Report Writing Question

[Milarity]

A quick plea for help from anyone current in annual report interpretation and the workings of the promotion board, as ACOS Manning aren't answering the phone this morning.

How much weight is put on the Reporting Officers' background?

After many years in uniform I now find myself as a civilian reporting on uniformed personnel. Am I putting the subjects of the reports at a disadvantage by being a civilian or do I carry the same weight as a military 2nd RO?

Is this an occasion when it would help to sign with "Old Rank (Retd)"?

Should I waste words emphasising my background to try and make the report carry more weight?

Rightly or wrongly, this must be happening more often as posts are civilianized. Any help gratefully received.

[Satellite_Driver]

I once worked alongside a number of other seconded RAF officers in an establishment staffed mainly by civil servants. Our 2nd RO was a civilian but ex-Service, and he used to note in the narrative that he was a retired Eng branch sqn ldr on the basis that this might give his report more weight with promotion boards.

[Whenurhappy]

Having sat on a number of Airmen's Promotion Boards, I have observed that civilian reporting is generally of a poorer quality; indeed good reports were typically from those civilians with a staunch military background, which would be alluded to in the report.

I recently 'engaged' with a SCS who was my 2nd RO over the flippant nature of his report including throw-away comments on promotion prospects. He rapidly retracted the comments when I stated that he had impugned my character; indeed I ended up writing a neutral draft for him, which mentioned both the lack of contact he had had with me and lack of visibility of my work. Feel free to challenge robustly comments that are factually incorrect or without basis. If you are an ex-Service Reporting Officer, mention so in the report, bearing in mind that the narratives are the critical part of the report and will be read - sympathetically - by the Board.

[Seymour Belvoir]

Surely the narative should concentrate on the subject officer and not the reporter.

The board, I hope, will assume that if you are in a position to write an officer's assessment, that you are qualified and have the credibility to do so. It is the quality of the report that is important, not what the reporting chain has achieved in the past.

[Pops556]

Fair play to you for putting your head above the parapet and asking the question!:D

If you are writing the report then the board will accept that you are qualified to comment. My last 2nd RO was a Gruppenfuhrer of some repute who pointed out to me that what was important in his eyes was his statement to the board that, firstly, he was a clinician with knowledge of my specialist field and, secondly, he had daily contact with me and my work and was therefore able to make a reasoned and sound report supporting my 1st RO plus his own views/comments.

[hello1]

Having seen a bundle of reports with one or more civi RO in the chain, my advice is to include an indication that you are a former Serviceman. Putting B1 (Sqn Ldr Retd) might be a bit tacky and it may be better to include something along the lines of 'during my 58 years in the Service'.

Unfortunately my experience of reading the rubbish written by many civi ROs means that the average promotion board is likely to view you as another of a very poor breed unless you subtly make clear that you are not. Posters above might make the assumption that this should not the case but I suspect that they have not had exposure to some of what is written by 1, 2 and 3ROs. The post above is absolutely right, make sure it is about the subject and not you. And under no circumstances offer an exceptional recommendation for promotion unless you can honestly say that the subject is in the top handful of his current rank. A handful is somewhat less than 50 in this respect.

Thank you for posting; I know that some civi ROs do actually care but then you aren't really a civi yet if this is how you approach your reporting responsibilities.

[Pontius Navigator]

We had a rather odd system in place, now thankfully defunct. The 2RO was a Flt Lt and this caused a bit of a problem as the 1st RO was a sqn ldr! We were instructed to sign off as C2 rather than sqn ldr.

In our rather peculiar circumstances I think this subterfuge was recognsed for what it was; a complete bodge job. It also gave rise to an 'unwarrented' number of promotions in our area :}

As we pointed out to the poster, we had well over a centuries worth of experience and we had good men doing a specialist job well. No way we could guess that they were less worthy of promotion than men in the main stream.

[N Joe]

Doesn't add much to the debate but I'll give my thoughts anyway.

Had a civvy 1st RO who was ex-RAF and had done my job before he left. He always made a short comment alluding to this but didn't labour the point and didn't use his rank. Didn't do me any harm.

Don't know the reporting chain that you're in, but unless its lacks RAF ROs, the quality of your writing probably matters far more than who you used to be (civvies don't have the monopoly on poor RO write-ups!).

N Joe

[SirToppamHat]

Milarity
Rightly or wrongly, this must be happening more often as posts are civilianized.

Yes, and I was surprised the other day to be told of at least 2 instances where civil servants (one of whom had never served in any of the services), held posts as 'Officer Commanding' XXXXXXXXX Flt. IMHO this is bizarre - though more of a reflection on their seniors than them personally.

As for the original Q, IMHO you ought to work it into the narrative. Space is short, but something along the lines of:

"As a former SEngO, ..."

takes 4 words and is likely to add significantly more in terms of validation than it removes in space.

STH

[Pontius Navigator]

STH, we had one such who styled herself OC Works Services Flight and always signed as such. A right royal PITA.

[Riskman]

Thread drift - apologies;

QR645 (superceded by QR640J but you may still have an old copy knocking about) made the distinction between OC Depth (military) and Senior Nominated Engineer (civ) depending on the status of the incumbent.

The idea of a civilian (including ROs) describing themselves as OC anything makes me think 'Walt'.

[Pontius Navigator]

Riskman,

ROs as OC?

You are out of date. ROs have been superceded by Civil Servant/Military Support Function although there are still a few hundred legacy ROs out there.

They come in 2 flavours one is uniformed and commissioned and very properly appointed as OC if that is their job.

Others, particularly those of a shade of green, who retain their rank come hell and high water even if their job is at a lower civil service grade than their ex-military rank.

I don't know whether Lt Col Rtd is the correct appellation but the light blue equivalent is Wg Cdr. The Wg Cdr does not use the appellation RAF Rtd. A serving wg cdr would be Wg Cdr RAF to distinguish between serving and retired. The light blue RO however would be Wg Cdr RAFR. There is, AFAIK, no equivalent Army Reserve commission although they have FTRS and would be simply Lt Col etc.

You may be surprised how big the non-regular cadre actually is.

[N Joe]

PN

Thanks for the informative and (I'm sure) factually accurate input, but I think you've missed the point.

RO in this context is "Reporting Officer" rather than "Retired Officer".

N Joe

[Riskman]

Pontius & N Joe,

Sorry, I have unintentionally muddied the waters. Pontius, you are absolutely right; perhaps I should have said Officers (retd) ie more in common with the 'green' element you mentioned.

N Joe, I did warn of thread drift however your interpretation is equally valid.

:O

[Milarity]

Threads are always more interesting when they are left to drift, and you can always kick the drift off in the last few feet.

Thank you for your replies. The consensus seems to be:

- The subject is always disadvantaged by a poorly written report.

- A civvy RO may place the subject at a disadvantage by not being as credible as a military RO, despite how well a report is written.

- A few well-chosen words to reveal that the Civvy RO is ex-mil may go some way to overcoming any lessening of the report in the eyes of the promotion board.

- This could be the one place where it is not naff to sign with your old rank (Retd).

Should you be suffering from having a civvy boss that doesn't have a clue about ACRs, I am sure that there is a report writing course available for CS who are line managers of military personnel. There seem to be courses for everything else. My Early Learning Centre is currently offering a one-day course on how to answer the telephone!

[Pontius Navigator]

Riskman/Joe, TY.

On the subject of Reporting Officers it is not just civilians that cause concern.

Exchange ROs don't know the system and often duck out. My FS had a Polish RO who thought well of him but did not have the English. He got a US Army officer to write the report. OK, he got a fire-wall 9s but that is a known feature of US ROs.

Then there are the green and dark blue ROs and indeed light blue all cross writing on CS as well as others. An RO for a CS goes on a course. I know a light blue had to go on a Jack Speak course so they could be an RO for dark blue but the boss is also dark blue.

OJAR is supposed to level the playing field. IMO all it will do is level the report; the words will be quite different.

[Riskman]

My Early Learning Centre is currently offering a one-day course on how to answer the telephone!

The people that need it won't ever do it. The military are good at phone-answering but calling industry....:mad: hell; it's like pulling teeth. How hard can it be to pick up the phone and say "Joe Bloggs, Widget team"?

[Pontius Navigator]

Riskman, agree. I once got through to a bomb manufacturer.

"Do you know the number on your website is wrong?"

"?"

"Yes, it is a local garage."

"Oh, thanks."

"Can I speak to . . . ?"

"One moment . . ."

Suffice to say no reply to emails, faxes, letters or my phone calls. Are military suppliers also bound by the FOI?

Also contacted Royal Ordnance, "I want to know . . . " still waiting.