Are 4 abreast DC-3s comfortable?

[chornedsnorkack]

Well, are they?

They are certainly common.

The cabin width of DC-3, however, is 234 cm.

Compare with 249 cm cabin of CRJ, whose passengers complain it is cramped, or 263 cm cabin of Concorde, whose passengers also complain of narrow tube.

So - how wide cabin is needed for 4 comfortable seats abreast?

[Fris B. Fairing]

Short answer is no. However if the passenger is flying on a four abreast DC-3 simply because it's a DC-3 then this won't matter. Having spent many hours guiding visitors through the cabin of VH-ANR at the Queensland Air Museum I can report that an additional problem is the reduced width of the aisle. Even with my svelte figure I find it necessary to side-slip down the aisle. Former hosties from three abreast days find this particularly confronting and some wisely confine their visit to the rear galley.

In any case, this is about to become academic as the EU Fun Police step in to protect us from the dangers of celebrating our aviation history. I am reminded that the late Patron of QAM, Air Vice-Marshal Don Bennett had fought moves to join the EU. Incidentally, VH-ANR celebrated her 70th birthday last year. In answer to the inevitable question, no she doesn't fly, except in the imagination of her many admirers.

[evansb]

Four-abreast comfortable? One must weigh certain factors..

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/overHeathrow.jpg

although nothing beats the original factory parts.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/factory_original.jpg

[FlightlessParrot]

The DC3 was designed a long time ago, when people were smaller. IIRC, when the Routemaster was introduced into London, a seat width of 18" (45.72cm) was an innovation in comfort. Four-abreast would be to about the same standard.

It depends, too, on where it might be operating. In contrast to the photo of evansb, I remember seeing at the University where I used to work two young Chinese women sharing a stacking chair, with no overhang.

Michael

now old, fat and in the way

[chornedsnorkack]

although nothing beats the original factory parts.


Where is this picture made from?

I hear that the lower bed/seat was 92 cm wide. That leaves 50 cm aisle width.

Which means that with photographer´s back against the beds across the aisle, there would not be much of a view...

An example of 4 abreast seating:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Dakota-Norway/Douglas-C-53D-Skytrooper/1181118/L/

[emeritus]

In a nutshell..No.

I flew for a short time on DC3 's back in 1963 including one that was configured with 4 across ( VH-ANP ). As I remember the seats were not comfortable when compared to the standard configuration.

On one occasion I flew a charter with a full load of males who were timbercutters. The cabin resembled a flying sardine tin !

Those were the days..flying in rain with a plastic raincoat over one's knees to keep the crease in a very new uniform !!

Emeritus. :cool::cool:

[chornedsnorkack]

Some more 4 abreast DC-3s:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled-(CM-Aero/Douglas-C-47...-Skytrain/1105323/L/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Douglas-DC-3-201C/1102112/L/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Dakota-Norway/Douglas-C-53D-Skytrooper/1000982/L/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ozark-Air-Lines/Douglas-DC-3A/0924928/L/

DC-3 at 3 abreast:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/American-Airlines-(Flagship/Douglas-DC-3-178/1273161/L/

There are actually more cramped 4 abreast planes!

Yak 40:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Serbia-&-Montenegro/Yakovlev-Yak-40/0568885/L/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia-State-Transport/Yakovlev-Yak-40/0836461/L/

and see it with bodies packed inside:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia-State-Transport/Yakovlev-Yak-40/0672192/L/

[BelArgUSA]

Whatever the "original DC-3" was, it was designed (and listed) as a 21 seat airplane... was 7 windows per side, 1 row of 3 seats per window... then of course after the war, there was anything and any configuration you dream of.
xxx
Flying around as I did (as passenger) positioning for assignments, I have seen it all. Although not DC-3s... that was before my days. I always hate those airplanes known as "commuters" in the USA. Like the CRJs nowadays. No room. Often I rather rent a car and drive, or take the train in Europe.
xxx
Having been in these F-27s, these CV-440s, Caravelles, DC-6s, Viscounts, Tridents, 727 or 737s and many I forget to list... of them all, I like the 2+3 seating as found in Caravelles and DC-9/MD-80s are. And even if the cabin is near full, there is less of a "overcrowed" feeling that you get on 3+3 seating.
xxx
I hate to deadhead on a 3+3 (typical 737) cabin, with my flight case that fits exactly under the font seat... What can I say. Pilots hate to be passengers? No, not really. But I hate some cabin configurations. I feel I should sit on an overwing exit (at least I know all about evacuation) but I hardly ever get it.
xxx
So for me, make it a DC-3 with 1+2 seating rows, a DC-9 with 2+3, and I shall be happy. Twin aisle, wide bodies? - I hate them, unless in Club Class, or the upper deck of a 747... And I dont care for a movie. Give me some wine, I will sleep, leave me alone. No need for food, generally.
xxx
I got to fly a DC-3 once in my life, as a guest co-pilot. Was great. But I have to admit, outside of cruising it for 10-15 minutes at 2 or 3,000 ft AGL, I would not have known how to start it, taxi it, takeoff, nor landing...! More handles, knobs, switches and gages with wierd names than my 747 has...
xxx
:)
Happy contrails

[The SSK]

All my DC3 flying was on Delta Air Transport in the 1970s, between Antwerp ans Amsterdam, Brussels and Eindhoven and once BRU-ANR - 35 km and 12min30sec airborne. I recall incredibly comfortable seats of a 'bucket' design but I can't remember how many abreast.

My backside was smaller in those days too.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Don't think there were ever complaints about Concorde's 4 abreast seats. My one and only supersonic flight was on the jump seat of G-BOAD, but come and sample the passenger cabin (and indeed the pilot's seats!) in G-BOAC at MAN.... supremely comfortable (as you'd expect if you paying the thick end of £7K return to NY!).

SSD

[chornedsnorkack]

Whatever the "original DC-3" was, it was designed (and listed) as a 21 seat airplane... was 7 windows per side, 1 row of 3 seats per window...

Counting the upper berth windows?

I always hate those airplanes known as "commuters" in the USA. Like the CRJs nowadays. No room.

Like this?
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Canada-Jazz/Canadair-CL-600-2D15-Regional/0895885/L/

[Hyperborean]

Having been fortunate to try most configurations, from sitting on the floor with my back to the bulkhead through paratroop seats, 3 abreast and 4 abreast; I have to say 3 abreast is the most comfortable. It helped that the flight from LSI to ABZ many years ago in the early days of the oil boom was carried out on a winter's day of high pressure, absolutely still, gin clear air and I wasn't paying. That said my most memorable DC3/C47 experience was standing on the flight deck at low level in the South Pacific. My eye was drawn inexorably to the manufacturer's plate which showed that, at 7 years older than me, both the airframe and I were a little long in the tooth for such capers.

[chornedsnorkack]

I like the 2+3 seating as found in Caravelles and DC-9/MD-80s

Like those:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Scandinavian-Airlines--/Sud-SE-210-Caravelle/1015990/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Inter/Aerospatiale-SE-210-Caravelle/0880278/L/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Athis-Paray-Aviation/Sud-SE-210-Caravelle/0493660/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Altair/Sud-SE-210-Caravelle/0061948/L/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Toulouse/Sud-SE-210-Caravelle/0049989/L/

But Caravelle is said to be appreciably, 13 cm or so, narrower than DC-9...

I hate to deadhead on a 3+3 (typical 737) cabin, with my flight case that fits exactly under the font seat...
Twin aisle, wide bodies? - I hate them, unless in Club Class, or the upper deck of a 747...

Is this:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-France/Boeing-737-5H6/0742605/L/

really so much worse than this:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-France/Boeing-747-4B3M/1288537/L/ ?

And what is wrong about this:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Virgin-Nigeria-Airways/Boeing-767-3Y0-ER/1221816/L/ ?

[BelArgUSA]

Hola chornedsnorkack -
xxx
Yes, 13 cm accounts for a lot of difference for SE-210 and DC-9...
But my cute little cheeks fit fine, in such seats. At least as I recall.
Last time I was in a Caravelle, was in 1986 with Sterling.
And I lost the notebook where I wrote the cabin width.
Was, what...? 22 years ago or so... me, is getting old, no memory.
xxx
Nice interior for that CRJ... obviously executive class.
I am certain that the majority of CRJs are configured like that one.
Each time in a CRJ, I have to share half my seat with the fat guy next to me.
xxx
You are correct for the sleeper windows of the very first AA DC-3s.
Not old enough to be able to remember that they were the first DC-3s
I remember the most common models... 7 windows, 7 rows of 3 seats = 21.
And some could be with rows of 4 seats, that would bring seating to 28.
Certainly, there were some DC-3s with an extra window as well.
My former career was aircraft spotter, when I was 10 or 12 years old.
But after I retire next November, hope not to hear the word "airplane".
xxx
Please, now, brief us of the cabin door being located on starboard side.
Or how many cycles per minute for the toilet flush, and liters per minute...?
We pilots, are thrilled to be educated about airplanes...
xxx
:8
Happy contrails

[con-pilot]

Although this DC-3 was a VIP/Corporate aircraft here are a couple of pictures of the 1-2 seating interior.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/con-pilot/12-26-2007_014.jpg



http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/con-pilot/12-26-2007_015.jpg

[chornedsnorkack]

There are certainly several airlines who have first class on their CRJ-s. Like Northwest/Mesaba:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Northwest-Airlink-(Mesaba/Canadair-CL-600-2D24-Regional/1318249/L/

or Air Canada Jazz:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Canada-Jazz/Canadair-CL-600-2D15-Regional/0966183/L/

Another 3 abreast DC-3:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Fly-LPI/Douglas-C-47B-Skytrain/0967339/L/

But a DC-3 can be made even more comfortable - if desired:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/KLM---Royal/Douglas-C-47A-Skytrain/1265184/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Spirit-of-Seventy/Douglas-DC-3-362/1197343/L/

[evansb]

Here is an Alaskan Super DC-3. Looks like an ideal configuration.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/dak_interior.jpg

[tinpis]

You didnt know you were alive until you rode the PNG "side saddle" Daks

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/tinpis/sidesaddledc3.jpg

Wendy Mac photo

[MarkerInbound]

evansb, are you sure that is a Super DC-3? There were only 103 built, three for Capital and 100 converted regular R4-Ds for the US Navy. I can only think of one somewhat airworthy example in the US, last time I saw it a couple of years ago, it was missing an engine.

[pigboat]

Borek sold theirs to an Alaskan outfit in August or September last year I believe. Could be that one.

[MarkerInbound]

Pulled up the FAA records and there was a DC-3S (turboprop no less) that had it's airworthyness certificate pulled by the FAA in Alaska. Didn't know any of the Super Threes had been converted to turboprops. Wonder which type rating would apply, DC-3S or DC-3TP?

[Hyperborean]

i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh51/Hyperborean_2008
Slightly less full at 10 abreast! If the resolution was better you could make out the small pig en route to a barbecue, right at the back.

[Hyperborean]

Oops! My finger trouble with photobucket back to the instructions.

[Hyperborean]

253.photobucket.com/albums/hh51/Hyperborean_2008
Trying again with picture.

[Hyperborean]

i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh51/hyperborean_2008
Trying again with picture. If this doesn't work I will consult my expert (25 year old son) and retry later in the week.

[TowerDog]

I flew DC-3s with 30 pax, it was 4 abreast seating if memory serves me right.

Most of the flights were from St. Thomas to San Juan and back.
5 round trips per day.

The few times I flew in the back I thought the seats were quite comfortable, but that was 22 years and 22 kgs ago....:sad: