Purchase advice - Lear 40XR / 45XR

[VaudBrit]

We're looking for a robust mid-size aircraft to be based in west Africa and to fly around the region with the odd trip to Europe (I know it will need a fuel stop en route)

Several clients have recommended the Lear 45, saying they get all-in costs of less than $2K / hour on the basis of 500 hours pa.

Bombardier themselves have some used stock - a 40XR and a 45XR. Any views on differences between them? The acqusition price and running costs are v similar.

Any other informed comments on the virtues or issues orn runnning this type of a/c in emerging market conditions? Any other a/c we should be looking at?

Thanks in advance for any advice provided!

[Chippie Chappie]

Hmmm, let's see

Lear 40 compared to 45.

No APU (that'd be nice in West Africa :eek:)
Less Range
Less Passangers
Same or less useful load

Personally, I think less sellable in the future

A used Hawker 800 might suit you better. More rugged, better range, generally less tech problems.

Good luck,

Chips

[VaudBrit]

As a passenger I prefer the 45 to the 800

But is the Hawker generally considered to be more reliable?

The owners that I've spoken to about the Lear swear by the Smartparts program - is that a big advantage?

[THROTTLE RETARD]

In the flight dept. I fly for we utilise both the 40XR and the 45XR. If I had to chose between the 2 I would pick the 45.
More range with extra 600lbs or so of fuel.
2 extra seats.
APU an option.
Mmo of .81 at altitude and not .80.
The determining factor may be price but if this is not an overriding factor go for the 45. However be aware that the early serial numbers, those below 100 tend to be more problematic maintenance wise. The later the serial number generally the better the build.
We really like our 45s and after some early teething troubles they have become very reliable with each aircraft doing close to 1000 hours per annum.
Also check W&B on both models as the 40 when topped with crew only may have an issue.

[Request FL510]

Also having flown the 45 (in both standard and XR guise) and currently flying the 40, I would also recommend the 45XR. Furthermore, I believe that the APU is NOT an option in Africa, its an essential.

Feel free to PM me if you need any additional info...

[Request FL510]

Check your PM's

[jr of dallas]

Buy a Falcon 50 (good deals on the market now) !

[blablablafly]

Falcon 50 is great but a large cabin.. I also vote for the 800 or prefereably a 800XP. Main thing to consider: Bombardier support is cr@p and has been for years... :sad:

[Mike Echo]

We operate a 40XR but would have to agree it's not an aircraft for Africa-range and lack of APU etc. The 45XR would be a much better bet and the idea of a Hawker 800 for ruggedness is hard to beat. Our Bombardier Tech Reps have been superb but spares have been a problem.

Mike Echo

[jr of dallas]

was seating on the Tarmac in Abuja with a Falcon 50, next to us were some guys with a Lear 45...they couldn't use their APU (some SB issues with a valve or something for the whole fleet) they were (and the pax) crying....I was chatting with some maintenance guys in Libreville about the 800 : it's a mess...
Best compromise for Africa, when it's hot ,when it's high if you have to take off and land short (even land on non-paved rwy)is definitely the "old" Falcon 50 (if you are seriously looking after reliabilty, Pax comfort and Perf)

[Chippie Chappie]

Don't work for Dassault there in LBG do you jr of dallas? :suspect:

:} Seriously though. LR45s had a problem with their APUs but that has been resolved. HS125 can be difficult to work on but you need a good engineer no matter which aircraft you get. HS125, you replace a valve/pipe. 45 it's generally replace a "magic box".

Can't comment on the DA50.

Good luck,

Chips

[jr of dallas]

Not yet working for Dassault my dear Chippie Chappie, I have seen the layout of the different boxes inside the HS...wow it's everywhere...we had to replace the radar box in Gabon and got some engineer usually working on the 125-800...and they were really impressed by the way it's well thought and easy to replace in the 50 (I am not getting any money from Dassault I promise..),just open the nose and you'll see...I guess it has to do with the original military certification in the 70's..

Good luck with the Quest !
JR

[JoeCo]

If we are comparing Hawkers to Lears, wouldnt the fair comparison be the Lear 60 and not the 40/45 series??

Pros and Cons to any and every plane however with the 60 you would def get better performance and range then you would get on the 40/45.

[thunderjet01]

Hi chaps, first post here, what are your thoughts on the Learjet 55, company I'm with is looking to buy one to use in europe/middle east with me as F/O.

[African Drunk]

The other problem with Lear 45 is type ratings. Flight Safety were quoting 2009 and CAE late 2008. We are replacing our 45 for another Hawker, good move in my view.

[VaudBrit]

Seems that the Hawker gets better reviews than the Lear then....

[robash]

45 all day long for me, without question.

IMHO

[roljoe]

Hi,

also flying the lear 45 for 8 years,

as mentioned...forget the initial serial #, with the latest no prob...and

excellent perfos..

whathever weather conditions could be...

the only area where serious progress could be done (I should say "must")

concerns the equipment on board like galley, folded table..etc..they use

to be older than the rest of the a/c.

rgds

[Jetset41]

Hi there,
haven't heard any-one mention that the Old Hawker is labour intensive on it's majors and I mean intensive, and these checks are always just round the corner waiting to send your accountant into orbit.
We have both Lear 40/45 and 125 and I hate almost with a passion stripping the old Hawker down for a major and so will your wallet.

True the Lear has issues but what aircraft hasn't, spares we can get parts from US to UK in 24hrs if required, but generally 2/3 days, no different for Rapid for Hawker spares, just that with Smartparts you have some assistance with costings, nothing like that for the 125.

Then again Hawkers have been shot at with missiles and still landed and rebuilt, don't think I could say that about the Lears

The choice is yours.

Regards,
jetse41

[pascualito]

Sure, the Lears fly to high and to fast for the missiles....:}