EU Citizenship for Captains

[TooFast]

I have recently discovered that to be a Captain in air transport in a certain EU country, you need to be first an EU citizen.

Could you check if in your EU country ( where you live or work right now)there is any restriction?

Can a legal resident with working rights in your country work as Captain, regardless of EU citizenship?

Please take a look and let us all know.

[redsnail]

Not required to be an EU citizen in the UK to hold command.

[speed787]

But to work for an airline base in the EU, you will need the be an EU citizen dont you?

[Human Factor]

You need to have the right to work in the EU which usually means you have to be an EU citizen.

[kriskross]

Or married to one.

[speed787]

interesting, so if u married to an EU citizen then you can join an EU airline??

[TheSwede]

Married or not you will need to have the right to work in the EU and travel worldwide.

If you are Icelandic, Swiss or Norwegian there will be little problems with regards to your nationality. If your passport is from a poor African state, where you need visas for most countrys, you will have a problem.

[TooFast]

Thank you for your replies.

It is clear that to work as Captain, F/O or any other position you need to have the right

to work in the country.

That does not mean at all that you have to be a citizen of the EU. But you need to be legally authorized at least to work. Like in any other job.

The question was if, in order to be a specifically a Commander in any EU country, you had to be first a citizen of any EU member country.

It was clearly answered for the UK case. No need to be .

Spain has a restriction, and it used to be worse: you had to be a Spanish citizen to be a Commander. The law was from 1960. Otherwise, no captaincy.

That changed in 1999, but it seems to be still restricted only to EU citizens.

Legal residents, with right to work, no matter what qualifications and experience they may hold, don´t seem to be as good as EU citizens for the Spanish law.

Any other cases that you may know of?

[Denti]

No restriction like that in germany. Just need the usual right to live and work in the EU.

[stator vane]

the company can and often will arrange the work permit if they simply wish to. the right person in the office has to want you to work there.

i had that in belgium for 4 years until Sabena went out of business-US FAA ATP and passport--allowed to work in belgium and licence was re-validated each six months after the sim check-

and once had an Irish work permit through Virgin Express Ireland but never used it. still have a copy of that.

the UK JAA licence people didn't give a hoot about my citizenship which was US when i got the ATP with 737 type. then i did get a right to live and work in UK based on marriage, but that was the last thing to actually happen in the chain of events. now have the british passport.

licencing doesn't care about citizenship--unless there was a recent change. all they really want is your money and if you have it, they will take it and give you the licence.

[calypso]

The reason for the Spanish restriction is that as an Airline Captain you have a level of authority (in law and obviously while in command of an aircraft) similar to a policeman. The state only granted such powers to Spanish nationals (I beleive that is still the case for the police in many contries). The law was changed under pressure from the EU.

[TooFast]

I don´t agree with you.

Try to apply that "policemen power " theory to the thousands of legal residents in many many countries that are Captains, without being citizens of any particular country.


Spanish law extended that initial national restriction, (under pressure form other countries), to EU citizens...obviously because these citizens seem to be very good policemen, of course.

Besides being pilots, they were very well trained to protect banks, stop murders, investigate kidnapings, and enforce all kinds of laws.

Do you truly believe in your theory? I don´t think so..

Come on! This is pure and simple jurassic labor protection fences. That´s all.

[speed787]

I am currently planning to join the Oxford Aviation Academy to obtain my f-ATPL, in order to join BA's Self sponsored pilot scheme,

After checking the BA's site

Pilots

Eligibility Checklist
Residency

Passport allowing unrestricted worldwide travel
Entitled to live and work in the EU without time restrictioni dont hold an EU passport, Will i still be able to join BA's SSP? If yes, Will other candidates who has an EU passport has an advatage?

Thanks for your advise!

[Denti]

From that i can only read that you need some passport, not necessarily an EU one, that allows unrestricted worldwide travel and you need (thats a separate issue) the right to live and work within in the EU, which is a given for all EU citizens with a few exceptions for the newly joined EU countries.

Therefore an EU passport of course makes it easy to show that you fullfill both requirements, but there may well be other passports that can do the same.

[cavok_italy]

In Italy you don't need to hold an Italian passport to work. Anyway, too many countries worldwide apply very strict rules to immigrated pilots. And much more strict than here in EU. I think also us European we have to protect our market.

[Rumble]

You don't necessarily need to be an EU citizen to live & work in the EU. We have plenty of Australian captains in the UK who can work here (maybe not all over the EU) being part of the commonwealth.
Much harder for us to go and work there however.

Mind you that is the same with France & Spain as well. Plenty of them here but almost impossible for us to work there (except maybe for a British company)

[non iron]

The ability to speak, write and read english in europe may help of course for a potential airman.

But who knows what happens next ?

[calypso]

Too Fast,

is not a question of agreeing. The legal system in Spain is fundamentaly different to the legal system in anglosaxon countries. There are many legal principles that do not translate easily between the two systems. Airline captains clearly do not chase criminals however their instructions must be followed by law. The Spanish legal system did not contemplate giving such power to non nationals in the same way that you must be a spanish national to be a policeman, judge, MP, army officer, etc. If this principle does not apply in your country then great, that is what makes the world an interesting place we are all different. A little cultural perspective might not go amiss. Your system isn't always the only system nor the best system. This law came from well before airplanes and there is a certain logic to it if you care to look for it.

[jousteagle]

I emailed NJE about the EU passport requirement. I have the right to live and work in EU (via marriage) but no passport. They indicated that an EU passport is required (like their website indicates). My guess is that it has to do with their travel in and out of the EU. Not sure though.

[speed787]

can someone tell me BA's requirements? I tried to email them, the only reply i got back is that- that won't be able to give perosonal career's advice! :\

I think non EU-passport holders will be able to work in the EU as long as the company gives u a work VISA, which allows you the right to live and work within the EU?? am i right?

[Victor Mike]

As per the web site, you will need to have the right to work in the EU before you join the airline, BA won't sort out work permits etc. You do not need to be an EU citizen, we have a variety of Canadians, Australians, Swiss etc. As long as you meet the criteria it makes no difference to the selection process, though with a lot of the selection process being in English it clearly helps if you have a very good grasp of it.
Good Luck!

[FMC OVERHEAT]

Is there a chance to join Ryanair as a non-EU B737 rated captain? Will they sponsor the work permit for UK only?
It seems hard and hard to join as an F/O.

[TooFast]

Calypso, thank you again for your answer.

But I can´t agree with you.

I simply can´t find any GOOD reason to restrict the seat of the Captain to Spanish citizens
(first, from 1960 until 1999) , and from then on to EU Nationals.

There is no way to justify that. And the "on board police authority" theory is completely inconsistent, insufficient and non pertinent to my view.

That different countries and legal systems come in different colours and flavors is nothing new. But that doesn´t explain anything. I respect the law, but I think it only serves job protection purposes, nothing else.

Take the example of the US, UK, even Japan, and most of the countries on earth.

ANY citizenship is good for the state authorities for the ROLE OF A CAPTAIN, provided he/she has the right to work in that country, and has the skills and knowledge, of course.

There is no complex law enforcement, there is no justice administration, there is no national security issue involved.

So what it´s left then? Labor protection. Spain started with that, and was forced to open it a little in 1999.

But take the example of this very possible case: the wife or husband of a SPANISH citizen has the right to live and work in any EU country, including Spain. As a legal resident. No matter what citizenship he/she holds.

They can live together, of course with their children. And consequently , he or she has the right to be F/O and Captain as well, but only in the other EU countries outside Spain.


So..he/she can´t be a Captain in Spain. The homeland of his couple and children. In their own land, their father /mother is limited to be a F/O.

Absurd, isn´t it?

[chin]

@tooFast

Job-Protection?
Try to get a Job on a big Carrier in the USA with either a Saudi-Arabien-, Iranien- or Afganistan-ATPL. I think it doesnt even matter if its a FAA or a JAA-License;)