Systolic Heart Murmur Question.

[HeathrowAirport]

Hello guys,

Is there anyone that can tell me can this stop me from being a pilot?

Systolic Heart Mumur—heard when the heart is squeezing and pumping blood out of the heart.


I had this when i was younger and had ECG, Blood tests, you name it but this was the problem and said it's normal after they thought i had a hole in the heart.

2-3 year's ago when i had a Chest Infection it appeared but there was nothing of it as it was Normal.

It first happend when i was pretty young, it last happened when i was 10-11.

What does this affect?


Regards,

Robbie

[Shunter]

Murmurs are very common. I had one when I was a kid.

They can indicate more serious conditions like hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, but from the sounds of it you're well on top of your condition and if you had that I'm sure your GP would have told you about it by now.

These are the Class 1 requirements:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_Med_InitialJARClass1%5B2188%5D.pdf

If it's not listed, it can't be used to disqualify you. That's the theory anyway.

[FAAjon]

I have a benign heart murmur, but I got clear by the RAF and I am now fit to fly. As long as its benign eg a flow murmur you will be fine.

[HeathrowAirport]

Hello guys,

I play football Saturday's and do PE once a week so i would have thought without no problems of playing at the top of my game, but then there is silent killers. But when it appeared last time when i got a Heart Murmur, I **** myself as then my GP/Doctor sent a letter to some people at Kings College Hospital and said all was fine.It's scary to know but when they recently ask me what i do and if i have problems, Shortness of Breathe or take along time to recover, then the obvious is NO to both.

Systolic: The blood pressure when the heart (http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=3668) is contracting. It is specifically the maximum arterial pressure during contraction (http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=2834) of the left ventricle (http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5984) of the heart. The time at which ventricular contraction occurs is called systole.
In a blood pressure reading, the systolic pressure is typically the first number recorded. For example, with a blood pressure of 120/80 ("120 over 80"), the systolic pressure is 120. By "120" is meant 120 mm Hg (millimeters of mercury).
A systolic murmur (http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4463) is a heart murmur (http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=3673) heard during systole, the time the heart contracts, between the normal first and second heart sounds.
"Systolic" comes from the Greek systole meaning "a drawing together or a contraction." The term has been in use since the 16th century to denote the contraction of the heart muscle.


But when i saw this; It can show disorders of the heart rhythm or of the
I thought oh please, don't lie!

Also what's this mean?

Would i need this?

Any changes, such as for example, a heart murmur, may need further tests which usually cannot be done at Gatwick and will have to be arranged elsewhere.What;s the recommended for glasses too?

I printed a CAA Eye Examination and wanted to visit D&H to get my eye's tested and see what they think compared to the sheet and what the CAA recomends. I have a Lazy Eye (Left) Long Sighted (both) both Improved under the eye patch (Younger) and now glasses.

Also would i need this?


Chest X-ray – this investigation is no longer required for an initial UK JAR Class 1, but may be requested if you have any heart or lung problems.Kindest Regards,

Robbie

[tp555]

I had a heart murmur detected on initial CAA Class 1 medical, had to have an echocardiagram (like an ultrasound exam) to determine if it was benign or not. It was; and indeed is in 95% of cases. Has never been subsequently detected in class 1 renewals and aparently it comes and goes with age.

Bottom line, if it's benign you're fine ;)

[nnhy]

I have atrial septal defect(9mm) and was detected through an airforce medical.
I have seek AME to clarify if i can still obtain an unrestricted class 1.
I am holding onto a CASA class 1. However, i would like to know, will it bar me from getting hold of a UKCAA class 1. Cause i contacted UKCAA for advise thru the phone, they ask me to send in the report. this leads me to think that it may be a barring factor. Any advise would be swell.

Many Thanks
nn

[chief]

I was diagnosed with Mitral Valve Prolapse (heart murmur) when I was 23. This was diagnosed during my initial class one medical. I was shocked and very concerned as I never thought anything was wrong. Consequently, I was sent to St Thomas's hospital in london to have an ECG and a Holter device fitted for 24 hours. It was confirmed that I had a heart murmur but at the lowest grade. It is always picked up in every medical i have but I have been told its nothing to worry about and just have to monitor it every 2 years.

I am employed as a commercial pilot and trust me, I am probably one of the most healthiest guys in the company!!

I am sure all the stress in becoming a pilot (10 years of it) had its part in causing a heart murmur!!

Anyway, i was told its nothing to worry about. The only thing I do worry about is the extra expense I have to pay for Life insurance and not being accepted for Critical Illness cover as the insurance companies think this is a risk!! Although the CAA don't.

[MelbPilot85]

Perhaps I skimmed over it a little quickly, but has anything been detected recently? I had a murmur detected by a doctor during my first class 1 renewal, by which time I was significantly into my flying course and significantly in debt. As with one of the earlier posters, I had an echocardiogram, an extra ECG and a coupe of other tests, all of which showed me to be in good health.

It hasn't been detected in any subsequent medicals, though for a few years after the detection I carried the reports clearing me of any problems to subsequent examinations, as I had to have another intial for a foreign license.

Anyway, if it hasn't reared its head recently or you have been cleared previously I would guess you will be ok, that was my experience at least. Good luck!

[davelongdon]

Well heres my story....

I went to the doctors with a chest infestion when I was 4, and a heart murmur was picked up and I was referred onto a specialist.

I got written off in my teens as being nothing, so I thought that was the end of it.

I passed my PPL skills test last week, on my class 2 in 2005 my murmur wasnt picked up. Today I went for my class 1 before i commenced my ATPL training and an "interference" was picked up i.e. a murmur so they want me to see my local caa cardiologist for an echocardiogram which is luckily my local AME.

Now I am sh**ting as this is my whole life plan. Everything else was fine...what do I do....im really worrying.

Plus also if they write me off because of my heart, will this mean the class 2 will be void too.

[Horatio Leafblower]

G'day Dave

I had a murmur as a kid which was pretty benign, but for related reasons I ended up getting a new aorta in 2004.

I was grounded for 12 weeks post-op, saw the Docs, got the reports and went back to work :ok:

I retain a Class 1 medical and a ATPL and I will do so until (aged about 50 I hope) eventually my valve folds up and gets replaced.

Once that happens, I will probably have a limitation on my Class 1:
"May only fly as or with a co-pilot".

Murmurs can be caused by a number of things - it is important that you know what causes yours so you can manage it (if required)

Good luck :ok:

[davelongdon]

Thank you for the reply.

Problem is that this is my initial Class 1 I am still trying to get so its quite worrying, my class 2 is still valid for a year. My echocardiogram is on November 7th so its all on that.

Number 1.....my lifeplan since forever has to be an airline pilot.

Number 2......I dont really want my class 2 ripped up either.

Jut angers me I got signed off with the all clear when I was younger.

Regards

David

[homonculus]

A murmur is an abnormal sound heard in the heart or major vessels. There are many different causes. Murmurs may occur at birth when they may be caused by major anatomical abnormalities (dont worry guys, you would know if you had this!) or by persistance of the foetal circulation.

Other murmurs can start in later life and usually signify a leaking or narrowed heart valve.

BUT they dont come and go - the only exception is that some murmurs are louder on exercise etc but normally it is simply one doctor hears it and another doesnt

Because these are all anatomical problems the test is an ultrasound which produces a picture of the problem - simple as that

Many murmurs are 'benign' which means they do not signify significant limitations of the pumping action of the heart. Apart from needing antibiotics with operations you will live to die of other causes the same as the rest of us.

So have an ultrasound, get a diagnosis, and then your AME can decide whether you can fly or not.

[Jet A1]

Been flying within an airline for 12 years and a murmur was picked up last year.

Was told it would be fine and most probably benign.

Headed off for tests and they found I had a very leaky aortic valve. Sent all the stuff off from the tests to the CAA and have had a Multi Crew Limitation applied to the class one.

It will require surgery to replace the valve at some stage but the CAA have been brilliant and seem to want to mange the condition keep me flying rather than the other way around and have found all their 'experts' in Belgrano very practical.

[DX Wombat]

davelongdon!Jut angers me I got signed off with the all clear when I was younger.
What an absolutely atrocious attitude. The vast majority of people would be delighted to be given the all clear. If the doctors who were dealing with you considered that you were clear at the time why would they not tell you that? Do you think they should have known that you wanted to be a pilot? Not that that would have made the slightest difference to their diagnosis, why should it? Medical History is exactly that - HISTORY. Whether or not it will affect your ability to gain a Commercial Licence may depend on your history but your history is precisely that and cannot be altered. The fact remains that you had / have a cardiac murmur. If the Cardiac Consultant decided it was harmless then there is a good chance that the CAA will too. Did you bother to declare it at your PPL Medical? Or is that part of the problem? Has it crossed your mind that this might be a new problem totally unrelated to the original one - apart from the fact that it involves your heart?
In spite of your rather worrying, childish attitude and wish to blame others for your problem, I wish you well and hope all turns out well for you but please try to adopt a more mature, adult attitude to problems before you start flying commercially.

[PlaneWhisperer]

I thought I'd post regarding this, I went in for a heart murmur check recently for the class 1 medical here in Australia, I'm only 24 and had not seen the murmur on my first medical 2 years ago, and was a little concerned but found out it was nothing to worry about and I have my class 1 coming back soon, cost a fortune though to get the echocardiogram done, and fortunately didn't have to do any other tests such as the 24hr monitor which helped a bit, seems that these things come up fairly often with healthy people and they aren't much concern

[pulse1]

I have a letter from my doctor which says: "An echo has shown trivial aortic regurgitation and this should have no functional implications". My AME never mentioned it even if he noticed it.

The only people who worry about it are travel insurers. I hate them.

[Nick Lee]

Hi Robbie
Heart murmurs are caused by turbulent blood flow through the valves of the heart. The first thing to do is to find out whether the turbulence is caused by a damaged heart valve and cardiologists do this with an echocardiogram which is a heart ultrasound scan. If there is no evidence of valve damage, then the murmur can be considered benign, and unrestricted certification is possible. If there is minor damage to a valve, then medical certification may still be possible if the heart is functioning normally, although periodic reviews may be necessary. However, anything more than minor damage will preclude certification.

[Loose rivets]

Couple of little factoids.

Wasn't it Leonardo da Vinci that worked out the eddies behind the valve helped them close? If the appropriate turbulence is disrupted, the assistance to the valve's closure presumably diminishes.

Also, there is a correlation between inter-chamber leaking and classical migraine. Migraine is bad news for pilots, though some people have claimed a complete cure after heart surgery.