To start for a pilot at 36? does it make sense?

[raj_iq]

Hi folks,

A sincere advise needed. Had always dreamt of being a pilot. but opted for masters and a career.

Right now own my business's. Earning a nice income etc etc. but someone told me last week that even at 35 now u can train urself for US 35000 and getting a job is easy. specially in india where the airline industry will grow.

After doing some surfing and reading this forum ive become highly doubtfull of this "easiily getting a job".

so pls do shed some light what can be expected. is it still possible for someone to get a job at35/36 without exp? Ofcourse the pay is not what matters as i will be doing it for the love of flying rather then money.

Its a huge decision as im planning to sell down a business of mine and go after my dream so on crossroads if i shud do that.

thanks in advance

Raj

[dartagnan]

but someone told me last week that even at 35 now u can train urself for US 35000 and getting a job is easy. specially in india where the airline industry will grow.

ah, ah, if it was so easy, you wouldn't be here asking this question.
it 's not easy, it is damn hard!!!and time go against you.

at 35, I wouldn't do it. this industry is crazy!

[ramshorn]

Hi
Check out this thread and this should give you all the information, pros and cons to be able to come to the right decision for you.
Good luck
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51690&highlight=oldies

[Bambe]

If money is not a problem for you, then ... of course go for it, but your friend told you nonsenses as you'd better expect to spend 100 000 euros (minimum!!) and you won't have a guaranteed job.

But it's not too late, you just live once man, so if it's your dream you'll do it.

Good luck,
enjoy

[Lembrado]

No doubt about it - getting a job after training is very very easy! I know of nobody who found it difficult to find a good airline job straight away.

As for being 36, if you start your training now, by this time next year you should be flying a small airliner like a B737/B757/A320.

L.

[greekboy]

LEMBRADO

I hope ur being sarcastic cos if your're not then ur talking absolute :mad:.

raj iq

i'm 35 and almost finished with my atpl theory. i too spent at least 6 months researching, talking to pilots and surfing the net including this forum. its a difficult decision as i'm also earning a very good income which i will NEVER earn as a profesional pilot(even at training captain level), but its not always about the money. get a ppl and if you enjoy flying and are willing to give up a few luxuries and fly almost anything after you're qualified then you have a chance of an airline job.

go modular and save loads of money and qualify dept free. then you can focus on applying for work and getting ur cv up to scratch etc instead of worrying if the bank is going to re-posses your home.

ignore any school that tells you that a job is secure after you qualify:=
there are many pilots out there with huge dept and no jobs, even instuctors with 1000 hours plus.

last but not least do a search as there are many threads on the topic of age etc. dont forget we both are fortunate to have degrees with well paid jobs and have LESS TO LOSE than some of the other wannabees if the industry suffers a severe/catastrophic downturn before we qualify/get a flying job.

go for it:ok:

good luck

gb

[Bearing 123]

I agree with all of the above............ apart from Lembrado, who hopefully is taking the p:mad:.

There are two ways to look at this.
1. If you love flying, and if you can afford it, just enjoy your current lifestyle and fly privately for your own enjoyment. You could end up with a nice twin etc and fly yourself around for business or pleasure and you would always be the boss of flying, while keeping your business.

2. Go for it!!!! IMHO you are never too old. You might not end up on an airliner, but with enough determination and perserverence you will end up flying something for a living. (However small that living might be)

The airlines are very different from the biz jet world where having a more mature look is in most cases an advantage, due to the close interaction with the passengers. Now that the retirement age is being pushed to 65, you will still have a good few years to make an impact. However, the corporate world will generally look for a lot of experience to put you in the RHS so it can be swings and roundabouts.

Finally, and sorry to end on a downer, but the industry is expecting a downturn, what with this forecast recession etc, so it is probably not a great time to be a newbie. But if its your dream, don't let anybody stop you

Best of Luck :ok:

[Insane]

Don't let fear stand in the way of your dreams!!!

How ever.....Have a side line vocation that should be used in an emergency. A pilot should never get into a situation where he is totally dependent on the income from flying....especially at the ages that we are talking about as it is tough in the beginning!!!

Any issue that can cause you to stop earning a salary off flying will put you on the back foot and you will need to have an income to keep the wheels of life turning...especially if you are a family man. I started at 43 with wife and 3kids in tow, I now have have a good job flying and a side line that is my back up and pension booster!! (3yrs later) and loving it!!!:ok:

[BottyTotty]

Raj - Insane makes a good point. It all depends on you. I know someone who started training at 52 and got a job.

Do not having any delusions of grandeur,it is a hard and demanding job and nothing like the holywood film image of glamour and glitz.

That said, it you like flying and apply the same level of commitment as you did in your previous education and keep pushing doors.

You will likely get there in the end, Timing and Airline contacts are the key. If you know a pilot who can put you're CV in front of HR, you're almost there.

[WMB]

If you are going to start training at 36, go Intergrated, if you go modular then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. The competition is young and sharp, and they are all comming from intergrated courses. If you go modular, as i did to save money, you should do it only with one school. Airlines want continuity in training, and high standards so they can have a known quantity when they take them on as a first officer. Also remember that your ATPL exam marks count with a lot of airlines, so distance learning might be cheaper, but the full time course will give you better pass marks in the end. Finally the intergrated guys often get a recomendation from their flight school, which opens a lot of doors. Whatever you decide to do, i wish you all the best of luck, just don't give up!!:ok:

[CABUS]

I am afraid to say I also think going Integrated is the way forward at an older age, even though I was a modular student. A school such as Oxford I would reccommend probably above all others as they have excellent connections and great training. I would go for it buddy, either way with enough dedication you should get a job I find from experience its the extremly pro active and positive people that seem to get the jobs soonest. I would also reccommend writing to airlines in advance of training letting them know your position and show how keen you are asking them for advice and to keep your details on file and keep updating them. This worked for me giving me a few leads into the industry, best of luck and go for it buddy!:ok:

[Lembrado]

Oh, I forgot to mention:

It is axiomatic that integrated students are better than modular students.

Integrated students are also somewhat immune to any downturn in the pilot market, due in part (read my first statement) and the fact that these schools will not rest until they have placed you with an airline.

So I think £80,000 represents good value - and don't worry about the large monthly repayments, the most important thing is to progress quickly.


L.

[scooby79]

Strange that you say it is easy to get a job as you seem to have a fair bit of time of which some is in a 757 but have had at least three interviews in the past few years. Are you finding it hard to get a good job?

[gibr monkey]

Basically nothing is certain in this world, especially with the world as it is at the moment. Avaition world is some what different to the rest of the world of work. Some good, some bad. I didn't beleive it myself untill I was redundant just like that from an airline.... however bond free with a type rating on my licence.
Its a hard road ahead and there were FO in my previous company who started later and were taken on in the early 40's. This i would say is rare. But what you need is lUck to get a job from a modular course background and you make your own luck. That means talking to everyone and taking any thing. I have been unemployed for a month and still airlines are messing about with start dates which when you are paying a mortgage and with kids , its not nice.

A lot of people fall by the way side I think half my ATPL students didn't finish to get their MEIR and bascially there has to be a desire to keep going and also a back up plan when its not going your way at that time. It took me from PPL to 1st commercial job 4 years.

Aviation actually is a small place and hence knowing somebody to get a job is where its at. Be it Oxford or a friend of a friend.
Hey if you become a part time instuctor then you are getting paid to fly and that's what its all about surely. That 747 job may never come... but it could.

[Bearing 123]

Very well said GIBR.

There are jobs out there that don't have Boeing or Airbus in the title that are fantastic.

Unfortunately too many people get fixated on this so called airline career. The fact of the matter is that most people go into this to fly and get paid. It doesn't get any better than that.
I fly in the corporate sector I know from personal experience, that I would rather be a chauffeur then a bus driver any day, but that is my personal preference. Grab anything that's on offer job wise and then have a look at your options. It's a lot easier choosing what you want to do whilst flying, earning and gaining experience.

Get a Class 1 Medical, Get your PPL, Build your hours, Sit and pass your ATPL writtens and then take a step back. The above should use up a good 12 months, take a minimum of investment and who knows where we'll be then, market wise. It will enable you to get a feel for the industry, get to know like minded people and make a more informed decision before investing the really big money on a CPL/MEIR/MCC.

Also just one last point, don't spend time agonizing over Integrated or Modular. There is no difference apart from financially. Yes there are those who at 20 went integrated and ended up getting jobs with <200 hrs, but there are also Modular people who did the same. At your age, you will come out at the end with exactly the same licence as everybody else. From there its all about experience and personality and a huge chunk of luck.

Just my thoughts.

Good luck mate:ok:

[BottyTotty]

Also just one last point, don't spend time agonizing over Integrated or Modular. There is no difference apart from financially.

Not true, there is a difference. You get the same licence for sure, but at age 36 Integrated will give a structured lesson plan and instructors every day teaching which forces you to work. Modular has elements of home study, and its the structure of Ingrated that many airlines like.
When you leave with your fATPL, it may not make some difference with a few of the lucky ones, who are in the right place right time, but in the main and for the majority if you are applying to x Airline with no contacts of your own, an Integrated course at one of the big schools will greatly increase your chance over a smaller school or modular applicant. And because of your age, I would suggest it shoud be the only way you should go, unless you were after a GA flight instructor job.

BA application recruitment question,

"Have you trained at a CAP xxx approved school and completed an Integrated training course.... Yes/No"

Good Luck

[outside_loop]

It is axiomatic that integrated students are better than modular students.

:yuk: people will tell you this type of stuff to make themselves feel better about pawning granny's wedding ring to pay OAT for the course. But its obviously bollocks. you cant buy intelligence or flying aptitude - thats a simple fact

Integrated students are also somewhat immune to any downturn in the pilot market

I think thats unproven at the moment, but everyones about to find out!

the fact that these schools will not rest until they have placed you with an airline

hahahaha no comment required!! i could find you several integrated students who would beg to differ!!!

whatever you decide, i wish you the best of luck.:)

[Desk-pilot]

For what it's worth I do think integrated is the way to go if you are older. To be honest after graduating from OATS (Integrated) at 36 I didn't get invited even to a first interview by any of the multitude of airlines I applied to, but when OATS put me forward to two airlines I was offered interviews with both and happily am now working for one of those.

I wish you luck - it's a tough decision and a long hard road, but sipping coffee at 25000 feet today watching the sunset it felt like the best decision and worth all the effort and sacrifice. Would I choose to go back to my previous IT management career with its salary of more than double my F/O wage? - Not bloody likely!!

Good luck to all of you,

Desk-pilot

PS for younger guys I think it's probably less of an issue.

[Brainstorm]

I started flying quite young, but stopped flying for quite a few years after 9/11 and did the sensible thing i.e. went back to my secure desk job that pays at least twice as much as being a pilot.

Realizing that I had never flown anything else than piston aircraft was starting to get me down, so I went back into flying later in life (basically had to start all over again) and went through a very tough time getting a job, and finally got hired by a proper airline. I won't even begin to tell you about the amount effort I had to put into getting hired, but then I guess everyone in this business has their story.

Do I have any regrets? None whatsoever. I wanted to fly jets since I was a wee kid. It was a matter of meeting a lifelong goal, and you can't substitute something like that with a big paycheck. :)

[PigBoy]

Hi,

I didnt learn to fly until I was 38. 9/11 happend just as I finished my ATPL exams. After my CPL/IR, I worked in a warehouse until I could afford an Instructors rating. After 18 months instructing and about 1000 hrs, I got a job flying a turboprop and now after 2 1/2 years at age 45 I have just been offered a job flying a 757. Incidently, I went modular because it was cheaper and schools like Oxford were quite rude about me starting at age 38.

Age makes it more difficult but the only barriers to a career are the ones you put up yourself.

All the above posts give good advice; if you can afford to live and pay for your training and be prepared for a hard slog then go for it - you can always go back to your old career if it doesnt work out but you cant turn the clock back in five years and say I wish I'd had a go at flying.

Very best luck

PB

[Brainstorm]

A mate of mine has just been offered his first proper airline job, at age 50!

It gets harder to get hired with age, but apparently it is possible.

[sahni]

@RAJ

I'm also well in the 30s, and I did quit my well payed job to make my dream reality. Have chosen an integrated course and I think it is quite good to have a daily class with the pressure from the instructor. On the other hand I need to deal with a crowd of younger folks (some just turned 18), but this keeps my brain competing :8

I found many of the replies honest and helpful. Let's go ahead ..no worries about the (our) age :ok:

[boogie-nicey]

There are many on this forum that have been dragged through the mud in order to achieve the covetted position of that airline career or in fact any flight deck career. However as Brainstorm has previously mentioned there's a story to tell but why hold back. We all know that especially within aviation we learn alot from each other's experiences. The job hunt is perhaps no different and after all don't we all enjoy a good type rating diary or "my first 50 hours", "diary of an IR student", etc..... Come on chaps and chapesses :O spill the beans. The flight training syllabus is preset and we all follow the same path but like any scheme of graduation within society "where do they go", "what happened to them", this would be an equally interesting story.

To learn from the mistakes or oversights of others is compelling to say the least. It's certainly not a competition between who made the most sacrifices or just 'walked it' as we all have different circumstances. Nevertheless it would be great to hear in a supportive and mutually respectful way of how wannabes got a foot onto the ladder.

As always good luck to all and keep up that smile and spirit! :ok:

[tonker]

Got my first job flying 737-300's at 36. Guy behind me on my ATPL groundschool was in early 50's and a retired coal miner. He now flies 757 freight.

It's your gamble and the odd's are yourself.

[simmiy]

I still am not clear as to why an airline would not want to hire someone who is starting out in their 40s. Which option is more logical when hiring for a first officer: a 21 year old hotshot high on testosterone, or a more mature calm 40 year old person. If you were a cab company hiring cabbies I would think that you would prefer older people than someone in their 20s. If a 40 year old has the same qualification, flight hours and license as a 20 year old, then why the discrimination. I am sure that Airlines have some reasons to avoid older candidates who are starting out, but I cant figure out what they may be.

[Brainstorm]

There is actually a significant advantage to starting this career when slightly older: you probably have some former education or career to fall back on if needed.

As we all know, aviation is not always the most stable place to be, and I am very happy to know that I won't have to sell my house if my airline goes bust, or if I can't fly for some reason. I think the way it (accidentally) worked out was quite good, because now I have options.

Although we sometimes forget it in these forums, there is more to life than just flying airplanes!

[dougy24]

Hi,

I decided on a career change at 45 !! although I had previously done some flying in the Army Air Corps, although that was 20 odd years ago!!

So I took redundancy from a well know corporate telecomms company and embarked on doing my ATPL's... and starting a business to help fund it all.

(I had been flying as a PPL for 2 years) and yes I found it tough going, its harder to learn the older you get, but got through those and then went and did CPL/IR and MCC etc, got first time passes, and being very lucky and jammy got a job after 3 months, flying as a single Pilot IFR doing Aerial survey work (had also been offered an interview with Ryanair)..didnt go though!!

However I did not enjoy the work, as it wasnt type of flying that I wanted to do really. So I am now about to embark on a type rating for the ATR (have to be realistic about my age...now 48!!) and think I will stand more chance on Turbo props than big shiny jets!!...but as they say nothing is guaranteed, but yes I firmly believe that if you want something bad enough then go get it and dont give up!!.. I have had hundreds of no thanks letters etc...but will still keep trying as I believe I have still got something to offer?.

So go for it...will be hard but worth it it if you want it that badly...good luck.

Dougy

[almasm]

Wow, i am so glad i found this thread.
At 33 this year, self employed etc similar to Raj, i've read all this with great interest.
I understand that if i start this year with my ATPL, then cpl and MEIR i may finish training inside of 2 years.
My main question would be is it most difficult to find jobs in the london area? and i'll do anything, props, cargo, air taxi anything!!!

Advice to Raj would be, if you can keep your business then do! and train and earn! if your family support you then do it all the more!

[Knee Trembler]

I know plenty of people who have come into the industry at 35+. For a lot of people it takes that long to get the cash together to make the move in the first place.

How you adapt will depend on your personality. I think a lot of employers will appreciate the maturity that (relatively) older people bring to the cockpit - it's certainly the case that often the colleagues who moan loudest are the ones who started early, have known nothing else and are bored and burnt out before they are out of their 30s.

On the downside, be ready to bite your tongue. Once you get your first job you will be judged by the uniform you wear and this will, inevitably have as few as two stripes for a while. Some people cope better than others. My advice, get used to the fact that you are essentially invisible until you get a command or at least have been in your company for a few years. If you can accept this you will earn heaps of money in return for just turning up to work!

It's also worth mentioning that you may find that, depending where you get your first job, you could be flying with a much younger captain. Even if you behave impeccably, there are a few out there who will have a problem with this. I flew right seat until I was 40 (a slow learner I'm afraid!) and have had a couple of less than pleasant days at work with younger guys (and girls) - although that's a few days out of hundreds.

Don't let any of this put you off though, just go into it with your eyes open and you'll be fine.

Good luck.

KT

[no sponsor]

Lifestyle
Lifestyle
Lifestyle

Are the three most important things to remember about this career.

For a 19 year-old out of school the money is fantastic, probably unbeatable in any other career. For someone if their 30's, the money is not good if you have a home, family and other overheads.

You drop down all those career rungs you've climbed in your previous profession. It's a bit of a shock, and Knee Trembler has it spot on. You may have managed budgets of $100m previously, and ran a department of 500 people, but you've only got two stripes, so you don't know anything in the eyes of management. I have to bite my tongue quite a bit, but you get used to it; but it is very frustrating.

More than likely, you will have to move for a job, or as most do, commute and flat-share/B&B. It takes it toll, and not only from a financial point of view. Getting a job near where you live becomes very important, as are the number of days off in a row and the amount of times you are subject to minimum rest. If your airline get these wrong, or doesn't care about them, then being an airline pilot is a miserable way to earn a living. As you get older, you care about these things much more.

The lifestyle you lead is over-riding to the equipment you fly, IMHO.

[jamestkirk]

I should have stuck to stripping, cos the money was better.

Anyway, people are not into speedo's anymore so the career opportunities are limited. I feel a little teary every time i pass some kind of metal pole

Flying and stripping, two of the hardest professions to find work in.