type rating

[heinzbeanz]

Sorry maybe a daft question but im little new hear and cant find a defined answer. When tyre rating is referred too I believe it means what type of whirly bird you are trained to fly. i.e. type rating for R22 or R44 would allow you fly those aircraft only. If that is the case and your a qualified PPL/CPL then how many hours building do you have to do to get rated on a particular aircraft. :confused:

thanks in advance
HB

[Martin Barclay]

I am sure that some of the experts on the forum will correct me if I am wrong but my nderstanding is that once you have your licence PPl/CPL to add a new type you must complete 5 hours of training on type followed by a flight test. To maintain the type on your licence you then need a minimum of 2 hours on that type during the year and you do an annual LPC or licence Proficiency Check. I beleive that the time taken for the LPC can be included in the 2 hours.
Gets expensive if you have a lot of types on your licence!

[Whirlygig]

That's about the size of it except for a group of single engine piston helicopters which, alhough they require separate type ratings, an LPC on one type of SEP will count for all the other SEPs you may have. However, the LPCs must be cycled round so that each type is covered eventually,

A multi-engine type rating is 8 hours and there is also an Instrument Type Rating.

Cheers

Whirls

[heinzbeanz]

Thanks, as I thought. all very complicated but necessary I guess.:ugh: I would think that would then limit you to the type of jobs you can take on then. How is that overcome? Can you borrow a prospective employers aircraft for an hour or two just so you can get type rated? :}

[Helinut]

To be able to do a particular flying job, in very general terms, you need 2 things:

- to be able to fly the type of helicopter that the operator uses [aircraft type competency]; and

- to be able to fly the type of task that the operator carries out [confusingly called line competency]

For the first you need a type rating which you get after doing a type conversion course and passing a flight test. You also need to be current and prove your continued currency and proficiency at intervals.

The latter can be a bit more difficult. And this is what lots of people without aviation experience struggle to understand. Helicopters fly doing a whole host of different activities. These different activities require quite different skills and knowledge. So because you can do one activity, does not mean you can do the other, even if it involves flying the same helicopter type.

The training to carry out a particular operation is called line training. This comes from "flying on the line" (i.e. during normal operations). However the total package necessary to achieve line competency takes a bit more than just a few hours practice in the aircraft. Or at least it can do for some tasks.

Generally the easiest way for an operator to get suitable people is to poach them from another operator. The second best way is to find someone who has similar skills and experience to those needed for the particular line activity.

If a pilot fits the line competency target, but does not have the type rating, then it is RELATIVELY starighforward for him to get the type rating (not necessarily cheap).

Who pays for a pilot's type rating is a matter for straightforward contractual negotiation. If the operator pays for it, then to stop another operator poaching the pilot, they will often try to bond that pilot and prevent him from leaving for another employer without paying back at least some of the cost of the type rating.

Does that help at all?

[longtime lurker]

Unless its changed, there was a HeliTrainingcom (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/1_2005_H.pdf) in 2005:

Initial Single Engine Type Rating (Turbine<3175kg or Piston) is 5 hrs (all excluding test)
Any subsequent Single Engine Type Ratings falling into the above categories are 3 hrs

Initial Single Engine Turbine>3175kg OR Multi Engine Turbine is 8 hrs
Subsequent Multi Engine Type Ratings are 5 hrs

Initial Multi Pilot ratings 10 hrs
Subsequent Multi Pilot ratings 5 hrs

Additional requirements for differences training, and for adding instrument privileges.

I'm sure LASORS will show if it has changed again. Hope that helps

[Jeff Hall]

That's about the size of it except for a group of single engine piston helicopters which, alhough they require separate type ratings, an LPC on one type of SEP will count for all the other SEPs you may have. However, the LPCs must be cycled round so that each type is covered eventually,

A multi-engine type rating is 8 hours and there is also an Instrument Type Rating.

Cheers

Whirls


Which Single Engine Piston heli's are counted as one for the purposes of an LPC then?
I was under the impression that each and every heli was a different type rating and as such required its own LPC (In the UK at least).

Not a problem for me yet, but when I qualify on the R44 it might make the R22/R44 switch/currency easier!

Jeff Hall
PPL(H) in training @ Multiflight / LBA

[Whirlygig]

There's a list of 'em somewhere! i.e. R22, S300, Enstrom, B47 etc. You have to do a type rating for each but the LPC can be done on the R22 in year 1, the S300 in year 2 etc back to R22 in year 5. Off the top of my head, I have a feeling the R44 may not come into this category but I'm not sure (as I'm not rated for it!)

Here we are from F8.4 LASORS which give the ref for JAR-FCL - Sorry I was wrong about the R22!


F8.4
RE-VALIDATION OF HELICOPTER
TYPE RATINGS
Revalidation of a helicopter type rating requires a
proficiency check in the relevant type of helicopter
within the 3 months immediately preceding the expiry
date of the rating, and at least 2 hours (including the
proficiency check) as pilot of the relevant helicopter
within the validity period of the rating.
For single-engine piston helicopters

as listed below
(Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 2.245(b)(3) refers), an
applicant shall complete at least the proficiency check
in accordance with JAR-FCL 2.245(b)(1) on one of the
applicable types held provided that the applicant has
fulfilled at least 2 hours pilot-in-command flight time on
the other type(s) during the validity period which that
revalidation proficiency check shall carry across. The
type ratings for this purpose are:-
Bell 47, Brantley B2, Hughes 269, Enstrom ENF2

Cheers

Whirls

[Camp Freddie]

to add to this the R22 and R44 are excluded from the group and unfortunately from each other.

so if you have R22 and R44 you have to do 2 LPC's, how very dull isnt it

regards

CF

[Pandalet]

I believe that if you have several (single light) turbine ratings, and at least 15 hours on each, assuming you meet the currency requirements (4 hours per year?), you can do one LPC to cover all the turbines. You have to alternate through the types each year, so if you were rated on the Gazelle, Jetranger, and Squirrel (?), and have 15 hours on each, and are current, you could do an LPC on the Gazelle this year, on a 206 next year, and the Squirrel year after.

I may be remembering this wrong - I'm not turbine rated (yet), so it's not terribly relevant to me.

[heinzbeanz]

very helpful..................and confusing:}. Thanks for all your help everyone.

[nigelh]

Pandalet . you are right that you now only have to do one of the light turbines to cover all the ones that you have had an initial rating on subject to having done a handful ( 5?) hrs in previous 12 months. I have just renewed my 206 rating which now covers me for the year on the AS350 , MD 500 and gazelle. Having said that if you only fly privately then fly on faa licence and you dont need to bother with any ratings at all . ( i think including night rating as its all incl ):ok:

[rudestuff]

Nigel forgot to mention - you will have to eat a lot of cornflakes though, and save up the tokens.
That's what I did...