Orlando security check on arrival

[heidelberg]

For the second time in 3 years, last Thu 7th Feb, I and nearly 300 other pax suffered the extraordinary full 'departure type' security check on arrival at Orlando after a 9h20m flight from Dublin with EI.
There was only one security gate. MCO is the only US airport I've experienced this type of security check on arrival. Can anyone explain why this is so at MCO? God help those at the back of the queue - it must have taken them up to 2 hours to get through. Also, there were only 2 immigration booths open plus one for US citizens.
Flying into MCO on international flights is not a welcoming experience! Frankly I may give up the direct EI flight in the future and use PHL(US Airways) or EWR (Continental) as the arrival point iinto the US.
Would appreciate if anyone can throw any light on the arrival security issue at MCO?

edit for a typo

[qwertyplop]

I don't understand this notion of being welcomed on arrival by the powers that be in the country one has travelled to.

Border Security officials in the pay of the government should not be dispensing good will and happinss to all who arrive - they are there to ensure that the arriving pax are going to comply with the rules - no more no less.

Customer service does not come into it - customer service implies one has a choice.

One does not.

Therefore - all I ask is that I am treated with respect and nothing more.

[scrunchthecat]

Don't fly into PHL with USAir!
CO to EWR is a much better option!

--Philly resident

[heidelberg]

I have used US Airways twice from DUB to MCO via PHL during the last 15 months and found the experience very satisfactory. The last time I used US Air was outbound to MCO on Dec 18 and returning to DUB on 8 Jan and absolutely no hassle either way. All flights via PHL.

I still cannot fathom why the necessity of 'full monty' security on arrival at MCO after a long international flight over 9 hour duration. It's a reflection on security at Departure airports - in this case DUB.

I do recall 3 years ago when I was departing MCO for DUB on a EI flight I noticed a Virgin arrival and its PAX had to go through the 'full monty' security. So it's not directetd exclusively at flights from DUB.

What is it with the TSA at MCO?

[Skipness One Echo]

What is the stated reason for this additional security check after the flight? What's the idea?

[radeng]

Skipness,

'what's the idea?'

Maybe to persuade people to spend their money somewhere else.

Four years ago, Colin Powell was warning Congress that the enhanced security was costing the US billions of dollars in loss of tourism, students and transit passengers....

[deltaxray]

Can anyone shed light onto why we picl up our bags at MCO only to put them on another conveyor belt. I lost a bag that way and their excuse was......"maybe it didnt get on in gatwick":ugh:

[Porrohman]

Back in the late 80's it once took me 3.5 hours to clear passport contol at Newark, even though I was one of the first off the plane (I'd arrived SLF on a Virgin Atlantic 747, Upper Class, from LGW). When I cleared passport control the queues were still out of sight and into the corridor beyond the passport control area. I can only assume that there had been some kind of heightened state of alert or maybe the automatic passenger screening system was down and they were having to clear everyone manually.

Not long after 9/11 I returned from MCO as SLF. Check-in took an hour and a half because they had to request a manual security clearance for each passenger before issuing a boarding pass. We'd been forewarned of the delays so we were prepared for them.

These sorts of delays, albeit not too common, are one of the "pleasures" of international air travel.

[Hartington]

If malc4d is correct sounds like what happens at Atlanta. You arrive, go through customs and immigration then have to board the inter terminal train to get to the main terminal. Because that train is used by departing passengers as well and because it is possible to get off the train at intermediate stops to board US domestic flights it is considered part of the "sterile" airside area so you have to go through security. Not only that but you *have* to give up your checked baggage and recollect it on arrival in the main terminal.

I seem to remember that the same procedure occurs at Charlotte.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Yes and at ATL, any liquids that you have landed with, must be packed into your suitcase or you loose it.
Told a lot of very p***ed off SLF, having there Duty Free bottles taken away.:{

[heidelberg]

Good point about the duty free Spotty and I quote - 'Yes and at ATL, any liquids that you have landed with, must be packed into your suitcase or you loose it.
Told a lot of very p***ed off SLF, having there Duty Free bottles taken away'.
Aer Lingus sold duty free to PAX on the DUB/MCO flight. I wonder what happened going through 'on arrival security' with the duty free.
I had a half consumed small bottle of water confiscated. I didn't have the presence of mind to drink it in front of the TSA person. (Maybe I was lucky I didn't think of doing it - I was so tired after a 9hr 30min flight - might have taken longer to get thorugh security!).
Anyway 30 minutes away by car I was in a Walmart store selling guns!
Crazy what?!!!!
Seriously though this type of absolutely silly and unnecessary security on arrival is turning reasonable PAX against TSA and security personnel at other airports.
Incidentally is this a TSA reflection of security by airports abroad - in this case Dublin?

[iain8867]

With MCO I think it was just badly planned. When you arrive on an international flight you have to go through the departures area. The States like to do their own security thing, hence even tho you have already been screened you are going to be screened going into departures again. Total pain and the Cabin Crews should be aware of this and inform you if purchasing Duty Free on board.

[TFAME]

I had a similar experience with MCO a few years ago . Thank god god for SFB !! Totally different experience.

best wishes

TFAME

[apaddyinuk]

The reason why this occurs at both MCO and ATL is because once you collect your luggage after Immigration you are re-entering an airside area in order to take the shuttle to the main terminal. You are mixing with outbound passengers and as you have claimed your suitcases (even though they do get taken off you again) you could have had a weapon of sorts in it which you could technically pass on to an out bound passenger!

Ridiculous set up I know but americans were never known for their intelligent airport procedures!

[heidelberg]

'apaddyinuk'. Tks for response.
During the last few years I have used Lingus twice DCT from DUB and had to go through the 'arrival security' with only one gate available!

I flew DCT from LGW with BA and had none of this 'arrival security' business.

I flew via PHL with US Airways twice and had the usual first USA port of call procedures reloading my checked luggage and going through security as a first time pax.
I suppose this is more acceptable because I had a 2 hour layover anyway. And at PHL there were several security gates open - unlike only one at MCO.

If your comments re having something untoward on you which one can give to the departure pax one is mixing with, it indicates a serious lack of confidence of the security the pax went through at DUB or wherever the departure airport was!

Incidentally I travelled in the Premium seat section (cost 200 euro extra per leg) and the individual in flight entertainment system broke down shortly after take off. It was one of the 12 year old 330! I would have been very annoyed if I had payed the full Premier/Business fare - had it been on offer.
I understand Lingus are having repeated problems with their inflight entertainment systems on the older 330's.
Not good enough when one pays extra for the sevice and they are unable to deliver it.
I suppose a partial refund is out of the question? Am I wasting my time trying for one?

[apaddyinuk]

Hiedelberg, I am crew for BA and I can assure you that the passengers (and Virgins too as they use the same area as us) do indeed go through the same process as EI passengers only at a different boarding area, the crew slip out a door so they dont have to do it but sure I have been on the flight as a passenger many times, as recently as last December.

Also you will find that no airport will "trust" the security of another airport, that is why in whatever airport you go to, transit passengers are generally re scanned by security again as every country (or aviation authority) has its own standards of security. Believe it or not but transit passengers in Dublin also have to go through security again despite having the new transit access by belt area one. And when it comes to passenger luggage, well you are allowed to load items into your hold luggage which could be considered a weapon as long as it is not in your cabin baggage.

[blaggerman]

apaddyinuk is spot on. Because the vast majority of US airports don't have customs, international passengers must clear customs at the first airport they land at. Bad airport design at ATL and MCO means that even if you aren't connecting to another flight you may still need to go though the sterile area to get out. And since you've had access to your bags in customs, you are no longer sterile. It's not a reflection on where you came from.

The introduction of customs preclearance in Ireland will eliminate the problem for participating flights. And in ATL, the planned new international terminal will allow people to exit without taking the train through the domestic terminals.

[heidelberg]

The posts clearly indicate there is no set pattern as to whether or not one goes through security on arrival at MCO off an international flight.
I think the TSA has gone into 'semantic' mode at MCO re whether or not there will be a full securiy check on arrival PAX.
However one has a legitimate complaint the fact only one security gate is in operation. Clearly this is unacceptable when 300 + pax are after arriving off one flight. Can't imagine what its like when more than one flight arrives same time!
Similarly the fact only two immigration desks are in operation is unacceptable. Do the people who man these immigration/security areas ever travel as PAX into MCO off an international flight? Would they find it acceptable if they were one of the last off the aircraft an d it took them another 2 + hours to clear immigration or/and security?
'Cattle class' or 'SLF' jsut about sums up the way we human beings are treated at MCO!

[apaddyinuk]

Well you have now wandered into a totally different discussion there.
Clearly your complaint is with the staffing levels at the security and the immigration desks. However you will learn that when it comes to the states, they are a law onto themselves with whom both passengers and airlines are at the mercy of.
It is also next to impossible to make a complaint against them so the best thing to do is just take it in your stride.
I personally have nothing but good things to say about the TSA staff and immigration officers in MCO which is not something I can say for most other airports in the states as I am more than used to their generally surly attitude. However I find the MCO staff generally accept that most people arriving in MCO are there for a once in a lifetime holiday and try to treat them as such!!!

[heidelberg]

What I have shown is there is no consistency at MCO when it comes to security on arrival. Within 30 minutes of getting my rental car I can be at a Walmart store looking at dozens of all types of firearms. As a Florida resident I can get one if I choose. As an Irish National I abhor the gun culture in Florida and the US in general. I had a small half filled bottle of water taken by the security at MCO! for gods sake!!!
Yes, I do have a very serious issue with only one seccurity gate open for arrivals by the TSA at MCO. If you consider this as satisfactory 'apaddyinuk' it must be dreadful at other US airports. However my TSA experience in Philly has always been satisfactory.
It was not too long ago when as Captain of GA flights to the UK I had to present my PAX (and myself) to the Special Branch at airports up and down the UK. I and my pax were always treated with the utmost courtesy by the UK SB.
This was not the case with wheel chair pax at MCO recently and I recall I had a similar feeling about the way the TSA treated a wheelchair pax on another occasion.
However you are right when you state - 'they are a law onto themselves with whom both passengers and airlines are at the mercy of'.
To-days flight deck and cabin crew have my utmost understanding and sympathy with the treatment you suffer day in day out in the pursuit of your employment due to the security you have to endure at the start of every flight.
PAX are suffeering too - and without us there is no need for the TSA's of this world or indeed no need for aircrew too.
I know 911 changed the world. However it must be possible to deal with security in a much more user friendly manner without comprimising it.

[JEM60]

I have been through Orlando several times, with no problems, but not recently. However, I have been to the States 16 times now, and had NO problems with delays at immigration. JFK in November was positivley enjoyable, though I suspect the young lady may have recognised me! HOWEVER, slight thread drift here, entering the USVirgin Islands by cruise ship a week later, on a Five Star Cruise, EVERYBODY,crew and passengers, whether getting off the ship or not, 2500 people, had to present themselves to US immigration at 7AM. Their popularity rating was extremely reduced, not just by me!!!!

[AdamC]

I had a very nice experience coming through Orlando last month, I did notice the screening equipment as we walked over to the shuttle - But they wasn't used and ropes where held across the departure lounge so we could cross over to the shuttle.

Immigration where friendly enough, just doing their job, waited 15 minutes at the most for an avaliable desk - Asked the usual questions about why I was visiting the States and if I'd been before etc, didn't care where I was staying.

I would not hestiate about going to MCO again, maybe I was just lucky?? - I guess you could always choose an airline that flys to SFB!!!

[Curious Pax]

Just read through the thread, and the Orlando Airport website, and it would appear to depend on which airline you arrive with internationally as to whether you have to go through security on arrival. Arriving on the satellite containing gates 60-69 (as Virgin and BA do) it states that there is a direct escalator from customs to the shuttle train (which would keep you away from departing passengers), whereas from other satellites you have to go back through the departure area (this would apply to Aer Lingus as they use gates 1-29).

Thus it implies that Virgin and BA pax don't have to go through security - I certainly hope this is the case as I arrive there on VS in a couple of months time. Can anyone confirm?

[WHBM]

Among many structural problems the US Homeland Security have is that it has become the occupation of choice for enlisted military personnel leaving the service.

Unfortunately they bring their complete lack of people skills (which in the US military are even less developed than in other armed forces), and a "do what I say or else", etc approach with them. And their managers are from the same background so can't see any issue. Add in a US military belief that anyone from "overseas" is an anti-US terrorist until proved otherwise (and sometimes not even then), and a heaven-sent opportunity to get their own back against those higher up the ladder in society who remind them of their old officers, and you can see how it has all turned out this way.

In contrast the many US commercial pilots who are ex-Air Foce do not show this approach, and in fact are as hacked off with TSA etc as the rest of us. But then they were officers, from a culturally very different different world.

[heidelberg]

From the MCO site:

'International Passengers
may now Keep Your Bags'

'International Only: After clearing Immigration you will recover your baggage from the baggage carousel and proceed through the Customs checkpoint'.

'International Only: After exiting the aircraft, international passengers will be required to produce passports at the Immigration checkpoint'.

'International Only: After clearing Immigration and Customs, proceed to the AGT (train) station. Airside 4 (Gates 60-99) now has an escalator directly from Customs to the AGT station. If you do not wish to take your checked baggage with you, you may place your bags on the baggage belt for transfer to the Main Terminal'.

Perhaps our disatisfaction with the security check on arrival is in the past judging by the above copied from the MCO website.
Hope so!

[fendant]

TSA = The Stupid Agency

WHBM sums it up= US citizen = white hat ( good guy )
all others = potential terrorists

I have to fly for business reasons 12 - 15 time to the US. This country is the most hostile country to travel to. Agree with WHBM that TSA is a habour for all Americans lacking people skills. They must have hired a couple of ex East-German border guards for training.

No way I would even think of taking my family for a holiday to the US. My impression that even North Korea or Burma would be more inviting. In fact Chinese "immigration" yesterday was courteous, a big smile " welcome to China" and took less than one minute. You also had push smiley buttons to judge the procedure and their attitudes. This is something theUS should copy and link to the pay of the always rude INS ( International Nuisance Service) morons.

It is now even legal in many states that wacky characters ( as long as they are US citizens ) can threaten foreigners who are not familiar with local rules with a gun!

When you fly out you see the opposite: Overweight, underintelligent and overpaid security staff sleeping in front of the screens.

The only good thing the creation TSA has brought, is probably medical coverage for some 60.000+ staff.

Frank

[heidelberg]

'fendant' your post does not help. Incidentally I, my wife and family vist Florida regularly via MCO and we always enjoy ourselves. Also, there are very few examples of anything but pleasantness by everyone - including TSA personnel. I know there are exceptions everywhere.
Now back to reality - why EI PAX have to go through a security check on arrival?
Following is a direct quote from MCO management which explains everything - I think.
'Unfortunately due to the major construction project taking place on Airside 1 (Gates 1-29), we are currently unable to provide for the sterile transfer of international passengers to the Main Terminal which previously avoided the requirement for a security check for international arrivals. We hope to resume this ability and return to the former level of customer service as soon as construction allows. At that time, you will also see major improvements to Airside 1, much more inline with what you are familiar with on Airside 4 (Gates 60-99)'.
I've been told it is expected to complete the work by June 2009.
Now I have a question for Aer Lingus.
Do as Virgin and BA do - use Gates 60-99 in the interim?