IOT for "mature" VR entrants - what's involved?

[hugh flung_dung]

Has anyone here any knowledge of the abbreviated IOT that "mature" (or aged :O) entrants to the RAFVR (not for the ATC) are put through? I'm told that it's 4 months minimum but can't find any detail; it would be useful to know what's involved.

HFD

(Edited to correct typo in title)

[teeteringhead]

I think it's the extended SERE course (or whatever it's called now) of about 12 weeks ??

Last time I was at Deadloss Mess there were some Metmen (and ladies) on the course - and I think they are VR (not T) for their deployable bit......

[Regie Mental]

Thought the RAFVR disbanded some years ago?

The RAuxAF IOT (but called ROIT instead of RIOT) is I believe a fortnight at Cranwell after six months or so of training with your own unit (plus BRC at Halton if you're a direct entrant).

[The Adjutant]

If he thinks it's still the RAFVR he's failed IOT already.

Regie mental has it more or less right, but the work at sqn level is 4 months worth of distance learning (as I believe correspondance courses are called these days) Each month has a compulsory study weekend at Cranwell, and towards the end of the course is a compulsory 15 day residential phase at Cranwell during which the mature reservists mix in with the young regulars and try to keep up while they all rush around at some camp or other. Therefore my suggestion is that those who wish to try this route get themselves physically fit as this is no "attendance course" its hard work. - as it should be.

[D-IFF_ident]

Getting measured for a uniform and then a dining-in night before graduation isn't it? :}

[c-bert]

Er, I think Mobile Met (at least) are all still VR...

[hugh flung_dung]

Maybe I should have said RAFR (FTRS) rather than RAFVR.
I've been led to believe that IOT would be a full-time course with a minimum duration of 4 months, but this seems surprisingly long for someone with relatively extensive professional experience and who will not see 50 again.

I'm interested to find out what topics are covered on the course and, in particular, what physical standards are expected.

HFD

[teeteringhead]

Thanks c-bert, I thought they were .....

..... but it was very late ....

....and in the bar ....

....and she was "easy on the eye"..:E

[I_stood_in_the_door]

HFD

SERE course is now 10 weeks long. With an extra week for some on the end for some.

Takes that long to get your No 5 uniform from the tailors at Cranditz.....

ISITD

LFOGOOTFW:}

[metman_06]

I can confirm met are RAFR (not RAFVR or RAuxAF or any other combination)

[Pontius Navigator]

Hugh,

In the words of my source, the course is the FULL 7 month course squeezed into 4 months. It includes all the pine pool work but may omit the weapons handling.

The problem, as RAFR FTRS, is simply that you will be a full-blown RAF officer. The VR(T) and RAuxAF are entirely different animals and wear a distinguishing badge. You, as RAFR OTOH will have full powers of command and control commensurate with your rank and in th eorder promulgated in the Air Force List albeit you rate junior to any regular with the same rank.

You will have to write proper defence writing like wot i did.:)

As for the wrong side of 50, remember you may serve to 60 and the commission is pensionable. You will also be fully qualified to do secondary duties and station duty officer.

[c-bert]

...RAuxAF are entirely different animals and wear a distinguishing badge.

Wrong. Only on their (our) number 1s. In any other uniform RAuxAF are indistinguishable from the regulars. Apart from the slight air of incompetence....:E

[Kitbag]

Wrong. Only on their (our) number 1s. In any other uniform RAuxAF are indistinguishable from the regulars. Apart from the slight air of incompetence....:E

Not so very different then? :p

[Regie Mental]

C-bert

'Air of incompetence'?

The surgeons, doctors and nurses of the aeromed teams and deployable hospital are anything but.

C**k

[Maple 01]

I think he meant incontinence.....as they tend to be a bit older ;)

[c-bert]

On the whole the RAuxAF get nowhere near the same level and depth of training as their regular counterparts. The Aeromed guys being the notable exception as they are already trained in their role in civvy street.

I like to think you wouldn't call me a cock to my face. Kindly don't do it via the internet. It ain't nice. :ok:

[Regie Mental]

You alleged that the RAuxAF are incompetent despite their sterling service not only in aeromed but across the board. We also sufferred a fatality last year.

Your comment is therefore both innaccurate and deeply insulting.

And trust me, I would call you it to your face.

[c-bert]

A rude and ignorant Rock. Thank goodness they aren't all like you eh?

And trust me, I would call you it to your face.

Somehow I'm not surprised.

[Regie Mental]

Err, not a Rock, but nice try to deflect from your original comment which, I take it, you wish to stand by? If so, take it the same applies in your view to TA and RNR?

[talk_shy_tall_knight]

Regie

Easy tiger. Ruddy 'ell have you had a dinner time sesh. Read his posts without your chest all puffed out and you'll see he was being a bit self defecation.

Cock.

[c-bert]

Err, not a Rock,

That’s a relief. I’ve always had quite a lot of respect for the Regiment.

My first comment was intended as light hearted with an element of truth behind it, so yes, I still stand by it. As for the TA and RNR, I’m afraid I have never served in either of them and don’t feel qualified to comment.

[Ops and Mops]

c-bert

I am very surprised at your comments considering you, not so long ago, aspired to join the RAuxAF. Have you become disillusioned, or have you become a regular and "disowned" your previous service? :=

PN

The RAuxAF are no longer different animals since the Total Force Concept has actually been proven to work since GW2. The only difference between the RAuxAF and the regulars now (apart from the inevitable last few from the "old days" of cucumber sandwiches and Pimms), is that Oggies do their military job in their spare time. During annual training, and even during regular detachments to their war roles at Parent Unit, Oggie officers can be pinged for OO/SDO if needed and certainly get secondary duties!! They also carry full powers of subordinate command in accordance with their rank, take precedence below RAF but interestingly are senior to RAFR being a Royal Service in their own right! RAuxAF Officers also appear alongside Regular Officers in the Air Force List whether FTRS or Part time, where as officers of the RAFR do not.

There are RAuxAF Officers who serve on FTRS commitments however having completed ROIT, they are not required to undertake SERE. Gp Capt OACTU's brief is now to supply reservist Officers via ROIT/SERE to the same standard as regulars. In fact both ROIT and SERE candidates have to complete Ex DECISIVE EDGE alongside regular cadets before they can graduate. Reservist cadets can and do fail, get re-coursed and get chopped.

Depending on their post, some RAFR do ROIT and others do SERE (such as MMU). The only reason RAuxAF do not do SERE is because most officers are unable to take 4 months off work without losing their jobs. Be under no illusion that although ROIT is mainly distance learning, if any cadet does not reach the required standard at any of the training weekends they are RTU'd and recoursed once. Any further failure results in being suspended from training.

Gone are the days of "jolly hockey sticks", the knife fork and spoon course and bimbiling 50 year old Pilot Officers in the RAuxAF. Apart from a few relics (which is also true of the Regulars and the RAFR), the RAuxAF is a fighting force augmenting and fighting alongside the RAF at home and in theatre. The RAuxAF no longer just supports the front line, it is an integral part of it!

[c-bert]

Hello again!

Neither of the above I'm afraid. I recently left (due to increasing work commitments and a whinging fiancee) after 2 years or so. Whilst I agree that the RAuxAF is now, "an integral part of the front line", I don't agree that we are trained to the same degree as the regulars we are supposed to replace in theatre.
I have no doubt that the guys are doing a sterling job and indeed getting the job done, however, that is not the same as being adequatly experienced and prepared. I know from personal experience that when I was working with regulars I was nowhere near as well trained as they were. Thoroughly enjoyed it all the same though. :ok:

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the system, only that 'doing the job' for 2 weeks a year is not the same as doing it 365 days a year.

[Ops and Mops]

c-bert

Fair points, and I guess a lot comes down to individual units and perceptions. I am sorry to hear that you had to leave, although I know the "whinging other half" story well!

Cheers,
O&M :ok:

[XV208 SNOOPY]

As Ops and Mops rightly points out, the training for Reservists has under gone a step change in the last 2 years or so.

AP3392 Vol 7 has been rewritten. OASC will determin what IOT course a potential officer for the reserves will do, and in theory allows a reservist to do the full IOT if circumstances allow. RAuxAF have have passed the new SERE in the past 18 months, as their employment allowed them the time to do it.

The entry standard is the same, pass OASC, and the qualifying standard is the same, pass Ex DE. The route to get there will however be different. (IOT, SERE or ROIT.)

The new ROIT course has changed out of all recognition in the past year, with OACTU taking on full ownership. As others have pointed out, the full ROIT is 3 stages.

Stage 1, basic recruit training (Airman and potential officers.) 2 or 3 training weekends, plus study at normal Sqn training events. This is followed by 2 weeks at the School of Recruit Training at Halton. The first event is an exam on the first night testing what has been taught on the Sqns. Fail, RTU.

If you pass the Halton phase you will have the basic skills and knowledge to be able to operate as an junior airman ready to go on to trade and specialist training some of which will be along side the regulars.

ROIT phase 2 is the distance learning. The Halton output standard is the ROIT phase 2 input standard. This phase is distance learning on the Sqn under a mentor. OACTU now runs sessions during the first ROIT training weekend to train the mentors! ROIT phase 2 then comprises 4 mandatory training weekends at Cranwell, with training objectives to be carried out between each weekend. Subjects like Defence Writing and Air Power are carried out by distance learning via the Defence Learning Portal. Leadership is taught during the weekends to include all of the leadership phases that used to be carried out on the old 2 week phase. Each stage is assessed, and failure to pass will result in back course.

ROIT phase 3 is the final 2 week phase at Cranwell, where the ROIT cadets join with the SERE course and Term 2 IOT for Ex DE. They do the same leads, and are assessed to the same standard. Mixing Regular, Specialists and Reservists is a deliberate policy designed to make them all aware of each other at an early stage, and more importantly, show they are all trained to and tested to the same standards.

ROIT is in effect the SERE course delivered in around 12 months by diferent means, to get cadets to the same standard. It is understood that your average reservist can only get 2 weeks off a year, so it is normal to complete phase 1 in one leave year, and complete 2 and 3 in the next.

As the size of the regular armed forces is slashed to dangerous levels, Reservists are having to be used more and more to plug the gaps and in some cases provide specialist expertese no longer available in the regulars. MoD has (belatedly) realised that they have to be selected and trained to very high standards, as their regular counterparts can not carry dead weight, especially OOA.

As DACOS Reserves has stated many times, at the point of delivery, a person walking into a Sqn Ops room, or a RAF Rgt Field Sqn should not be able to tell who is a regular, and who is a reservist.

There will however be diferences. As a reservists, when compared to their regular counter part, there are skills and knowledge that are essential, desirable and not really needed. All reserve airman and offices will have the essentials. Some may have the desirables, but if they need a desirable or not normally required skill to be deployed, that skills gap needs to known in advance and be filled during his or her pre deployment training.

I am the first to admit, there are fantasitc, average and useless people on both sides. Hopefully better training and understanding of what reservists can bring to the party will over time reduce the useless, and increase the fantastic.

[Wader2]

Question.

Can a civilian get commisioned as RAF FTRS?

If yes, what route and how long?

[McDuff]

Yes, they can. But they have to do the whole of the selection (OASC) and training (IOT etc ...) and they start at the bottom rank, whatever that is these days.

That's one of the problems of recruiting QFIs, I understand: that the RAF cannot pay them enough to attract them. And the pot of ex-military pilots is small and dwindling. I know one ex sqn ldr QFI whose pension is abated according to his basic pay many years ago (not allowed to earn more in basic pay than previously if you rejoin the Service).

McD

[Squirrel 41]

H-F-D

XV208 is spot on. It may vary a bit depending on which unit you're applying to, but the overall picture is now (fortunately) pretty similar. This drives other problems, of course - notably time to the LCR/CR - but the product is getting much better. :D

Which also forces the rest of us to take a good long hard look and make sure we're up to snuff - also an excellent thing! :)

If I can help, pls PM me.

S41

[doubledolphins]

Join the RNR, the uniform is much nicer (more like my airline one) and we don't have any reserve badges or marks on any thing now. Training is in unit and two weeks at BRNC.

Sorry I'll get back in my box.