2.6 %

[effects]

See here,
http://www.gnn.gov.uk/Content/Detail.asp?ReleaseID=350957&NewsAreaID=2

[mutleyfour]

Thanks for that, didn't realise that the RAF Regt was suffering so badly with retention, I know we all give them grief but I will reiterate the marked change in security at Kandahar was 100% when they assumed responsibility. A good bunch that deserve whatever they get.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Oh well. 2.6% IN FULL is better than nothing I suppose.

Such a pity that we have to find out through a news source rather than from the MOD - still nothing on their website.

[The Masked Geek]

They probably laid off the webmaster to cover the increase. :}

[colonel cluster]

Roland, coulnd't agree more! Was wondering as to the risk of a wah, but all the links on the page work. Has anyone seen the full signal?

[PRO NCA]

I agree it would be nice to see the full report, to see where this big X factor increase we were meant to be getting dissapeared to. As I would hardly call 1% large

[Odie]

I wait with baited breath for the rank by rank breakdown. :sad:

I also wait for the details to see Golden Brown offset the pay rise with rises in food, accommodation, quarters rent, etc, to recoup some of the extra pay. :bored:


I agree it would be nice to see the full report, to see where this big X factor increase we were meant to be getting dissapeared to. As I would hardly call 1% large

Well one rumour was accurate, the 7% increase in x-factor was exactly that. Going from 13% to 14% of pay is nearly a 7.7% increase of the original 13%. :ugh:

[Mr Bollo]

The full report is at:

http://www.ome.uk.com/downloads/AFPRB%2037th%20Report.pdf

Time to get a cup of tea and read and digest!

[minigundiplomat]

Many of those leaving don't really care about the pay, and a large increase wouldn't change their minds anyway.
But this is far from enough to sway the remainder. Look out for a huge increase in FRI next year, when they realise they've porked it!

[rockape2k7]

Thanks for that, didn't realise that the RAF Regt was suffering so badly with retention, I know we all give them grief but I will reiterate the marked change in security at Kandahar was 100% when they assumed responsibility. A good bunch that deserve whatever they get.

Cheers always nice to know our 'customers' appreciate what we do! Deploying there in late August for another 6 monther...:eek:

[VinRouge]

2.6%.... What a joke. I bet they want us to believe inflation ius under control and ACTUALLY at 2.1% (above the target and yet the BOE are due to cut rates again in 15 minutes!!! :mad:)

Flying pay upped by 2.6% as well as op allce...

See no mention of how much accom is due to go up % wise...

VERY sinister...

[Gainesy]

At the end of the day, it gets dark, but 2.6% of bugger all is still bugger all.

[mutleyfour]

VinRouge asked "Any news about any increase to Op allce or Flying pay?"



The rates of Specialist Pay (including Flying Pay, Submarine Pay, Diving Pay and Hydrographic Pay) will also increase by 2.6 per cent. A new category of specialist pay is also being introduced for Explosive Ordnance Disposal personnel.

[South Bound]

So then, a total of 3.6% across the board, still below the RPI by some way and we will be expected to be grateful for it.

Not the gesture of support or recognition of the changing fac realities of the military that many were looking for. No doubt this view will be taken as whinging and I should just count my blessings when I look at the rest of the Public Sector pay rises. I don't think so. Fortunately the private sector is not so constrained....

Disappointed with the AFPRB to be honest. 1% on X-factor???

[November4]

Example of pay rates is on the MOD site (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness/PayRiseForEveryoneInTheArmedForces.htm)

This will get the CivPol upset again....

[VinRouge]

What happend to the rumour that they were recommending 20%?

Lets face it, UKPLC is bankrupt, the government are going to have to go through a huge bond issue to fund this year's budget, I suppose in the circumstances, looking at labours record in defence we should be happy with what we have got.

Anyone else see "reposession X3" on ITV... it was a bit of a shocker! Economic downturn here we come!

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

"This pay increase is good news for the Armed Forces at a time when their dedication, determination and courage continue to be tested. It reflects the outstanding contributions our people and their families are making to the defence of our nation. It is also a tangible demonstration of the high regard in which our people are held by the Government and the nation."


Is he serious?

[Tracey Island]

Accom up by 3.7%, food by 3.4%.

Lovely quote at para 2.3, "On inflation, the Government argued that if what it viewed as short term influences (in particular energy and food price inflation) were stripped out, underlying core inflation had remained low and generally under 2%"

Perhaps if we strip out all the other measurements of inflation we could get it to zero? :rolleyes:

Interesting at the table of X-factor considerations at 4.1, of the 18 X-factor factors (us being compared to civilians), 13 have got worse, 4 remain the same and only one has got better...all that for just 1%?

[Wensleydale]

I thought that our pay included the X factor. However by announcing an increase in the X factor of just 1%, does this mean that 87% (ish) of our pay gets 2.6% and the remainder gets just 1%, actually giving us less money?

I am confused by a misleading article:confused:.

[SuctionBoost]

Using the example pay ranges, the overall increase is approx 3.5% for ranks below Lt Col and averages 8% at and above this rank. The restructuring of the x factor for the knobs appears to have had a significant effect on senior salaries.

[VinRouge]

There was me thinking that average rents nationally had dropped in real terms... never mind. Trust gordon. If he and the ONS say that they have gone up 3.6%, that must be the case....

:mad: Tossers.

[mutleyfour]

There was me thinking that average rents nationally had dropped in real terms... never mind. Trust gordon. If he and the ONS say that they have gone up 3.6%, that must be the case....

I dont suppose his rent has gone up by 3.6%, oh no he probably gets a 20k allowance to live near to his place of work on top of his free domestic arrangement at number 10/11!

[AngryDave]

I always thought that X-Factor pay was a million £ recording contract and a year with Simon Cowell.

Have I got this wrong?

[Odie]

The headline inflation (CPI) has been running around 2% for the year, which gives us a headline inflation busting rise, actual inflation (RPI (http://www3.hants.gov.uk/finance/retailpricesindexandconsumerpriceindex.htm)) has been around 4 - 4.5%, which means that, unless you're a Wing Comedian or above, we've just had a pay cut that's been polished up. :{

[oldfella]

Taking the examples from the MOD website and using the basic Private example, this massive, inflation busting rise equals an extra 36 pounds per month take-home pay, before any increases in charges. Don't be tempted to spend it all at once lads!

[Epimetheus]

According to the BBC report - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7232379.stm


Downing Street said this pay award was for a different pay round than the controversial settlements imposed on other public sector workers for 2007-08.



Prime Minister Gordon Brown's spokesman said: "The government continues to believe there needs to be discipline in relation to public sector pay and we need to set awards in line with the government's inflation target."
Decisions have to be taken year by year, sector by sector, he said. He added decisions on pay in relation to public sector workers for this year have not yet been made.


This is a particularly good vintage of spin. I am most definitely confused.

[TMJ]

I thought that our pay included the X factor. However by announcing an increase in the X factor of just 1%, does this mean that 87% (ish) of our pay gets 2.6% and the remainder gets just 1%, actually giving us less money?

I am confused by a misleading article:confused:.

The payrise applies to the whole salary including the X Factor; the X Factor is also bing increased. Think of it as the pay rise being applied, the old X Factor being stripped out and the new X Factor being applied.

Pay08 = Pay07 * 1.026 / 1.13 * 1.14
= Pay07 (Payrise) (strip out old Old X Factor) (apply new X Factor)

The net effect approximates to a 3.5% overall increase in each pay level.

[dampsquib]

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/CorporatePublications/PersonnelPublications/Pay/ArmedForcesPayReviewBodyReport2008.htm

[Eckster]

For those of you who haven't gone through the AFPRB pdf document, the following is extracted for SFA increases


recommend a 3.7 per cent increase to Grade 1 SFA/SLA rental charges and lower, graduated increases for Grades 23 with no increase to Grade 4 (Grade 4 SFA rental charges have been frozen since 1997 and SLA since 1998). We recommend a phased increase to garage rent to reflect increases to civilian charges.

[Almost_done]

a phased increase to garage rent to reflect increases to civilian charges

Is that inner London garage charges?

Seeing as we pay our CILOCT to Westminster!! :}

[the_flying_cop]

well. i think that 2.6% in the current climate is a good award. especially when you consider the shenanigans over the rozzers pay rise.

having said that, you lot deserve every penny and more. its just a shame that all public sector pay rises are not 'real world' increases.

i hardly think that inflation will soar out of control by paying us all what we are actually worth.


ho hum, and stay safe.

TFC

[blogger]

2.6 %

With the tax bands not moving Gordon gets 40% of that back and another 8% for NI for most of the officers and SNCO's in the forces.

E.G

Wage 50K @ 2.6% thats worth £1300 a year after taking 48% off for tax thats. £676 a year or £56 a month.

HTD just went down before I left by £9 a month. So in all £47 a MONTH increase before taking food and quarters off.

Gas up 17% lecky up 15% petrol massive increase.

Must be worth in real term a negative pay rise.

Glad I PVR'D

Enjoy your next 4 month trip to the sand pit.:D

[spekesoftly]

HTD just went down before I left by £9 a month. So in all £47 a year increase before taking food and quarters off.
No doubt a typo, but I make that £47 a month increase before .... etc.

[FATTER GATOR]

At this rate I'm going to have to get myself promoted again just to try and avoid taking a pay cut in real terms. House prices, energy prices, council tax increases, fuel prices, transport costs etc etc and this government insists that they have inflation in check. Try looking at the RPI and see whether you are getting a pay rise.

Not on your nelly.

[glad rag]

.....Pay rise?? what's one of them?

[3 bladed beast]

Good luck to P.A.....they worked hard at school obviously....:)

As for my thoughts, I think that Blogger has summed it up perfectly!

[WhiteOvies]

Its below inflation but at least it's not as below as some others...

Maybe its a cunning ploy to get us all to volunteer for ops cos we can't afford to live in this country? The wife will no doubt leave me so that cuts down on expenses further. :hmm:

[PingDit]

Maybe its a cunning ploy to get us all to volunteer for ops cos we can't afford to live in this country? The wife will no doubt leave me so that cuts down on expenses further.

Is that after you've 'volunteered' to part with 50% of your pension and started your monthly 'contributions' to keep her in the lifestyle to which she's become accustomed?:uhoh:

[AED24]

My circumstances (WO high band level 5) result in a pay rise of just over 3.5%. Yes, there is still plenty of room to complain about all manner of things in today's Armed Forces, but I am happy with this increase and have recieived similar comments from all in my workplace, Sqn Ldr to SAC, RAF and RN alike. Not looking for an argument, just passing on the view of a still serving but ever cynical old git.

[SVK]

T. Island:

Lovely quote at para 2.3, "On inflation, the Government argued that if what it viewed as short term influences (in particular energy and food price inflation) were stripped out, underlying core inflation had remained low and generally under 2%"

However, if you strip out the short term influences such as energy and food place inflation, then why the hell is SLA being increased and food increased to 3.89 per day????


Edited to add: Not disagreeing with you old bean, just finding it rather amusing how they pick and choose their indexes!

[theonewhoknows]

OF4/5/6s - all getting an average 8% pay rise, because they are all now doing more time away! Really!!

Am I being a little sensitive, but isn't this crap?

How many f------ OF4/5/6s are actually spending time away? More importantly, how many are in harms way?

Thoughts!:ugh:

[cynicalint]

I am not an OF 4, 5 or 6 as I cannot count higher than 3, nor will I ever be able to but...I think most of them deserve every penny of the 8 %. HOWEVER, and an exceptionally big 'however', if this is true it is going to be massivly damaging to morale and difficult to square with everyone else only getting 3.5%. Very few OF4-6 will be affected by the SLA/FMQ rises and it will give the impression that the Brass are feathering their own nests, when in fact most OF4-6 had little or nothing to do with the AFPRB's recommendations; perhaps it is a cynical attempt by the Govt to drive another wedge into the military's cohesion. I fear a spectacular own goal about to appear on the score sheet.

[rudekid]

Trying to read between the usual management speak (I'm a bit thick) it seems that the equation between what a Wg Cdr (or equiv.) could earn outside and what he earns inside has been eroded. This is an attempt to redress the balance maybe? Or is it more likely that it's a carrot to keep all the Sqn Ldr/Major/Lt Cdrs interested for a little longer?

Still, these rises should be better targeted across the spectrum. We all know how many shiny wg cdr posts exist, you don't see many wg cdr eng posts in theatre do you?

Good to see that FRI is targeted at the junior ranks as well. At least it shows it's not just a badly targeted tool for keeping those aircrew mates who'd already decided to stay....:E

Overall, it's not brilliant, but we'd be naive in the extreme to think we were going to get any bigger settlement this year.

Can't quite get my head the x-factor increase, but my pay has definitely gone up by more than the headline percentage, even given an annual increment. :confused:

[[email protected]]

rudekid - apply the x factor rise to your pay first, then apply the 2.6% to that figure - then look at the difference which will be circa 3.5% from old to new.

[rudekid]

Thanks Crab.

[maximo ping]

Has anyone found details of PAS rates for 2008 yet?

[Winch-control]

Yep shafted again.....When will the UK realise that Labour will always shaft their own, but not themselves... True for the foreseeable!

[Wensleydale]

PAS Rates:

Go to the defence intranet page and click onto the pay rise article. Related documents on the RHS include the full PRB report for 2008. PAS rates are on page 60. (Not that I've looked at such a vulgar sum...)

[ScufferEng]

HHmmmm... now let me see, most of the AFPRB are made up from retired Cols , and a few legal type buddies etc, but I'm sure this had no bearing on their decision making process-if indeed there was any! Still mustn't grumble we did better than the teachers and plod!:)

[Report Line]

Happy to serve whatever the pay!

[blogger]

Happy to serve whatever the pay!

Get some time in see the light and PVR.

Richard brain comes to light.

[Melchett01]

Could have been better given everything we have to contend with. Equally, it could have been much much worse and even staged.

As it is, my fag packet calculations suggest that Melchett's rise is actually closer to 3.5% rather than 2.6%. It appears that the AFPRB have played things rather cleverly given extremely limited financial resources available. By first adjusting the X-factor by 1% and then implementing the 2.6% payrise on top of that revised figure means that we get more than the headline amount whilst Gordon manages to portray a reasonable level of restraint.

[SRENNAPS]

A good pay rise for you all and I am very pleased.

However I am not sure about the X factor rise.

My opinion (and this is only for the RAF) is that for the majority of members serving, life has not really changed in the last 20+ years. The majority of personnel only do an OOA once every 5-10 years and I still know quite a few people that have never done one.
More pay should go to those on continual ops, undermanned trades who are always on the go etc, etc.

Now I know some will say that is what separated service pay (whatever it is called these days) is for.

However, my experience is that somebody who is in the frame for lots of OOA’s are normally the same people working their nuts off at home as well.

Plus they are normally get shafted to pick up extra guard duties etc to make up for the time they were on Ops.

If things have changed in the last 12 months I stand to be corrected.

These are the people that should receive more.

Not your 8-5 (can’t be bothered because it is Friday afternoon) type people.
Why should they get an X Factor rise?

[Wrathmonk]

If, and I mean if because I don't know for sure, the X Factor is there to compensate for the operational side of our life is it not time to remove the X factor from the pay packets of those who seem always unfit to deploy. I'm not saying immediatly - play the same rules as applies with flying pay. After 12 months temp unfit or as soon as you are graded permanently unfit to deploy OOA then the X factor stops. May seem harsh but the days of carrying the fat, lame, and downright lazy are long gone.

[sarsteph]

"The X-Factor compensates for such things as, for example, being subject to military discipline, liability for duty at all times, the inability to resign at will, change jobs or negotiate pay, and the danger, turbulence and separation which are part of Service life." (Quoted from an Army website)

So the X-Factor is only partly designed to compensate for the danger and turbulence caused by ops. The Op Allowance and LSA are more specifically targetted towards those in Iraq/Afghanistan. Of course the only people who get the LSA/OA are those who are fit and willing for ops.

[SRENNAPS]

"The X-Factor compensates for such things as, for example, being subject to military discipline, liability for duty at all times, the inability to resign at will, change jobs or negotiate pay, and the danger, turbulence and separation which are part of Service life." (Quoted from an Army website)


Military Discipline – Not what it used to be.

Liability for duty at all times – probably still exists but you might have to argue with the individual and you could end up in court.

The inability to resign at will – A lot of people allegedly taking that to court.

Change jobs or negotiate pay – well anything is possible these days.

Danger - agreed – no argument (for some)

Turbulence - not so sure. Number of people who get out of a posting because of wife/kids etc.


I think I stand by my earlier statement.

[insty66]

A good pay rise for you all and I am very pleased.

However I am not sure about the X factor rise.

My opinion (and this is only for the RAF) is that for the majority of members serving, life has not really changed in the last 20+ years. The majority of personnel only do an OOA once every 5-10 years and I still know quite a few people that have never done one. We don't all end up in the job we want, someone has to do those other jobs that don't always go away
More pay should go to those on continual ops, undermanned trades who are always on the go etc, etc.You canceled your own argument with the statement below

Now I know some will say that is what separated service pay (whatever it is called these days) is for.Look up the rate for someone who has done 4000 days away, this is where the people who go away more often are let down most badly

However, my experience is that somebody who is in the frame for lots of OOA’s are normally the same people working their nuts off at home as well. I used to think I was the only person who worked too, when I grew up I came to realise that there's a whole load more to achieving an operational mission than just the lineys and crew

Plus they are normally get shafted to pick up extra guard duties etc to make up for the time they were on Ops. Seems like bad management to me, nothing more or less than that!

If things have changed in the last 12 months I stand to be corrected.

These are the people that should receive more.I agree they should get more but it should be LSSA or whatever it's called this week, set those levels at at least twice the current rate and we'll be getting somewhere.

Not your 8-5 (can’t be bothered because it is Friday afternoon) type people.
Why should they get an X Factor rise?

Because they are subject to the same rules as everyone else.

[SRENNAPS]

We don't all end up in the job we want, someone has to do those other jobs that don't always go away. Agreed but most of those in jobs that don’t go away are well happy. It is quite easy to get an exchange to a Sqn if you try hard.

Look up the rate for someone who has done 4000 days away, this is where the people who go away more often are let down most badly. Not sure what you mean – have you done 4000 days away?

I used to think I was the only person who worked too, when I grew up I came to realise that there's a whole load more to achieving an operational mission than just the lineys and crew. Agreed again, but it is a whole lot easier than being a Liney or crew – if not policy makers and office jobbers would all be applying to get back on Sqns. These days how many guys in engine bays/ ASFs or neat little posts at Wyton are trying to get back.

Seems like bad management to me, nothing more or less than that! True statement, but sadly true fact of life. You know the attitude from those that don’t do the duties – not their problem and they don’t really care.

I agree they should get more but it should be LSSA or whatever it's called this week, set those levels at at least twice the current rate and we'll be getting somewhere. 100% Agreed.

However in conclusion would you agree that just because they are subject to the same rules as everybody else, the ones that don’t want a hard career job, the ones that are quite happy to sit in a bay somewhere, the ones that will fight a posting because their wife has a professional career (when other wives don’t) the ones that will use their kids as an excuse not to be posted when others go with the flow, should get the same money as the few that do abide by the rules.

I will never forget the WO from Innsworth during a road show at RAF Bruggen:

When Bruggen was closing and loyal personnel were trying to get a decent posting of their choice, his attitude was “you wear a blue suit and we will post you anywhere”. The problem was he had been stationed at Innsworth for 15 years (along with many others around the country who could not be arsed to take up a posting elsewhere) with no ambition to move anywhere.

Hypocritical ****.

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

My opinion (and this is only for the RAF) is that for the majority of members serving, life has not really changed in the last 20+ years. The majority of personnel only do an OOA once every 5-10 years and I still know quite a few people that have never done one.

Are you taking the P1ss? Are you actually in the RAF! On the SH force you can expect to spend one third of your life in some God for saken sh!te0hole - thats a lot of time away from friends and family! Your statistics may be true for the F3 fleet but as for most other people, they regularly deploy to places where they get shot/mortared/rocketed as a daily fact of life... but at least they get a 1% increase in 'x-factor'! I suggest you wake up to what is actually happening in HM Forces or please stop posting on this site!

[SRENNAPS]

Aynayda Pizaqvick

Sorry mate, did not mean to upset you, but I think you missed my point.

I agree that there are quite a few that are on continual ops, particularly in the SH world. I know many lads/lasses that spend 6-9 months of the year away and have been doing so since the mid nineties (I was one of them).

The point that I was trying to make is that the majority of personnel in the RAF (and believe me there is an Air Force outside of the SH world) are still in sleepy 8-5 jobs and they have been there for many, many years. Why should they get the same benefits as those who are working their nuts off?

PS. I am out now (only just). And like so many who post here on Pprune, I left because I realised that you can work your balls off, show total loyalty and dedication and get very little reward for your efforts.

[insty66]

Agreed but most of those in jobs that don’t go away are well happy. It is quite easy to get an exchange to a Sqn if you try hard.
True to a point but it will still leave someone doing a less turbulent job

Not sure what you mean – have you done 4000 days away? No, what I meant was the top rate is roughly £26 per day, not enough as we both agree

Agreed again, but it is a whole lot easier than being a Liney or crew – if not policy makers and office jobbers would all be applying to get back on Sqns. These days how many guys in engine bays/ ASFs or neat little posts at Wyton are trying to get back.Not all I agree but those jobs do need doing and if everyone wanted to be on front line, someone would be "punished for doing the other jobs.

You know the attitude from those that don’t do the duties – not their problem and they don’t really care.Agreed but I bloody hate it we're not harsh enough in our SJAR I believe


However in conclusion would you agree that just because they are subject to the same rules as everybody else, the ones that don’t want a hard career job, the ones that are quite happy to sit in a bay somewhere, the ones that will fight a posting because their wife has a professional career (when other wives don’t) the ones that will use their kids as an excuse not to be posted when others go with the flow, should get the same money as the few that do abide by the rules.Which is why I've never thought the policy of minimum disruption a good one max tour of 5 years seems reasonable to me.

I will never forget the WO from Innsworth during a road show at RAF Bruggen:

Hypocritical ****.I was at Bruggen then too and met the said individual and you've summed him up well.


I take your point but as someone who hates pay 2001 I firmly believe that everyone of the same rank and trade should be paid the same, I despise the "in rank" increment and would have preferred to see an extension of the length of service increments that we used to have.

Back on track, the pay deal is better than I thought but I was disappointed by the small increase in x-factor I know the aggravating factors the Army suffer have increased by more than 1% in the past 5 or so years!

[Door Slider]

SRENNAPS

"The point that I was trying to make is that the majority of personnel in the RAF (and believe me there is an Air Force outside of the SH world) are still in sleepy 8-5 jobs and they have been there for many, many years. Why should they get the same benefits as those who are working their nuts off?"



I understand what you are trying to say, and to an extent I agree. I dont think the "majority" of people are in sleepy do nothing jobs, but yes there are a few. My issue is this, these jobs are essential to the RAF for stability. I dont want to spend 15 years on SH spending 4-6 months away continously, there has to be "fringe, support" jobs for people who NEED to get a breather and re-couperation. What annoys me are the people who "bedblock" these posts for many years for lame excuses when other people could be getting some valuable rest.

As said already, SH, AT, and many others are deserving of the X-factor increase, can you really not award the RAF the rise because of a people in sleepy hollow jobs, jobs thats still need to be done? Thats the beauty of LSA and Op Alloance, the people that deserve it, get it

[The Dodger]

This pay rise is not great, however it could have been worse. Alot of folks at my place of work got the pay scales and happiness ensued for a short while. That was until somebody got hold of the rest of the report. For all the crap we have gone through recently the report kind of pissed a few folks off, especially those who live in SFA. I don't really care anymore as i am out in just over a month. However it really annoys me to see the goverment spinning the pay rise to Joe public while on the other hand raising food and accomodation charges again to, more or less, cancel it out. What kind of message does that send to the masses in blue suits. :ugh:Gordon Brown, your a :mad:.

[Roland Pulfrew]

The point that I was trying to make is that the majority of personnel in the RAF are still in sleepy 8-5 jobs and they have been there for many, many years.

SRENNAPS

I am not convinced you are correct here. On recent visits to a couple of stations I have been stunned by the number of junior personnel who are now wearing campaign medals. These guys and gals are across all trades and branches, and many of the non-aircrew trades now have more "campaign time" than a lot of their aircrew colleagues (SH excluded). They may not have to go downtown and patrol the streets but they still get rocketed and mortared on base.

Why should they get the same benefits as those who are working their nuts off?

Because whilst there are those working their nuts off in sunnier climes, those that are in the Uk wil have to pick up the workload of those in sunnier climes and they will get their turn to go to sunnier climes as well. I think the days of never doing an OOA are over for the vast majority, if not all, of the branches and trades.

[Al R]

Is this an issue of divide and rule?

Hell, whatever happened to there being only ONE team? When I joined up, I knew damned well that I could expect to spend time away, and I consequently did - some years I was away for 6-9 months routinely. I whinged, but I didn't whinge at others. I knew what I had joined up to do.

Nowadays, we are so much more willing to shout out if we're hacked off with something. The fact is, the MoD is operating to economic constraints imposed by the g'ment, and there's nothing it can do about it. I sometimes wonder.. if the pay rise was 3.1%, would people still be bitching for 3.3%?

[Pure Pursuit]

SRENNAPS,

you obviously have tunnel vision within your SH world. :ugh:

I don't think you will find anyone outside of SH, who will knock what you guys are doing & the pace at which you are doing it however, you must bear in mind that the majority of the RAF is working hard (perhaps not as hard as you) in order to keep this train from derailling.

As Roland Pulfrew stated in his post, there are plenty of young airmen and airwomen wearing campaign medals doing different things & it very unfair of you to tar them all with the same brush. Some of the youngsters I work with have done 2-3 tours, some 6 months in duration, and they are all prepared to go out and do it again.

I for one am rather proud of some of the airmen I have working around me.

[White Noise]

X factor only for those who go away OOA gets my vote. wasn't too long ago when when i was sat on another regiment day when the rock asked if anyone hadn't done a OOA or Det. Imagine the faces when a wrinkly sqn ldr was one to put up his hand, and his respirator was 8 years out of date ! I could name a few who have wangled excuses or changed hospital appointments to get out of thier first OOA in 10 years or so...:ugh:

[insty66]

Is this an issue of divide and rule?

Judging by White Noises post most definitely!

Limited x factor goes against the grain in my book!

Whack LSA up to higher levels and a lot less hospital appointments will get changed.

Once you have done over ten years of your life (4001 days) served away from home, you get compensated with just over £26 per day, not even half good enough in my book.

[Vage Rot]

At this rate I'm going to have to get myself promoted again


Just seen a white elephant in formation with a large winged pig pass over my pad near ISK - must be your promotion arriving FATTER old son!!:)

[Shadwell the old]

Hey Vage Rot,

What is an A400M doing flying in formation with a Varsity in the North of Scotland at that time of night?

Shadwell

PS Hope you are keeping well

[LooseArticle]

I agree with AED 24 - there's plenty to whinge about and no pay rise is ever going to be good enough for some. If you're not happy in the round you should leave - after all, in many trades and branches that's what the RAF wants (so be careful what you wish for).

After you've left you could get pay rises like other public servants, ie, a lot worse than ours - pay rises of less than 2.5% on wages far lower than ours = peanuts.

Alternatively, you could get one of those high pressure city jobs where you earn loads and get big bonuses. Sadly, there aren't many of those about and next year, with the econmy in tatters like it is under this Labour lot, there may be no bonuses and no 'fat cats' left in this country.

So take your pick - and don't be afraid to make a decision. Either recognise the positives of a secure(ish) career that makes a positive contribution to the world, or leave and go and get your big pay rise somewhere else..............if you can find it.

[TheInquisitor]

The point that I was trying to make is that the majority of personnel in the RAF (and believe me there is an Air Force outside of the SH world) are still in sleepy 8-5 jobs and they have been there for many, many years.

Bollocks. You obviously aren't (or weren't) in the same RAF that I am. Those to whom you refer are very, very few and far between. As are those who are 'unfit' to deploy.

After you've left you could get pay rises like other public servants, ie, a lot worse than ours - pay rises of less than 2.5% on wages far lower than ours = peanuts.

...OR, you could get a REAL job, not on TFSW*'s payroll, but in the wider Private Sector, where demands (and settlements) are beginning to be based on the more realistic RPI rate of inflation.

*TFSW=Tight Fisted Scottish W****r, a term redefined by the Brown/Browne administration...

[LooseArticle]

OR, you could get a REAL job, not on TFSW*'s payroll, but in the wider Private Sector, where demands (and settlements) are beginning to be based on the more realistic RPI rate of inflation.


TheInquisitor - as I said:

Alternatively, you could get one of those high pressure city jobs where you earn loads and get big bonuses. Sadly, there aren't many of those about and next year, with the econmy in tatters like it is under this Labour lot, there may be no bonuses and no 'fat cats' left in this country.

Also TheInquisitor, if you are in the RAF as you suggest, and you don't think you are doing a 'REAL job', then you really should leave and find something else to do.

[blogger]

Today from the BBC

UK unemployment fell by 61,000 to 1.61 million in the three months to the end of December, government figures show.

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) also said the number of people claiming jobseeker's allowance in January fell by 10,800 to 794,600.
Average earnings rose at an annual rate of 3.8% in December, down slightly. The figures come amid signs that the UK economy is slowing down, and after the Bank of England recently cut its main interest rate to 5.25% from 5.5%.

So the RAF gets 2.6 %.............HAR HAR HAR...........

glad I put that PVR in.

[mutleyfour]

Blogger

glad I put that PVR in.

So am I.


Glad you put that PVR in. :}

[teeteringhead]

ScufferEngHHmmmm... now let me see, most of the AFPRB are made up from retired Cols , and a few legal type buddies etc,

.....I don't think so ..... current AFPRB is:

Professor David Greenaway (Chairman)
Robert Burgin
Alison Gallico
Dr Peter Knight CBE
Professor Derek Leslie
Air Vice Marshal (Retired) Ian Stewart CB
Dr Anne Wright CBE

.... not toooo many retired colonels there, just one Harrier mate ......;)

[TheInquisitor]

Also TheInquisitor, if you are in the RAF as you suggest, and you don't think you are doing a 'REAL job', then you really should leave and find something else to do.

I'm doing a very real job, thank you...and have spent more time away than at home over the past 4 years or so.

I was referring to the huge swathe of public sector 'non-jobs' that suck the money out of the treasury nowadays...."5-a-day coordinator", anybody?