conmen going to leave? Did they make you people go to watch more powerpoints presentation at your own expense? :ugh: What was their reply when you people asked about the transportation and salary? They almost choked on their words yah? Sorry people, the money from the sales of the King Air is necessary and is long finished, go figure them out. :ok: 100K for the EDUCATOR, :ok: 100K for the new VP, yes! you heard me correctly, new VP again and the other 120K :ok:for Braindead, no wonder there is nothing left to go around to pay your salary this month. :} You can kiss your housing allowance goodbye because they need another extra 100K for entertainment, remember? :D Good management, the three of you are doing an excellent job, for yourself of course!

espiritdecorp

29th Sep 2008, 19:31

What is the odds of you getting paid on the 6th? ;) I hope I am wrong! 100 000 to 1! Any taker?

Heard there are going to be some runners this month? Welldone! :ok:

happylife

30th Sep 2008, 17:45

By the way, are we insured now :confused:

No news from HR until today. Are we still with ACE or... nothing now? :{

We shouldn't go out during holidays just to be safe.. :ouch:

Beech Bum

30th Sep 2008, 18:18

been following this blog for a while.was thinking of coming to work in chine. are you serious?no insurance? can somebody give me some advise? how is this company?i heard things are pretty rough and chaotic in china and it is hard getting flight hours, is this true?any help will be appreciated.i m already shortlisted for panam.

Fareastdriver

30th Sep 2008, 19:58

Sorry Guys. As an old China hand, you are just about to be shaken out.

Beech Bum

30th Sep 2008, 20:32

fareastdriver, are you an employee there?what do you mean shakenout?i got an offer from them and still considering.please,whatever information is appreciated

BlueSkyLife

1st Oct 2008, 02:13

Beach_Bum, let me give you some insight in addition to what others will tell you. Not unless you a pissed poor and need a job seriously just so you can eat at night you should think about going to China BPIAA to work.

Here is a list of things to deal with when you are working for BPIAA. This is only a handful of the BS you have to endure.

BPIAA work Criteria:
1. Wait at least 2 months for a license and training
2. Do a rigorous medical. Have you ass inspected, your skin, your everything look at.
3. Be placed in a Hotel rats wouldn't even visit.
4. Find your way to the Airport to sit and play games everyday, or dont get paid.
5. Struggle with the Gardener to make your uniforms to fit.
6. Have you salary delayed monthly.
7. Being haunted by the fact that the company could bankrupt anytime now.
8. Have the managers talk to you like **** and tell you how incompetent you are, and ask things like "are you a natural Pilot".
9. Have the urge to tell the higher personals how to make things more efficient and have shot back in your face at high speed, maybe even fired.
10. Sickened by the way the school is operated.
11. Deal with Politics amongst everyone in your chosen group if you want to last more than 6 months.
12. Trying to teach students that can hardly tell you there names in English.
13. Fly 40 hours with every student before he/her can solo.
14. Put up with duck tape repairs from Maintenance.
15. One Aircraft has 2 inches of one blade eaten out from constant filing away by maintenance.
16. Several DA42 engine failures due to poor maintenance.
17. Incompetent Chinese staff
18. Chinese Instructors that learn from the military, never done ILSs, Commercial Maneuvers, PPL ground reference maneuvers and are working for BPIAA.
19. Deal with the retard ATC, they dont know how to separate the Airlines from the GA, so the airspace 60NM must be clear 30 minutes before and after. There are about 20 flights per day.
20. You will be luck and happy if you can fly 100-200 hours a year, yes I said YEAR.
21. The company makes constant changes you will never hear about.
22. You are a foreigner and you are not in a position to tell Chinese how to do their jobs, there job is to scam the companies, have liquor parties and resign a rich person.
23. ETC ETC ETC and the list goes on.
24. you will loose you patients in less than 4 months, I guarantee that, i got money on it.
25. Some people stay because they got nowhere else to go, or they are afraid of changes, or plain stupid, or can accept being walked on from management.

CHINA is addition to BPIAA problems, this is a long list so only a few will be mentioned.
1. Your first 2-3 months will be hard as you have to adjust to food that in Mongolian/Chinese.
2. I hope you are good at pointing and sign language as you have to get around and get food this way until you learn the basics.
3. Every Chinese thinks you speak and read Chinese.
4. The scream hello at you across the street all day long.
5. Almost being run over by cars or cyclist in ever direction.
6. Nasty, dirty, streets, room, cars, restaurants, etc
7. Only KFC and McDonalds exists in the norther China.
8. You will gain weight like crazy.
9. Scream for your life when you take a taxi.
10. The chinese try to con you out of cash where ever and whenever.
11. Being stared at constantly by everyone walking around you when you go for a walk.
12. Pollution from the Air and the water, whatever you do dont drink the water.

Some Advantages:
1 You are close to many historical sight, you will have a tone of vacations so you use them and go travel.
2. If you get paid, it will feel like you got paid to do nothing, but trust me this will haunt you after a couple times.
3. Chance to have an interview with Chinese Airlines after you fight with BPIAA and the CAAC.
4. Fly in China and gain a little experience.
5. Pilots as seen as rich people, so the Girls will want you and you cash.
6. Ummmm, there is noting more to enjoy here.

So weigh your preferences with what i listed above and the advantages.
If you want to be here for the fun of seeing China and traveling then come over because you will hardly get to see the inside of and airplane, and have to argue with HR/support alot for things you need to do.

Everyone here will tell you not to come here, they are all looking to leave and you may be the only foreigner there. Besides the company will reduce its operations drastically or Bankrupt, why would you want to get involved.

Freddy Kruger

1st Oct 2008, 04:57

BlueSkyLife couldn't have been more accurate.Why do you want to risk going there and risk not having your airtickets even reimburse?Panam under the leadership of the ever competent Brian Butt is good at screwing people's lives because he is the natural pilot.Are you?Do reconsider properly,unless you are desperate,PanAm is not the place for the fainthearted and if you do go,make sure you have your insurance.

Mario Brothers

1st Oct 2008, 10:41

Beach Bum,

Take the advice of those above, and stay as far away from Brian Butt's little band of misfits as you can!!! BlueSkyLife could not have painted a better picture of this place. Flying a FEW hours compared to the BS you have to put up with, is not worth the trouble.

You're going to be in a big political mess not only with the ever popular Chinese management, but also with SOME throat-cutters that are SUPPOSE to be your colleagues. Take it from experience. The AK'ers around here are too many to mention.

MB

spacepodlife

2nd Oct 2008, 06:25

5. Almost being run over by cars...

You can remove "almost"
and then of course no matter if you were crossing with the green light and two witnesses, you'll be detained by police until you pay the cost of the bumper and windshield repair.
Yeah, ask me how I know this...

Beech Bum

2nd Oct 2008, 13:19

thanks to all you people who had replied to my queries.are you absolutely sure there is no insurance?i don't feel safe to be in a foreign country without that.the h.r. lady also told me to get the ticket and will be reimburse upon arrival.seems like this is not the case?sounds like a very poorly managed flight school.i was looking forward to discovering china but i will seriously reconsider now.

BlueSkyLife

2nd Oct 2008, 16:16

Ask about the last few foreigners that arrived more than 8 months ago if they got their tickets reimbursed? People are starting to run and quit and refuse to sign second contracts.

No one knows whats going on with the insurance because its A SECRET! They say if you need emergency help and you are unconscious you should call the HR who doesnt even answer the phone during work hours and they will let you know if you got insured and what hospital to let repair your bodily remains......and then you can call the ambulance who speaks no english to come to your location. Its funny how things work in China, especially BPIAA.

The HR are as dumb as a box of rocks.......I hope they didnt give you the oldest trick in BPIAA's book... "After 2 contracts you will be guaranteed a job interview with a Chinese Airline of your choice". It worked on a lot of us, luckily some managed to escape the grips or BPIAAs tricks and made it to the airlines or didnt even stay more than 1 month in China.

If i were you i would seek a hypnotist to erase the motivation to join BPIAA. In the end you will be saving yourself from endless B@#$SH%T

tuwangforbutt

3rd Oct 2008, 17:00

Stay away!!!!!

espiritdecorp

6th Oct 2008, 12:26

Dear professional colleagues,

Did you guys get paid today?My heart is aching for those of you with family.Better leave and cut the losses!

Well done Brian :ok:,if you are a professional,you would have leave.

happylife

6th Oct 2008, 16:24

We have lost trust in the company :}

They have postponed our payment three times for last month's pay.

I wonder if Butt and other 2 did receive their payment on time while we are suffering from no money :yuk:

This is totally unacceptable :ugh:

MosesFrenchieRose

7th Oct 2008, 03:35

This is so funny,why am I still in Butt's mailing list?I am having so much fun reading the bullcrap that he is putting forward to you guys.I will be surprised if anyone actually believe him anymore.But since we are on this, let me give you guys who are still there, two very highly likely scams that are going through that little Brain Butt's little brain!:ok:

1:Butt is delaying your payment deliberately so that he can squeeze the life out of some of you. He will delay and fck you until you can no longer take it and leave on your own accord.

Advantages? He doesn't have to pay you. He doesn't have to buy your air ticket home. He doesn't have to reimburse you nothing.

Disadvantages? None for him, too many for you!

2: Butt is doing exactly what you guys have allowed him to do to your housing allowances. Before you know it, he will be holding your one month salary, sort of like a collateral and then it will be 2 months, 3 months, just like your housing allowances, and before you know it, you have too much to lose if you leave.

Advantages? Happylife, Butt and his buddies are still collecting their usual big pay packages, you think he gives a **** about you?

Disadvantages? None for him. You guys will just be his cheap/free labour and you will have so much to lose.

Freddy Kruger

7th Oct 2008, 13:43

MFR,you are a natural!very sharp analysis and great foresight.Sadly,I heard from very reliable source, all the 'hard up' CFIs in Wuhai flew today although you people technically do not have any insurance and are aware of it.I know you wanted the hours but at what cost?This is so pathetic,bet you would even sell your soul for Butt!I am so ashamed to even have been acquainted to you in the past.

MosesFrenchieRose

9th Oct 2008, 13:24

FreddyKrueger,it was written on the wall,haven't anyone noticed?Brian Butt is a professional liar,he does that for a living! :ok:

Don't be too stress out with those in Wuhai,they will fly even if there is a Katrina approaching.:}

So everybody just sit back and accept your fate like a loser while Butt and his accomplices laughing their way to the bank every 25th?What happens to 'strike' or is the new Butt's boy Sebastian too engrossed in looking after himself?He is kissing Butt's butt!Have some pride people.Do you actually have insurance?Have you seen them?Where is the leadership Sebastian or have you lost your marbles? :D

Fareastdriver

9th Oct 2008, 15:44

The Company will pay everyone on Oct 6th, after the National holiday, when the money has been transferred

It's now the 9th October. What's the latest excuse?

espiritdecorp

9th Oct 2008, 16:55

Dear professional colleagues,

You have just signed your own 'Death Warrant' by letting Butt screw you as he pleases!

happylife

10th Oct 2008, 15:00

We haven't received any money :{

All of us can not stand this place any more but we have no money to buy airtickets home :ugh:

Even students are wishing that Panam will go bankrupt because they want to escape from this HELL :ooh:

Butt, if you want all of us to be happy, you should shut down the company immidiately so that we can move on to our next happylife :D

ssassik

11th Oct 2008, 05:18

Fellow flight instructors,Stop begging, WAKE UP. Pack up and leave. China is not the only place.

Mario Brothers

11th Oct 2008, 05:30

Fellow ex-colleauges and those that are considering going to BPIAA!!!

This email is laughable. Take a look at what "the natural one" is trying to do here. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to read between the lines on this one! So you're going to spend 1.2 million that was going to be used for parts to pay the instructors? Do the math - maintenance crumbles.

You think investors are going to inject money into your empire? Look at the world market, "natural one." Who are you trying to fool?

Bautou agreed to let you fly 100 hours per day? How in hell do you think that's going to happen with broke airplanes and no spare parts? How much did that cost? Don't lie and say you negotiated it for free!!! More money spent that could pay for the housing allowances YOU promised to pay months ago.

What about the electricity being cut off in the instructor dorms in the Shizz? Now you're telling them to go get their own apartment and you'll pay for it? Ha Ha Ha!!!!! You can't pay for the one's you owe now!!!

Butthead, you're like a cat chasing it's own tail..!!!! You actually believe your own lies!!

Here's the email, world..!!!!

Dear Professional Colleagues,I am sorry I was unable to talk to you as I have been very busy for the past ten days, trying to come up with your salary. As you know paying of your salary punctually is on the top of my payment list for the past 7 months that I have been in this office. If I were a just-another-businessman/CEO, I would have delayed paying your salary, and use the limited cash to buy fuel and spare parts - so that the aircraft can fly. I have not done this for the past six months. I elected to pay you salary punctually at the expenses of operational efficiency. Why? Because, like you, I am a bread winner, I am a father of two boys, I know how important to put food on the table.

We were supposed to have a fresh injection of money from AIG end of August. This was delayed due to the recent financial crush. We are not a sitting duck, and we are earnestly trying ways to solve the cash flow issue. These are the solutions:

We are expecting US$1.2 million to come in from Diamond Aircraft. This is the money which is supposed to use to buy spare parts. We have requested Diamond to wire the money to us. I made the request as early as one month ago - ie. early September.

There are at least four to five serious and aggressive buyers who are interested to invest in PanAm. However, buying such large business requires time and effort. It will take at least 3 to 6 months to complete.This is why we are asking the potential investors to come up with a bridge loan ranging from US$5 to 10 million. All the potential buyers understand that PanAm needs cash urgently and they are willing to come up with a bridge loan.

The external factors are still very good for PanAm. We have strong support from CAAC. We have a very important meeting with CAAC and Baotou Airport in mid-Sept. To cut the long story short, Baotou Airport pledged to allow us to fly 100 hours per day. This is an excellent news to us.

I write to ask for your patience and understanding so that we can get thru this difficult period together. I am expecting the money will come in within the next 15 days. When the money arrives, you will be paid first. I am travelling around all bases this week to explain our situation to you, and to answer any questions you may have. Today I am in SJZ, I will be in Handan tomorrow, Baotou on Wed and Wuhai on Thursday.

We have to show our clients and our students that we are working together in harmony, and that you, as an important member of PanAm, are showing your support to PanAm.

I thank you in advance for your patience and understanding.

Best RegardsBrian

If anyone believes all this BS, you deserve to work there!!!!

tbavprof

11th Oct 2008, 05:32

All of us can not stand this place any more but we have no money to buy airtickets home

Contact your embassy for help.

"Repatriation is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

Newark Newbie

11th Oct 2008, 07:21

There are at least four to five serious and aggressive buyers who are interested to invest in PanAm. However, buying such large business requires time and effort. It will take at least 3 to 6 months to complete.This is why we are asking the potential investors to come up with a bridge loan ranging from US$5 to 10 million. All the potential buyers understand that PanAm needs cash urgently and they are willing to come up with a bridge loan.

The question is, Brian, do the investors know why PanAm needs cash? Do the investors know the real history of PanAm?

I think since you claim
We have to show our clients and our students that we are working together in harmony, and that you, as an important member of PanAm, are showing your support to PanAm.

that you should put your mouth where their money is and have an open forum with the investors and the important members of PanAm (instructors) so the truth about that company will be revealed.

MosesFrenchieRose

11th Oct 2008, 07:23

ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun1.scoundrel - a wicked or evil person; someone who does evil deliberately
http://img.tfd.com/wn/0A/699F7-scoundrel.gif
villain (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/villain)
unwelcome person (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unwelcome+person), persona non grata (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/persona+non+grata) - a person who for some reason is not wanted or welcome

blackguard (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/blackguard), bounder (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bounder), cad (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cad), hound (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hound), heel (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/heel), dog (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dog) -
someone who is morally reprehensible; "you dirty dog"
gallows bird (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gallows+bird) - a person who deserves to be hanged

knave (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/knave), rapscallion (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rapscallion), rascal (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rascal), rogue (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rogue), varlet (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/varlet), scalawag (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scalawag), scallywag (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scallywag) - a deceitful and unreliable scoundrel

tbavprof

11th Oct 2008, 09:27

Que bueno! English lessons from a Tico! Pura vida mae!

knee how

11th Oct 2008, 13:55

Fellow flight instructors,Stop begging, WAKE UP. Pack up and leave. China is not the only place.I bet the beggars outside Jigaou's earnt more than us these last two months.

But I really pity the students. Imagine having to wait f****en 6 months just to do one VFR nav only for it to be canceled because f****en ATC decides to cancel the flight because of CB's that don't exist. What a f****en joke General Aviation is in China. :rolleyes:

knee how

11th Oct 2008, 14:03

Chinese whispers going around at the moment that something BIG is going to happen this week. It's BIG news folks .. bigger than the f****en great wall of china. Anyone have more news?

espiritdecorp

11th Oct 2008, 15:04

:D:D:DI bet the beggars outside Jigaou's earnt more than us these last two months.:D:D:D

You don't have to bet, that is a fact My fellow professional colleague!

MosesFrenchieRose

11th Oct 2008, 15:56

HIRING NOW.

Position: Beggar
Location: Outside Ji Gao's Kitchen
Insurance: NONE (SAME AS PAN AM!)
Renumeration: DEFINITELY ON TIME! BETTER THAN PAN AM!
Qualifications: All Pan Am CFIs qualifies automatically.

Send all your CVs to Brian Butt

espiritdecorp

19th Oct 2008, 14:24

Dear professional colleagues,

What is the odds of you guys getting paid this month?

1 000 000 to 1!

What is the odds of Brian Butt and his clowns getting paid this month?

:ok:100 f:mad:king % :ok:

Business as usual my dear professional colleagues! Business as usual!

BlueSkyLife

19th Oct 2008, 15:27

Dear guys wearing "Pilot uniforms :ugh:",

Since you all are hypnotised by (BBS INC.) Butt's Bulls:mad:t & Scam Incoperations, what are your plans as we approach another 25th of "No Salary", adding that its approaching 2 months unpaid and soon to be 3?

Word on the net is that we have something "brewing:suspect:" for the BBS inc., Will this be a heroic move by angry CFIs or will they be hypnotised:bored: again by the dumbest HR ever?

X-employees stay tuned as the critical details will unfold this week!:D

Freddy Kruger

19th Oct 2008, 17:14

Too bad you guys got rid of DB.Now you have no natural leader to lead the pack.we are very sure SM will continue orderin you 'professional X-colleagues' to continue flyin rather than standin up for what is right.also heard Butt and his bunch of misfits continue gettin their salary without a glitch.do not even talk about HR,apparently they just put somebody named penny there,already gave you a hint how much her words worth!

Alpha_Dog

21st Oct 2008, 08:41

Something is brewing for the 25th... but something very simply. I'm afraid to disappoint you. The formula is trivial: "no pay - no work". Butt can look for some Chinese sweat-shop morons to work for months in hopes for a salary that may never come. I know it's a normal practice in China but we ain't Chinese, bro. Expect mass resignations across the board of instructors and good-byes. Last dinner at JiGaos, last drink at the Hollywood Bar, last bathhouse session at DaJienLu. Nothing too dramatic. :ok:

aime

22nd Oct 2008, 06:43

... Long before Beijing Panam got into aviation they were actually in the shipping business.

Their story can be seen on you tube:

YouTube - You're inside the Titanic when it sinks!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vndq94gToYo&feature=related)

Enjoy.

BlueSkyLife

23rd Oct 2008, 10:35

I cant believe after Butt and his buddies failed miserably with more than 100 promises, they are still trying to uphold law and order in the company. These guys is persistent enough after all credeibility is lost they still try to get by with more lies. Does Butt think the foreigners are robots like the chinese staff they got working for them. F:mad:k the Law and order, he is going to have his little long lasting dream cut short.

ssassik

23rd Oct 2008, 16:17

flight instructors, WAKE UP............ ENOUGH IS ENOUGH............

MosesFrenchieRose

23rd Oct 2008, 16:18

Brian Butt and his two scoundrels has ZERO credibility! It is pathetic that as the supposing 'leaders' of a company, the three of you have done NOT ONE POSITIVE thing for the academy. If you have even one tiny bit of dignity in you, you guys would have left months ago but then again, the money is too easy and good, isn't it? but be forewarned, your days are numbered! Seriously!

Mario Brothers

24th Oct 2008, 05:22

Yes, this is true. The ultimatum is being delivered today to none other than the distinguished Director Li..!!! The man responsible for hiring "the natural."

Big instructor meeting happening as this is being written. 3 instructors from Wuhai turned in their resignations.

Couple of demands:

1. All back pay received immediately.

2. Butt is removed from Panam.

These conditions are not met, everyone resigns.

Stay tuned for the results of this meeting. We'll see how many more lies everyone believes.

MB

espiritdecorp

26th Oct 2008, 02:48

:D:D:D:ok::D:D:D Current Pan Am CFIs

:}:}:}:ouch::}:}:} Butt and his bunch of misfits

Droste

28th Oct 2008, 08:50

I have few questions about the GA scene in China.

Q1. Has the GA flight training resume already?
Q2. Does anybody has difficulty in applying China work visa lately?

Fareastdriver

28th Oct 2008, 09:54

What happened at the meeting?

BlueSkyLife

28th Oct 2008, 12:01

Lets me put it this way; we were asked to continuing singing while the Titanic (PANAM) sank to the ocean floor. :bored:

We were asked to hold on just a bit longer. They have until the 31st of October to pay up. If they do they have until Nov. 30 to have an investment. If none of these dates are met we are free to go.....broke that is!!!!!:{:{:{

More promises and assurance!!!
Hopes dont pay the bills and hold off the Loan sharks too long.:ouch:

emb145gearslinger

28th Oct 2008, 21:58

Maybe tomorrow is better.

MosesFrenchieRose

31st Oct 2008, 07:11

anybody got paid?your ultimatum is like an empty can,lots of noise but nothing on the inside.stay there because there is where all you guys truly belongs!

Freddy Kruger

31st Oct 2008, 21:00

http://www.allfunnypictures.com/images2/pumpkinbutt.jpg

Happy Halloween from Brian's Butt and his bunch of misfits! So the Argentinians back out of the petition?

BlueSkyLife

5th Nov 2008, 13:12

After that meeting was called in for all instructors last month there seemed to be hope after we got paid on that deadline. Now things seem really quiet!!:suspect: Even the Butt Brother have been quiet for the past days. I think he is a ashamed to show his face after he travelled to the bases and tried to convince us that there will be money in the "15 days" he has coming to pay us out of.

Here is another deal; alot of investors looked in to panam, many declined. Dont we think the remaining investors will ask why they declined and feel stupid to not decline too.
Look at it this way if you had planned to buy a car 10 other people are interested in and 9 stepped away; would you still buy it. I'm sure you would be worried:hmm:

I can just feel the end swooping in on us this month!:{

happylife

5th Nov 2008, 14:35

The remaining investors are just waiting for one of this to happen:

1. The time when Butt begs them to buy Panam at whatever price :suspect:

or

2. The time when Butt gives up running Panam and goes home :}

As long as Butt insists on staying in that position with that kind of salary, no sensible investor will ever buy Panam. :ugh:

It will be a matter of time before Panam goes bankrupt. :yuk:

emb145gearslinger

5th Nov 2008, 14:57

Are you guys even flying now? Sounds like you are all out of cash. I heard the hotels and fuel guys have not paid in a while.

knee how

5th Nov 2008, 15:07

News forthcoming tomorrow. Check your emails then.

MosesFrenchieRose

5th Nov 2008, 19:32

You people should seriously consider signing a Vote of No Confidence (please leave out the ACFI and the other Argentinian!) and get that scoundrel out of there.Mr.Ass, any person with pride would have bow and take leave,don't you feel even a little ashamed?You thought the airlines are dumb like AIG to hand you more money?

BlueSkyLife

10th Nov 2008, 02:24

It seems the Butt Dynasty will rule for another deacade. He is still presumed the ruler and king of the Panam servants inc., and will be given more rulership over the coming months.

In a letter from AIG we present; his Western Allies strengthening his already devastating personality and power.
:mad::mad::mad::mad::eek::mad::ugh::{:{:yuk::(:}:ouch::=:zzz : (the faces of each foreign instructor). NO ONE IS HAPPY WITH THIS, Maybe Argentina is when they refused to sign!:uhoh:

Thank you for the feedback. These are very difficult and trying times for all of us. As you may know, Brian does not control when new funding may come in. As you may also expect, things never go accordingly to plan when the financial markets are as volatile as it is now. The situation at BPA is dire and Brian has made numerous sacrifices to get BPA on track. I will not get into particulars on this email but suffice it to say that he continues to put the financial situation of the Company before himself. Things are never as simple as it seems on the surface and actions can often be misinterpreted from its true intent. The main thing is that BPA needs everyone’s support to pull through and not divided interests. We are hopeful of a financial solution that will put BPA back on the path to stable growth. In the meantime, we request that we think and move as a team.

He seems to have a spell on AIG as again he wins and we loose. Is this the moment where we preapre for a rebellion against the leading power or will we shrivel and take our "tails" between our legs like poor homeless dogs?

This is a serious case and we are now in the month of truce to find who will be responsible for derailing the company.

Good Luck to all out there!
All hell is set to break this month if there is no money!!!!

MosesFrenchieRose

10th Nov 2008, 04:34

He seems to have a spell on AIG as again he wins and we loose. Is this the moment where we preapre for a rebellion against the leading power or will we shrivel and take our "tails" between our legs like poor homeless dogs?

Seems like that Jackass totally throw all your concerns out the window because at the end of the day, Butt destroys your lives and not that Jackass! You people threaten to resign if Butt stays? Lets see if you are going to keep true to your words or let the Butt Dynasty laugh in your face. Pan Am have 2 Argentinian saps there, don't be another Argentinian!

Mario Brothers

10th Nov 2008, 08:29

Hey, BlueSkyLife:

Very well put, but if we are going to raise hell, let's raise it completely. That response was fron none other than our own Peter Whang. Wow, Peter; you should consider being "Osama Obama's" running mate in 2012 with all that rhetoric!!! You sound like a damn politician on the campaign trail. Not to mention U.S. tax dollars bailed your company's "BUTT" out to the tune of $80 billion, and then they have the nerve to throw a $400,000.00 company junket to celebrate!

Let's take a look at the inital complaint here, and you will notice that NOTHING was mentioned in the response BlueSkyLife posted above regarding Butt's continuous lying:

Dear Board of Directors,

We, the foreign flight instructors of Beijing PanAm International Aviation Academy, would like to address the following concerns expressed below.

Our major concern is that of the status of our current President and CEO, Mr. Brian Butt. As a group, we feel that Brian has performed inadequately as the President of Beijing PanAm. Throughout his employment thus far, he has shown a lack of respect and professionalism to all employees of Beijing PanAm. Over the past several months, he and his management team have successfully alienated themselves from the foreign instructors, but we also believe from a majority of the Chinese staff and students. We no longer have any confidence in the decisions that he makes, as well as his ability to lead this company through this difficult period and into a successful future.

Upon his arrival at Beijing PanAm, Brian proceeded to sit down with our acting CFI and ACFI of Baotou, two people who wanted the positions for the right reasons, and insulted and belittled them to the point they stepped down from those positions. This attitude towards employees of Beijing PanAm has not changed. During many of our meetings with Brian, he has belittled and shown a lack of respect for both the foreign instructors and Chinese employees, even when both groups were present in the same room together.

In addition, the company has lost quality instructors, that it has invested large amounts of money in, due to the fact that he was offering unreasonable contract renewal terms. These terms were often less desirable than the first contract the instructors signed with Beijing PanAm. This approach towards the contracts has also affected the company’s ability to recruit new instructors and is one of the main reasons instructors are looking for employment elsewhere.

Due to a lack of leadership and communication throughout this tough financial period for Beijing PanAm and its employees, morale has been forced lower than any other period in Beijing PanAm’s history. Brian has shown numerous times that his “word” means nothing, and he consequently no longer has any credibility with the foreign instructors. Most things we have been told in meetings have been false statements. While these may have been meant to keep instructors with Beijing PanAm, they have had the opposite effect because we continually find out those statements are indeed false.

So at this time, with the best interests of the company and its customers in mind, we respectfully request the resignation or removal of Mr. Brian Butt from the position of President, CEO of Beijing PanAm.

Sincerely,
Beijing PanAm Foreign Flight Instructors

Now, let's post the response in it's entirity:

Thank you for the feedback. These are very difficult and trying times for all of us. As you may know, Brian does not control when new funding may come in. As you may also expect, things never go accordingly to plan when the financial markets are as volatile as it is now. The situation at BPA is dire and Brian has made numerous sacrifices to get BPA on track. I will not get into particulars on this email but suffice it to say that he continues to put the financial situation of the Company before himself. Things are never as simple as it seems on the surface and actions can often be misinterpreted from its true intent. The main thing is that BPA needs everyone's support to pull through and not divided interests. We are hopeful of a financial solution that will put BPA back on the path to stable growth. In the meantime, we request that we think and move as a team.

Rds,

Peter Whang
BPA BOD member
AIG Investments
Managing Director

Let's also not fail to mention that only 11 instructors signed the petition, and none of the Agentinians signed..!!!! What does that tell you?

MB

Genghis Khan

10th Nov 2008, 11:49

Mario,

Great post, dude! I left the commies a year ago, and laugh at all this crap on layovers!!!

things never go accordingly to plan when the financial markets are as volatile as it is now.

Dude, YOU AND AIG ARE ONE OF THE REASONS THE FINANCIAL MARKETS ARE VOLITILE, BECAUSE YOU MAKE BAD INVESTMENTS AND HIRE A RAGING MANIAC TO RUN YOUR OPERATION.

Mario, it's not 80 billion; it's like 150 billion!!!! Check out the latest from Washington posted on Yahoo:

WASHINGTON – The government on Monday provided new financial assistance to troubled insurance giant American International Group, including pouring $40 billion into the company in return for partial ownership.

The action, announced jointly by the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department, was taken as it became increasingly clear that an original financial lifeline thrown to AIG in September would not be sufficient to stabilize the teetering company. All told, the moves boost aid to the company to around $150 billion.

Who's this guy trying to fool, here? $150 billion bailout, and you guys can't get paid!!! This is the laugh of the century if you hang around there.

Keep up the great posts, instructors!!!

espiritdecorp

10th Nov 2008, 15:56

YOU AND AIG ARE ONE OF THE REASONS THE FINANCIAL MARKETS ARE VOLITILE, BECAUSE YOU MAKE BAD INVESTMENTS AND HIRE A RAGING MANIAC TO RUN YOUR OPERATION.
:D:D:D

Genghis,you couldn't have put it any better.Clearly these people from AIG couldn't give a crap about those CFIs :}:ouch: You guys are not indispensable but the CEO is!How can Pan Am operate without Butt?

I wouldn't comment about the Argentinians though,they have their reasons I am sure!:ok:

Newark Newbie

11th Nov 2008, 05:26

Before I begin this post, I'd like to refer to a quote made by a U.S. Congressman on the recent $700 billion bailout:

One of the most dangerous effects of this bailout is the incredibly elevated risk of moral hazard in the future. The worst performing financial services firms, even those who have been taken over by the government or have filed for bankruptcy, will find all of their poor decision-making rewarded. What incentive do Wall Street firms or any other large concerns have to make sound financial decisions, now that they see the federal government bailing out private companies to the tune of trillions of dollars? As Congress did with the legislation authorizing the Fannie and Freddie bailout, it proposes a solution that exacerbates and encourages the problematic behavior that led to this crisis in the first place.

I sat through 1 full year of the BPIAA "BS" and heard promises, promises, promises from the Chinese management. I was personally interviewed by two representatives from AIG during my employment there where I was questioned as to my insite into the company structure and problems they were having. Several other people were interviewed as well, and as I see it now, none of our recommendations or complaints were even considered.

AIG was wrapped up in believing the lies of the "Li Brothers", Ding, and a host of other Chinese dignataries instead of listening to the professional aviators and managers that told them the truth about the payoffs to ATC, military, and other agencies in order to fly.

It was disclosed that the Bejing Office, under the direction of Jack Li, had never reported the loss of revenue due to the non-payment by the airlines because the students could'nt graduate. When Li was asked, in the meeting with AIG, of which I was present since I was a Class Manager, Li humiliated all of us by saying "the instructors are not efficient." We, on the other hand, informed AIG that we were not allowed to fly due to the weather, ATC delays, and military delays. They just brushed this off and believed Jack Li. We all know why we couldn't fly, but was never able to convince AIG of this problem, which still prevails at BPIAA.

I recall Pat Murphy and Howard Davenport getting into a heated argument with two AIG representatives over the efficiency issue. It was after this argument that AIG removed Jack Li from his position, and replaced him with who?....Tu, who was just as guilty as Jack. The foreigners, (management and instructors), who were suppose to be the experts, were never listened to, and the Chinese, who were competing to be "Top Dog" for status, succeeded in destroying the company.

So, who does AIG replace Tu with?.....not someone with credibility, but a dictator, Chinese president whom they think can resurrect an already failed operation just because he has "6000 hours" flight time.

Now the instructors still left there are suffering from both BPIAA and AIG mis-management. Don't think for one minute that AIG is going to try and salvage BPIAA. They are aggressively searching for un-informed investors to re-coup their losses and do a reverse "bail out."

If there are any U.S. instructors left at that place, I'd write your congressman in your district to file a complaint against AIG operations in Asia. You would be suprised as to what a congressional inquiry would do. Although they may not remove Butt, they could still inquire as to why you're not being paid per your contract.

Since AIG in Asia is governed by the U.S. headquarters, it may be beneficial to file a complaint with them.

[email protected]

Blue Skies:ok:

emb145gearslinger

15th Nov 2008, 16:06

So have you guys at PanAm been paid yet? If not how the hell do you support yourselves there? I know it's cheap and all, but come on. Leave already.

Fareastdriver

16th Nov 2008, 00:20

They have possibly lost all their internet connections because the bills haven't been paid.

knee how

16th Nov 2008, 06:14

So have you guys at PanAm been paid yet? If not how the hell do you support yourselves there? I know it's cheap and all, but come on. Leave already.

We were paid last month literally at the eleventh hour. We gave them a deadline of 31st October or we all resign, and they came with the money at 11:15pm on 31st October.

Rumours circulating at the moment is that AIG's shares have been bought out by a Chinese investor. No-one's saying much at the moment, but one noticeable difference is that we're now flying again and have been doing so for one week. Still the same bull**** with military restrictions and limited cross-country flights, though, but at least we're flying again.

Fareastdriver

16th Nov 2008, 09:00

Well, I'm grateful for you all if nothing else.

MosesFrenchieRose

22nd Nov 2008, 18:24

Many of us who left Pan Am are so excited to see how things are going to unfold this month.Heard many of you wanted Butt removed?otherwise?Walk the talk my fellow instructors, or you might as well exile yourself to the Patagonian Andes with your tail between your legs.

happylife

30th Nov 2008, 03:04

Are we getting paid today?

Butt never inform us what's going on about new investors and our November salary. How can this person be called a CEO? He is the most irresponsible and unprofessional CEO I have ever met. :}

I am sure many of us will leave if we don't hear from the company by today.:ugh:

espiritdecorp

30th Nov 2008, 07:36

What do you not understand?:DButt does not need to give any of you explanation because he is the ALMIGHTY:}don't you guys get it by now?Haven't you guys learnt anything the past few months?:ok:What happened to your words guys?You have to eat it now?

MosesFrenchieRose

6th Dec 2008, 19:25

Are you people still waiting for the new investor to finalise the handing over?incidentally the words out there is that Pan Am is still looking for investors.you people has been taken for a ride.heard this from very reliable source.

BlueSkyLife

7th Dec 2008, 00:03

I am starting to believe the words of MosesFrechierose. :ok:

In the last meeting we had with Li we asked who was the Investor and how sure was he about the Investment. He said he is positive and its an investor from inner mongolia. That person I believe had backed out a long time ago, and to me he sounded lost for words when we asked. We heard nothing until pay day that the paper work will take some time (10-15 days). According to Li the investor has already signed the contract it just takes time for the CAAC to process.

I am also wondering, since this investor already owns the company now in panam's perspective, whats so hard about taking some money from the bank account to pay us. Li's reply is that he felt bad about asking the man for money to pay us when the papers are not acknowledge as yet by the CAAC.

This whole deal is about money:ugh:, what is he talking about. The investor must have known Panam is desperate and would actually probably offer some money to let us stay. You dont pay us we leave, we leave the company dies:8. And not because it would be at a cheaper price for him but this place would be known, it would have to relocate to escape being called panam again. I am pretty sure that if I were him I would be desperate to not allow 1 more instrutor to leave, so asking for money is what any business man would do to save his company not his pride. So needless to say, its a business minded act and not a rational thought.:O

You right Moses, we are on a ride out to the deep blue sea without a compass. Soon we will hit an ice-berg.

For those on the outside looking in, look away:eek:. For those on the inside looking out,:{.

tbavprof

7th Dec 2008, 10:48

This a great thread for a monthly dose of entertainment. BOHICA

It's simply amazing how much abuse you guys will tolerate.

MosesFrenchieRose

7th Dec 2008, 15:55

There are only four life vests on this sinking ship but ironically only Penny, Sebastian,Alice and Butthole himself are donning them.Funny you mentioned about abuse.Giving out your salary that you rightfully earned like some charitable soup kitchen and putting all of you in a third world country without insurance.THAT is ABUSE, but all of you have grown accustomed to it a long time ago.In layman terms,you can say you have been conditioned.None of you have the decency to even have some respect for yourself,why would Butt and his bunch of misfits have any for you?

espiritdecorp

15th Dec 2008, 14:07

So you guys finally throw in the towels?I mean,after Butt wipe his ass with them?:}It is sad to hear that this Hermit went into hiding in his small little shell instead of standup and face the music like a man.:ok::ok:Many of us feel sorry for you butt most of you deserves it with the exception of the Argentinian,since you do not even believed in yourself.:ugh:

My door is always open!Please come in and see me a few days later after I finish counting my greenback!Lots to count!

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:jO2T4g34ACQT0M:http://www.stampers-corner.com/gallery/images/hermit-crab-case.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.stampers-corner.com/gallery/images/hermit-crab-case.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.stampers-corner.com/gallery/default.asp%3Ffilter%3Dname%26filterby%3DCindy%2520Welch&usg=__FTYfUxc4C0xgWAurZzk2mZ9kEz4=&h=512&w=650&sz=31&hl=en&start=97&um=1&tbnid=jO2T4g34ACQT0M:&tbnh=108&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhermit%2Bcrab%26start%3D90%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1 %26hl%3Den%26newwindow%3D1%26sa%3DN)MrArse with his white flag sailing away after guiding the Titanic towards the iceberg.

BlueSkyLife

21st Dec 2008, 00:23

It looks like Panam has fallen into a Coma over the past months. It will not Die and it will not recover from its almost Fatal injuries:ouch:.

People are giving up on this sick sucker and going back to their regular life styles. A few of us are next to "Its bed" waiting for a sigh of life.:sad:

Im pretty sure that by the end of the year if this "bastard" doenst wake up and look around him to see his supporters, we are going to all leave it to die.

Jbroey3

21st Dec 2008, 04:37

pathetic

Not getting paid for 3 months? Who in their right, self respecting minds would take it up the @$$ for that long. :rolleyes::ugh:

Always Moving

23rd Dec 2008, 07:58

So? did they close the door?

So I can close this very long lasting thread?
It has been entertaining to say the least.

Sorry for you guys if you still there and Merry Christmas for everyone!

AM

KAG

23rd Dec 2008, 08:26

Yes I guess you can close it.

Your thread and Panam itself was a hell of an adventure.

Not only bad things happened there. And amazing people worked there.

This is the end.

Merry Christmas to you always moving and to all of the former Panam employees and instructors.

KAG.

MosesFrenchieRose

25th Dec 2008, 16:08

Has anyone of you ever wonder why Brian Butt is kept on the payroll by AIG at the super high salary scale hiding in his cell like a little girl?If this is not the mother of all SCAM, then what is?Heard all of you have been very naughty this year because Santa came visiting without your presents?To those of you who has left,well done.For those who are still there,well done too,at least you guys are the optimist romantics!Merry Christmas anyhow!

Always Moving

26th Dec 2008, 05:45

Yiftach Rauch?

HAO BU HAO?
If you know me email me or IM me if not be "blog proper!"

Happy New Year!

espiritdecorp

28th Dec 2008, 04:22

To those of you who are still there!This is the real world!:}:}:}

The biggest CEO firings of 2008
Matthew Kirdahy, Forbes.com
Posted: 26 December 2008 1026 hrs

There are two kinds of CEO firings," says Noel Tichy, a professor at the Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan. "There are the crooks and there are the incompetents." This year the biggest departing names all fell into a gray area in between. :ok::ok:

Ever wonder which side your CEO fell in?

SearchandDestroy

5th Jan 2009, 12:51

The Standard - Hong Kong's First FREE English Newspaper (http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=4&art_id=76497&sid=22093423&con_type=1&d_str=20090102&fc=8)

Mario Brothers

6th Jan 2009, 09:50

This article was published on January 2, 2009 in a Hong Kong newspaper!! This is great stuff!!!! :ok: Hey, Sebastian, spend that 5000RMB you received this month wisely!!! Might be the last you get...:eek:

Aviators train sights on flying school boss

Timothy Chui

Friday, January 02, 2009

The former head of the Hong Kong Government Flying Service is at the center of a brewing row with aviators at the mainland's biggest privately owned aviation academy.

In an anonymous letter sent to The Standard, foreign flying instructors at the Beijing Pan Am International Aviation Academy accuse Brian Butt Yiu-ming of driving a wedge between management and instructors, breaches of contract and racial discrimination.

They also allege humiliating treatment has resulted in the number of instructors dropping from 100 when the academy was formed in 2004 to about seven at present.

They say the academy's Shijiazhuang, Handan, Bautou and Beijing bases are losing 400,000 yuan (HK$454,000) a day and that official operations ceased on December 22.

Butt said most grievances were due to a lack of resources and financial support rather than his style of management.

He insisted that the academy still employs 50 mainland and overseas instructors and that the cut from 100 was to reduce wastage.

He said although the school had stopped taking new students it would continue to operate until the current batch of 300 students graduate.

Butt said that the company had shortlisted two potential investors who were now going through its books.

In their letter the instructors said Butt was "penny wise and pound foolish."

"But our parent-company AIG thinks that he is doing a good job and thinks he deserves to be awarded shares. If only the American taxpayers knew where their tax money is going," they said.

They allege salaries were not paid on time, if at all, and that when pay day did arrive they were subjected to humiliating pay ceremonies where salaries were publicly announced before being handed out.

They claim academy support for visas, insurance and hotel accommodation, previously provided for by contract, were reduced or eliminated and that promises of housing allowances never materialized.

The instructors also say Butt had refused Chinese flight licenses to Jamaican, Israeli and Italian flight instructors claiming their countries were on the Civil Aviation Authority of China's warning list. Inquiries revealed there was no such list.

The three instructors later obtained their licenses from CAAC through the actions of academy director Peter Whang.

Butt's management was described as curtailing rights and benefits, forcing staff to decide between a pay cut or leaving at their own expense including contract penalties for early self-termination.

A petition by some teaching staff was forwarded to the company's board of directors in November calling for Butt's removal. However, a reply from managing director of AIG Investments and BPA board of directors member Peter Whang asked instructors to work with Butt while the school seeks emergency funding.

Tuition at the mainland flight academy for a 14-month course costs just under HK$660,000.

Always Moving

8th Jan 2009, 02:06

Do you have a link to the paper where it was published?

Nicely done, but whoever did that it should of done it a year ago!

Freddy Kruger

8th Jan 2009, 17:01

Always Moving, one year ago it was bad, really bad, but not unbearable.You should hear the sh:mad:it he put everybody through since his arrival 9 months ago.This guy is a magician,everything he touches turns to SH:mad:IT,can't really help it when you got a name like that I guess?

rwong2005

9th Jan 2009, 12:40

here is the link:ok:

The Standard - Hong Kong's First FREE English Newspaper (http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=11&art_id=76497&sid=22093423&con_type=1&d_str=20090102)

Mario Brothers

10th Jan 2009, 04:51

Sebastian,

This email you sent out is laughable. You're a politician, bubba!! I "beg?" Ha Ha Ha!!!!! You make "demands," and now you "beg."

What is it with all you guys still there? The entire aviation world is laughing at you!! Since when did Panscam EVER put safety first? And your "begging" is really going to solve the situation!!!

Here is the latest from my FORMER assistant chief! Enjoy:

Sent: Friday, January 9, 2009 6:23:05 PM
Subject: From Baotou Base

Mr. Li
Mr. Butt
Mr. Qian
Mr. Chen

Today I received a phone call from different students asking me if I would Fly tomorrow January 10, 2009. I also heard that Baotou Base will resume operations.

This email is to inform you that NOBODY, contact me to let me know that we will fly tomorrow. Since I am the Assistant Chief Pilot in Baotou Base, I am supposed to review all the conditions before resume operations if the Chief Pilot is not at the Base. This is AGAIN, a totally disrespect to me.

I am letting you know that I DO NOT agree to start flying again tomorrow for the following reasons.

1) I don't think students will progress flying with different instructors. It will be a waste of time and money for the company.

2) Maintenance, Dispatch and Instructors didn't get paid for almost 3 month and they are VERY UPSET with the current situation, this is totally UNSAFE!!!

3) The Stress within the flying staff was push to the limit already for the last 3 month. UNSAFE!!

4) There is no authority from the flight department to control the operations. UNSAFE!!

5) Most of the instructor and Students didn't fly for a month UNSAFE!! and the students are already PUSHING the instructors to fly. UNSAFE!!!

6) We Don't have Medical Insurance.

I beg all the leaders of Beijing Pan Am, to cease operations until after the Spring Festival for SAFETY REASONS, give time to the Directors to get the new money and start operations normally again. This is not a "Strike" the foreigners here were supporting Pan Am for the last 3 month, BUT I THINK ALL THIS CIRCUMSTANCES PUSHED THE SAFETY TO THE LIMIT. We stop flying a month ago waiting for the 141 certification, OUR LIFE and SAFETY ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAT THE 141. and the current conditions are still the same or worse today than 1 month ago.

Since It seems to me that my position is not necessary anymore, I will process and talk with HR to go back as a regular flight instructor.

I hope all of you agree with me on this email.

Thank you very Much,

Happy Spring Festival!

SearchandDestroy

10th Jan 2009, 15:00

Sebastian Manzo, you are truly Butt's PROTEGE! We are pretty sure he is very proud of you! You demanded for respect just like your mentor, you are so full of yourself, you are clueless about what you are doing, you are shameless, you are lazy and not very smart, in other words, you are a Brian Butt in the making. Congratulations and well done :ok:You are like an ungrateful dog that bite the hand that feeds you. The only clever thing you have done so far is to step down from your position, definitely better than being demoted. Guess you already heard that all your fellow subordinates already have your name on the 'To be fired' list? :eek:

KAG

11th Jan 2009, 06:35

141 certification

we will fly tomorrow

It really seems this is not the end. Apparently you guys stayed there for something.

Be safe and good luck.

Freddy Kruger

20th Jan 2009, 01:28

Anybody knows where your 'leader' is?I know he is running with his tail between his legs somewhere out there.Brian,you should have seen it coming,haven't you learn anything from Saddam or Hitler? :ouch::ouch::ouch:

sweet flyer

7th Feb 2009, 16:49

you think he returned to Hong Kong for Chinese New year and never return to BPIAA? Which 2 investors did he refer to anyway? You guys should get out of there fast, not everybody is lucky to land on Hudson River unharmed.....:=

Hudson_Hawk

17th Feb 2009, 04:41

B.Butt is definitely gone. We've been doing jack for the last 3 months. Got paid. Most of us (PanAmers) are home or abroad - enjoying BBQs on sandy beaches and sky as blue as the God intended.

Is JFTA hiring now? I've seen their advert on "Climbto350" from Feb 11th.

Joe D, are you still there ?

emb145gearslinger

17th Feb 2009, 19:54

So is Panam officially shut down or what? Congrats on finally getting paid. To the bath house!!!

sweet flyer

18th Feb 2009, 08:34

Yeah, congrats. I googled and understand that Butt Head is appointed technical flying expert by the Ministry of Public Security since last November. The contract term is 3 years. Anybody wants to bet how long he will remain there?:eek:

sweet flyer

18th Feb 2009, 08:37

if not officially, it's literally dead. The website is outdated and the English and Chinese sites do not match in terms of personnel charts.

MosesFrenchieRose

18th Feb 2009, 11:19

Sweet flyer,where did you get such interesting news from?Public Security?Can you give us the link?Now everybody will be screwed!Well done Butt,you never ceased to amazed us how you managed to wormed yourself into all these places.How long will Butt remain there?As long as he is collecting his paychecks!I feel sorry for the Hong Kong people!

sweet flyer

18th Feb 2009, 14:52

Unfortunately the article is in CHinese. I am sending you the link of the automatic translation of the article published from the official site of the Ministry of Public Security. Let me know if you can read it or not. Or I will paste the article on the page. Yeah, he's lucky SOB. but I think his luck is running out soon.....

Translated version of http://big5.gov.cn/gate/big5/www.gov.cn/gzdt/2008-11/13/content_1148324.htm (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zhTW&u=http://big5.gov.cn/gate/big5/www.gov.cn/gzdt/2008-11/13/content_1148324.htm&ei=GSycSZqoMpXWkAXc9YmgBQ&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=9&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E6%25AF%2595%25E8%2580%2580%25E6%2598%258E%2 6start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den-us%26sa%3DN%26pwst%3D1)

sweet flyer

18th Feb 2009, 15:01

Mosesfrenchierose

Thank you for your sympathy towards us. Yes, it is amazing how a blunt butt head could get where he is now. You are more fortunate because i am sure he is more "civilized" to gringos than to his Chinese speaking camrades. I heard many shocking stories of how he humiliated his subordinates back then at HK GOVERNment flying service, swearing at them, banging tables, ........but when it comes to ass-kissing, he is real technical expert!

rwong2005

19th Feb 2009, 11:35

I wonder how much he paid for his title right there..
Don't feel pity for the HK people though, he has already retired from the HK police force and happily recieving retirement fund from the HK government every month.

Its true that he has his "reputation" in HK, and I think it's so called "Notorious"

Do you believe what goes around, turns around, Mr.BUTT? 6000 hours in 22 years? wow... that's a lot of management experiences right there. And what did you really contribute to Beijing Pan Am with your management skills? Not much but too busy trying to screw other people's lives.

God bless you, Mr.Butt

sweet flyer

19th Feb 2009, 13:37

Ministry of Public Security, the appointment of police aviation flight training experts for a three-year senior research

The central government portal ????????????????? (http://www.gov.cn) 2008 on 13 Day 11 years Source: Ministry of Public Security Site
【Font: Big Middle Small】
【E-mail Recommend
】

November 12, the Ministry of Public Security Police Aviation Management Office of flight training of technical experts appointed ceremony held at the Ministry of Public Security party committee members, Vice-Minister Liu Captain Butt to the employment of experts presented letters of appointment.

In order to better study and learn from the Hong Kong SAR Government Flying Service in flight training and advanced management experience and practice of the Mainland Police accelerating the development of aircraft, the Ministry of Public Security decided to appoint the former Hong Kong Government Flying Service Captain Butt for "The Ministry of Public Security Police Aviation Management Office of flight training of technical experts," senior research three years. 54-year-old Captain Butt has been the team are the first Chinese director of 6000 hours flying in 22 years, with a long flight and fleet management experience.

Liu said that the mainland public security authorities police aviation building is in a stage of development, a total of 11 provinces and cities in the public security organs equipment 27 helicopters, along with national economic construction, the continuous development of the future will have greater improve. Police aircraft in safety first cause based on the steady development. Air Force around the police building in the fleet, personnel training and flight safety expert guidance in urgent need of the parties concerned. I hope Mr. Captain Butt-yong pick this piculs, the advanced management, science-rich technology and experience to the mainland flight the police, to guide the Mainland police aviation development.

Captain Butt said the job will be required for the Mainland Police aircraft flight crew, maintenance personnel training, fleet management to provide technical guidance and services for the development of the Mainland Police aircraft to help.

espiritdecorp

21st Feb 2009, 02:31

You want some real change? :ok:Revamp the whole outfit! As long as you still have the same bunch of clowns :}:D:= that were under Butthole there even after Butthole is gone, you guys likened yourself to a guy walking in circle in the Gobi Desert. History always repeat itself, haven't you learn nothing? :ugh:

rwong2005

24th Feb 2009, 12:29

I guess it would be a better tomorrow for BPIAA since Mr Butt has run away?

hahahaha... made a mess and then ran away, what kind of leader is he? Did he manage to find new investors at the end? or its only cheap talks?!

Mario Brothers

6th Mar 2009, 06:03

You're glad to be back? We're glad you're back, too! Keep JB and the rest of the losers company. What happened to your 208 training, mate?

Maybe you should try posting on the "wannabes" forum:}

Hudson_Hawk

18th Mar 2009, 17:36

http://www.air-ferry.com/private/BPIAA_accommodation.jpg

KAG

18th Mar 2009, 19:55

I have said on this thread that the fed will never let AIG down.
I was wrong. Unfortunately it appears that AIG doesn' t learn from the past mistakes.

AIG has received $170 billion in taxpayer bailouts and in the fourth quarter of 2008 posted a loss of $61.7 billion, the greatest ever for any corporation. Despite this, AIG announced that they were paying out $165 million in executive bonuses out of taxpayer funds. Total bonuses for the financial unit could reach $450 million and bonuses for the entire company could reach $1.2 billion. This quickly led to what many label a "populist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism) outrage." President Barack Obama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama) responded to the planned bailouts by saying "[I]t’s hard to understand how derivative traders at A.I.G. warranted any bonuses, much less $165 million in extra pay. How do they justify this outrage to the taxpayers who are keeping the company afloat?" and "In the last six months, A.I.G. has received substantial sums from the U.S. Treasury. I’ve asked Secretary Geithner to use that leverage and pursue every legal avenue to block these bonuses and make the American taxpayers whole."

Now because of this scandal, I really beleive a liquidation becomes possible. The hope back in September was that keeping AIG from bankruptcy would prevent a disorderly liquidation. But since AIG has been kept on life support for six months and still has yet to make a significant asset sale, is this process any better than a bankruptcy reorganization?

Last news is that AIG will change name.

Will this inner mongolia school and AIG have the same destiny?

Good luck everyone.

BlueSkyLife

18th Mar 2009, 23:53

This is a great picture. I laughed so hard I need a new stomach.:}
Funny enough as it is the instructors are really living like this. I wont be surprise if they are caught chasing airplanes at PEK to get home!

FlyHighAbove

19th Mar 2009, 00:09

:}http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l124/jdhad1/remoteImage-64.jpg:}
Who is this Guy? Looks like one of PanAm's faithful Instructor.:}

Always Moving

19th Mar 2009, 00:58

So it is official this time! BPIAA is closed?

Hudson_Hawk

19th Mar 2009, 11:47

it's over. everyone got their release letters. no more panam.

Fareastdriver

19th Mar 2009, 17:11

it's over. everyone got their release letters. no more panam.

That's a shame. One of the better threads on PPRuNE.

BlueSkyLife

21st Mar 2009, 02:01

R.I.P Beijing Panam International Aviation Academy.:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Many memories to carry on for the BPA Family.:sad: :{:{:{:{

The Instructors and other staff had no choice as they all packed up and go to their respectable place of residence.

I say BPIAA has formed a solid foundation into the daily stress and irritable management we face for our future jobs.

BPIAA made many friends, marriages, families, sorrows, happiness, new jobs, heartbreaks, laughfter, pain, unforgiving thoughts, as:mad:les, memories, and Aisa at our finger tips.

Good Luck to you all out there, with or without Jobs.

Its a rough world out there!
Tighten your seatbelts, because its about to get worse, the cost of things are not getting any cheaper!!!!!:ugh:

spacepodlife

21st Mar 2009, 02:03

I have just started a business as a fortune teller. It comes out that I am pretty good at foreseeing the future of aviation companies and their employees. If interested my itinerant kiosk will come soon to an entertainment park near you...

Peace

aime

24th Mar 2009, 13:27

Anything. That's: "Haven't you learned anything". I learned that much while walking in circles in the desert.

Namaste :ok:

emb145gearslinger

28th Mar 2009, 23:17

I am going to miss Pan Am.:(

jbayfan

7th Jun 2009, 08:56

To former Beijing Pan Am instructors, besides all the issues with management, what would you change about the operation if it was to be revived? What are your views on aircraft types used, the various bases (which to keep and which to close), the course structure etc?

jbayfan

17th Jun 2009, 08:27

Thanks to those who sent me info by PM. Does anyone know if the bases are still being maintained and where the aircraft are and how they are keeping them airworthy? How many staff are still "employed" by BPIAA?

Also, does anyone know what happened to the roughly 320 students who were training when the academy stopped operating?

Any info would be appreciate. We are considering reviving BPIAA but we need to understand what the problems were and what we are in for.

We are aware of the weather, ATC and fuel issues, as well as certain limitations with the DA40 as an ab-initio trainer.

What else do we need to know?

Fareastdriver

19th Jun 2009, 21:28

Is this thread going to get started again? I'm looking forward to that.

stewie2010

20th Jun 2009, 03:17

Other than you do not know where the students are, you do not seem to know the difference between a bankrupt company and an abandoned one (you reference to" reviving it " ) and have no idea what the status of the aircrafts nor anything else and your business plan is based on asking ex-Bpiaa employees on pprune how to run a multi cultural international aviation business in a foreign country in which you do not speak the language...well,I guess you do not need to know anything else....all ready it seems :ok:

Please hurry..we are all looking forward your great success :)

KAG

20th Jun 2009, 03:34

as well as certain limitations with the DA40 as an ab-initio trainer.

Like what?

stewie2010

20th Jun 2009, 03:42

Please Kag, do not ask silly questions to the great jbayfan...he has other things on his mind....he is about to make aviation history therefore your lack of aviation knowledge and understanding can only be your problem ...hahah..;)

LaoWei

21st Jun 2009, 01:24

as well as certain limitations with the DA40 as an ab-initio trainer. Like what? The DA40s at PanAm had the constant speed propeller, which was not certified for spin training. So PanAm had to address this problem, and they decided to buy some DA40s with the constant pitch prop (which was supposedly going to be certified for spins). By the time I left PanAm 2 years ago, there was no certification and the aircraft had sat on the ramp for months collecting dust. Maybe this is one of the issues.

KAG

21st Jun 2009, 07:12

The DA40s (FP) are certified for spin. Have a look at the pilot handbook.
It has been certified by the CAAC almost 2 years ago. Even before in north america.

knee how

21st Jun 2009, 08:36

Like what?

And what was the reason for having so many prop strikes? :ouch: Wasn't there some investigation done by the company about that? I've never seen so many prop strikes in the one location before.

jbayfan

21st Jun 2009, 10:45

Stewie2010, what exactly qualifies you to comment on any aspect of my post? If you would like to list your qualifications then I will list mine and you can then go and hide in the hole you just crawled out of.

Anyway, who said that we wanted to operate BPIAA in China, or are you always so quick to make assumptions?

I guess you are one of the former "disgruntled" employees other helpful former instructors have warned me about.

Mod, any chance you can remove the probationer from this thread?

jbayfan

21st Jun 2009, 10:50

KAG, the DA40 used at BPIAA has a constant speed propeller and also has the Garmin 1000. For a student pilot this is an information and operational overload, and the DA20 would have been a better aircraft for the first 30 to 40 hours to be followed by the DA40 for advanced training. There is also the issue of the front seat not being adjustable and short students having problems with visibility in the flair and therefore the many prop strikes at BPIAA.

KAG

21st Jun 2009, 15:16

PANAM had several DA40 FixPitch (FP) the last year they "opperated".

Concerning the seat issue, it is true. Some DA40 students have to use a cushion (or something similar) to be able to see correctly.
For the prop strike, well, it didn' t only happen to the "short students"...
Is that a panam issue, or a DA40 issue? I don' t know.

Concerning the Garmin 1000, you can dim the light or switch off the PFD or MFD, you can even , by popping up certain circuit breaker, select the information you want. You can practice "partial panel" It is quite a flexible tool.

stewie2010

22nd Jun 2009, 09:59

I see...so,you want to "revive"Beijing Panam in a different country ...is this correct ? so, for example; Beijing Panam in south africa (BPISA ),yes,I see,very smart,taking the wonderful reputation of BPIAA and maybe shipping from China the well maintained flying machines( that you seem to know so much about..haha) also to south africa (everyone favorite destination:rolleyes: ) and afterwards only having to convince Chinese airlines to retrieve their cadets from where ever they are and sending them to Africa which all Chinese admire for.....well,for not being to close to them..to a new flight school ( BPISA) that would be run by someone which great CV has brought all the way to a hole in Africa and getting his info and knowledge from ex-Panam employees that dont seem to know so much.....wow..its getting better and better..please tell me more..can invest ?Pleeeaaassseeee :)

And yes, tell me your qualifications..I want to make sure I dont end up like you by doing the same mistakes,thanks and for me " Crawling "back in my hole..well, my friend, I am not the one where you are...haha...and dont bother...your qualifications are very clear to everyone:D

Stewie2010 signing out (I do not plan on spending my life posting on pprune like some;) as I have a real job )but will keep an eye for the revived Panam:O