Italian c130j refuelling EH101

[petoprobe]

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/vicky10_photos/YK6R01751.jpg


http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh71/vicky10_photos/YK6R01771.jpg


Interesting

[force_ale]

It's actually a way to top-up the leaky main gearbox in flight. :E

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

So is that one of our 22 Mk3 Merlins being used for Westlands own tests or is it one of their own? Or am I being too cynical and its actually Boscombe doing the tests for the RAF?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Whoever is not the issue..........it's barking mad and should be stopped forthwith :eek:

[billynospares]

dont think it was Boscombe. Surely westlands wouldnt do that would they !

[Phil_R]

Why is it barking mad?

Worries about a rotor blade/fuel hose intersection?

[petoprobe]

The photo's were taken off the south coast Dorset I believe.
'Italian CSAR trials apparently'

[strek]

There used to be an airstation so close to where this was taken, surely keeping it open would have been the cheaper option! :O

[rab-k]

Just don't try this at home... :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2fSjHghubc

[Gainesy]

Actually wondering why the Italians aren't trying it at home.:confused:

[vikingdriver]

Those photos are off of South Devon, the edge of the town seen is Seaton, you can recognise it from the River Mouth and both the old and new bridge crossing it

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Rab-k,

That shows quite clearly why this is barking mad :eek:

[D-IFF_ident]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=313219

[Seaking93]

I believe the Merlin is HC3 ZJ117, I guess there's no shortage of SH anymore so that Westlands can borrow it.

[waspy77]

What's the significance of the yellow blades?

[helimarshaller]

Quote - I believe the Merlin is HC3 ZJ117, I guess there's no shortage of SH anymore so that Westlands can borrow it.

This aircraft is involved in a joint MOD/AW Funded project to develop the BERP 4 Blades. The blades will eventually be fitted to the UK Merlin fleet once full certification is acheived on this airframe.

Quote - What's the significance of the yellow blades?

These are the BERP 4 blades being used for certification. They are painted yellow so that they are distinguished from the production blades.

[Tonkenna]

Shame we don't have/won't be getting any tankers to use this ability :ugh:

Tonks :hmm:

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

This aircraft is involved in a joint MOD/AW Funded project to develop the BERP 4 Blades. The blades will eventually be fitted to the UK Merlin fleet once full certification is acheived on this airframe
Sorry, I think I must be a bit slow... can you please explain to me how AARing trials with an Italian C130 speeds up the process of bringing into production the highly anticipated BERP 4 blades to the MK3?

[GreenKnight121]

Because they want to make sure the new blades don't cause any unanticipated turbulence issues with AAR?

[Kitbag]

Sorry, I think I must be a bit slow


Correct, you are :p

[ARRAKIS]

My italian is far from being perfect, but it looks like those flights are part of a bigger program.

http://ftp.aeronautica.difesa.it/SitoAM/Default.asp?idnot=20413&idsez=2&idarg=&idente=1398

EDIT:

Well, according to this Italian MoD article, the C-130J comes from Lyneham, and only the crew (or part of it) is Italian (from Pratica di Mare).

Arrakis

[N Joe]

Not being able to read the tail no. from the pics, yesterday, I would have remarked that we don't have probes on our Js (apart from during a couple of trials flights). However, today, seeing 880 on the front of the RAF News fitted with a probe, I'll shut up.

Conclusion - I've been out too long!

N Joe

PS - The RAF News isn't getting any better!

[2port]

N Joe (and others)

We might well have some with probes - but have we any with drogues?

2P

[dmanton300]

No, the RAF don't have any with drogues. Or any J's with underwing fuel tanks for that matter (In fact, apart from that Italian J, the only J i've seen with underwing tanks is a USCG one, interested to see any others). Or any J's with Italian markings either. Aircraft was deployed to Lyneham for the tests from the RSV in Italy.

[ARRAKIS]

Apoligies. My mistake.
Webpage Babelfish translation :yuk:.

The article I mentioned above is quite clear about it


"dall’aerocisterna C-130J dell'Aeronautica Militare, condotta da un test team del Reparto Sperimentale Volo (RSV) di Pratica di Mare (Roma)."

It's an Italian machine.

Arrakis

[Occasional Aviator]

If the aircraft is 117, that would be RAF01, designated to the sustainment fleet and therefore intended to be used in trials and development work, not for front-line use.

Anyone using the old, old CH-53 video to suggest that these trials are hazardous or not practical is clearly not familiar with the Merlin. The rotor mast is in the centre of the fuselage, not up front like many older types, and so the disk doesn't extend far in front of the cockpit - hence the ability to have a fixed probe, rather than an extending one required for aircraft like the CH47. Have a look at the photos again.

If we are using an RAF aircraft in an Italian trial, I'd say that was pretty good thinking. We get the trial results so that a clearance will be easier to obtain if we ever needed one in a hurry, and someone else pays - I don't see a problem.

[Senior Pilot]

The EH-101 looks remarkably like the BERP-IV trials aircraft:

http://www.agustawestland.com/dinimg/AW5xx%20per%20sito.jpg


AgustaWestland press release. (http://www.agustawestland.com/communication_det.php?id_news=342&yy=2007)

[Occasional Aviator]

Thanks SPLOT.

Nice to hear from Dickie. 198kts and 16500kg eh? That could be handy for altitudinous places that get hot...

[TheWizard]

I would have thought the Italian connection was fairly obvious-
AGUSTA Westlands?;)

[Occasional Aviator]

Thanks Wizard, for your erudite reply. One thing you can be pretty certain of is that this will not be the company doing a trial off their own bat. Either the UK MoD or the Italian government will be paying.

Just did a few sums with the info in the online press release. The increase AUM and airspeed that the BERP IV is likely to provide (along with another slightly older source) means that there's sufficient disposable payload to fit two tanks, which (if my fag-packet calculations are correct) would mean over 800NM in one hop, or 1600NM a day. Using the assumption that 5 days is the break-even between self-ferry and AT breakdown, you'd be looking at a self-ferry range to Mumbai, Central Africa or the USA, and that's without AAR.... overseas trainer anyone?

[Tallsar]

Forget not that AgustaWestland are "equal" team members in several signifcant Transatlantic 101 programmes too! Think laterally my friends:hmm:;)

[Occasional Aviator]

Yes, that all falls into place - after all, the donor aircraft is a Lockheed!

[Ivan Rogov]

As Tallsar suggested :D

http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/airforce/HH-71_CSAR-X_Team_Successfully_Demonstrates_Aerial_Refueling_Flights100 015138.php

Only 127kts for the AAR apparantly.

[ORAC]

The AgustaWestland and Lockheed Martin HH-71 Team successfully conducted aerial refuelling tests between a RAF AW101 Merlin Mk3 helicopter and an Italian Air Force C-130J tanker, further demonstrating the aircraft’s superior capabilities and low-risk approach for the U.S. Air Force’s Combat Search and Rescue (CSAR-X) requirement.

http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/articlefiles/6954-1.jpg

The successful fuel transfer occurred over the south of England on February 13, marking the first time a British helicopter demonstrated air-to-air refuelling capability. The AW101 and RAF test pilots plugged the helicopter’s refuelling probe to each of the tanker’s two wing station drogues -- the fact that the fuel transfer occurred on the first attempts makes the demonstration even more impressive. The sorties were flown at 4,000 ft altitude, with both aircraft travelling at 127 knots. All trial objectives were completed with multiple in-flight refuelling events successfully achieved up to the maximum Merlin Mk3 flying weight of 34,400lb.

http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/articlefiles/6954-2.jpg

“To support our win strategy of providing the Air Force the lowest risk offer, we completed the aerial refuelling tests prior to contract award" said Dan Spoor, Lockheed Martin’s CSAR-X vice president. “With this proven aerial refuelling capability, the aircraft has demonstrated all critical capabilities required for the CSAR mission. The aircraft exceeds the technical readiness level required by the CSAR-X RFP.” All Merlin Mk3 helicopters have air refuelling capability and this trial is the latest step in providing an Operational Release for in-service Merlin Mk3 helicopters fitted with the advanced design BERP III and BERP IV rotor blades.

"The robust NDI air refuelling technology employed on the HH-71 combined with its excellent cockpit visibility, significant probe to blade clearance, precise handling qualities and high power margins result in the most capable, low risk aerial refuelling helicopter for the CSAR-X mission,” said Stephen C. Moss, chief executive officer of AgustaWestland North America. “The fact that the sorties were flown with both the BERP III and the BERP IV advanced rotor systems, makes the successful trials all the more significant.” The tests were performed through the collaboration of the HH-71 Team, Britain’s Ministry of Defence, the Aircraft Test & Evaluation Centre (QinetiQ Boscombe Down), the Italian Air Force, the Department of Experimental Flight Pratica di Mare (Rome), and the NATO Maintenance and Supply Agency.

[airborne_artist]

with both aircraft travelling at 127 knots

Now that's a surprise :E

[Mr-AEO]

What's the flow rate for these AARs? How long would a Merlin need to sit in Station receiving fuel for a typical load? Could you sit 2 aircraft behind the tanker and both get fuelled at the same time?

[Gainesy]

The USMC AAR two CH-53s simultaneously from a Herc and I think that
53s have a larger diameter rotor disc.

[busdriver02]

Yes, you can refuel both sides simultaneously. However, you can't have both aircraft in pre-contact position at the same time.

[Mr-AEO]

Thanks for replies. Although CSAR tactics (or whatever the proper name is these days) are probably classified, I was wondering if the aircraft would be acting as a singleton or in pairs, hence the need to tandem refuel (alternative being one after the other aka Esso Forecourt).

Merlin self deployability is already pretty impressive; if you can tank along the way then presumably you would no longer need to keep putting down? (Assuming that seats are comfy, there is a pie oven onboard and a pee tube!:})

[TescoValue]

(Assuming that seats are comfy, there is a pie oven onboard and a pee tube!:})

No to all three Mr-AEO

[0497]

Helicopter refueling from the cockpit (CH53)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GiIH1NHPKA